pan6467

Heard about this in another thread and after reading the article, sounds like Cheney's losing it. This is NOT the way the VP of an administration shoving morals (raising fines on "obscenities, wanting an amendment on defining marriage, etc) laws down our throat and catering to the religious right should talk.

Truly wondering how those for the new finess, Limbaugh, Beck, Fox News and the Religious Right are going to defend this, as on a different thread it was said this was aired on C-SPAN live.

Personally, I think all the problems are making these guys crack under the pressure. If you have nothing to hide and are legit, you'll be cool as ice, but if you're hiding things and lying you have the temper and are ready to burst at the slightest thing.

I think this is the nail in Cheney's coffin, think we'll be seeing a new running mate for Dubya.
=================================
Cheney Utters 'F-Word' in Senate -- Aides
By Thomas Ferraro

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Vice President Dick Cheney blurted out the "F word" at Democratic Sen. Patrick Leahy of Vermont during a heated exchange on the Senate floor, congressional aides said on Thursday.

The incident occurred on Tuesday in a terse discussion between the two that touched on politics, religion and money, with Cheney finally telling Leahy to "f--- off" or "go f--- yourself," the aides said.

"I think he was just having a bad day," Leahy was quoted as saying on CNN, which first reported the incident. "I was kind of shocked to hear that kind of language on the floor."

"That doesn't sound like language the vice president would use but there was a frank exchange of views," said Cheney spokesman Kevin Kellems.

According to congressional aides, Leahy said hello to Cheney following the taking of the Senate group photo on the floor of the chamber.

Cheney, who is president of the Senate, then ripped into Leahy for the Democratic senator's criticism this week of alleged war profiteering in Iraq by Halliburton, the oil services company that Cheney once ran.

Leahy and other Democrats have called for congressional hearings into whether the vice president helped the firm win lucrative contracts in Iraq after the U.S.-led war that toppled Saddam Hussein.

During their exchange, Leahy noted that Republicans had accused Democrats of being anti-Catholic because they are opposed to some of President Bush's anti-abortion judges, the aides said.

That's when Cheney unloaded with the "F-bomb," aides said.

With the Senate sharply divided, Democrats and Republicans have had numerous partisan battles in recent years on matters from taxes to health care.

"Things have been pretty bad around here," said Sen. Max Baucus, a Montana Democrat. "But as far as I know, as far as I'm concerned, this is a new low."

According to Senate rules, profanity is not permitted while the chamber is in session. But when the exchange occurred between Leahy and Cheney, the Senate was not in session so there was technically no foul.

Earlier on Thursday, before word of the exchange spread, Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle, a South Dakota Democrat, stood in the chamber and spoke of the need to improve civility with what he called the "politics of common ground."
=================================

link: http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news/election2004.jsp

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

onetime2

Another non issue. Imagine that a politician lost his temper. They're human. Big deal.

It's happened to the best of them. Anyone remember Clinton's diatribe caught on tape as he swore and cursed an aide? Just like this it meant nothing. If there was a long term pattern of this stuff I might be tempted to say there's a problem but once in a while people lose their cool. He wasn't making an official statement (where I would agree that it's wholly inappropriate) but he was having a private conversation (albeit with an audience).

No one can say what caused him to lose it so assuming "the pressure" is getting to him is a bit of a reach IMO.

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Superbelt

To "us" it's no big deal. But this (just like the Jack Ryan sexual deviancy [and 20 dozen other cases of high profile republican infidelities]) just shows how the Right will go and criticise the left for everything, and try to claim the moral high ground when they are really no better than the left/democrats.
Rep 6:66, 67 "And there will be a deafening silence surrounding any republican human failings." "But strike down with great vengeance any librul/Democrat who would expose his humanity to our claw"
John Kerry says "Did I expect George Bush to fuck it up as badly as he did? I don't think anybody did." And he gets pounced on like a slab of beef in a den of starving jackals as being "unfit for the office."

"There's Adam Clymer, major league asshole from the New York Times." "Big Time."

pan6467

And how long did Limbaugh bash Clinton for that?

