tecoyah

It seems having your kill mounted has gone to a new level. Is it just me....or is this not only really tacky, but somewhat childish as well.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...644112,00.html

While I can understand a certain pride in accomplishing a task you set before yourself, perhaps a bit of humility and remorse would be appropriate, rather than gloating. This man is My president.

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Asuka{eve}

kind of weird.

HarmlessRabbit

I don't like Bush, I'm definitely not voting for him, but I don't see anything wrong with this at all.

Bush risked his whole presidency on taking out Saddam, and he has a souvenir of that now courtesy of the guys who caught him.

I mean, it's not like Bush has Saddam's left ear mounted on a plaque, what's the big deal?

ARTelevision

I feel like HarmlessRabbit feels.
But of course I do like the President.

It's a lot better than having Monica in that room, IMO.

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pocon1

History will bear out whether Bush did the right thing, but if I were in his shoes, and believed what he believed, then what he did was appropriate and cool. I don't have problem with it, I just hope he did it for the right reasons.

Rodney

Why? Both were trophies for men who should have been, but weren't, above bravado and/or privilege. Or at least have been smart enough to avoid the appearance of either.

cthulu23

As far as I can recall, Monica was not seized as a war souvenir, so I don't understand the comparison.

Aside from that, I don't see anything strange with this sort of memento. Hell, I'd probably keep it, too.

HarmlessRabbit

The gun is kept in the same room that Clinton had his um "not sex" with Monica in.

smooth

From the thread title, and the experiences I've had with Oregon hunters, I actually thought it was going to be something like this!

I thought it was trite, however, to throw the jab in about Clinton. A bit strange that ART echoed it, in my opinion.


In regards to the thread, I would keep the gun too. Pretty sure I would. Why not?

In terms of humility and all that, I guess the Times didn't have to report what they found out. I didn't see Bush bragging about it on TV or anything.

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analog

Sounds a bit like a childish song, "nyah nyah nyah, we caught youuuuuuu we caught youuuuuuuuu ha-ha-ha-HA-HA-ha."

*shrug*

i don't really care, just seems odd.

Asuka{eve}

I wonder who is next!

onetime2

It's not unlike a sword taken from a defeated opponent. I see nothing wrong with it. If the shoe was on the other foot and Saddam was the victor I wonder what his souvenir would be? Hell, had he succeeded in assasinating the first President Bush I suspect he would have been ecstatic to mount the pieces left over to his wall.

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tecoyah

I am sure you are correct in this. Guess I had just hoped we were somehow.....Above this kind of attitude.

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nanofever

Bush, thinking like Saddam but with a little bit more tact.

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onetime2

I guess I don't see keeping a weapon as some morally offensive act. Museums are full of such things. If, perhaps, the establishment of Iraq as a successful Democracy in the Middle East changes the course of history in the region (obviously no one will know for a long time but...) it would be a historically significant museum piece I would think.

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OFKU0

So many things came into my mind when I read that, some funny, some not so funny. The line that struck me was that he apparently was very proud of it. I would say that small things amuse small minds, but I think I'll refrain.

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DelayedReaction

Above what kind of attitude? Celebrating victory is a barbaric act? The man was presented with a significant artifact representing the defeat of an enemy. Was he supposed to send it back?

I'm not voting for him, but it certainly isn't because he keeps mementos. And that cheap shot at Clinton was pretty pathetic.

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tecoyah

Above the attitude that War....is in any way something to be celebrated. There is no Joy in destruction.

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Hwed

So troops who risked their lives on a daily basis and caught Saddam honored George Bush with a gift... what do you expect him to do, toss it in the garbage?

cthulu23

Of course you are right, but the taking of souvenirs from the battlefield by soldiers is an ancient tradition. Let's just be glad it was a pistol and not a necklace made from human ears.
War does strange and horrible things to people.

Wax_off

I guess the thing that gets me is how pettty it is. Hell, they captured the guy hiding in a HOLE after being trapped there by some enemies and sold out to the US.

It's not like it was a pistol taken in battle. What's to be proud of???

MSD

If I was in office, and the military of which I was Commander in Chief captured a man who was responsible for war crimes and human rights atrocities, and that man was holding a weapon, a symbol of the violent acts that he committed, I would proudly hang that weapon on my wall as a reminder of why I was doing my job, to protect those people who would have died had I not taken action. To do otherwise would be an insult to those who captured an evil dictator and presented me with this tropy and reminder of why we are there.

The point at which I may differ from Bush is that after leaving office, I would present the pistol to either the Smithsonian or an Iraqi museum, where it would belong.

Boo

Having the gun is theft. If a US soldier brought the gun home it would be a court martial offense.

The gun belongs to the Saddam until the Iraqi people try him and find him guilty. They can auction it off or whatever they choose.

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Wax_off

Although I don't know this for sure, it seems very unlikely that this gun is a personal object of Saddam and therefore not a symbol of anything. If it were a gold plated, engraved gun, then sure, it's a valid trophy, like the personal sword of an opponent would have been. But if the opponent had droped his weapon and picked up the sword of a common footsoldier before he was killed, the footsoldiers sword wouldn't be a valid trophy.

I think it's just a hunk of metal and doesn't mean squat.

Superbelt

http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/StateLaws.aspx?ST=DC

It's illegal to own a handgun in DC unless it was registered prior to 1976.

Is Bush breaking the law :O

Superbelt

Hope he went through the background check first. Transfer of ownership requires it.

Also, DC prohibits firemarms from being gifts

onetime2

Excellent post MrSelfDestruct. I agree completely with the first paragraph. While I would probably do the same as you in the second paragraph, I wouldn't hold it against him if he kept it to add to his Presidential library or for it to be passed on to a museum after his death.

As far as the rest of the posts now accusing him of breaking the law with regard to gun ownership, theft from the Iraqi people (I guess they should hold a referrendum whenever they want to destroy captured arms caches too, ehh?), transfer of ownership violations, etc. Come on. It's insinuations and assertions like these that give the impression that the posters just "hate Bush" and nothing he can do is "right" or "legal". I can only hope these were made in jest as they are ridiculously petty.

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Superbelt

Yes, in jest. I did post the little devil hamster at the end for a reason. I was being "impish" with my response
I could care less either way that Bush has Saddams old gun. That stuff was just something I though was funny about the situation as I was catching up this morning.

roachboy

there is a level of bushworld that is just funny

that bush would enjoy having a talisman like hussein's gun around is funny.

the decision to stuff a matador bandana down the front of bush's very military jump suit for the photo op on the aircraft carrier--you know, the picture that would have been everywhere, in every commercial, had anything about the iraq war been rational---had the "mission" actually been accomplished---that is funny.

the decision made by the americans to cover up picasso's "guernica" during powell's sad dog and pony show before the un security council in the run-up to colonial war---that was, in a twisted way, funny.

what you can assemble by connecting these and other lovely symbolic moments---if you see in them moments of unwitting confession on the part of the administration concerning the nature of their worldview---is not funny.

could an entire country have been conned into a war motivated by the desire to castrate saddam hussein? what more obvious confirmation of that motive could you ask for than the mounting on a wall off the signfier of masculine power, hussein's gun?

flintstone thinking for a flintstone world.

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onetime2

I honestly had no clue what the hell that thing was. Thanks for clearing it up.

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KillerYoda

Bah, he was born in Connecticut, blame them.

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