popo

I'm not going topost a link to it but it can be found anywhere on the web. I seriously feel nauseous after watching it.

My absolute deepest sympathies to the family. They must be tormented.

Asuka{eve}

Give us linky

slvrnblck

You can download it at www.ogrish.com or at www.goregasm.com

It is very disturbing and graphic though.

Zeld2.0

ugh there goes my dinner

irateplatypus

umm... i'm pretty sure my school's net access is going to block both those sites. but man, it made me nauseous just reading about it earlier.

__________________
If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

~ Winston Churchill

OFKU0

Totally abhorent. Good God, what fucking kind of world are we living in. How fucking sad.

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" In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.

JBX

Thank god he wasn't humiliated
/sarcasm

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"Youth and Strength is no match for Age and Treachery"

twotimesadingo

i honestly can't say i'm against this. i am truly saddened and angered that it was an american non-combatant...

... but, this is a war. we may not want it - i am almost entirely against bush's policy when it comes to the iraqi situation - but the groups of rebels and hussein-loyalists certainly also see it as a war. and, sad though it may be, they are doing everything in their means to win this war; this, of course, includes attempts to destroy morale. i'd say this video is a good representation of something that is effective in this regard.

*EDIT*: yay for spelling

__________________
I'll be the one to protect you from your enemies and all your demons.
I'll be the one to protect you from a will to survive and voice of reason.
I'll be the one to protect you from your enemies and your choices, son.
They're one and the same I must isolate you, isolate and save you from yourself."
- A Perfect Circle

irateplatypus

why not be saddened that this was anybody at all?

__________________
If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

~ Winston Churchill

Paq

ok
it's taken me a while to absorb this

and it sickens me to no end.

seriously sickening.

Enough that would make someone as anti-war as me just throw up my hands and say, "Fuckit, bomb them all" I dont' mean it, but after seeing that, i'm disgusted enough to think it and to think the world would be better off if it happened...

Then the more rational side comes out and admits that it's only an isolated group, it's a terrible act, etc.

However, i don't have a clue what they were thinking. America has a history of going slightly ballistic when we have something sickening happening to our citizens. The alamo, french/indian wars, revolutionary war, civil war, etc show just how vicious Americans can be when set on a path of revenge and i can honestly see this whole situation spiraling out of control quickly. They may see it as a way of destroying morale, but that may strengthen the resolve of america.

Damn, that made me sick.

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Live.

Chris

starbum

I just saw the video as well. (Hi, btw, Im Mr. Lurker)

I too am sicked, enraged, and appaled. I have no words for what I just saw.


I wouldnt weep if they (those responcible) were forced to eat glass until they die.

slvrnblck

Mojo_PeiPei

No, the sick fucks who are being connected to Al-Zarqawi are the murderers.

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To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

irateplatypus

you forgot the /flamebait tag

__________________
If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

~ Winston Churchill

Date the Banana

Doesn't make much sense does it? I agree with irateplatypus, what does it matter if he was a combatant or not. No one deserves to die by beheading. (or for that matter any method of death.)
It's easy for me to say it, 'cuz I'm not there, but revenge killings just beget more revenge killings. Surely someone on both sides is aware of that?

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all work and no play make Date something something

slvrnblck

Im not trying to start a flame war or what not, trust me, but he would have been alive today if bush had not invaded Iraq. Oh dont forget about the 25000+ iraqi civilians also.

Mojo_PeiPei

Well actually by all accounts 25,000 Iraqi deaths is a slow year, if Saddam were still in power we could have expected more.

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To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

sprocket

Of course everyone likes to blame Bush for the war. Dont get me wrong, Bush wont get my vote at election time, buts its because of the "homeland security" BS that hes brought about, not the war. Everyone seems to forget that the responsibility for this war rests in the hands of one man.. and it wasnt Bush. It was Saddam. All he had to do was let the weapons inspectors go where they wanted to go. If that had happened we wouldnt have had to follow through with the threats that were made ten or so years ago after the gulf war. Thats it.. he just had to let the weapons inspectors do their thing. Then we wouldnt have had to rely on shaky intellegence to discover wether he had WMD or not.

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Remember, wherever you go... there you are.

seretogis

This statement is, for lack of a better term, idiotic. There is absolutely no way that you can know what would have happened to him if Bush had not invaded Iraq. Repeated baseless claims like this are what lead a thread to be locked.

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seretogis - sieg heil
perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost
no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

Zeld2.0

Great way for all of you to start another thread to be locked... chill y'all

And anyways, there's enough baseless statements with no evidence (statistics and facts please on numbers? probably won't find em though!) anyways /sigh

pan6467

Whoaaaa Nelly.

