saltfish

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5039229/





-SF

roachboy

maybe it is a good film.
it is hard to tell, not being able to see it yet.

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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

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omid

yay. i knew it would too.. just because of how gripping bowling for columbine was.

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Kick butt buzz-cut dickheads who didn't like what I said.
The good times are killing me.
Jaws clenching tight we talked all night, oh but what the hell did we say?
The good times are killing me.

seretogis

I am sure that it is an award-worthy piece of fiction.

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seretogis - sieg heil
perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost
no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

Jeff

They're certainly not truthful (though annoyingly portrayed as the truth), but Moore does know how to make a good film.

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For those who believe in God, most of the big questions are answered. But for those of us who can't readily accept the God formula, the big answers don't remain stone-written. We adjust to new conditions and discoveries. We are pliable. Love need not be a command or faith a dictum. I am my own God. We are here to unlearn the teachings of the church, state, and our educational system. We are here to drink beer. We are here to kill war. We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us.
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BigGov

Hey, I found a typo:

“Fahrenheit 9/11” was the first "documentary" to win Cannes’ prestigious Palme d’Or since Jacques Cousteau’s “The Silent World” in 1956.

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One day an Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman walked into a pub together. They each bought a pint of Guinness. Just as they were about to enjoy their creamy beverage, three flies landed in each of their pints. The Englishman pushed his beer away in disgust. The Scotsman fished the fly out of his beer and continued drinking it, as if nothing had happened. The Irishman, too, picked the fly out of his drink but then held it out over the beer and yelled "SPIT IT OUT, SPIT IT OUT, YOU BASTARD!"

Amethyst

Has anyone seen bowling for columbine? If so how was it? And did I hear right that they might not release Fahrenheit 9/11 In the U.S.? Well, I guess I should have finished reading the article at the top before I posted but I am glad I caught it before I hit Submit Reply.

tecoyah

I find it quite interesting that you already assume it to be full of lies, having yet to see it. While I am sure M.Moore has put his usual twist into the film, much of his earlier films were also full of dreadful facts. Some may simply wish to deny them as real, your perogative.

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

hammer4all

This article was more amusing: Moore tells Bush to watch the pretzels

Stompy

It was a good movie. Most people who dislike it are those who dislike Moore because he's liberal and because he so openly attacks Bush.

It'd be like if Ann Coulter made a documentary on how Bush is the most perfect president in our nation's history. Most of it would be based on facts that you could verify, however, someone somewhere could provide a theory on how or why it's wrong, yadda yadda (such is politics).

It definitely opens your eyes to certain truths about the country that you might not have realized before.

For example, local news reports generally report on nothing but murders/killings for the first half of the broadcast, which in turn makes people more afraid than they really should be. It gives this false impression that things are worse than how they actually are.

There's this certain part of the movie where he has this strange conspiracy theory that Dick Clark was (in some way) part of the reason why a 6 year old brought a gun to school and shot another child. IMO, that's just as closed minded and ridiculous as someone saying Marilyn Manson was partly at fault for Columbine.

Aside from that, it's a pretty informative (and factual) movie. Granted, someone will come along and give counter arguments against it, but that's kinda expected in politics. You just have to draw your own conclusions

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I love lamp.

Amethyst

Thanks for your opinoin.

Stompy

She's a conservative journalist/author. Conservatives love her just like liberals like Moore/Al Franken/etc..

Not 100% sure if *everything* is the truth, but most if it I've verified as well as experienced (Detroit news reports are definitely fear-mongering media).

If you ask a conservative, they'll most likely point you to http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/, which, as I said before, is expected in politics. You present a truth, someone will present some facts to counter that truth, but in turn someone presents facts to counter THAT, etc.. a never ending cycle

I believe that most of what was presented was truthful, but I also kept in mind that there's two sides to every story.

Put it this way: he wouldn't have the fame/reputation he has if it was BS. Naturally a conservative will scoff at the film if they were to watch it.

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I love lamp.

Sparhawk

I wonder how many who bash these movies have actually seen the two? Regardless, I won't be seeing it, documentaries bore me.

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"In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

WarWagon

You're the fuckin' man.

Moore's worse than Limbaugh, except Limbaugh is actually funny to listen to. Moore is just an obnoxious whiner whose material is the equivalent to having Bush's picture pinned onto a dart board. There's my opinion.

HeAtHeN

I love Micheal Moore and his work. But whether you like him or not.... isn't not releasing a movie against the US constitution .... its called free speech I think

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Lebell

Err, no.

No one is preventing MM from releasing his movie.

It is up to him to find a distributor (which of course he will).

The US Constitution however does not FORCE anyone to distribute his movie.

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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

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HeAtHeN

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HarmlessRabbit

I'm looking forward to the movie. I had some problems with Bowling for Columbine, so I'm interested to see if Michael Moore has cleaned up his act factually or not.

Lebell

If you look, you'll find that this has already been covered, including the fact that Moore knew a year ago that Disney didn't want to distribute his film, but he went ahead to generate publicity.

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...threadid=54631

That being said, Disney is under no legal or moral obligation to distribute ANY film.

__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

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phyzix525

so did this surprise anyone? I mean a bunch of hollywood liberal types get together with a bunch of frenchies and they give out an award to a "documentory" that is anti-bush. OMG I just can't believe it, it was such a surprise. Do you think anyone else even had acceptance speeches ready?

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It's hard to remember we're alive for the last time
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It's hard to remember when it takes such a long time

Amethyst

What problems did you have with Bowling for Columbine? I am going to get the movie and watch it tonight. I am really interested in watching it.

Mehoni

I just wanted to show you this: http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/

Sure, it'son his site, but it links to sources not on his site.

