Who's Going to Win the Canadian Prime Minister Election - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

matthew330 · 06-02-2004, 11:07 AM

Who cares?

Charlatan · 06-02-2004, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by matthew330
Who cares?

A shining example to one and all on how to post on the TFP. Bravo, my firend, bravo.

Daval · 06-02-2004, 01:03 PM

I took the quiz and came back the EXACT opposite of Charlatan

# Stephen Harper Leader of the Conservative Party of Canada (score = 100)
# Paul Martin Leader of Liberal Party of Canada, Prime Minister of Canada (score = 100)
# Gilles Duceppe Leader of the Bloc Quebecois (score = 77)
# Jack Layton Leader of the New Democratic Party of Canada (score = 69)

Yakk · 06-02-2004, 01:21 PM

I ran into one of those quote pages, and I decided to point out precicely why I am uncomfortable with Harper becoming PM of Canada.

From good old Preston Manning's mouth: (he founded Reform 1.0 as a split-off of the old PC party)

Quote:

"Stephen [Harper] had difficulty accepting that there might be a few other people (not many, perhaps, but a few) who were as smart as he was with respect to policy and strategy."

Former Reform Party founder and leader Preston Manning on Stephen Harper in his memoirs.

The idea that you know more than simply everyone else is a dangerous one. And when you have former PC-party leaders saying that a Liberal is the better choice...

Quote:

"In a sense, people are so enraged at the Liberal government, that they're giving Stephen Harper and his government a bye. They should take a look at what he proposes."

Former Progressive Conservative leader Joe Clark, April 26th 2004, accusing Conservative Leader Stephen Harper of harbouring a "hidden" agenda. Reported in the Globe and Mail.

Now, to some who consider the PC's and the Liberals to be indistinguishable, and want a hard-core Conservative party, such a condemnation is good for Harper. But, to most people, it should highlight exactly how much the Conservative party is Reform 3.0, and not the party which is dismantled and name it stole.

He's a regionalist:

Quote:

"Much about the Canadian Alliance is worthy of support, and a large number of Canadians do support it. But the CA will be under considerable pressure to rid itself of any tinge of a Western agenda or Alberta control. This we must fight."

Stephen Harper, now leader of the Conservative Party, in "It is time to seek a new relationship with Canada," December 12th, 2000.

The apparatus of the Reform party is full of crackpots:

Quote:

"Rob is a true reformer and a true conservative. He has been a faithful supporter of mine and I am grateful for his work."

Stephen Harper endorsing Calgary West Conservative MP Rob Anders, who in 2001 called Nelson Mandela "a Communist and terrorist."

While they have played "whack a mole" whenever someone said something that got on the news, this sort of thing makes me worried.

Harper considers people who don't support him ... well, I'll let his own words explain it:

Quote:

"You have to remember that west of Winnipeg the ridings the Liberals hold are dominated by people who are either recent Asian immigrants or recent migrants from Eastern Canada; people who live in ghettos and are not integrated into Western Canadian society."

Conservative leader Stephen Harper, in Report Newsmagazine, 2001.

When you explain away people who don't support you by catagorizing them, then dismissing them, you raise my alarm bells.

Quotes from http://www.intheirownwords.ca/harper.php

For a more intense discussion and description of Canadian politics, read
http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/33416
there are a few good, long posts, that describe the political map of Canada quite well.

Quote:

In Canada, people who are "conservative" tend to be either Burkean conservatives or neo-conservatives, with a small libertarian wing. We really lack a paleo-con element, partially because religious fundamentalism and millenarianism aren't as common up here (Canadians are predominantly Catholic or atheist/agnostic, whereas most Yanks are some variation of Protestant). There also isn't a really strong tendency towards nativism, which gives Canadian conservatism a very different feel. Conservatives are rarely in power federally in Canada, which means that they aren't really "conservative". It might be better to think of them as Whigs these days in terms of their goals, even though the actual historical members of the Canadian Whig party became the Liberals.

The "liberals" are classical 19th century liberals. Not social darwinists (which was never that common a viewpoint anyhow), but the whole "run the world rationally in order to improve the common lot" etc. schtick is the basis of their viewpoint. The Liberal Party is the institutional party in Canada, and so "liberalism" in Canada is usually more "conservative" (in the sense of wanting to maintain the status quo in regards to the institutions of Canada) than the Conservatives. In terms of actual policy, they're not unlike Third-Way Democrats, except corruption is a modus vivendi.

The NDP are a mixture of old-school organised labour and new-wave Greens, with a few Cold Warriors hanging around in the back. They tend to draw their support from unions, immigrants and the economically disadvantaged. Most "socially aware" upper and middle class people vote Liberal, not NDP. The American Green Party is a close analogue to the coalition that forms the NDP, except the NDP is mainstream in Canada. They've never composed the federal government, but they have, and still do, run provincial governments. They tend to be seen as the protest party in Central Canada, which means that anyone who doesn't want to vote Conservative or Liberal votes for them.