Opinion:noun: unproven but probale belief; 2 what one thinks of something (American Century Dictionary)

Some of you vets are giving this rookie a needless hard time.

His original post was not flame-bait or anything else.

He GAVE his opinion, he typed "in my opinion", he didn't try to start anything, he was simply stating what he felt.

It's a sad commentary on us as a society when we cannot allow a man to give his opinion, right or wrong, based on fact or fiction. It shows me we are so eager to fight we don't care about people's opinions anymore. That we need to jump on someone with a differing opinion because having their belief they pose a threat to us.

We need rookies on this board to keep it alive and flowing with new OPINION and discussions or else we face a stale and stagnant death.

In my opinion, you guys are jumping just to jump on someone. He meant nothing by it, and just expressed his point of view in a harmless way.

It is those who chose to see it as flame bait and pursue and then read into his replies what you chose to.

To be able to post your harmless opinion (as he did) is what we have men and women over there dying for. It was not racist, it attacked noone, on this board, and it is an opinion shared by many here, that feel they can no longer voice an opinion because people then choose to fight and cry and call foul a harmless belief.

Stop being so sensitive. And to be honest I know now I will be attacked as a flamer, which is sad because my intent was only to allow a man his freedom of harmless opinion.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Zeld2.0

/applaud pan6467

if the guy's not out there trolling or flaming others and wants to express his opinion, let him be if you hate it or like it

for most of us this is America where everyone can speak... take this board the same way as one can in America also for those citizens...

don't say love it or leave it, say love it all or don't love it at all (provided they're not out there to personally attack or whatever)

irateplatypus

i'm not trying to pick a fight w/ya pan...

but what is flamebait if it isn't an opinion w/out foundation? the fact that it was his opinion doesn't exclude itself from being flame material imho.

to end a short post with describing the President of the United States as the man who murdured this guy is a radical thing to say no matter which way you stand on the iraqi war. the abscence of supporting premises, the follow-up with an unsubstantiated claim of the US being responsible for 25,000+ innocent iraqi dead, and the short, shrill nature of the tone in which i read... it was clear to me that it was flame material.

my apologies to the new guy (or girl, i have no idea) if i'm out of line.

__________________
If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

~ Winston Churchill

Zeld2.0

well irateplatypus...

There are certainly people out in the world who are going to say opinions w/o foundations... but that's true on every side you look at it. It's just that, at times, people are going to overlook those who have a similar position with theirs, and are going to be annoyed at those take the opposite.

It's happened a lot to me and certainly when people post something that has little truth in it or is speculation or even if it simply irritates me, I'm going to get vocal (or sarcastic) at it.

Yes there are people who are going to think POTUS was the cause of this (and i can see their logic at times, others I can't) but on the flipside there are those who think liberals are the reason America is going down (at times i can see their thinking, other times I can't)

splck

well said pan6467.

This whole conflict is wearing down my outlook on humanity.

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nice line eh?

irateplatypus

yeah, but i'm not sure why that disqualifies it from being a flame.

i guess if you agree that it was unfounded within the context of his posts and still don't consider it flame... then we must have different definitions or threshholds for these kind of things.

oh well... sorry for the mini-threadjack and sarcasm. carry on fellas...

__________________
If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

~ Winston Churchill

Zeld2.0

to be honest i've seen a lot of it online anyways so maybe thats what skews my thinking a bit

but on the other hand /shrug i've seen it a lot on here as well

cut the guy some slack

slvrnblck

You say it is a radical thing to say, but would this man have been beheaded by these losers had it not been for Bush?? Do you want me to list sources for the 25000+ dead in iraq?? Would that make it less of flame bait?

I think you want this to turn into a flamewar just for the hell of it.

slvrnblck

Dont waste your breath, they will not listen. Also, im not that much of a rookie, ive been registered since Nov

irateplatypus

you have several unspoken premises in this statement that i disagree with. the most notable is this...

i could just as easily say that this man was beheaded by the terrorists who attacked us on 9-11. if 9-11 had never happened... the chances of the administration choosing to attack iraq/afghanistan or hop in bed w/pakistan are severely diminished.

how far do you want to go back? for my own analysis... i'll just stick with the theory that this man wouldn't have been beheaded if the guys who did it weren't sick bastards who chose to kidnap a civilian and decapitate him.

please. and yes it would. keep in mind that you're on a hunt for 25,000+ iraqi civilian dead.

it's still a sad situation... but even iraqbodycount.com tops the total out at 10,000... and i would expect their estimates to be the most liberal available.

http://www.iraqbodycount.net/editorial_feb0704.htm

on top of that... i'm not even sure how they determine who was a civilian or not. our troops are getting fired at by small children, how do you even quantify that type of threat when totalling innocent casualties?