__________________
There seem to be countless rituals and cultural beliefs designed to alleviate their fear of a simple biological truth - all organisms eventually perish.

Lebell

www.bowlingfortruth.com

deals with Moore's "response" to his critics.

__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

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assilem

Just like BFC.

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The mother of mankind, what time his pride
Had cast him out from Heaven, with all his host
Of rebel Angels

seretogis

Do not confuse out-of-context statistics with facts.

__________________
seretogis - sieg heil
perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost
no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

tecoyah

I didn't, I was following the politics long before Mr. Moore made his films, and was aware of much of the "facts" without a Hollywood take. But, thanks for your concern.

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

maximusveritas

Moore's movies may not technically be documentaries, but that doesn't mean they aren't truthful or factual. They just present the facts from a biased viewpoint with significant editorializing tacked on.
I think a good comparison for Moore's work would be Fox News. Both purport to objectively tell the truth, but we all know that both selectively choose the information they present in order to push their respective agendas. They'll both occasionally even get facts wrong or present unverified stories. This doesn't mean they are liars or that there is nothing to be gained by watching them.

I think most of us here are informed enough to see Moore's films and Fox News for what they are. The problem is that there are plenty of people out there who are complteley uninformed and there is the fear that they will be unable to critically consider what they see on the screen and just take it to be the whole truth when there is usually more to the story.
I'm going to reserve judgement on this particular movie until I see it.

tecoyah

Inspired, truly inspired.

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

djtestudo

The problem with a comparison like that is Fox News, as well as a "liberal" network like CNN or newspaper like the Washington Post, has an obligation to report the news as fact. Any editorializing is generally done seperate from the news reports. They would lose all credebility as journalists if they purposely mixed the two.

Moore, being a filmmaker and not a journalist, doesn't have the same responsibility as a place like Fox News, and therefore can twist the facts any way he wishes to prove his point.

Despite my Republican leanings, I trust the actual news coming from the Post, or the local Baltimore Sun, or CNN, and other sources considered liberal. That's because I know they seperate the news and opinions enough to identify what is what. If Moore was able to say, "Here's the facts, now here's my opinion on what they mean," and still be entertaining, then most people would have less of a problem with him.

__________________
"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

mokle

I can't wait to see his new movie. Bowling for Columbine was a great movie. And sure there are haters, there always will be. Just seems to be the haters that go out of their way to make their opinion known. Seems desperate.

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Mokle
"Your hands can't hit what your eyes can't see" -Ali

saltfish

I, personally, laugh at the pseudo-intellectuals that beleive Mr. Moore's films are factual. ...heh... It seems as though these same people take whatever this man says as gospel. ...funny, that is exactly what Moore wants you to do.

No... ...he's not in this business to create a scene, he really wants us to know whats going on.

/sarcasm

-SF

Amethyst

I went to rent this tonight and it was rented out and due back tomorrow. So, I well have questions soon.

silent_jay

I love Micheal Moore, he is the in your face, I don't care what the government thinks kinda person this world needs, Bowling For Columbine, what a masterpiece, the man gets to the bottom of things, and is usually right, which has been proven because it can't pick up a distributor, booo don't be pushed around by big brother

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mokle

If you're going to quote me, please make your reply have some sort of relevance to my post. Thanks.

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Mokle
"Your hands can't hit what your eyes can't see" -Ali

Lebell

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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

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BigGov

I bet this thread will be closed by...5:48 PM CST Tuesday. Who else wants to take a guess?

__________________
One day an Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman walked into a pub together. They each bought a pint of Guinness. Just as they were about to enjoy their creamy beverage, three flies landed in each of their pints. The Englishman pushed his beer away in disgust. The Scotsman fished the fly out of his beer and continued drinking it, as if nothing had happened. The Irishman, too, picked the fly out of his drink but then held it out over the beer and yelled "SPIT IT OUT, SPIT IT OUT, YOU BASTARD!"

Zeld2.0

Woo i say Monday 6:53 PST!

i'll reserve judgment til i actually see it because you never judge a book from its cover

tiberry

You're all idiots, and I'm the only one that's right!!!

[Just kidding!!!] Don't ZAP me moderators!!

I think that maximusveritas has a fairly mature take on all of this...its very hard, nearly impossible to find any media source capable of presenting truly objective material.

Its simply human nature to:

1. Put a personal spin on everything based on how we perceive the "truth".

and

2. Look for someone else to DECIDE for us, what the real "truth" is. Otherwise, its as if we'd somehow be responsible...so its much easier to pile on someone elses "truth bandwagon".


The bottom line is: Nearly EVERYONE has THEIR OWN truths - some may find that their truths resemble others, some may not. You kind of have to judge these types of things based on how well the "artist" paints the picture, not for the content - just how well its portrayed. In that sense, MM does a fairly good job I think in painting HIS view of the world. I do not necessarily agree with him, and if you ask my more carnal opinion - I hope he explodes from eating too much - but, of course, that's just MY opinion.

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My life's work is to bridge the gap between that which is perceived by the mind and that which is quantifiable by words and numbers.

tecoyah

Actually, I think if you look at the posts above in support of Mr. Moore, you will see they do not consider his productions gospel. Most of the replys, admit failings in the facts and focus instead on "like" for the movies. It seems the only blanket remarks (those that are straight black and white) are from the detractors.
Personally I very much enjoyed the hot seat portrayal of Charlton Heston in "Bolwling", I hope that wasn't CGI.lol

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

Hwed

I won't read all the tripe above, because a kook like Moore isn't worth taking seriously, even if he didn't make up his own material.

Moore is a fraud, as evidenced in the link below:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conten...4/127ujhuf.asp