Who gets the bill? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Bill O'Rights · 06-22-2004, 08:53 AM

Quote:

LINCOLN, Neb. -- The Lincoln Mayor's Office said it wants someone to pick up the $31,900 tab left over from Vice President Dick Cheney's visit to the capital city last week.

Mayor Coleen Seng's chief of staff, Mark Bowen, said the office plans to ask for reimbursement as soon as it knows where to send the bill.

Cheney was in town Friday to campaign for Jeff Fortenberry, who is running for Congress. Cheney spent part of his boyhood in Lincoln, and also visited with some people from his past while he was in town.

Link to article

I looked this up because I heard on the local televised report that the Nebraska Republican party is calling this "partisan politics at it's worst." I'm sorry. I guess that I just don't see it that way. Why should the City of Lincoln pay almost $32,000, because Cheney wanted to do some stumping for the party, and go visit the spot where he skinned his knee riding his velocipede about a hundred years ago?

I leave it up to y'all. (Ya like that y'all? I'm from the Northeast, y'know.

) Who should get the bill?

*edit* By the way. I hold no illusion that this is an isolated case involving Lincoln and Nebraska. It is a very small slice of a very large pie. It happens all over. This one just caught my attention.

Averett · 06-22-2004, 09:08 AM

Cheney. His trip, his bill.

onetime2 · 06-22-2004, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bill O'Rights
Link to article

I looked this up because I heard on the local televised report that the Nebraska Republican party is calling this "partisan politics at it's worst." I'm sorry. I guess that I just don't see it that way. Why should the City of Lincoln pay almost $32,000, because Cheney wanted to do some stumping for the party, and go visit the spot where he skinned his knee riding his velocipede about a hundred years ago?

I leave it up to y'all. (Ya like that y'all? I'm from the Northeast, y'know. ) Who should get the bill?

Sorry but without knowing what the "expenses" were I'll say let the town pay. I don't get money from my company without detailing every cent. While I'm sure that they're prepared to do so this article doesn't provide details.

Bill O'Rights · 06-22-2004, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by onetime2
Sorry but without knowing what the "expenses" were I'll say let the town pay. I don't get money from my company without detailing every cent. While I'm sure that they're prepared to do so this article doesn't provide details.

Hmmm...good point. Without knowing for certain, my very educated guess would be for the extra security needed from the Lincoln Police Department. Road crews needed to set up roadblocks for the motorcade. Things of this ilk.

Peryn · 06-22-2004, 09:21 AM

I think it needs to be split up. Fortenberry/Republican (state) party should pay for all expenses related to the campaigning. Flights to and from, room and board, etc that had to do with his promoting Fortenberry. I think Cheney should be responsible for his personal expenses that dealt with old family and freinds and such. If the nat'l rep. party want to foot part of that bill, they can, but i dont think they should have to.

I cant imagine any company (though i have no experience) sending someone on a business trip, and then paying for extra costs for him to play around with old freinds/family.

And i cant see any reason the state should have to pay for anyones personal expenses. He wasn't coming in for state business, he wasn't coming in for a state party... it was personal (for him, and Fortenberry).

ultra_agent9 · 06-22-2004, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Averett
Cheney. His trip, his bill.

ditto

onetime2 · 06-22-2004, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bill O'Rights
Hmmm...good point. Without knowing for certain, my very educated guess would be for the extra security needed from the Lincoln Police Department. Road crews needed to set up roadblocks for the motorcade. Things of this ilk.

Certainly not a bad assumption but I think it needs to be detailed a little better. Additionally I would love to know how much of this stuff was necessary for the visit and how much is at the discretion of the towns. Without knowing these details it's impossible to say who should pay.

I know for a fact that a locality near me in NJ constantly inflated their bills to concerts going on in an outdoor concert field. They did it because they could and the amounts they paid for police overtime and the like were ridiculous. It would not surprise me in the least if this occurs with visiting politicians and dignitaries as well.

pan6467 · 06-22-2004, 09:59 AM

I can almost guarantee if Cheney does have to pay it will be with taxpayer money and not out of his millions in the bank.

It pisses me off when people expect others to pick up their tabs. I have to pay for everything I do, especially if it's personal business.

I guess the perks of being VP and not fearing repercussions for anything has it's advantages.

