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Old 06-18-2004, 07:18 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Texas GOP says U.S. is Christian nation

http://washingtontimes.com/upi-break...2118-3161r.htm


The Republican Party of Texas affirms that the United States of America is a Christian nation, and the public acknowledgment of God is undeniable in our history," said the platform, approved during a meeting earlier this month in Austin.

The statement said: "Our nation was founded on fundamental Judeo-Christian principles based on the Holy Bible. The party affirms freedom of religion, and rejects efforts of courts and secular activists who seek to remove and deny such a rich heritage from our public lives."

The Washington Times reported Sunday the Republican National Committee has refused to criticize the Texas party faithful.

The national party "doesn't control the state parties' platforms," said RNC Communications Director Jim Dyke. "Each state party determines what their state platform will say."

But others have been strongly critical of the move.

"This is part and parcel of who the GOP and their conservative base are," said David Harris, spokesman for the National Jewish Democratic Committee. "While this is nothing new, it certainly raises to new excesses the lengths this Republican Party is going to in order to tear down the wall separating church and state


I think this a a bad move in that it does cross the line of church/state seperation and sets up the Christian religion as the "chosen" one.
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Old 06-18-2004, 07:58 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Just as with Islam, and any other religion for that matter, Christianity is peppered with its' fundamentalists and zealots. No big surprise here. They have an agenda, and they are ready and willing to push it. So long as there is oposition (and there is plenty)...I'm content with that.
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Old 06-18-2004, 08:06 AM   #3 (permalink)
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The Texas GOP can go screw themselves.

Okay, that's harsh. But I hate when people speak on the part of the entire nation. Especially when such people are religious nuts.
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Old 06-18-2004, 08:12 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bill O'Rights
Just as with Islam, and any other religion for that matter, Christianity is peppered with its' fundamentalists and zealots. No big surprise here. They have an agenda, and they are ready and willing to push it. So long as there is oposition (and there is plenty)...I'm content with that.
I am encouraged by all of the oppostion as well.
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Old 06-18-2004, 09:09 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Every member of the Texas GOP deserves to be smothered with a pillow.

Quote:
Our nation was founded on fundamental Judeo-Christian principles based on the Holy Bible
Bullshit revisionist historians. Our most prominent founding fathers were Deists. Which is basically that they believed in A God. But that God has no basis in any earthly religion.

First
The First Amendment
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...”

Article VI, Section 3
“...no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.”

Founding Father Quotes.
Quote:
John Adams

“The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”

“I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved — the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!”

“The Doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity.”

“I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved — the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!”
Quote:
Thomas Jefferson

“Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between church and State.”

“...an amendment was proposed by inserting the words, ‘Jesus Christ...the holy author of our religion,’ which was rejected ‘By a great majority in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and the Mohammedan, the Hindoo and the Infidel of every denomination.’”

“The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.”

“In every country and in every age the priest has been hostile to liberty; he is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.”
Quote:
James Madison

“Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise....During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.”

“Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
Quote:
Ben Franklin

“...Some books against Deism fell into my hands....It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quote to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations, in short, I soon became a thorough Deist.”
Some of our Founding Father Deists:
Thomas Paine, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams,
James Madison, Ethan Allan, Ben Franklin, Henry Dearborne, Charles Lee.
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Old 06-18-2004, 09:16 AM   #6 (permalink)
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This doesn't surprise me. All you hear is this BS Christian Nation garbage.
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Old 06-18-2004, 09:22 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Many Christian fundamentalists believe that "American values" are intrinsically and inextricably bound up in Christian philosophy to the extent that they are unable to view society outside of those parameters. As Superbelt has pointed out, one need only read the writings of the Founders to see that the assertion that the U.S. is a Christian nation is wholly without merit.
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Old 06-18-2004, 09:26 AM   #8 (permalink)
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The Founding Fathers (something on the order of 54 men I believe) were a mixture of Deists and Christians (at least according to classifications made by present day "scholars" who have studied their writings, teachings, vocations, etc.)

Since a relative few were Deists that means the majority were Christians.

What difference it makes I have no idea. Whatever their faith they all held strong beliefs in God and quite a few of them were seminary teachers and theologists.