The Bloc Quebequois are a Quebec Separatist / Nationalist party. They used to be devoted to Quebec splitting off from Canada, but after losing two referenda on the matter, they strategically focus on securing greater autonomy for provinces in general. This usually allies them with the Conservatives (who tend to do very well provincially, and thus have an interest in increasing provincial power), though the Bloc itself is a mish-mash ideologically. It's Burkean in its defense of Quebequois tradition, but spends money pretty freely to buy votes when it has to.

Hope that makes things a bit clearer for our American chums.

the thread contains alot of discussion and clarification and the like about the post.

sherpahigh · 06-02-2004, 01:48 PM

I've got to agree with OFKU0 here. Voting for the Liberals in light of the recent scandals is just telling them that it's ok to rape us while you reward your buddies. The way they've handled this election call and it's timing with the scandal is scandolus in itself. 'Oh don't worry about the scandal at the moment...just vote us back in for now and we'll sort all that out later...' Talk about scary, Liberals pissing away my money is scary.

While I may not agree with the Conservative party all the time, I find that for the most part I agree with them one hell of a lot more than the Liberals and certainly waaay more than the NDP. Just look to at what they've done for Saskatchewan to see what an NDP government can do.

The5thCandidate · 06-02-2004, 04:05 PM

Wow, I did that test and actually got a zero for Harper. Not that that surprises me, really. If Harper wins this election then I'm getting out of Canada as soon as I possibly can.

splck · 06-02-2004, 05:06 PM

heh, I got 100 for Harper
81 for Martin
46 for Gilles Duceppe
31 for Layton
*wonders why the poll didn't ask if you are in favour of large sums of cash being given away to ad firms*

When your toilet is full of shit, you flush it.

Charlatan · 06-03-2004, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Daval
I took the quiz and came back the EXACT opposite of Charlatan

# Stephen Harper Leader of the Conservative Party of Canada (score = 100)
# Paul Martin Leader of Liberal Party of Canada, Prime Minister of Canada (score = 100)
# Gilles Duceppe Leader of the Bloc Quebecois (score = 77)
# Jack Layton Leader of the New Democratic Party of Canada (score = 69)

What I find interesting is that you scored 100 for BOTH Harper and Martin... Liberals and Conservatives aren't that far apart... not that I find that surprising.

Yakk · 06-03-2004, 06:32 AM

BTW, Americans who take that quiz might find it funny.

The right wing party wants to add in some federal government support for private-industry health care. =)

OFKU0 · 06-03-2004, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Yakk
I ran into one of those quote pages, and I decided to point out precicely why I am uncomfortable with Harper becoming PM of Canada.

I can understand your opinion but this makes me feel more uncomfortable.

http://paulmartintime.ca/cat_mediacoverage.html

Yakk · 06-03-2004, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by OFKU0
I can understand your opinion but this makes me feel more uncomfortable.

http://paulmartintime.ca/cat_mediacoverage.html

?

While I do know that the Conservative Party of Canada has no party platform on which to run, I would pretty much assume they would be pro-missile defence.

A speech by what I think is a Conservative MP:
http://www.conservatives.com/news/ar...194&speeches=1
which is pretty pro-missile defence.

Paul Martin is pro misile defence.

The only major party that is seriously anti missile defence is the NDP I think? Well, the Bloc might be, and the Greens are probably against it. And the pot party has only 2 things on their platform...

Charlatan · 06-03-2004, 09:59 AM

The Conservatives are all about making nice with the US so I would only imagine (since they don't have a platform) and given their desire to join the fray in Iraq and their pro-militarization stance in general that they would do just about whatever Uncle Sam asks regarding Missle Defence.

In my opinion this isn't getting enough play. Missle defence is a big waste of taxpayer money if I ever saw one. Trillions of dollars to be committed and they haven't proved it works let alone what having the sheild would do to global politics.

OFKU0 · 06-03-2004, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Yakk

While I do know that the Conservative Party of Canada has no party platform on which to run,.....

Well that in itself is a ridiculous statement. But then look at the Fiberals.They might as well not have a platform at all since everything they promise is bullshit, lies and excuses.

By the way, did you know that when Jean Chretien came into power, the only thing different between the Tory blue book and the Grit red book was the cover and I believe 32 pages of text. That's right.The other couple hundred pages were the Tory platform that the Liberals adopted. Don't believe me though, look it up.

Finally, tune into CBC and you will see pundits on a daily basis speaking of the Liberals grasping at straws basically running on the Tory platform to once again suck in Canadians for the 4th kick in the head.

And the Conservatives have no platform,...Yesssh. If they don't then the Liberals certainly don't either.