Just more nails in Bush's coffin, but then again noone seems to truly care what this man gets away with, as long as the rich get their tax cuts and the poor stay in debt and have to work harder. Cause poor people don't vote anymore, they're too busy trying to make a living.

Superbelt · 06-22-2004, 10:14 AM

Fortenberry. It was just a campaign object for him so make him pay for that bit of campaign.

Bill O'Rights · 06-23-2004, 08:47 AM

A more detailed report. And it addresses onetime2's questions.

Quote:

Lincoln mayor readies the bill for Cheney's visitDick Cheney and Air Force Two are long gone, but a controversy still swirls around the vice president's visit to Lincoln: Who should pick up the tab for all that extra security?

Lincoln Mayor Coleen Seng says she intends to bill the vice president's office, or any other responsible party, for the nearly $32,000 in costs the city incurred last week when Cheney came to help raise money for GOP congressional candidate Jeff Fortenberry.

Republicans blasted the request, saying Tuesday that Lincoln's Democratic mayor was trying to make political hay and was embarrassing the state in the process. State GOP Chairman David Kramer said it was especially outlandish given that Cheney was returning to his hometown.

"This isn't about cost. It's about politics," Kramer said. "Lincoln is sending a message that leaders of the Free World aren't welcome here because the city is too cheap."

The Democratic Party's executive director said that if the Bush administration doesn't reimburse the city, Fortenberry, who raised $150,000 from the Cheney visit, should.

"It's shocking that a self-proclaimed conservative and former city councilman would expect taxpayers to subsidize his political fund-raiser," Barry Rubin said. "That money could pay for a new police officer or firefighter."

Lincoln city officials said they were researching Tuesday whether there is any precedent for such reimbursement. What they found, said the mayor's chief of staff, Mark Bowen, is that a lot of cities are asking that question.

Bowen said he suspects cities' interest comes from the tremendous amount of security required in the post-9/11 world.

Lincoln police were required to close off numerous streets for hours as part of the Cheney visit, and an ambulance had to travel with him at all times. While Lincoln has 40 officers on duty on a typical weekday, it needed to deploy 100 to meet the demands of the Secret Service.

Bowen said the mayor's request came out of citizen inquiries about street closings, costs and why taxpayers should bear the costs for a campaign trip.

Because that's the way it's done, the GOP's Kramer said.

Fortenberry was at a Washington, D.C., fund-raiser and couldn't be reached for comment.

Kramer noted that the City of Omaha and Mayor Mike Fahey didn't require reimbursement when Cheney came to Omaha to raise money for Bush last year.

Rubin said Fortenberry was reimbursing the federal government the $15,000 cost of flying Air Force Two to Lincoln. That, he said, shows there is a precedent for a campaign to pick up public costs for an event.

And...I'm no fan of Dick Cheney, but is that the best picture that they could find? It looks like it should have a caption about young firm breasts, or something. Yeesh

choskins · 06-23-2004, 08:58 AM

I think it is tacky, and obviously politically motivated, for the City to ask for reimbursement. They need to look at the residual effects to them. It is not like he was only their for that candidate. The whole City gets to take pride in him visiting. Like someone in that article said, "It goes with the territory." That is why they have police in the first place.

I guess if I am being assaulted or robbed, I will get a bill for having the police assist me. Or if they write me a speeding ticket, I will have to pay for that service too. Come on!

BigGov · 06-23-2004, 09:05 AM

I just think it should be paid by someone other than the taxpayers. If it was for official business dealing with something important, maybe I could see the city paying. But otherwise it's just a glorified vacation/fundraiser.

yournamehere · 06-23-2004, 09:08 AM

This was a fundraiser for Fortenberry - send him the bill.
Seems pretty simple to me.
If I throw a party - I expect to be charged for any expenses incurred.

Deduct it from the $150,000 that was raised.

Any other scenario leaves the taxpayers holding the bag
__

<i>"This isn't about cost. It's about politics," Kramer said. "Lincoln is sending a message that leaders of the Free World aren't welcome here because the city is too cheap."</i>

Somebody should bitch-slap this moron.

pan6467 · 06-23-2004, 09:20 AM

The Federal Government keeps cutting city help yet expects more police. Cities everywhere are going broke because not only have taxes been cut, BUT most people are making less so the taxes from the people are less also.

