new ad from georgewbush.com - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

boatin · 06-29-2004, 04:31 PM

http://slate.msn.com/id/2103033/

And we achieve a new low: "Look how dirty the other guy is!! Here, we'll show you. Well, we'll show you a bunch of dirt, anyway, and try our best to tie it to the other guy."

I have been glad that the Kerry campaign has been running the 'optimist' commercials. The are old, tired and basicly crap, but at least they aren't negative/dirty. As one that lives in a battleground state, I'm tired of political commercials already. And I watch only 2 hours of TV a week.

My question: why in the world do dirty ads get made? They make me want to vote against the team running the ad. Sick sick sick.

Second question: how does an ad this dishonest get made? It's unreal to me.

edit: click on the top link for links to the bush site and moveon.com links.

Quote:

Der Furor
Bush plays the Nazi card.
By William Saletan and Jacob Weisberg
Posted Monday, June 28, 2004, at 4:13 PM PT

Where to begin with this despicable video?

Six months ago, MoveOn.org held a contest to find the best amateur ad against President Bush. The group invited people to make ads and submit them to its Web site. Some idiot spliced images of Bush together with images of Adolf Hitler, evidently trying to make Bush look like a warmonger. His submissions, which arrived with 1,500 others—too many to be screened quickly—were posted on the contest Web site. As soon as MoveOn.org leaders realized what was in the ad, they removed and denounced it.

The Bush campaign, outraged by the mixture of Nazi images with images of an American politician, has decided that the best response to this offense is to repeat it.

The Bush video's opening white-on-black graphic says, "The Faces of John Kerry's Democratic Party. The Coalition of the Wild-eyed." Next comes a parade of angry speakers: Al Gore, Hitler, Howard Dean, Michael Moore, Dick Gephardt, Hitler, Gore, and Kerry.

Is Bush suggesting that Hitler fits in with this group? Don't be silly, Jake. Bush's aides insist they're just showing the Hitler footage so you can see the filth Democrats are putting out. But we already know how Bush's GOP presents images from Democratic ads when it wants to discredit them. In 2000, Republican National Committee ads repeatedly depicted Al Gore's commercials running on a small television screen in a kitchen. The RNC ads didn't show the Gore ads at full size on your screen because the RNC didn't want the images in the Gore ads to be taken at face value.

This time, the Bush campaign shows the Hitler images at full size, in an unexplained sequence with Gore, Dean, Gephardt, and Kerry. Draw your own conclusions.

How does the Bush camp identify the Hitler footage? "Sponsored by Moveon.Org" says a label on the first Hitler clip, evidently put there by the miscreants who submitted the ad. "Images from Moveon.Org ad" says the Bush campaign's label on the second Hitler clip. The only organization that doesn't identify the clips as a "Moveon.org ad" is MoveOn.org, which denounced the ad and never "sponsored" it. But never mind. Instead of apologizing for this implicit misrepresentation of sponsorship, the Bush campaign has made the misrepresentation explicit. "The following video contains remarks made by and images from ads sponsored by Kerry Supporters," says a graphic appended to the beginning of the video.

The Bush campaign's claim that the amateur Hitler ads represent "John Kerry's Democratic Party" is laughable. Kerry didn't control MoveOn.org, and MoveOn.org didn't make the ads. When the ads were submitted, the membership of MoveOn.org largely supported Dean, the candidate who had nearly wiped Kerry off the map. Kerry had just mortgaged his house to get the cash Democrats were refusing to give him. The suggestion that he controlled the party is preposterous—but only slightly more preposterous than the suggestion that Kerry is responsible what Dean and Gephardt said while running against him, or what Gore and Moore said while supporting candidates who were running against him. Not to mention that the question Gore poses in the ad—"How dare they drag the good name of the United States of America through the mud of Saddam Hussein's torture prison?"—is well warranted.