Yakk · 06-03-2004, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by OFKU0
Well that in itself is a ridiculous statement. But then look at the Fiberals.They might as well not have a platform at all since everything they promise is bullshit, lies and excuses.

I meant they had not policy convention. They don't have policies on most issues (aka, a platform), because they never got around to decide, as a party, what their policies are.

There are a few de-facto policies, but no set of positions that I could actually read and report back on.

OFKU0 · 06-03-2004, 11:24 AM

I understand. Over the next 3 weeks I'm sure all the parties will be letting loose on every issue. It's never good for anyone (or political party) to blow ones load to soon.

Charlatan · 06-03-2004, 12:03 PM

You can't really compare the Progressive Conservative to party the Conservative party. Taking the Progressive out of their name should give you a very big clue why there is a difference...

silent_jay · 06-10-2004, 06:01 PM

Cheryl Gallant is making things harder on Harper with comments like this:

Quote:

that the killing of American Nick Berg in Iraq was "absolutely no different" from the abortions performed in Canada over the last 35 years.

here's the rest of the story:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...String;@f6ddd9

Really though politicians putting their foots in their mouths how odd.

And she is my MP, thank god I didn't vote the useless thing in, I only hope that she doesn't win a second term, but then again there isn't much better out there.

Locke7 · 06-11-2004, 06:10 AM

Well, I should start with the fact that I am a conservative American (some of you are going to stop reading right now

) Anyways I took your test, and although I had no idea about some questions (how many Annual holidays do you get in the first place??), a lot of the issues we face here in America. Anyways, this was just for fun, I've been very interested in the Canada and Canada/America threads on this board. I'm from Minnesota and travel to your country usually once/twice a summer.

Stephen Harper Leader of the Conservative Party of Canada (score = 100)
Paul Martin Leader of Liberal Party of Canada, Prime Minister of Canada (score = 39)
Jack Layton Leader of the New Democratic Party of Canada (score = 22)
Gilles Duceppe Leader of the Bloc Quebecois (score = 9)

Don't flame me, I'm very fiscally conservative

Charlatan · 06-11-2004, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by silent_jay
Cheryl Gallant is making things harder on Harper with comments like this:

that the killing of American Nick Berg in Iraq was "absolutely no different" from the abortions performed in Canada over the last 35 years.

Really though politicians putting their foots in their mouths how odd.

And she is my MP, thank god I didn't vote the useless thing in, I only hope that she doesn't win a second term, but then again there isn't much better out there.

What's amazing is that in the last election, saying things like this lost Stockwell Day the election. This is getting very little play.

It just convinces me more and more that the media do not have any agenda (left or right) but rather they pick up a story and run with it... Last election the story was what an idiot Stockwell Day was... This time it is the "Great Liberal" collapse. The end result is that we end up talking about "the story" and rarely about this "issues".

That's really unfortunate.

silent_jay · 06-11-2004, 11:16 AM

This comment by Ms. Gallant has hardly any airplay, even in her constiuency, which is where I live.

I tried to have her help me solve a work related problem a few months ago (I was working as an intern for the government), and all that I got was a personal assistant who had her head up her ass. The assistant told me she would call me back in an hour, and that was 4 or 5 months ago.

I hope people remember what happened the last time Gallant won the riding where I live, AECL laid off hundreds of people, and they tried to privatize the supply chain for the CF.

I still don't know who I'm going to vote for but Alliance Conservative whatever they are calling themselves they will never get my vote.

You are right, the politician putting their foot in their mouth usually ends up being the story instead of the issues that concern people, but that is the world of politics.

I've watched quite a few interviews with Liberal, Conservative, and NDP candidates all in the same place, and my god they are children. They piss and moan and talk over each other, and finally when a question is about to be answered all 3 will start arguing, so you never get to here the answer. Maybe we should let children campaign because that is all the candidates are.

james t kirk · 06-14-2004, 07:00 PM

I am voting for Paul Martin.

Note, I said I am voting for Paul Martin, not the liberals.

Why?

Cause I think he has done a damn fine job of running the economy for the last 10 years. He has balanced the budget year after year after 8 years of record breaking deficits with the conservatives (exactly where did that money go??)

He has paid down the debt and will continue to do so.

Unemployment is good, inflation is in check.

You don't screw with a sound economy as far as I am concerned AND I don't like Harper's conservative stance on social issues one bit.

The man (Harper) is doing everything he can to hide his social agenda. Plus, I would like to know how he (Harper) plans to increase spending, decrease taxes, and balance the budget?

Martin's biggest gaff to date - calling an election in re-run season. Seriously, This hour has 22 minutes would have skewered Stephen Harper, but they can't because they aren't filming right now. Just like last time when they went at Stockwell Day mercilessly. First it was the internet pole to get him to change his name to Doris, then there was the lampooning his jet ski appearance, then the niagara river thing.

22 minutes made Day and the CA look like a bunch of fools.