Many of the Judeo-Christian principles carry over into Deism making the following statement perfectly applicable:

Quote:
"Our nation was founded on fundamental Judeo-Christian principles based on the Holy Bible. The party affirms freedom of religion, and rejects efforts of courts and secular activists who seek to remove and deny such a rich heritage from our public lives."
You can be a Deist and still have Judeo-Christian values/principles.
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Old 06-18-2004, 09:48 AM   #9 (permalink)
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It wasn't a relative few. And the ones who really counted. The leaders were mostly diests. It is telling that a MAJORITY of our founders voted down this line: "Jesus Christ...the holy author of our religion." (as shown in my Jefferson Quotes). The majority of our founders wanted to keep religion out of our government. Many, despite their personal beliefs. This nation is areligious. Not athiest like communist countries. Because that is still preferential. Our government is supposed to have no commitment to any religion whatsoever.

The influences for our constitution come from many sources. We took heavily from Hammurabi's Code and Romes Twelve Tables(451 BC) as our basis for civil and criminal law. The framework for our government was directly lifted from Roman Republican Law. Specifically Polybius's History of the Rise of Rome. That is where we got our system of checks and balances. All three branches. Those sources are hardly Judeo/Christian. Other influences are: The French Declaration of rights of man, British Bill of Rights, Magna Carta, Athenian Constituion by Aristotle, the Iriquois Constitution, and Yes the Bible.
The bible was a source and influence but not a primary, God given source. It is a source of order and law from one of the worlds, great, ancient cultures. Same as the Greek, Roman and Mesopotamian sources that we also used.

Last edited by Superbelt; 06-18-2004 at 09:51 AM..
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Old 06-18-2004, 09:54 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I suspect that the majority of Texas Republicans will be happy to go along with this, and that it will alienate a few while drawing the majority closer together. I don't approve of such a blatant endorsement of the connection of church and state, but I don't think that there's going to be any court order telling them to stop any time soon. Something about a mob of Atheist Republicans suing the GOP over this seems ... absurd.
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Old 06-18-2004, 10:12 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Superbelt
It wasn't a relative few. And the ones who really counted. The leaders were mostly diests. It is telling that a MAJORITY of our founders voted down this line: "Jesus Christ...the holy author of our religion." (as shown in my Jefferson Quotes). The majority of our founders wanted to keep religion out of our government. Many, despite their personal beliefs. This nation is areligious. Not athiest like communist countries. Because that is still preferential. Our government is supposed to have no commitment to any religion whatsoever.

The influences for our constitution come from many sources. We took heavily from Hammurabi's Code and Romes Twelve Tables(451 BC) as our basis for civil and criminal law. The framework for our government was directly lifted from Roman Republican Law. Specifically Polybius's History of the Rise of Rome. That is where we got our system of checks and balances. All three branches. Those sources are hardly Judeo/Christian. Other influences are: The French Declaration of rights of man, British Bill of Rights, Magna Carta, Athenian Constituion by Aristotle, the Iriquois Constitution, and Yes the Bible.
The bible was a source and influence but not a primary, God given source. It is a source of order and law from one of the worlds, great, ancient cultures. Same as the Greek, Roman and Mesopotamian sources that we also used.
The "Judeo-Christian" principles are shared by many if not all religions. It has simply become acceptable to label them as Judeo Christian. All religions share a belief in a higher power, of being good to one another, of following some sort of ethical code of conduct, of being diligent in deeds, supporting one another, of not killing, etc, etc, etc.
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Old 06-18-2004, 10:16 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Additionally, the calls in this thread to label the National Republican Party with this action are as ridiculous as me saying the DNC wants Rumsfeld killed because of the actions outlined in the below article:

Quote:
St. Petersburg Democratic club ad says 'pull trigger' on Rumsfeld
MIAMI (AP) — Florida Republicans are crying foul after a St. Petersburg Democratic club placed a full-page ad in a weekly newspaper, saying Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld should be "put up against a wall" and someone should "pull the trigger."
The ad, appearing in last Thursday's edition of the Gabber, a weekly paper covering the Pinellas County community of Gulfport, included a lengthy criticism of the Bush administration's handling of the war in Iraq and then singled out Rumsfeld.

"And then there's Rumsfeld who said of Iraq 'We have our good days and our bad days.' We should put this S.O.B. up against a wall and say 'This is one of our bad days,' and pull the trigger," the ad read under a banner "St. Petersburg Democratic Club."