__________________
If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

~ Winston Churchill

pan6467

OY............ Slvr, calm down man, don't make me sorry I defended you. There is opinion and then there is just saying things to start fights. I defended your right to opinion, there is no right to pick fights by flaming.

Irate even appolgized and said he jumped the gun and you can't let it go.

Look, the war is doing negative things to all of us. And until it is over and the men and women putting their lives on the line for my rights come home, NOBODY outside of the military truly knows what is going on over there.

For the war or against the war doesn't matter. The press only reports innuendoes and "facts" from sources that probably can be rebuked fully by the other side with their set of "facts".

There are 2 very sad things happening in my opinion because of this war.

1) We are dividing farther and farther and making this solely a political party thing, which helps noone and hurts the war effort. Whether we agree with the war or disagree, we are at war and MUST above all support our troops and pray for a positive ending. History has led us here, the why's and how's are speculation and irrelevant now, all we can do is change leadership if we feel that the leadership was wrong.

2) The biggest concern I have over this war, is the fact here at home we are crying over the price of gas, what Stern says and making very few sacrifices. While the families and friends of our men and women over there worry about how and when their loved ones will come home. We tend to backpage what goes on over there. Unless it is a local kid, the national news just reports a death and moves on like it is nothing.

Not saying we have to blindly follow our leader (hell, noone hates Bush more than me) but please for the love of God, let us stop fighting over the why and how and bullshit of the war and work together to help find a way to bring our troops home safe.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

slvrnblck

I will just post random links with the death tolls. Now keep in mind that when I went overseas, the newspapers all said it was 25000+, whether you want to believe me or not is up to you.

http://www.mail-archive.com/news@ant.../msg04991.html

http://www.freepress.org/departments...ay/13/2003/440

http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/083103A.shtml

http://www.rense.com/general40/todate.htm

I just did a quick search and came across these, there are more you can check out yourself if you do a search. These guys say 37 000 dead, even way more than what i said. I believe it.

slvrnblck

How come its always just the troops, why doesnt anyone give a shit about the innocents dying, you care more about the people who are killing the innocents.

pan6467

Slvr there is just no winning with you. I dig your spunk and passion man, but I'm done, after I say this, War is war man, innocents die. Praying for an end to bring troops home or to save more innocents from dying, is still praying for an ending to the needless deaths caused by war. Again, there is nothing more we can do.

As cold and as heartless as this sounds, it is the truth I have come to believe, to defend the innocent civilians over there just works against our troops and handcuffs them in ending the war sooner, because the other side is using our care of civilians and our desire to save them against us. Just like 'Nam it has gotten to the point where our men and women don't know who is safe and who is going to pull a gun/bomb/knife and kill them.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Billy Ocean

*rude comment removed*

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"To live outside the law you must be honest." - Bob Dylan

Mehoni

This is going to sound horribly insensetive:

I've seen worse. War is not clean or sterile. Worse things probably happen everyday down there.

I feel sorry for his family.

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There seem to be countless rituals and cultural beliefs designed to alleviate their fear of a simple biological truth - all organisms eventually perish.

Bookman

Wrong, it is the reactions of people like you which lead threads to be locked. That is one man's opinion and you should learn to respect that.

Bookman

This whole ordeal (video) is nuts. It saddens me that people are over in Iraq who have no clue "WHY?" People are dying period. Why do Americans cry foul when it happens to one of us? This is a progression from the Iraqi torture. Killing is not logical yet in WAR this progression is logical. Our Administration paints this benevolent and peace loving picture of our actions while the effects are frequently far from peaceful and benevolent. I sense that something grave is at the doorstep either outside or inside the US.

qtpye4u84

That makes me so sad,it really really hurt me to watch that I had to cover my eyes and have my boyfriend tell me about it, it made me cry and weep for 20 min.
I wish he would have stayed in the us.
It makes me wish that I would go back and stop him from going there,he was right at the border then he got taken, why???
He was not even a soilder.
I feel so sorry for him he must have suffered.
Killing him is just like killing a little kid,he had nothing to do with why they even killed him, yea, they wanted some of there bad guys let go.
I hate the men who did that.
Sorry ppl I am all emotional after watching some of that and at the end they just held his head up. I would have been so scared if that was me.
I hope they find the ppl who did that!!!!!!!

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The QTpie

HamiC

Everyone set everything else aside for a minute.....this is not about which side YOU are on.

A man lost his life in a horrible and brutal way. The people who were most directly responsible decided to film it and put it on the internet. I would hope that anyone could agree that this is a sad and tragic thing, regardless of his/her views on the overall conflict, politics, etc...

A man lost his life in a senselessly brutal way. We should be outraged and saddened by a death like this.....no matter what side we are on.