Yakk · 06-15-2004, 01:07 PM

So, a friend of mine looked into some election predictions. Note that with 27% of the electorate "may change their minds before election day", these numbers are not set in stone....

The prediction was roughly the same number of seats for the liberals and the conservatives. The Bloc would get 55-odd and the NDP 28-odd.

This means the viable majorities would be:
Liberal+Conservative
Conservative+Bloc
Liberal+Bloc

The only one of these with any hope of working is Conservative+Bloc.

This then leads me to my prediction: the C+B party would proceed to move revenue and powers from the Federal government to the provinces. This is about the only thing both parties would agree on.

So, they would move lots of federal taxation to the provinces, remove transfer payments, and cut all strings attached to money.

They would probably also redo the entire equalization scheme.

sherpahigh · 06-17-2004, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by james t kirk
I am voting for Paul Martin.

Note, I said I am voting for Paul Martin, not the liberals.

Are you in Paul Martin's riding? If you're not, you're not voting for him, you're voting for your liberal candidate.

Quote:

Originally posted by james t kirk

Martin's biggest gaff to date - calling an election in re-run season. Seriously, This hour has 22 minutes would have skewered Stephen Harper, but they can't because they aren't filming right now. Just like last time when they went at Stockwell Day mercilessly. First it was the internet pole to get him to change his name to Doris, then there was the lampooning his jet ski appearance, then the niagara river thing.

22 minutes made Day and the CA look like a bunch of fools.

Pretty sure Day had a lot to do with making the CA look like fools. Harper is not Day, and This hour has 22 minutes, though a funny show, I don't believe that it seriously effects how educated voters would vote.

james t kirk · 06-17-2004, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sherpahigh
Are you in Paul Martin's riding? If you're not, you're not voting for him, you're voting for your liberal candidate.

No, I am not in Paul Martin's riding, however, the leader of the party influences who one will vote for. In my case, I respect Paul Martin.

But I fear that his political legacy will be one of tragedy and bad timing. All his life he has strived to become Prime Minister something his father failed to achieve (also due to bad timing). He worked damn hard as finance minister and suffered under Chretien. If it wasn't for Martin, Chretien would have fallen flat on his face years ago. Now, Paul has the big chair and it looks like he is going to loose it thanks to Chretien. I guess Chretien got the last laugh after all.

I have to wonder if Martin looses this election if he will carry on as leader of the liberal party, or will he step down, or will the liberals pull out the long knives once again?

Quote:

Originally posted by sherpahigh
Pretty sure Day had a lot to do with making the CA look like fools. Harper is not Day, and This hour has 22 minutes, though a funny show, I don't believe that it seriously effects how educated voters would vote.

Who said anything about educated voters.

This election is a prime example of that. You have a majority of people jumping on the Conservative band wagon for no other reason than they think the conservatives are now going to win and they want to vote for the winning side.

6 mos. ago, the odds of the Conservatives winning this election were about the same as me going to the moon.

Now everyone wants to punish the liberals for adscam without thinking of the ramifications of voting for a far right party.

Charlatan · 06-18-2004, 06:00 AM

This is Mike Harris all over again... There is this uninformed jump to the Consercative bandwagon.

If voters (and I don't mean those who usually vote reform/alliance) actually asked themselves what they were looking for in a candidate they would find themselves agreeing with the platforms of either the Liberals or the NDP... instead, as usually, the "zietgeist" wins out.

Most are not making an informed choice. They are making an emotional one based on very little beyond -- I am mad at the Liberals or Someone else needs a turn...

OFKU0 · 06-18-2004, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Charlatan

Most are not making an informed choice. They are making an emotional one based on very little beyond -- I am mad at the Liberals or Someone else needs a turn...

Maybe but that's how it goes. Whether people are pissed off or want change is a good thing. It shows that Canadians actually have a heartbeat.

Face it. The Conservatives can do no worse than the Liberals. I can't understand why after countless scandals, people still gravitate to the Liberals.

Imagine if the electorate was responsible for their vote and every time the Liberals wasted billions of dollars, those who voted for them had to write a cheque to pay it back to the rest of Canadians regardless of their income bracket, payable in 30 days or you know what.. Hmmm,...wouldn't that be a thought. I would bet they wouldn't be in power long enough to cash the first series of cheques.

As for Mike Harris. Wait and see what Dolton McGuinty does in Ontario. He will make Mike Harris look like a genius. Funny to how this idiot has essential backed out of his education promises and yet not a peep from the teachers unions. Fucking stupid sheep. Just goes to show how stupid people support stupid people. Where is the outcry? Where are the protests? Oh forgot, its summer. Relaxation time for all the overpaid sloughs who actually give teaching a bad name.

Yakk · 06-18-2004, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by OFKU0
Face it. The Conservatives can do no worse than the Liberals. I can't understand why after countless scandals, people still gravitate to the Liberals.