"Do you want to salvage our country? Be a savior of our country? Then vote for John Kerry and get rid of the whole Bush Bunch!" The ad then directs financial donations to Kerry's campaign headquarters in Washington.

The bottom of the ad depicts an American flag and reads: "Iraq. Killed 623. Wounded 4927."

State Republican Party chairman Carole Jean Jordan called the ad "deplorable" and urged Democratic National Committee chairman Terry McAuliffe, Florida Democratic Party chairman Scott Maddox and the local party chairman to repudiate the group's statements.

"I am shocked beyond words at what amounts to a call for the assassination of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld by the St. Petersburg Democratic Club," Jordan said in a statement.

A Defense Department spokesman declined comment.

The ad listed phone numbers for club president Ken Steinke and vice president Edna McCall. Both lines were busy during repeated attempts by The Associated Press to reach Steinke and McCall for comment.

Mark Kornblau, a Kerry campaign spokesman, said the club was not working for their campaign "in any official capacity" and called for an apology.

"It is outrageous and does not in any way reflect the position of our campaign. We hope that those responsible will retract the statement, apologize for it and move on to more productive pursuits," Kornblau said.

Maddox said in a statement that the ad was "reprehensible and in poor taste" and urged its immediate removal and a formal apology.

State party spokeswoman Allie Merzer said the group is a social club chartered by the state Democratic party but does not receive funds from the state party and did not consult party before the ad was placed. She said the state party was reviewing the club's charter membership.

Ken Reichart, editor and publisher of the Gabber, with a circulation of 13,000, said the club paid $175 for the ad and has advertised in the newspaper periodically for the past two years. He considered not running the ad but chose to publish it because he felt the reference to Rumsfeld was a "figure of speech."

"I didn't get the visual of Ken Steinke, the author of the ad, standing in front of Rumsfeld with an Uzi. I got the picture of the parent saying 'Boy, I want to kill my kid.' It's just a figure of speech."

In retrospect, Reichart said he would not have published the ad because of all the attention it garnered after it appeared in the Internet's Drudge Report. In addition to 300 e-mails, Reichart said it "cost me a day's revenue. We've spent all day answering phone calls from the media."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politic...tm?POE=NEWISVA
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Old 06-18-2004, 10:24 AM   #13 (permalink)
This vexes me. I am terribly vexed.
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by onetime2
The "Judeo-Christian" principles are shared by many if not all religions. It has simply become acceptable to label them as Judeo Christian. All religions share a belief in a higher power, of being good to one another, of following some sort of ethical code of conduct, of being diligent in deeds, supporting one another, of not killing, etc, etc, etc.
But they said
Quote:
Our nation was founded on fundamental Judeo-Christian principles based on the Holy Bible. The party affirms freedom of religion, and rejects efforts of courts and secular activists who seek to remove and deny such a rich heritage from our public lives."
No the acceptable term would be basic human decency or basic human morality. These same morals are also shared by athiests by the way. The TexGOP didn't mean it as YOU said it. They meant that our country was formed based on the christian bible. They are very clearly saying we are a religious country. Not secular as we should be and were formed as. Our leading founding fathers had very harsh things to say about religion and it having any role in our government. THEY would take great offense to the TexGOP statement.
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Old 06-18-2004, 10:57 AM   #14 (permalink)
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This sums up Christianity's role in our government...

Quote:
"In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were answered. All of us who were engaged in the struggle have observed frequent instances of superintending Providence in our favor. . . . And have we now forgotten this powerful Friend? Or, do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?

I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing I see of this truth: that God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his Aid?

We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labour in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without his concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel; we shall be divided by our little, partial local interests; our projects will be confounded; and we shall become a reproach and a byword to future ages. And what is worse, mankind may hereafter, from this unfortunate instance, despair of establishing government by human wisdom and leave it to chance, war, or conquest.

I therefore beg to move that, henceforth, prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven and its blessing on our deliberation be held in this assembly every morning before we proceed to business."
--Ben Franklin

Or if you want to take another angle, if the founding fathers were split between Christian and Deist, most of them were Masons. I invite everyone to look at the back side of the 1 dollar bill and look at the eye of the watcher. At the base of the picture there is a phrase in Latin "Annuit Coeptis" which roughly translates to something along the lines of "May HE bless our undertakings".