Cities cannot be expected to pay for unofficial visits or campaign fundraisers from the Pres. or VP. That is abuse of power and shows no respect for the taxpayer.

If either man, Cheney or Fortenberry, were respectful of the people they would pay and not make a case of it. It's not like either can't afford to pay.

If Clinton had done this, the GOP would have been all over him expecting him to pay. It's BS. Just pay the bill, guys and show you have respect for the taxpayers.

onetime2 · 06-23-2004, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pan6467
If Clinton had done this, the GOP would have been all over him expecting him to pay. It's BS. Just pay the bill, guys and show you have respect for the taxpayers.

Umm, it was done plenty by Clinton and just about every other politician so let's not go down that route.

I don't believe there are any rules to cover this situation. As such there is no clear cut answer. If the localities are concerned about it they need to pass local legislation that covers these situations for the future. I suspect (as noted in the article) that these requirements have been put in force in the wake of 9/11 and as such procedures for the handling of such costs have not been formally created.

For practical reasons Fortenberry should pay them to shut the story down. I think it's inappropriate to make the VP pay for them fully for the same reasons that the President does not pay full cost when he travels on Air Force One or anywhere else for personal reasons, the costs would be unbearable for just about anybody and these are security requirements necessary because of their public position.

pan6467 · 06-23-2004, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by onetime2
Umm, it was done plenty by Clinton and just about every other politician so let's not go down that route.

I don't believe there are any rules to cover this situation. As such there is no clear cut answer. If the localities are concerned about it they need to pass local legislation that covers these situations for the future. I suspect (as noted in the article) that these requirements have been put in force in the wake of 9/11 and as such procedures for the handling of such costs have not been formally created.

For practical reasons Fortenberry should pay them to shut the story down. I think it's inappropriate to make the VP pay for them fully for the same reasons that the President does not pay full cost when he travels on Air Force One or anywhere else for personal reasons, the costs would be unbearable for just about anybody and these are security requirements necessary because of their public position.

If we were in prosperous times and cities weren't facing financial bankruptcy, I could maybe see this. But I just think going on personal business and expecting the taxpayers to pay or the cities to pay is ridiculous.

You can't tell me Cheney couldn't come up with some "official" reason to be there.

As for the Clinton statement, perhaps he did. But did we ever hear of Gore doing this? Course during Gore's VP stretch I don't recall him doing much at all. Hell, he didn't even say much to deflect the problems Clinton was having. Was Gore ever on record about Lewinsky? Just a curious aside. Sorry thinking and typing only leads to rambling off topic.)

onetime2 · 06-23-2004, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pan6467
If we were in prosperous times and cities weren't facing financial bankruptcy, I could maybe see this. But I just think going on personal business and expecting the taxpayers to pay or the cities to pay is ridiculous.

You can't tell me Cheney couldn't come up with some "official" reason to be there.

As for the Clinton statement, perhaps he did. But did we ever hear of Gore doing this? Course during Gore's VP stretch I don't recall him doing much at all. Hell, he didn't even say much to deflect the problems Clinton was having. Was Gore ever on record about Lewinsky? Just a curious aside. Sorry thinking and typing only leads to rambling off topic.)

Gore was at least as bad as Clinton. Fund raising is fundraising it's done all the time.

If people really want to get into the subject you then have to weigh what towns gain from such visits. In plenty of cases they gain substantial "tourism" dollars from those attending such events. Like most things it's not as simple as that which is portrayed in the news. Hotel stays, car rentals, spending at restaurants, etc, etc, etc typically go up the day(s) preceding such gala events.

This is all pretty much a non-issue. As stated before, localities can pass local legislation requiring any events that force financial outlays by the town to be covered by parties involved prior to the events occurring. They didn't do it. No doubt they knew before now that they would incur costs yet suddenly it's a big issue? Please.

nanofever · 06-23-2004, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Superbelt
Fortenberry. It was just a campaign object for him so make him pay for that bit of campaign.

My thoughts exactly.

View Poll Results: Who should get to pay the $32,000
the City of Lincoln (ie the taxpayers)	2	6.67%
Dick Cheney	11	36.67%
Jeff Fortenberry	7	23.33%
Republican Party (state)	4	13.33%
Republican Party (national)	6	20.00%
Other (describe)	0	0%
Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll

06-22-2004, 09:08 AM	#2 (permalink)
Averett Is In Love Location: I'm workin' on it	Cheney. His trip, his bill. __________________ Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.