They paid down 10% of the debt.

Do you have any clue how hard that was? 50 billion fewer dollars that Canada doesn't owe.

Just the interest on that (at, say , 3%) is over a billion dollars every single year from now until eternity.

Their plans for the future involve continueing to pay down the debt while ramping up spending. This is a smart plan.

The NDP want to stop paying off the debt.

The Conservatives want to go deeper into debt.

The Bloc want to say "neener neener".

There is about half-a-trillion more dollars to go on the Federal debt. That's 15-37 billion dollars a year we are paying for past government's fixcal idiocy.
http://www.ppforum.ca/ow/ow_p_11_25_2002.htm

Or how about fixing social security? Unlike the US, our CPP has balanced books.

But, they misspent about 3 billion total dollars in 10 years. This is a bad thing. The good things they did shouldn't be ignored, especially good things that other parties have no plans to continue.

If either the NDP or the Conservative party where planning on being fiscally responsible, that would be one thing. But, they plan on bread and circuses.

james t kirk · 06-18-2004, 01:05 PM

Yakk,

Excellent point.

To me, the debt / deficit is one of the most important things that had to be addressed when the liberals took power and they did what they said they were going to do.

Mulroney and company ran record deficits year after year after year. They made deficit financing an art form.

I believe the annual federal budget is around 170 billion dollars.

Over the last 10 years, that then translates into 1.7 trillion dollars of which the liberals wasted 3 or 4 billion. As a percent, that' s 0.17 %.

Let's put it in perspective. That's like if I give you $100,000.00 to watch and you give me back everything except 170 dollars. Am I supposed to worry about 170 dollars to the point of hating your guts??

I trust Paul Martin to run the economy like a clock. I don't trust Stephen Harper one little bit.

james t kirk · 06-18-2004, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by OFKU0
Funny to how this idiot has essential backed out of his education promises and yet not a peep from the teachers unions. Fucking stupid sheep. Just goes to show how stupid people support stupid people. Where is the outcry? Where are the protests? Oh forgot, its summer. Relaxation time for all the overpaid sloughs who actually give teaching a bad name.

Actually, McGuinty (as much as I don't like the guy) did deliver on his promise to improve education with his last budget.

If I recall properly, they are going to have some kind of specialist education consultant in every school, and they have pegged the maximum class size at 20.

When i was in primary school, the classes were usually 32 to 34 students. One year I remember 37.

Teachers have it made in the shade as far as I am concerned. They essentially work 10 months of the year and collect a pretty good salary.

OFKU0 · 06-18-2004, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by james t kirk
Actually, McGuinty (as much as I don't like the guy) did deliver on his promise to improve education with his last budget.

If I recall properly, they are going to have some kind of specialist education consultant in every school, and they have pegged the maximum class size at 20.

Well if you were informed, you would know that the MeGuinty government cannot possibly have 20 students in the classroom before 2006 if ever. That comes from the Meguinty camp.

He has also stated that it will take until 2006 to put more funding into the classroom. Hmmm,...twinkle twinkle little star,...you know the rest.

As of last week he is stalling payments (promises again) to make sure proper transportation is in place for students. Well the first one out of the gates is the Catholic school boards (at least in eastern Ontario) who don't know how grade school kids will get to school or home because there is no money for buses.

Is this where we blame Mike Harris? Hmmm,..how many billions of dollars was lost to Ontario because of Sars. Did the federal gov't help,..Nope. But as soon as a Liberal Premier was in place they earmarked money. Now THAT is respecting the public at large isn't it? Fucking fucking assholes. Thats nice. People suffer and the Liberal fuckwads play politics. Very nice. And you are scared of Stephen Harper,... BOOO.

And finally, c'mon guys. Do you really believe only 3 billion went missing federally. The gun Registery is at 2 billion alone. HRDC ring a bell.

If I were a scam artist I would watch very closely election night to see where the predominant Liberal ridings are. Actually, I don't even have to be a scam artist, just a general contractor. Then I would know where to target people who don't care about being lied to, ripped off or being made fools of. Obviously this is a goldmine where an insult is meet with a welcoming hand. And I wouldn't even have to give any party affiliation or reasoning of any sort to go in for the kill, and why should I. Obviously these people reward corruption so why would I tell them any different.

highthief · 06-19-2004, 04:32 AM

My prediction:

The Conservatives win the greatest number of seats of any party, but the Liberals form a coalition government with the NDP and Bloc with Martin as PM.

Personally, I'm voting Green.

calimehtar · 06-20-2004, 02:42 PM

the executive summary:

Yes, the liberal's are corrupt and lie. But the conservatives haven't been in power for ages. Give them a decade in government, and see what happens.