It's not the being human that bothers me. It's the double standard that the GOP and the Religious Right and so on throw tizzies and complain and make big deals out of these things when Dems do it, but totally ignore and make up reasons for it being ok for a GOP to do the exact same thing. Or hound the Dems when they turn the tables, saying what cheapshot artists we are.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

onetime2

Oh please. And how long will the left's pundits bash Cheney for this? Pointing to political pundits as proof of anything is ridiculous. That's what they get paid to do. Did Clinton's tirade impact his election hopes? Did it turn masses of people against him? Of course not. Those who disliked him used it to justify their hatred just as those who dislike Cheney will do the same. Pointing to this single incident as anything more than someone losing their temper is simply partisan mud slinging. Were you offering criticism of Clinton when he did it? If not then please stop pointing to the "Religious Right" and the "GOP" as being hypocrites as there is little consistency on similar "issues" from your camp.

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Bill O'Rights

To me...that's the crux of it right there. Do I really care that Dick Cheney said "Fuck you"? No, I couldn't care less. In fact, it does show that he's human. What concerns me is the fact that the Republicans tend to want to portray themselves as the guardians of decency. Public and private. When the reality is, and has repeatedly shown itself to be, they are every bit as "earthy" as those that they rail against. When you think about it, isn't that why Howard Stern is looking for work? The hypocricy is the only thing that I really have a problem with.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

tecoyah

I guess my "evil robot" theory is in a shambles....Damn.

Seriously though, As the Vice President, I would hope for a little more care in public statements. Between the Fundy attitudes of Bush, and the seemingly Evil stances of Cheney, these guys should hate each other.

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

lurkette

Come on, I can't believe this is even an issue. I don't consider the use of "the f-word" particularly scandalous or immoral or even hypocritical. Indecorous perhaps, but aren't there bigger things to be concerned about than the veep's potty mouth?

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onetime2

Thank you for injecting some reality to this thread.

Perhaps it shouldn't but it still amazes me that a single statement is taken as evidence of how an entire political party is wrong or hypocritical.

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Bookman

The only reason Cheney still has a job is because he is VP.
Let someone else curse out a Senator and Time magazine and Newsweek along with Ken Starr would campaign until said person looses a job.

Hanxter

"...kind of..."???

well shiver me timbers...

must not be a robin williams fan...

silent_jay

Howard isn't looking for work, I download the latest show everyday, and yes it's still as raunchy as ever only now Clear Channel take quite the beating.


As for the VP saying the F-word, meh not a big deal, this administration is doing far worse than saying the F-word, that should be the least of their worries.

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

Stompy

I say "fuck" all the time. Big whoop.

I honestly believe that people offended by swearing have issues. They're just words.

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Paq

I don't think many are truly offended by hearing the word fuck, Fuck duck, fuck diddly uck, well fuck me twice and call me charlie, whatever.

it's the fact of who and where it was said.

I mean, It would be like me going into a job meeting and telling one of the guys to go fuck himself bc we disagree or are in a heated debate. I may get upset or whatever, but in that context, i'd at least try to avoid dropping the F-bomb and i'm sure as hell not going to drop it with tv cameras are around...

And this is also one of the people sooo concerned with the children when, *GASP* a human female breast is exposed...oh dear, the inhumanity of it all....or would it be the humanity of it all.

I have an american gov't teacher friend who tells her class of 9th graders to watch cspan when tehy get a chance and she was telling me of a few kids who were laughing about the cheney outburst yesterday. I mean, really, do you want little 14 yr olds repeating that type of language?

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pan6467

I see so it's ok for Limbaugh to make Clinton's tirade and Kerry saying the "F" word a focal point for a week and to remind people every chance he has. BUT let a commoner like me post MY rant about Cheney doing the same thing and I'm making mountains out of molehills.

I see, just want to understand the battlefield here in our debates. I can't post or talk about anything that GOP members do, but it's ok for a talk show host to lambaste Dems when they do the same thing. BY the way you still have to bring Clinton into it. You guys cannot argue ANYTHING without bringing Clinton into it, pathetic.

No, it's not a big deal, the 2 big deals for me are:

Cheney is part of an administration that is raising fines and trying to define morals, yet, the VP knowing cameras are on him loses control. What would happen if instead of cursing Leahy, it had been the ambassador or leader of a country. When one is elected to that high of an office they need to maintain composure, because he proved to me that he would cuss out the leader of another country because he lacks self control.