Superbelt is only right to an extent. This country was largely held and founded on Judeo-Christian philosophy, seeing as to many of the framers and just about every citizen was of a christian denomination, if you argue this well... At any rate they were respectful enough of the Seperation because they didn't want to end up like England with all that fun Aglican shit. Plus people back then were all down with God, I don't think they ever invisioned anything like what we are going through.
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Old 06-18-2004, 11:11 AM   #15 (permalink)
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does anyone else find it odd to assume that people who identified as christian two hundred years ago would automatically back anything done in the name of any christian church today? it seems naive to act as if the church has not evolved over the last two centuries and that the interpretation of the bible that christian churches now have might be different than the popular interpretation at the founding of the USA. Science and society have changed vastly over the last two centuries and I don't think anyone is qualified to make assumption on what the founding father would think if they were alive today.
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Old 06-18-2004, 11:28 AM   #16 (permalink)
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For ANY political party to claim one religion is eventual political suicide for that party. The Prohibitionists, who in the early 1900's were strong enough to get an amendment for their cause did so in the name of "Christianity".

While in a previous post I have fought for GOD to be left in, I also argued that GOD meant ANY religion. I still hold to that.

If the Texas GOP (and trust me I feel this is the National party testing the waters.) want to proclaim themselves as the "Spiritual Party" and encompass all spiritualities and religions then that would be fine. But to deduct it down to one specific religion is wrong.

It may help them win the Bible Belt but it will cost them everywhere else. That does stink of blatant religion in politics. And that is totally wrong.

The government must encompass all religion or none. Since it is impossible to not recognize religious traditions of ALL religions then it is impossible and impractical to not recognize any. (this means recognizing holidays, wearing veils on state ID's, etc.).

Let the Texas GOP show their true colors and the National GOP follow and they will fail. The liberal Christians will even see through this as being a thinly veiled attempt by the Pat Robertson religious right as a power play. And that base will be lost for a long time.
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Old 06-18-2004, 11:29 AM   #17 (permalink)
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It is not a stretch seeing as to God actually played a role in those peoples lives, and society revolved largely around the church.
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Old 06-18-2004, 02:30 PM   #18 (permalink)
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At some point I'm going to post something more substantial to one of these threads on sep of church and state, but for now I'd like to say that in terms of my feelings about the Texas GOP trying to proclaim themselves high and mighty and in touch with JEE-sus - I don't give a flying fliggedy what any of the Founding Fathers had to say about separation of Church and State, or would say now. Not on a personal level. The fact of the matter is that I was naieve enough when I was growing up to believe that Americans saw themselves as the "melting pot" of culture, where people could come and be included. I suppose if the GOP wants to become the Christian Party for the Advent of Jesus as President, I don't really care - but it's just another reason that I wouldn't consider voting for a GOP candidate. I would almost prefer they make this statement outright, so I can point them out to friends and family. My problem isn't so much with these people, whom I would consider distasteful to say the least, but with the fact that they get elected.
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Old 06-18-2004, 02:56 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Religions:
Protestant 56%, Roman Catholic 28%, Jewish 2%, other 4%, none 10% (1989)

This is from the CIA world fact book.

Lets see 84% Christian, kinda looks like a Christian nation to me.
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Old 06-18-2004, 03:02 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Originally posted by reconmike Lets see 84% Christian, kinda looks like a Christian nation to me.
And how many of those 84% don't understand, or disagree with, the concept of separation of church and state?
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Old 06-18-2004, 03:29 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:

The Republican Party of Texas affirms that the United States of America is a Christian nation, and the public acknowledgment of God is undeniable in our history," said the platform, approved during a meeting earlier this month in Austin.
Reccon - I don't think there's any point in arguing over whether most Americans from some survey say they are Christian or not. My guess is that most people probably will default to that stance, even if they haven't seen the inside of a Church in twenty years. "Who? Jesus? Yeah, I'm down with Jesus...pass me a beer and get of the way, I can't see the T.V." As I said before, if that's the stance the Texas GOP wants to take, then far be it from me to tell they can't. I would, however, say that a statement such as " The Republican Party of Texas recognizes that the United States of America is a nation founded from traditional Judeo-Christian values, and that these views have strongly shaped our society", for example, would be quite different from " affirm that we are a Christian nation, and the public acknowledgement of God is undeniable in our history." The altered version states a fact and tip of the hat to the Christian value system, which most people might at least claim to share. The second sounds like we are a Christian nation, united under Christ and his loving example. While the "public acknowledgment" part, if it's not a recognition of the historical appearance of Jehovah's Witness, Southern Baptist's yelling on the corner, and the Mormons, I would have to say (especially after the first bit) sounds like someone wanting recognition of God from a public (government) position. Which is illegal.
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Old 06-18-2004, 04:00 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by reconmike
Religions:
Protestant 56%, Roman Catholic 28%, Jewish 2%, other 4%, none 10% (1989)

This is from the CIA world fact book.