The conservatives have promised to cut social programs, massively raise spending on health military and law enforcement, and cut taxes. The only one of these you can be sure of is the promise to cut social programs. The other two can only both be true if they run a huge deficit. Therefore the conservatives are either liars or irresponsible.

The Conservative's official party stance on things that matter to me like Marijuana decriminalization, and gay marriage, is mainly worrisome because they promise a free vote, and most of their MPs (especially in the west) tend to the extreme right on social issues. I think PM is correct in leaving gay marriage to the charter of human rights since it doesn't really affect anyone but gay couples who want to get married.

I think the conservatives (probably the Bloc too) are on the right track with proposed changes to the health act. It's time for fundamental changes to the way healthcare is run - more money isn't the solution. Devolution of power to the provinces seems wise in many cases.

I like the way the Liberals are leaning in terms of the new deal for cities, though we'll have to wait until after the election to see what they really mean.

I'd like to vote Green (young blood, new ideas, technology savvy, fiscally conservative, socially liberal) but I think this time around the Liberals are going to get my vote. I'm going to hope and pray for a liberal minority government.

Charlatan · 06-21-2004, 06:56 AM

Giving the Liberals a minority goverment is the safer way to send a message.

Regardless of whether it is a C or Lib minority I suspect there will be another election call by spring or fall 2005 at the latest.

james t kirk · 06-21-2004, 01:23 PM

Right now, it's not looking good for the liberals.

Basically, a vote for the NDP, or the Green Party is a vote for Stephen Harper and the Canadian neo-cons.

silent_jay · 06-28-2004, 06:56 AM

Well I'm going to vote in a couple of hours still undecided.

I might just use my vote to vote for nobody. None of the parties really appeal to me and they are all just so damned shady, who knows.

If I vote for no one and Harper wins well then we're all screwed, Martin isn't the greatest but better than Harper, Layton needs to lose the mustache really bad it makes him look like he should be in porn.

It's going to be a rough day, what to do, what to do.

highthief · 06-28-2004, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by james t kirk
Right now, it's not looking good for the liberals.

Basically, a vote for the NDP, or the Green Party is a vote for Stephen Harper and the Canadian neo-cons.

I disagree - it's a riding by riding thing. I'm voting Green because in my riding the Conservative is going to win by a landslide anyway. If things were looking to be closer, I might vote Liberal.

Everyone needs to look at their situation riding by riding and vote accordingly.

Charlatan · 06-28-2004, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by silent_jay
Layton needs to lose the mustache really bad it makes him look like he should be in porn.

Facial hair as reason for political choice... great motivation.

james t kirk · 06-28-2004, 02:00 PM

Well, I just voted.

Did my civic duty.

cheers.

highthief · 06-28-2004, 04:35 PM

Liberals leading in the Maritimes by a 2-1 margin over the NDP and Conservatives. No big surprise. We'll see how they do in Quebec and Ontario, the king making provinces.

highthief · 06-29-2004, 04:30 AM

Looks like ONtario went Liberal and they get a minority government.

06-02-2004, 01:03 PM	#43 (permalink)
Daval Junkie Location: The True North Strong and Free!	I took the quiz and came back the EXACT opposite of Charlatan # Stephen Harper Leader of the Conservative Party of Canada (score = 100) # Paul Martin Leader of Liberal Party of Canada, Prime Minister of Canada (score = 100) # Gilles Duceppe Leader of the Bloc Quebecois (score = 77) # Jack Layton Leader of the New Democratic Party of Canada (score = 69) __________________ "It is impossible to obtain a conviction for sodomy from an English jury. Half of them don't believe that it can physically be done, and the other half are doing it." Winston Churchill

06-02-2004, 01:48 PM	#45 (permalink)
sherpahigh So Hip it Hurts Location: Up here in my tree	I've got to agree with OFKU0 here. Voting for the Liberals in light of the recent scandals is just telling them that it's ok to rape us while you reward your buddies. The way they've handled this election call and it's timing with the scandal is scandolus in itself. 'Oh don't worry about the scandal at the moment...just vote us back in for now and we'll sort all that out later...' Talk about scary, Liberals pissing away my money is scary. While I may not agree with the Conservative party all the time, I find that for the most part I agree with them one hell of a lot more than the Liberals and certainly waaay more than the NDP. Just look to at what they've done for Saskatchewan to see what an NDP government can do. __________________ "It'd be better for me if you don't understand"

06-02-2004, 04:05 PM	#46 (permalink)
The5thCandidate Crazy Location: East coast of Canada	Wow, I did that test and actually got a zero for Harper. Not that that surprises me, really. If Harper wins this election then I'm getting out of Canada as soon as I possibly can. __________________ Muthtard?! Don't let'th be thilly. Lemon, now that'th different...

06-02-2004, 05:06 PM	#47 (permalink)
splck it's jam Location: Lowerainland BC	heh, I got 100 for Harper 81 for Martin 46 for Gilles Duceppe 31 for Layton wonders why the poll didn't ask if you are in favour of large sums of cash being given away to ad firms When your toilet is full of shit, you flush it. __________________ nice line eh?