As for Clinton, there is a big big difference between cursing an employee working for you for not doing their job the way you, the employer expected them to do it, and cursing someone who is supposedly a peer and an elected official.

It's also different in an interview setting.

I have had many bosses who would come in and curse at the workers. They usually were jerks and didn't keep people long because of it, but some bosses are like that.

I remember when Dems. said bad things, never once swearing mind you, they were just pointing out the philosophical differences about Bush's policies and were called unpatriotic and lambasted for talking about a president in such ways. Yet, again it is OK that someone from the right can tell in public on live tele to go fuck themself or fuck off.

In all honesty, I'm just trying to show this is one way we are keeping partisan politics a political hate game. To the right, in Clinton and Kerry's cases this was a HUGE issue, yet when the GOP do it, it's not an issue and, "how dare anyone say it is, if you didn't bust Clinton and Kerry for it then you have no right to say anything about Cheney." and that's from the same people who carried on about Clinto and Kerry. Just like every GOP out there who screamed about Clinton's affair, yet never said a word about Gingrich's.

Doesn't anyone see the bullshit in this? IT IS A FUCKING NON ISSUE BUT IT HELPS TO KEEP PEOPLE HATING THE OTHER POLITICAL PARTY. THAT'S MY TRUE POINT, TOOK FOREVER TO GET THERE BUT..... LOOK WHO'S TYPING THIS.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

onetime2

Again, you can not use what political pundits do to prop up your case. Their goal is to generate the partisan bickering that you are buying into. I brought up Clinton to point out that you are doing the exact same thing you are lambasting the GOP for. Where was your outrage then?

Please notice I said it was a non issue for Clinton AND a non issue for Cheney. You however claim it was a non issue for Clinton but suddenly it's an issue for Cheney because it was directed at an elected official. The offense, if you can even call it that, is the same. Losing your cool in a public setting and letting loose with an obscenity. Ooooh, let's bring him up on charges.

Additionally, trying to stretch your argument to imply that Cheney would do the same thing to the leader of another country could just as easily be done to the Clinton example yet it's still ok for Clinton right?

__________________
Strive to be more curious than ignorant.

Superbelt

Thanks to Jesus' General
I hope noone is holding their breaths for these people to rebuke Cheney for the same damned thing.

pan6467

I'm not going to keep arguing the difference between employer tirades, an informal interview setting (free speech) and being on the Senate floor cursing an elected official. Just suffice it to say to me there is a big difference between swearing at an empolyee for screwing up (sure he may treat his employees like crap and be an asshole, BUT that doesn't mean he talks to everyone else in that manner: my own father is a great example, work for him screw up and he lets you know it, but outside of that situation the man never says a bad word about or to anyone) an interview session and publicly swearing at an elected peer. I can't go to work and cuss out a fellow co-worker and expect to have my job, why should he?

Oi, I typed more up yonder than I should have or wanted to.

Did you read my last post's last sentence? This is just a non issue but it is the game of partisan politics where it pushes the sides apart and it has nothing to do with anything, but it keeps resentments of the other political party alive.

Why is that? Both sides are guilty of making issues out of the same things, and bitching when the other makes an issue of something. IT just makes no sense all it does is affirms one's belief that their party is "better" and "can deal with this non issue better, while the other side loses it over this non issue."

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

onetime2

I'm certain there will be plenty of liberal leaning pundits who take on that responsibility.

__________________
Strive to be more curious than ignorant.

onetime2

If it's a non issue why did you start the thread to begin with and point to this one single statement as "the nail in Cheney's coffin"?

Pan, I honestly don't understand your point in all this. I know (from our other conversations) you recognize the assinine abuse of such examples in partisan politics but am baffled as to why you cited it to begin with and then say it's a non issue.

__________________
Strive to be more curious than ignorant.

Superbelt

Actually. I haven't heard much and it's been two days now. Even Leahy more or less blew it off.

pan6467

I cited it because I wanted to show the hypocrasy, just took me forever to be able to get to the point. (I have never had that problem before....lol). Sometimes I get lost in playing devil's advocate.