06-22-2004, 09:21 AM	#5 (permalink)
Peryn Junkie Location: San Diego, CA.	I think it needs to be split up. Fortenberry/Republican (state) party should pay for all expenses related to the campaigning. Flights to and from, room and board, etc that had to do with his promoting Fortenberry. I think Cheney should be responsible for his personal expenses that dealt with old family and freinds and such. If the nat'l rep. party want to foot part of that bill, they can, but i dont think they should have to. I cant imagine any company (though i have no experience) sending someone on a business trip, and then paying for extra costs for him to play around with old freinds/family. And i cant see any reason the state should have to pay for anyones personal expenses. He wasn't coming in for state business, he wasn't coming in for a state party... it was personal (for him, and Fortenberry). __________________ Dont cry kid, It's not your fault you suck.

06-22-2004, 09:59 AM	#8 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	I can almost guarantee if Cheney does have to pay it will be with taxpayer money and not out of his millions in the bank. It pisses me off when people expect others to pick up their tabs. I have to pay for everything I do, especially if it's personal business. I guess the perks of being VP and not fearing repercussions for anything has it's advantages. Just more nails in Bush's coffin, but then again noone seems to truly care what this man gets away with, as long as the rich get their tax cuts and the poor stay in debt and have to work harder. Cause poor people don't vote anymore, they're too busy trying to make a living. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

06-23-2004, 08:58 AM	#11 (permalink)
choskins Psycho Location: Greenville, SC	I think it is tacky, and obviously politically motivated, for the City to ask for reimbursement. They need to look at the residual effects to them. It is not like he was only their for that candidate. The whole City gets to take pride in him visiting. Like someone in that article said, "It goes with the territory." That is why they have police in the first place. I guess if I am being assaulted or robbed, I will get a bill for having the police assist me. Or if they write me a speeding ticket, I will have to pay for that service too. Come on! __________________ "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." - Sigmund Freud

06-22-2004, 10:14 AM	#9 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	Fortenberry. It was just a campaign object for him so make him pay for that bit of campaign.

06-23-2004, 09:05 AM	#12 (permalink)
BigGov WoW or Class... Location: UWW	I just think it should be paid by someone other than the taxpayers. If it was for official business dealing with something important, maybe I could see the city paying. But otherwise it's just a glorified vacation/fundraiser. __________________ One day an Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman walked into a pub together. They each bought a pint of Guinness. Just as they were about to enjoy their creamy beverage, three flies landed in each of their pints. The Englishman pushed his beer away in disgust. The Scotsman fished the fly out of his beer and continued drinking it, as if nothing had happened. The Irishman, too, picked the fly out of his drink but then held it out over the beer and yelled "SPIT IT OUT, SPIT IT OUT, YOU BASTARD!"

06-23-2004, 09:08 AM	#13 (permalink)
yournamehere Invisible Location: tentative, at best	This was a fundraiser for Fortenberry - send him the bill. Seems pretty simple to me. If I throw a party - I expect to be charged for any expenses incurred. Deduct it from the $150,000 that was raised. Any other scenario leaves the taxpayers holding the bag __ <i>"This isn't about cost. It's about politics," Kramer said. "Lincoln is sending a message that leaders of the Free World aren't welcome here because the city is too cheap."</i> Somebody should bitch-slap this moron. __________________ If you want to avoid 95% of internet spelling errors: "If your ridiculous pants are too loose, you're definitely going to lose them. Tell your two loser friends over there that they're going to lose theirs, too." It won't hurt your fashion sense, either. Last edited by yournamehere; 06-23-2004 at 11:28 AM..

06-23-2004, 09:20 AM	#14 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	The Federal Government keeps cutting city help yet expects more police. Cities everywhere are going broke because not only have taxes been cut, BUT most people are making less so the taxes from the people are less also. Cities cannot be expected to pay for unofficial visits or campaign fundraisers from the Pres. or VP. That is abuse of power and shows no respect for the taxpayer. If either man, Cheney or Fortenberry, were respectful of the people they would pay and not make a case of it. It's not like either can't afford to pay. If Clinton had done this, the GOP would have been all over him expecting him to pay. It's BS. Just pay the bill, guys and show you have respect for the taxpayers. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"