06-03-2004, 06:32 AM	#49 (permalink)
Yakk Wehret Den Anfängen! Location: Ontario, Canada	BTW, Americans who take that quiz might find it funny. The right wing party wants to add in some federal government support for private-industry health care. =) __________________ Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

06-02-2004, 11:07 AM	#41 (permalink)
matthew330 Banned	Who cares?

06-03-2004, 09:59 AM	#52 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	The Conservatives are all about making nice with the US so I would only imagine (since they don't have a platform) and given their desire to join the fray in Iraq and their pro-militarization stance in general that they would do just about whatever Uncle Sam asks regarding Missle Defence. In my opinion this isn't getting enough play. Missle defence is a big waste of taxpayer money if I ever saw one. Trillions of dollars to be committed and they haven't proved it works let alone what having the sheild would do to global politics. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

06-03-2004, 11:24 AM	#55 (permalink)
OFKU0 Junk	I understand. Over the next 3 weeks I'm sure all the parties will be letting loose on every issue. It's never good for anyone (or political party) to blow ones load to soon. __________________ " In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.

06-03-2004, 12:03 PM	#56 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	You can't really compare the Progressive Conservative to party the Conservative party. Taking the Progressive out of their name should give you a very big clue why there is a difference... __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

06-11-2004, 06:10 AM	#58 (permalink)
Locke7 Insane	Well, I should start with the fact that I am a conservative American (some of you are going to stop reading right now ) Anyways I took your test, and although I had no idea about some questions (how many Annual holidays do you get in the first place??), a lot of the issues we face here in America. Anyways, this was just for fun, I've been very interested in the Canada and Canada/America threads on this board. I'm from Minnesota and travel to your country usually once/twice a summer. Stephen Harper Leader of the Conservative Party of Canada (score = 100) Paul Martin Leader of Liberal Party of Canada, Prime Minister of Canada (score = 39) Jack Layton Leader of the New Democratic Party of Canada (score = 22) Gilles Duceppe Leader of the Bloc Quebecois (score = 9) Don't flame me, I'm very fiscally conservative

06-11-2004, 11:16 AM	#60 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	This comment by Ms. Gallant has hardly any airplay, even in her constiuency, which is where I live. I tried to have her help me solve a work related problem a few months ago (I was working as an intern for the government), and all that I got was a personal assistant who had her head up her ass. The assistant told me she would call me back in an hour, and that was 4 or 5 months ago. I hope people remember what happened the last time Gallant won the riding where I live, AECL laid off hundreds of people, and they tried to privatize the supply chain for the CF. I still don't know who I'm going to vote for but Alliance Conservative whatever they are calling themselves they will never get my vote. You are right, the politician putting their foot in their mouth usually ends up being the story instead of the issues that concern people, but that is the world of politics. I've watched quite a few interviews with Liberal, Conservative, and NDP candidates all in the same place, and my god they are children. They piss and moan and talk over each other, and finally when a question is about to be answered all 3 will start arguing, so you never get to here the answer. Maybe we should let children campaign because that is all the candidates are. __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

06-14-2004, 07:00 PM	#61 (permalink)
james t kirk Junkie Location: Toronto	I am voting for Paul Martin. Note, I said I am voting for Paul Martin, not the liberals. Why? Cause I think he has done a damn fine job of running the economy for the last 10 years. He has balanced the budget year after year after 8 years of record breaking deficits with the conservatives (exactly where did that money go??) He has paid down the debt and will continue to do so. Unemployment is good, inflation is in check. You don't screw with a sound economy as far as I am concerned AND I don't like Harper's conservative stance on social issues one bit. The man (Harper) is doing everything he can to hide his social agenda. Plus, I would like to know how he (Harper) plans to increase spending, decrease taxes, and balance the budget? Martin's biggest gaff to date - calling an election in re-run season. Seriously, This hour has 22 minutes would have skewered Stephen Harper, but they can't because they aren't filming right now. Just like last time when they went at Stockwell Day mercilessly. First it was the internet pole to get him to change his name to Doris, then there was the lampooning his jet ski appearance, then the niagara river thing. 22 minutes made Day and the CA look like a bunch of fools.