The only clip that can fairly be attributed to Kerry appears at the end, when the senator is shown telling an audience, "George Bush will lay off your camel, tax your shovel, kick your (bleep) and tell you there is no Promised Land." This is the punch line of a joke Kerry used to tell on the trail. The joke, now thankfully defunct, is too long and unfunny to bear repeating. What's worth noting is that Bush-Cheney '04 thinks this clip shows a man too angry and foul-mouthed to sit in the White House. This from a president who delivered the seven-letter version of Kerry's A-word in his last campaign, and a vice president who boasted Friday that he "felt better" after delivering the F-word to a Democrat on the Senate floor. Politician, go heal thyself.

nanofever · 06-29-2004, 04:40 PM

Honestly, I wouldn't expect any less of the adminstration we have seen in the last six months. This just seems to add to that wet dream I have, where Cheney, Bush, Ashcroft, Wolfiwitz, Rumsfeld and Rice are all sent to jail for high crimes and mis-demeanors.

tecoyah · 06-29-2004, 04:45 PM

Pathetic.

pan6467 · 06-29-2004, 05:12 PM

I see so the ONE who should be compared to Hitler complained and cried and got an ad taken off and then turns around and uses a Hitler comparison on the other guy.

And when someone on a message board brings Hitler's name in with Bush, there's freaking Hell to pay, but again the hypocrits on the right say it is ok for their great leader to do it to the left.

Doesn't surprise me Bush will stop at nothing to win. And what's sad is HE IS FUCKING DESTROYING THE COUNTRY BY HIS DIVISION OF THE PEOPLE AND PLAYING PARTISAN POLITICS WITH NO MORALS AND NO SCRUPLES. A VOTE FOR BUSH IS A VOTE TO APPROVE THESE KINDS OF ADS.

Sorry lost it there. I hate Bush, the only thing I like about him is his stance on space exploration, but even that was probably for personal reasons, like Haliburton being a major NASA supplier.

wonderwench · 06-29-2004, 05:21 PM

Gee whiz. All the Bushies did was to take a cue from Michael Moore and engage in a bit of clever splicing and editing. All of the clips are true and sourced from the Dems themselves.

nanofever · 06-29-2004, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wonderwench
Gee whiz. All the Bushies did was to take a cue from Michael Moore and engage in a bit of clever splicing and editing. All of the clips are true and sourced from the Dems themselves.

Would you vote for Michael Moore?

wonderwench · 06-29-2004, 05:46 PM

No, Michael Moore's ideology and politics sicken me. But if Kerry is going to allow Michael Moore on stage at official DNC fundraisers, then he is inviting a similar response from the GOP.

There is a simple solution for Kerry, he could denounce the lies. He won't; but that is his choice.

Kadath · 06-29-2004, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wonderwench
There is a simple solution for Kerry, he could denounce the lies. He won't; but that is his choice.

Spending his time arguing with PACs wouldn't take him too far off message or anything. Christ, he doesn't even have a message! He needs that time to settle on one!

cthulu23 · 06-29-2004, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wonderwench
No, Michael Moore's ideology and politics sicken me. But if Kerry is going to allow Michael Moore on stage at official DNC fundraisers, then he is inviting a similar response from the GOP.

There is a simple solution for Kerry, he could denounce the lies. He won't; but that is his choice.

Just as Bush must denonce the half-truths that Limbaugh, Hanitty, Coulter, etc, etc, etc, spew daily? Let's not pretend that heavily partisan media figures are a liberal phenomena. I fail to see what is so outrageous about Michael Moore. He's ten times more credible than Mike Savage.

nanofever · 06-29-2004, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wonderwench
No, Michael Moore's ideology and politics sicken me. But if Kerry is going to allow Michael Moore on stage at official DNC fundraisers, then he is inviting a similar response from the GOP.

There is a simple solution for Kerry, he could denounce the lies. He won't; but that is his choice.

Okay, I'm confused.

You said "All the Bushies did was to take a cue from Michael Moore and engage in a bit of clever splicing and editing..."

And

You also said "...he could denounce the lies."

So, MM is infact a clever editor and a liar. You seem to be fine with the method MM uses, just not the politics that acompany the method. You also seem to be a hypocrite for condoning Bush's actions and condemning MM's.

wonderwench · 06-29-2004, 06:02 PM

I am just observing that MM uses clever editing to create a misimpression. He also has several lies in his film.

The Bushies have emulated the clever editing. None of the clips were manufactured by them.

pan6467 · 06-29-2004, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wonderwench
Gee whiz. All the Bushies did was to take a cue from Michael Moore and engage in a bit of clever splicing and editing. All of the clips are true and sourced from the Dems themselves.

And all these other MM threads, WHAT THE FUCK DO THESE HAVE TO DO WITH DUBYA ASSOCIATING KERRY TO HITLER????