Lets see 84% Christian, kinda looks like a Christian nation to me.
If this was a Christian nation then 100% would need to be Christian. Also I have seen figures as low as 58% Christian and as high as 93.5% all from supposed government sources (and within the las 2 years).

Here is a good article from a totally non-biased religious tolerance web site called the Ontario consultants on Religious Tolerance:

The shift away from Christianity and other organized religions:
The United States appears to be going through an unprecedented change in religious practices. Large numbers of American adults are disaffiliating themselves from Christianity and from other organized religions. Since World War II, this process had been observed in other countries, like the U.K., other European countries, Australia, Canada, and New Zealand. But, until recently, affiliation with Christianity had been at a high level -- about 87% -- and stable in the U.S.

Polling data from the 2001 ARIS study, described below, indicate that:

81% of American adults identify themselves with a specific religion: 76.5% (159 million) of Americans identify themselves as Christian. This is a major slide from 86.2% in 1990. Identification with Christianity has suffered a loss of 9.7 percentage points in 11 years -- about 0.9 percentage points per year. This decline is identical to that observed in Canada between 1981 and 2001. If this trend continues, then by about the year 2042, non-Christians will outnumber the Christians in the U.S. 52% of Americans identified themselves as Protestant.
24.5% are Roman Catholic.

1.3% are Jewish.
0.5% are Muslim, followers of Islam.
The fastest growing religion (in terms of percentage) is Wicca -- a Neopagan religion that is sometimes referred to as Witchcraft. Numbers of adherents went from 8,000 in 1990 to 134,000 in 2001. Their numbers of adherents are doubling about every 30 months. 4,5 Wiccans in Australia have a very similar growth pattern, from fewer than 2,000 in 1996 to 9,000 in 2001. 10 In Canada, Wiccans and other Neopagans showed the greatest percentage growth of any faith group. They totaled 21,080 members in 1991, an increase of 281% from.

14.1% do not follow any organized religion. This is an unusually rapid increase -- almost a doubling -- from only 8% in 1990. There are more Americans who say they are not affiliated with any organized religion than there are Episcopalians, Methodists, and Lutherans taken together. 6
The unaffiliated vary from a low of 3% in North Dakota to 25% in Washington State. "The six states with the highest percentage of people saying they have no religion are all Western states, with the exception of Vermont at 22%." 6

A USA Today/Gallup Poll in 2002-JAN showed that almost half of American adults appear to be alienated from organized religion. If current trends continue, most adults will not call themselves religious within a few years. Results include:

About 50% consider themselves religious (down from 54% in 1999-DEC)
About 33% consider themselves "spiritual but not religious" (up from 30%)
About 10% regard themselves as neither spiritual or religious. 6
for the rest of the article: http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_prac2.htm
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Old 06-18-2004, 04:15 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I'm an atheist. Personally, as long as the Constitutional barriers between church and state are respected, I have no problem with anybody saying this is a Christian nation, because it is--most people here are Christian. Just like Israel is a Jewish nation, even though not EVERY SINGLE person there is Jewish.

Although I think they're misguided and need to quit taking fairy tales seriously, I can't say I have a problem with Christians. Their extremists rant about how AIDS was made to punish gay people and dinosaur fossils were planted here by Satan. Which is stupid, but considerably better than strapping bombs to themselves and blowing up women and children, or flying passenger jets into skyscrapers.
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Old 06-19-2004, 03:27 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally posted by Superbelt
Every member of the Texas GOP deserves to be smothered with a pillow.



Bullshit revisionist historians. Our most prominent founding fathers were Deists. Which is basically that they believed in A God. But that God has no basis in any earthly religion.

First
The First Amendment
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...”

Article VI, Section 3
“...no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.”

Founding Father Quotes.