06-15-2004, 01:07 PM	#62 (permalink)
Yakk Wehret Den Anfängen! Location: Ontario, Canada	So, a friend of mine looked into some election predictions. Note that with 27% of the electorate "may change their minds before election day", these numbers are not set in stone.... The prediction was roughly the same number of seats for the liberals and the conservatives. The Bloc would get 55-odd and the NDP 28-odd. This means the viable majorities would be: Liberal+Conservative Conservative+Bloc Liberal+Bloc The only one of these with any hope of working is Conservative+Bloc. This then leads me to my prediction: the C+B party would proceed to move revenue and powers from the Federal government to the provinces. This is about the only thing both parties would agree on. So, they would move lots of federal taxation to the provinces, remove transfer payments, and cut all strings attached to money. They would probably also redo the entire equalization scheme. __________________ Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

06-18-2004, 06:00 AM	#65 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	This is Mike Harris all over again... There is this uninformed jump to the Consercative bandwagon. If voters (and I don't mean those who usually vote reform/alliance) actually asked themselves what they were looking for in a candidate they would find themselves agreeing with the platforms of either the Liberals or the NDP... instead, as usually, the "zietgeist" wins out. Most are not making an informed choice. They are making an emotional one based on very little beyond -- I am mad at the Liberals or Someone else needs a turn... __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

06-18-2004, 01:05 PM	#68 (permalink)
james t kirk Junkie Location: Toronto	Yakk, Excellent point. To me, the debt / deficit is one of the most important things that had to be addressed when the liberals took power and they did what they said they were going to do. Mulroney and company ran record deficits year after year after year. They made deficit financing an art form. I believe the annual federal budget is around 170 billion dollars. Over the last 10 years, that then translates into 1.7 trillion dollars of which the liberals wasted 3 or 4 billion. As a percent, that' s 0.17 %. Let's put it in perspective. That's like if I give you $100,000.00 to watch and you give me back everything except 170 dollars. Am I supposed to worry about 170 dollars to the point of hating your guts?? I trust Paul Martin to run the economy like a clock. I don't trust Stephen Harper one little bit. Last edited by james t kirk; 06-18-2004 at 01:13 PM..

06-19-2004, 04:32 AM	#71 (permalink)
highthief Junkie Location: Ontario, Canada	My prediction: The Conservatives win the greatest number of seats of any party, but the Liberals form a coalition government with the NDP and Bloc with Martin as PM. Personally, I'm voting Green. __________________ Si vis pacem parabellum.

06-20-2004, 02:42 PM	#72 (permalink)
calimehtar Upright	the executive summary: Yes, the liberal's are corrupt and lie. But the conservatives haven't been in power for ages. Give them a decade in government, and see what happens. The conservatives have promised to cut social programs, massively raise spending on health military and law enforcement, and cut taxes. The only one of these you can be sure of is the promise to cut social programs. The other two can only both be true if they run a huge deficit. Therefore the conservatives are either liars or irresponsible. The Conservative's official party stance on things that matter to me like Marijuana decriminalization, and gay marriage, is mainly worrisome because they promise a free vote, and most of their MPs (especially in the west) tend to the extreme right on social issues. I think PM is correct in leaving gay marriage to the charter of human rights since it doesn't really affect anyone but gay couples who want to get married. I think the conservatives (probably the Bloc too) are on the right track with proposed changes to the health act. It's time for fundamental changes to the way healthcare is run - more money isn't the solution. Devolution of power to the provinces seems wise in many cases. I like the way the Liberals are leaning in terms of the new deal for cities, though we'll have to wait until after the election to see what they really mean. I'd like to vote Green (young blood, new ideas, technology savvy, fiscally conservative, socially liberal) but I think this time around the Liberals are going to get my vote. I'm going to hope and pray for a liberal minority government.

06-21-2004, 06:56 AM	#73 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Giving the Liberals a minority goverment is the safer way to send a message. Regardless of whether it is a C or Lib minority I suspect there will be another election call by spring or fall 2005 at the latest. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

06-21-2004, 01:23 PM	#74 (permalink)
james t kirk Junkie Location: Toronto	Right now, it's not looking good for the liberals. Basically, a vote for the NDP, or the Green Party is a vote for Stephen Harper and the Canadian neo-cons.

06-28-2004, 06:56 AM	#75 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	Well I'm going to vote in a couple of hours still undecided. I might just use my vote to vote for nobody. None of the parties really appeal to me and they are all just so damned shady, who knows. If I vote for no one and Harper wins well then we're all screwed, Martin isn't the greatest but better than Harper, Layton needs to lose the mustache really bad it makes him look like he should be in porn. It's going to be a rough day, what to do, what to do. __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

06-28-2004, 02:00 PM	#78 (permalink)
james t kirk Junkie Location: Toronto	Well, I just voted. Did my civic duty. cheers.

06-28-2004, 04:35 PM	#79 (permalink)
highthief Junkie Location: Ontario, Canada	Liberals leading in the Maritimes by a 2-1 margin over the NDP and Conservatives. No big surprise. We'll see how they do in Quebec and Ontario, the king making provinces. __________________ Si vis pacem parabellum.

06-29-2004, 04:30 AM	#80 (permalink)
highthief Junkie Location: Ontario, Canada	Looks like ONtario went Liberal and they get a minority government. __________________ Si vis pacem parabellum.