Come on now, people MM and Limbaugh are one and the same and they are both out to sell and make money. That's it.

We have a president comparing his opponent to Hitler (after he cried when an idependant website did it to him) and all you fucking want to do is bitch about MM?

No wonder the fucking nation is going downhill people just don't give a damn about how bad partisan politics have gotten.

Hell fuck the terrorists why don't we just fucking take arms and kill one another and get it fucking over with. Just fucking kill anyone who doesn't agree with whichever side you choose. Fuck justice, fuck the center, fuck getting along, fuck trying to compromise, fuck just kill all who disagree.

Sorry about all the "fucks", but the point to the thread was Bush associating Kerry to Hitler after he himself cried foul and people want to turn this into a MM vs. Limbaugh and who is better and who is more truthful and blah blah blah.

My feeling is anyone who takes either too seriously is in need of a reality check.

wonderwench · 06-29-2004, 06:14 PM

No, we have a president showing clips of the opposition party comparing him to Hitler.

nanofever · 06-29-2004, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wonderwench
I am just observing that MM uses clever editing to create a misimpression. He also has several lies in his film.

The Bushies have emulated the clever editing. None of the clips were manufactured by them.

That sounds a lot like Orwellian Doublespeak.

pan6467 · 06-29-2004, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wonderwench
No, we have a president showing clips of the opposition party comparing him to Hitler.

THINK YOU NEED TO RE-READ THE ARTICLE.

wonderwench · 06-29-2004, 06:20 PM

If you choose to interpret it that way, so be it.

Each and every one of the clips in the Bush ad is used verbatim. Please explain what the lie is.

tecoyah · 06-29-2004, 06:22 PM

I was edited because I could not be civil.

pan6467 · 06-29-2004, 06:24 PM

So having a picture of Hitler and using Hitler's sound clips in the ad is ok for BUSHY, but when it was done to him (in a much lesser degree) he yells and screams and demands appologies and gets them? doesn't that sound hypocritical?

And you can bait all you want, I hate Bush, I am not a big Kerry fan (and I will rip him for his ads also trust me) but most of all I hate divisive hateful hypocritical partisan politics (this would not have happened 8, 12, 16, 20 and so on years ago) and THAT is what is going on here. You are just too blind in partisan politics to see it.

wonderwench · 06-29-2004, 06:30 PM

You are completely missing the point. The Bush ad quotes the Dems and their own supporters.

Period.

It doesn't comare the Dems to Hitler, but references the despicable moveon.org ad which made such a comparison to Bush. Kerry is benefiting from the efforts of the people in the Bush ad; Bush has every right to quote these same people.

Personally, I think Kerry is harming himself by allowing the increasingly disconnected from reality version of Al Gore to rant on his behalf.

pan6467 · 06-29-2004, 06:40 PM

All I can say is dude keep living in your world. Keep living by what Limbaugh feeds ya, because I have a feeling you'll be one of the first to start putting anyone who disagrees politically with you in prison.

tecoyah · 06-29-2004, 06:47 PM

The entertainment value has officially worn off....I am outa this thread.

seretogis · 06-29-2004, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wonderwench
You are completely missing the point. The Bush ad quotes the Dems and their own supporters.

Period.

It doesn't comare the Dems to Hitler, but references the despicable moveon.org ad which made such a comparison to Bush. Kerry is benefiting from the efforts of the people in the Bush ad; Bush has every right to quote these same people.

This is absolutely true. The Hitler clip was from a moveon ad, and some of you need to wipe your frothing mouths, stop making personal attacks, and analyze the ad for more than thirty seconds before spewing "OMG BUSH R MAEK SO LOW BLOW!!@@!!@!" on this board.

DelayedReaction · 06-29-2004, 10:47 PM

Guys, chill out. Personal attacks bring nothing to the table.

I think this ad may backfire. Not only does it represent another typical attack ad (which the public is steadily getting tired of), but it doesn't really show the President in a good light. Think about the sequence of the commerical...

1) Attack on Kerry & Sponsors
2) Comparison of Kerry to Hitler
3) Declaration that Attack Ads are Wrong
4) Videos of speeches attacking Bush.
5) Supportive blurb of Bush.

