9/11 victims awarded damages against Iraq - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Shokan · 05-07-2003, 02:20 PM

This is just silly.

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http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=...7-054105-7452r

9/11 victims awarded damages against Iraq
By Shaun Waterman
From the Washington Politics & Policy Desk
Published 5/7/2003 5:47 PM
View printer-friendly version

WASHINGTON, May 7 (UPI) -- A federal judge in New York Wednesday awarded damages against the government of Iraq after ruling that the families of two victims of the Sept. 11, 2001, suicide hijackings had shown "albeit barely" that Iraq had provided material support to Osama bin Laden and al-Qaida.

Judge Harold Baer ruled that the two families were entitled to $104 million compensation from Iraq, bin Laden, al-Qaida, the Taliban movement and their government of Afghanistan. He had entered a default judgment against these defendants on Dec. 23, 2002, after they failed to show up to contest the case.

But he dismissed the families' suit against deposed Iraqi President Saddam Hussein on the basis that -- as head of state -- he enjoyed absolute immunity.

Lawyers for the two families said they would attempt to recover the money from the $1.7 billion in Iraqi assets frozen in the United States.

"Although the president has recently indicated he's earmarked that to help rebuild Iraq, he did set aside $300 million to pay any judgments outstanding against the old government there," attorney Slade McLaughlin told United Press International.

He said that $118 million of that had been paid out recently to the so-called "human shields" from the 1991 Gulf War, and that he hoped to be able to secure the whole $104 million for his clients from the remainder.

Baer, in a written decision released Wednesday, said that the standard of proof required for the case was much lower than that in a normal civil action, because the defendants did not contest the case.

Even so, he said that the families had only scraped over the evidential bar, referred to in a quotation from the relevant legislation as "evidence satisfactory to the court."

"Plaintiffs have shown, albeit barely, 'by evidence satisfactory to the court' that Iraq provided material support to bin Laden and al-Qaida."

Baer said that most of the evidence the families had tried to introduce -- such as TV interviews with unidentified Iraqi defectors -- was "classically hearsay" or even "multiple hearsay" -- second or third hand. He said his decision was based only on the opinion testimony of the families' two expert witnesses, former CIA Director James Woolsey Jr., and author Laurie Mylroie.

Copyright © 2001-2003 United Press International

Daval · 05-07-2003, 02:59 PM

ToiletDuck · 05-07-2003, 03:20 PM

Hmm, im in the wrong field, i wonder what a seasoned "human shield " makes a year.

The_Dude · 05-07-2003, 03:36 PM

that's just bull crap.

they should get paid by saudi, where most of the hijackers were from.

this is just BS

maximusveritas · 05-07-2003, 04:58 PM

they should get paid by no one since they are just money-grubbing leeches. Don't they have enough money as it is. Just another example of how out-of-control the legal system is in this country

MSD · 05-07-2003, 07:38 PM

What would the judge say if he were asked to reward the same damages to the families of soldiers killed in combat? They were the ones killed by the Iraqis, the Taliban and the Saudis hold the blame for 9/11.

4thTimeLucky · 05-08-2003, 04:09 AM

"just money-grubbing leeches"

Am I detecting that the 'victims-of-9/11-are-sacred' attitude has now eroded completely?

Personally I find this law suit as proposterous as the one on the thread about a girl wanting to be sole valedictorian. But my comment there still applies. You can't just say 'oh its the system' and shrug it off. Somebody has to file the suit, somebody has to act as judge or jury and somebody has to write an article in a prominent newspaper without any hint that what they are doing is nonsense. All of those people had the power to make a stand, yet in case after case after case they fail to do so.

MrSmashy · 05-08-2003, 06:37 AM

This lawsuit is stupid for so many reasons its not even funny.

I love how the judge admits that there really isn't any evidence that Iraq had anything to do with it, but he's going to go ahead anyways ('albeit barely' is a judicial codeword for that. And yes, I think we can safely say that since its mostly just rightwingers who insist that the evidence is solid while the rest admit that there isn't any evidence but they just want to beleive anyways).