It was a non issue when the right made it an issue, and it is a non issue now, but both sides are making it an issue and creating more antagonism towards the other party.

I fall into the game as easily as anyone, but then all of a sudden mid sentence I see the bullshit for what it is and realize this is the game the politicians play to take heat and focus off of what maybe truly going on behind those meetings and being added to bills.

So we'll focus more on this non issue for a few days, instead of say the fines for obscenity being raised or some other bill being passed that truly does affect us.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

onetime2

I've seen a few passing references to it but I have little doubt that it will last a while alongside the criticisms of the obscenity fines.

__________________
Strive to be more curious than ignorant.

onetime2

Alright then. Now, I can (again) say I agree with you. It's just all partisan crap with no real meaning. As we seem to both recognize the hypocrisy on both sides only serves to incite the partisan base and get people talking on the cocktail party (and message board) circuit.

Although, probably not surprising to you, I really don't care much about the fines for obscenity either way.

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Strive to be more curious than ignorant.

Delvid

I am glad Cheney uses the f word. Every time I think about him and W and what they have done to us the f word suddenly starts explode out of my mouth.

Hwed

They've kept you safe so you can gripe about them, spurred a rapidly growing economy, and cut short a recession they inherited from your boy Clinton. Man, if that makes you curse, I've got a bar of soap you can borrow.

roachboy

i think that this is in itself a non-issue.
the fact that these clowns find themselves under seige these days, however, is a good thing that has been far too long in coming. as a symptom how how an imperious, arrogant, incompetent administration reacts when the chickens start to come home to roost, cheney's little blow-up and bush's snippiness with interviewers of late are interesting. sort of.

for more , have a look here:

http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com...Fwhbriefing%2F

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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

boatin

criminy! how much flamebait can you put into a single sentence? that first one might set some sort of record.

you should always warm up before stretching like that. we don't want you to hurt yourself!




roach, your link is a deadender...

tecoyah

*Refrains from comment* Barely

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

wonderwench

Much ado about nothing. To expect that our elected official do not swear is naive. Considering how the common venacular seems to consist largely of variations of the F-work, I'm surprised we don't here about such slip ups more often.

The bigger issue for Cheney is that he is a lame duck VP at best. The GOP should replace him on the ticket in order to have an heir apparent to run in 2008, should Bush be re-elected. Cheney serves as a Chief of Staff in practise, and should be moved to that role.

DelayedReaction

You know what? Fuck Cheney, Fuck Bush, Fuck Kerry, and Fuck the "F-Bomb." I'm getting sick and tired of hearing nothing more than smear campaigns and stupid anecdotes about who said what to who's mom. When you can't tell the difference between a presidential election and high school, it's time to move on.

Where are the fucking ISSUES? Where are the intelligent debates between candidates on things that matter to me? How long am I going to have to deal with this smear-tactic, penny-anty, he-said-she-said, lowest-common denominator, mindless, senseless, waste-of-my-time BULLSHIT?

I want candidates, not overgrown children who say "AWWWWWW!" every time a naughty word is spoken

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If ignorance is bliss, you must be having an orgasm.

wonderwench

Here here! By creating such standards of behavior (ie, a candidate should never utter a naughty word, have smoked pot, had an affair, gone golfing with a Supreme Court Justice, etc.) all we do is to discourage honorable people from pursuing public service and leave the government an open trough for the dishonest ones who pillage our tax dollars.

Paq

and what happens when the next pres gets a BJ in office?

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pan6467

YOU GOT MY POINT.

They deflect the issues with absolute BS and it is easy for the most rational of people to get caught up in these things,especially when the press focuses more on the BS than on the issues.

I think the reason they avoid issues and give us BS, is because they are scared of telling us the truth about issues and what needs to be done to make this country as great as it was.

And that brings a problem in and of itself because we need a great leader to make us great, and because of the dirt and nastiness and ruining of someone's character and family, the true greats are scared to run.

I once asked my father why he never ran or will run for office and his words are very true of many great men. "They'll destroy me for the mistakes I made and make even my smallest seem like it was the worst thing a man could ever do."

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"