Now, what I can only suspect they want the audience to do is first feel concerned at what Kerry's doing, then agree that personal attacks are bad, get annoyed at the personal attacks being depicted, then agree that Bush is the opposite of "pessimism and hate."

What I experienced is something different. I see the attack ads and Hitler comparison, and then see a statement that personal attacks are bad. My mind goes WTF? while I come to terms with this, all the while being exposed to rhetoric of Bush's failures by vocal liberals. When Bush's "hey I'm better than them!" bit comes around, I've decided it's kinda funny and start laughing at him.

Your mileage may vary, but that's what I got. Seriously; how can presenting the arguments of your opponents ever be good for you?

Sun Tzu · 06-29-2004, 11:43 PM

The only thought that comes to my mind is amusing. I found it humerous.

Click here

for a quick interesting piece of work. Click on the one titled "The Voice"

boatin · 06-30-2004, 12:42 AM

so the point that has been missed is that the original ad was put together by someone entering a contest.

When moveon realized it, they removed it. Here is there response to the ad:

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2004/1/prweb97559.php

Please read it. It's the sort of ownership of the problem/disavowal of the content that we should see more of in politics.

So what we have is an attempt to imply that Kerry endorsed this. Or the implication that moveon endorsed/created this. Neither of which is true. One person submitted (anonymously?), and has created the firestorm.

The fact that this thread's readers missed this not so subtle point, is what the ad counts on. Sad to see it works.

It may be true that these practices are what others use. I would hope for better from the President of the United States. Shouldn't he be campaigning on his record, or something?

Peetster · 06-30-2004, 03:15 AM

I believe we have passed the point at which any new ideas will emerge.

06-29-2004, 04:40 PM	#2 (permalink)
nanofever Huzzah for Welcome Week, Much beer shall I imbibe. Location: UCSB	Honestly, I wouldn't expect any less of the adminstration we have seen in the last six months. This just seems to add to that wet dream I have, where Cheney, Bush, Ashcroft, Wolfiwitz, Rumsfeld and Rice are all sent to jail for high crimes and mis-demeanors. __________________ I'm leaving for the University of California: Santa Barbara in 5 hours, give me your best college advice - things I need, good ideas, bad ideas, nooky, ect. Originally Posted by Norseman on another forum: "Yeah, the problem with the world is the stupid people are all cocksure of themselves and the intellectuals are full of doubt."

06-29-2004, 04:45 PM	#3 (permalink)
tecoyah Illusionary	Pathetic. __________________ Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

06-29-2004, 05:12 PM	#4 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	I see so the ONE who should be compared to Hitler complained and cried and got an ad taken off and then turns around and uses a Hitler comparison on the other guy. And when someone on a message board brings Hitler's name in with Bush, there's freaking Hell to pay, but again the hypocrits on the right say it is ok for their great leader to do it to the left. Doesn't surprise me Bush will stop at nothing to win. And what's sad is HE IS FUCKING DESTROYING THE COUNTRY BY HIS DIVISION OF THE PEOPLE AND PLAYING PARTISAN POLITICS WITH NO MORALS AND NO SCRUPLES. A VOTE FOR BUSH IS A VOTE TO APPROVE THESE KINDS OF ADS. Sorry lost it there. I hate Bush, the only thing I like about him is his stance on space exploration, but even that was probably for personal reasons, like Haliburton being a major NASA supplier. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

06-29-2004, 06:22 PM	#17 (permalink)
tecoyah Illusionary	I was edited because I could not be civil. __________________ Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha Last edited by bermuDa; 06-29-2004 at 11:17 PM..

06-29-2004, 06:24 PM	#18 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	So having a picture of Hitler and using Hitler's sound clips in the ad is ok for BUSHY, but when it was done to him (in a much lesser degree) he yells and screams and demands appologies and gets them? doesn't that sound hypocritical? And you can bait all you want, I hate Bush, I am not a big Kerry fan (and I will rip him for his ads also trust me) but most of all I hate divisive hateful hypocritical partisan politics (this would not have happened 8, 12, 16, 20 and so on years ago) and THAT is what is going on here. You are just too blind in partisan politics to see it. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

06-29-2004, 05:21 PM	#5 (permalink)
wonderwench Banned	Gee whiz. All the Bushies did was to take a cue from Michael Moore and engage in a bit of clever splicing and editing. All of the clips are true and sourced from the Dems themselves.

