*head in hands* I weep for what was once a proud country, of civilized, and compassionate people. If this is truly what we have become, America is destroying itself.

I still don't get it - why are we comparing ourselves to the lowest?

It gives no justification either way you put it - since when did our own people justify our actions by comparing us to the worst of human society?

And you are commenting to... what, exactly?

Why should we be compassionate of people whose stated goal is to kill every last one of us? What bothers me is that there are a lot of soft-headed people in this country who are so far out of touch with reality that they refuse to recognise that some people really are evil.

I'm just confused how these people are ALL guilty. I don't believe that all (if any?) have been charged with criminal offences. So who has the right to act as jury, judge and executioner? They might be nasty people but still everyone has a right to a fair trial where they are innocent until proven guilty. I think this is especially important when you are trying to form a new democracy, it hardly installs confidence.

All the people trying to kill us are guilty by definition. What's hard to understand about that?

How do YOU know who was guilty? Do you have evidence of it happening? All you know is what the media is telling you.

You may have formed your opinion and that's fine but just remember that nothing isquite so clear cut.

Putting people into groups they appear to be in just because they were in the 'vicinity' of someone else who is guilty is not the same as a rigorous trial. In the trial all sides have rights as opposed to a one-sided beating from your accuser which means you eventually admit 'everything' out of shear terror.

Yes. In the USA and in Iraq.

Your argument that everyone in that prison who was tortured was guilty, and therefore deserved to be tortured, is sad on several levels. It's really disappointing to me that (i'm assuming) a USA citizen wouldn't see the problem here.

Many of the people in the prison were just rounded up during sweeps. The USA let hundreds go last week. They are letting hundreds go again this week.

Not everyone in prison is guilty, even in the USA. There are many cases of people being executed for crimes they did not commit.

In any even, even if people are criminals, they should not be tortured. Everyone is entitled to due process and freedom from torture, and the USA has signed international agreements to this effect.

Er, excuse me, but where did I say or imply that?

I don't, and I didn't suggest that I did. I said what I said, and nothing more. Read what's there. I said nothing about people in prisons, nor anything about torture.

If the "reality" you claim I am out of touch with, is indeed the one you seem to portray, I will be perfectly content to dwell in my little fantasyland. Should I ever accept the blatant hatred, and disregard for human life you condone, I will no longer feel the need to interact with society.
You are welcome to your opinion, your reality if you will. Fortunately it is still in the minority and has yet to become the standard belief in this country. You would probably get along quite well with the very people you fear, you have a militant mentality, and that is a pity.

i love when people think we attacked some innocent country......



its Iraq...not Canada....

/shrug despite all the twisting and all...

My question still stands - why do we compare ourselves to Saddam lately? "Its better than Saddam" - well of course we *should* be better than everyone but to start using Saddam as our best comparison?

Uhh where has our country gone...

Agreed, and well said.

I didn't say anything about you. If anything, you've included yourself in the group I mentioned by your assumption of what I was saying. It's not all about you, dude.

(edit) The reality I described is the one these people are coming from. If you don't understand that, you don't know what you're talking about. Get educated before posting again on this topic.

Note that I'm not a person who said that embarassing people is as bad as cutting their heads off.

Welp this thread sure went down fast...

Keep it in check or its gone.

Denim, perhaps you could lay out your opinion specifically about torture, Iraq, and "evil". I'm quite unclear whether you want to kill everyone in Iraq for guilt-by- association or not.

Well, let's start with what I've said already.

1) Two cultures are not equivalent.
2) We violated the Geneva Convention.
3) I'm not happy with people who behead others, especially Jews, being one myself.
4) We're not perfect. We are, however less imperfect than certain others.
5) Some people really are evil.
6) People trying to kill us are guilty. I said nothing about the rest.
7) Softheaded people don't realize to stop bending over when they start getting fucked up the ass.

What's unclear?

OTOH, if the Highlander beheads an Immortal, that's okay.

(edit) Unless it's Richie. That's over the line.

Nothing. It's quite clear that you want to insult people who disagree with you, not have an honest discussion.

Oic. Sorry you feel that way, but I've not included anyone specific in that group.

To which you replied.

To which I replied

Finally.

I believe several people (including me) may have picked up on the fact that to the question of these people in prisons are not all guilty, you decided to say "All the people trying to kill us are guilty by definition."

I'm sorry, your point of view just confuses me. As the thread is regarding the difference between the nude pyramids and the beheading I don't think it's right to just say that the nude pyramid was fine (and not as bad) because the bloke at the bottom left was guilty of something, maybe.

Please don't take this as any attack on yourself I'm just interested to what you actually think and make sure I understand you totally.

I am unfortunately, no longer interested. The subject needs further discussion , but the company is making it difficult. final note:

It's ALL bad.

I said nothing about people in prisons. That seems to have confused you, yes. You really should read what's there, rather than what you're expecting to see. I said people trying to kill us are guilty by definition. I said nothing about whether they'd been captured or not, or about what'd been done to them if they had been.

The topic is people in prisons. If you're saying things like "All the people trying to kill us are guilty by definition" and the topic is about prison abuse, then we're going to assume that you're talking about people in prison.

I'm tired of your word games and your lack of respect for the people you are discussing politics with. Moving on.

Nope. The topic is "which is worse, this or that". That explains much about your arguments, that you weren't clear on the concept.

It's mutated a bit since then, too. What you're tired of is immaterial. No one forced you to post.

Sorry, folks. We've digressed considerably.