05-07-2003, 02:20 PM	#1 (permalink)
Shokan Addict Location: Canada	9/11 victims awarded damages against Iraq This is just silly. ======================================== http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=...7-054105-7452r 9/11 victims awarded damages against Iraq By Shaun Waterman From the Washington Politics & Policy Desk Published 5/7/2003 5:47 PM View printer-friendly version WASHINGTON, May 7 (UPI) -- A federal judge in New York Wednesday awarded damages against the government of Iraq after ruling that the families of two victims of the Sept. 11, 2001, suicide hijackings had shown "albeit barely" that Iraq had provided material support to Osama bin Laden and al-Qaida. Judge Harold Baer ruled that the two families were entitled to $104 million compensation from Iraq, bin Laden, al-Qaida, the Taliban movement and their government of Afghanistan. He had entered a default judgment against these defendants on Dec. 23, 2002, after they failed to show up to contest the case. But he dismissed the families' suit against deposed Iraqi President Saddam Hussein on the basis that -- as head of state -- he enjoyed absolute immunity. Lawyers for the two families said they would attempt to recover the money from the $1.7 billion in Iraqi assets frozen in the United States. "Although the president has recently indicated he's earmarked that to help rebuild Iraq, he did set aside $300 million to pay any judgments outstanding against the old government there," attorney Slade McLaughlin told United Press International. He said that $118 million of that had been paid out recently to the so-called "human shields" from the 1991 Gulf War, and that he hoped to be able to secure the whole $104 million for his clients from the remainder. Baer, in a written decision released Wednesday, said that the standard of proof required for the case was much lower than that in a normal civil action, because the defendants did not contest the case. Even so, he said that the families had only scraped over the evidential bar, referred to in a quotation from the relevant legislation as "evidence satisfactory to the court." "Plaintiffs have shown, albeit barely, 'by evidence satisfactory to the court' that Iraq provided material support to bin Laden and al-Qaida." Baer said that most of the evidence the families had tried to introduce -- such as TV interviews with unidentified Iraqi defectors -- was "classically hearsay" or even "multiple hearsay" -- second or third hand. He said his decision was based only on the opinion testimony of the families' two expert witnesses, former CIA Director James Woolsey Jr., and author Laurie Mylroie. Copyright © 2001-2003 United Press International

05-07-2003, 02:59 PM	#2 (permalink)
Daval Junkie Location: The True North Strong and Free!	rofl __________________ "It is impossible to obtain a conviction for sodomy from an English jury. Half of them don't believe that it can physically be done, and the other half are doing it." Winston Churchill

05-07-2003, 03:36 PM	#4 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	that's just bull crap. they should get paid by saudi, where most of the hijackers were from. this is just BS __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

05-08-2003, 04:09 AM	#7 (permalink)
4thTimeLucky Psycho Location: 4th has left the building - goodbye folks	"just money-grubbing leeches" Am I detecting that the 'victims-of-9/11-are-sacred' attitude has now eroded completely? Personally I find this law suit as proposterous as the one on the thread about a girl wanting to be sole valedictorian. But my comment there still applies. You can't just say 'oh its the system' and shrug it off. Somebody has to file the suit, somebody has to act as judge or jury and somebody has to write an article in a prominent newspaper without any hint that what they are doing is nonsense. All of those people had the power to make a stand, yet in case after case after case they fail to do so. __________________ I've been 4thTimeLucky, you've been great. Goodnight and God bless!

05-07-2003, 03:20 PM	#3 (permalink)
ToiletDuck Insane Location: In beautiful (YOUR AREA)	Hmm, im in the wrong field, i wonder what a seasoned "human shield " makes a year.

05-07-2003, 04:58 PM	#5 (permalink)
maximusveritas Winner	they should get paid by no one since they are just money-grubbing leeches. Don't they have enough money as it is. Just another example of how out-of-control the legal system is in this country

05-07-2003, 07:38 PM	#6 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	What would the judge say if he were asked to reward the same damages to the families of soldiers killed in combat? They were the ones killed by the Iraqis, the Taliban and the Saudis hold the blame for 9/11.

05-08-2003, 06:37 AM	#8 (permalink)
MrSmashy Crazy Location: Soviet Canukistan	This lawsuit is stupid for so many reasons its not even funny. I love how the judge admits that there really isn't any evidence that Iraq had anything to do with it, but he's going to go ahead anyways ('albeit barely' is a judicial codeword for that. And yes, I think we can safely say that since its mostly just rightwingers who insist that the evidence is solid while the rest admit that there isn't any evidence but they just want to beleive anyways).