06-29-2004, 05:46 PM	#7 (permalink)
wonderwench Banned	No, Michael Moore's ideology and politics sicken me. But if Kerry is going to allow Michael Moore on stage at official DNC fundraisers, then he is inviting a similar response from the GOP. There is a simple solution for Kerry, he could denounce the lies. He won't; but that is his choice.

06-29-2004, 06:02 PM	#11 (permalink)
wonderwench Banned	I am just observing that MM uses clever editing to create a misimpression. He also has several lies in his film. The Bushies have emulated the clever editing. None of the clips were manufactured by them.

06-29-2004, 06:14 PM	#13 (permalink)
wonderwench Banned	No, we have a president showing clips of the opposition party comparing him to Hitler.

06-29-2004, 06:20 PM	#16 (permalink)
wonderwench Banned	If you choose to interpret it that way, so be it. Each and every one of the clips in the Bush ad is used verbatim. Please explain what the lie is.

06-29-2004, 06:30 PM	#19 (permalink)
wonderwench Banned	You are completely missing the point. The Bush ad quotes the Dems and their own supporters. Period. It doesn't comare the Dems to Hitler, but references the despicable moveon.org ad which made such a comparison to Bush. Kerry is benefiting from the efforts of the people in the Bush ad; Bush has every right to quote these same people. Personally, I think Kerry is harming himself by allowing the increasingly disconnected from reality version of Al Gore to rant on his behalf. Last edited by wonderwench; 06-29-2004 at 06:33 PM..

06-29-2004, 06:40 PM	#20 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	All I can say is dude keep living in your world. Keep living by what Limbaugh feeds ya, because I have a feeling you'll be one of the first to start putting anyone who disagrees politically with you in prison. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

06-29-2004, 06:47 PM	#21 (permalink)
tecoyah Illusionary	The entertainment value has officially worn off....I am outa this thread. __________________ Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

06-29-2004, 10:47 PM	#23 (permalink)
DelayedReaction BFG Builder Location: University of Maryland	Guys, chill out. Personal attacks bring nothing to the table. I think this ad may backfire. Not only does it represent another typical attack ad (which the public is steadily getting tired of), but it doesn't really show the President in a good light. Think about the sequence of the commerical... 1) Attack on Kerry & Sponsors 2) Comparison of Kerry to Hitler 3) Declaration that Attack Ads are Wrong 4) Videos of speeches attacking Bush. 5) Supportive blurb of Bush. Now, what I can only suspect they want the audience to do is first feel concerned at what Kerry's doing, then agree that personal attacks are bad, get annoyed at the personal attacks being depicted, then agree that Bush is the opposite of "pessimism and hate." What I experienced is something different. I see the attack ads and Hitler comparison, and then see a statement that personal attacks are bad. My mind goes WTF? while I come to terms with this, all the while being exposed to rhetoric of Bush's failures by vocal liberals. When Bush's "hey I'm better than them!" bit comes around, I've decided it's kinda funny and start laughing at him. Your mileage may vary, but that's what I got. Seriously; how can presenting the arguments of your opponents ever be good for you? __________________ If ignorance is bliss, you must be having an orgasm.

06-29-2004, 11:43 PM	#24 (permalink)
Sun Tzu Conspiracy Realist Location: The Event Horizon	The only thought that comes to my mind is amusing. I found it humerous. Click here for a quick interesting piece of work. Click on the one titled "The Voice" __________________ *To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking*

06-30-2004, 12:42 AM	#25 (permalink)
boatin Psycho	so the point that has been missed is that the original ad was put together by someone entering a contest. When moveon realized it, they removed it. Here is there response to the ad: http://www.prweb.com/releases/2004/1/prweb97559.php Please read it. It's the sort of ownership of the problem/disavowal of the content that we should see more of in politics. So what we have is an attempt to imply that Kerry endorsed this. Or the implication that moveon endorsed/created this. Neither of which is true. One person submitted (anonymously?), and has created the firestorm. The fact that this thread's readers missed this not so subtle point, is what the ad counts on. Sad to see it works. It may be true that these practices are what others use. I would hope for better from the President of the United States. Shouldn't he be campaigning on his record, or something?

06-30-2004, 03:15 AM	#26 (permalink)
Peetster Right Now Location: Home	I believe we have passed the point at which any new ideas will emerge.