Some of our Founding Father Deists:
Thomas Paine, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams,
James Madison, Ethan Allan, Ben Franklin, Henry Dearborne, Charles Lee.
don't forget that madison (i think) in the treaty with tripoli (circa 1800, i believe) states that the US is not and was not founded as a christian nation. (anyone want to find it exactly?)

also, even if 100% of the country indentified themselves as christian, there a lots of different sects and none of them are recognized as the official religion of the country, therefore we are not a christian country.
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Old 06-19-2004, 09:05 PM   #25 (permalink)
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The nation has no official religion and that's good enough for me - there is no reason to label a country a "such and such" nation when it has no official label. Until there is (hopefully not), then it wouldn't be much sense.

I'm just a bit annoyed at the twisting of history

And irseg - i'd be careful about saying those things about other religions. Everyone who is religious wouldn't like to have their religion offended. Yes some people might not care, but I know that others don't like it when they are told their religion is wrong or worse or whatever. People often feel very strongly for their religion. It would be pretty provocative in the first place to slam another person on where they might be most sensitive.
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Old 06-20-2004, 05:29 AM   #26 (permalink)
This vexes me. I am terribly vexed.
 
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Location: Grantville, Pa
Quote:
“The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”
This is that exact quote at the treaty of Tripoli Harry. I just didn't identify it as such in my John Adams quotes.
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Old 06-21-2004, 09:31 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by onetime2
Additionally, the calls in this thread to label the National Republican Party with this action are as ridiculous as me saying the DNC wants Rumsfeld killed because of the actions outlined in the below article:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politic...tm?POE=NEWISVA
Agreed. Isn't it comforting to know that, unlike the Republican response to the Texas GOP remarks, many Democrats were quick to note that they don't "condone this kind of stupidity".

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/13/dem.ad/
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Old 06-21-2004, 09:34 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by onetime2
The "Judeo-Christian" principles are shared by many if not all religions. It has simply become acceptable to label them as Judeo Christian.
What principles, exactly, are you talking about?
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Old 06-21-2004, 10:51 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Location: NJ
Quote:
Originally posted by rsl12
Agreed. Isn't it comforting to know that, unlike the Republican response to the Texas GOP remarks, many Democrats were quick to note that they don't "condone this kind of stupidity".

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/13/dem.ad/
Claiming the foundation of the US is Christian is far from calling for the killing of a rival politician. A case can at least be made in calling the majority of founding fathers Christian. There is no validity in calling for the killing of Rumsfeld.
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Old 06-21-2004, 10:54 AM   #30 (permalink)
Cherry-pickin' devil's advocate
 
Location: Los Angeles
Yeah but do two wrongs make a right?

I don't think its that big of an issue - I just don't like others telling me what I should beleve in.

I want the government away from these issues because I don't think its their right to tell people ho to live (or encompassing everyone into the same lump) , plain and simple.
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Old 06-21-2004, 11:15 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zeld2.0
Yeah but do two wrongs make a right?

I don't think its that big of an issue - I just don't like others telling me what I should beleve in.

I want the government away from these issues because I don't think its their right to tell people ho to live (or encompassing everyone into the same lump) , plain and simple.
I never said two wrongs make a right. I specifically said that anyone making sweeping generalizations about the National GOP based on the actions of the Texas GOP was wrong and I provided an extreme example to drive the point home.
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Old 06-21-2004, 11:17 AM   #32 (permalink)
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I agree that i don't think its right to make a sweeping generalization but then again I don't think its right to make one right back.
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Old 06-21-2004, 11:18 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zeld2.0
I agree that i don't think its right to make a sweeping generalization but then again I don't think its right to make one right back.
How did I make one right back?
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Old 06-21-2004, 11:22 AM   #34 (permalink)
Cherry-pickin' devil's advocate
 
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I didn't word that well but I'm saying even if its to proe another point, you're still using a generalization. There, though now that I think about it, this little thing feels so stupid
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Old 06-21-2004, 11:26 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Location: NJ
Quote:
Originally posted by Zeld2.0
I didn't word that well but I'm saying even if its to proe another point, you're still using a generalization. There, though now that I think about it, this little thing feels so stupid
I think you read that wrong. I the claims in this thread would be as ridiculous as me claiming the same thing in the case of the St Petersburg group. I did not actually say it (nor do I believe it).
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Old 06-22-2004, 07:56 AM   #36 (permalink)
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I hope one particular Texas republican looses his job in Nov. These religous nuts need to get their agenda out of my government. Take it back to your church.
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