cynicalgrrlll

you website states that;

The Social Security Administration (SSA) gives cards to individuals who are U.S. citizens or non-citizens who are lawfully admitted to the U.S. for permanent residence, or who have permission from the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) record to work permanently in the United States, such as refugees, asylees, work visa holders and citizens of Compact of Free Association countries.

What do you all think non-citizens are? They are lawfully allowed to be here but not legal citizens.

And as for another lovely slam against my boyfriend. His mother married an American man so they could all come to America, except the fact that he beat them and screwed up their addmission status so they couldn't tell anyone, because they weren't actual citizens. So they had to pretty much escape from him. And he was 12 when all this happened. By the way try to hire an immigration lawyer they go around $300 an hr.

cynicalgrrlll

But why would automatically assume Mexico? It's a stereotypical answer, people from all over the world immigrate here.

cynicalgrrlll

when you said you presummed the only reason I was posting was because I was offended on my bf's behalf.

cynicalgrrlll

Since this nation's founding, more than 55 million immigrants from every continent have settled in the United States. In fact, with the exception of Native Americans, everyone living in this country is either an immigrant or the descendent of voluntary or involuntary immigrants.

ShadowWraith

Was there really a need to split that response into 4 seperate posts? Anyway, i think you have confused the terms "non-citizen" and "illegal immigrant" because they are definitely not the same. A non-citizen is someone who has a work-visa and can stay in the country as long as they work. They are registered with the INS and pay taxes but can't vote or do some of the things full citizens can. Non-citizens keep the passports of their country of origin and leave once the work term is up or apply for permanent citizenship. An illegal immigrant is someone who just snuck across the border and has no legal status. I'm not sure about how taxation goes for them but i'd be betting illegal immigrants don't pay taxes because as far as the IRS is concerned, they don't exist.

As for why Lebell assumed Mexico, i can't speak for him but i would be guessing that since geographically speaking, mexico is the only country bordering texas and that there are many well documented cases of illegal immigrants crossing over on the texas border, it wasn't too much of a leap to assume your bf was from mexico.

Finally, please stop making irrelevant points like your last post and the huge list of famous immigrants. We all know that the U.S. was created by immigrants and that the majority of its population consists of immigrants, be it recent or generations removed.

cynicalgrrlll

No matter what I say you have all closed off any debate about this, but it doesn't matter since the point you are arguing is a fairly moot one, Hispanics right now are the largest growing race in America and in a short while will be the predominate race in the U.S.

analog

I feel stupid for even having to say so in a POLITICS thread, seeing as we're all supposed to be adults here, but here goes:

Quit the flaming and snapping at other posters. You know who you (a few of you) are.

Especially where it can be a heated topic, we all need to be particularly careful of our thoughts, and see to it that only the constructive ones make it to screen. You can scream all you want in your head, or at the screen, but save your fingers the effort and us all the trouble of having to read it, or edit/warn/etc.

Further infractions will be met with stricter application of the rules of this board. (We can only allow people to slide for so long)

Resume.

Lebell

The site is clear in its wording and you contradict yourself. Lawful does not mean illegal.

You are reading an awful lot into those few words.

I on the other hand, could read your words to mean that you consider the thought of dating a Mexican National offensive and thus you are bigoted, but that would be just as silly.

I made an educated guess, based on the overwhelming number of illegal Mexican immigrants in relation to illegal immigrants from other nations. I also hedged my guess, admitting I could have been wrong, which I apparently was.

Further discussion on this point is silly. If you are bound to take offense at it, there is nothing I can do to stop you, but my words were clear.

Again, I have no idea how you got from my point "A" to your point "B", especially since you could have been dating him for years.



I almost completely agree with you, except for the fact that the "Native Americans" are immigrants too, having immigrated here from Asia several thousand years ago.

From the Merriam Webster dictionary:

Both you and I are "native" to the US; we were born here. There is no ancestral component to the definition of "native". If you choose to throw that in (which you have), I can simply counter as I have, since we are really only drawing lines in the sand of time as to what constitutes "native".

And yes, immigrants are a very real and good part of our history. And the vast majority of them were legal immigrants, including my own ancestors from Italy, Ireland, France and England. If you want, I can go into great depth about the history of Denver and Colorado and the important role immigrants played.

But again, you have said nothing to convince me that illegal immigrants should be allowed to stay, or that illigal immigration shouldn't be vigorously curbed.

The best argument, namely that American business needs illegals, I could have at least made an attempt to discuss with you, but you chose to degrade the thread instead by personally attacking me.

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Cynthetiq

It's called immersion it's what generations before have done because they knew it was the way to get better jobs and higher salaries. Otherwise we'd all be speaking Italian, Spanish (Castillian) Gaelic, German, Polish, Hungarian, Russian and English.

Without a common language to conduct business and community places become very divided, example Los Angeles' population with Koreans and Mexicans, where they refuse to assimilate into the melting pot of society.

You say that its out of respect that many of you speak a little spanish, well what about conversely? Shouldn't the same courtesy be extended to those that speak english?

I'm not lazy and I know lots about other cultures and even lived in another for some time. I don't see the same difficulties there than I do here because they have strong cultural identity and refuse to bend to immigrants.

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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

tecoyah

Maybe I am lazy and stupid....but I fail to see why this thread has gone from an intersting discussion on the lagality of immigration status, to a series of insults directed at each other.

Here is an attenpt to resume the topic:
Should an individual cross the borders into a country, they are expected to abide by the laws and customs of the place they willingly migrated to. This is simply commom sense.
Should said individual feel these laws or customs do not meet the criteria they have for happiness, or productivity, they are free to migrate elsewhere. These laws and customs are in place at the request of the residents of said country, and if the migrant wishes them to change they must gain the rights of citizenship and WORK for this change.
Legal citizenship is in place for a reason, and with it come certain rights and responsibilities, it is by no means a minor part of any society, and must be "granted" by the governing entity of that society.
Illegal immigration is just that,illegal. Not legal. Against the law.
Granting the rights of citizenship, to non-citizens, would make the term citizen, and all that it entails irrellevent.
While I realize it is not easy to gain these rights and responsibilities for all who make the attempt, that does not make the attempt futile or unneccessary.
I was born to these resposibilities, and rights. I am lucky in this regard and likely do not understand the trials of having to gain citizenship, That is why we have laws to govern the proccess.

If one wants to become a part of this society, which is based on lawful participation. Do not start off by unlawfully avoiding this participation

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hiredgun

Thought I spent much of my life on the other side of the fence on this issue, and though I am myself the child of Pakistani immigrants (actually, I myself immigrated when I was a few months old) I have come to realize immigration IS, without a doubt, a problem in this country.

Legal immigration is fine. I am not qualified to say whether the rate at which we legally admit foreigners should be changed or not, though I admit that the author of the article in question has a strong opinion on that.

However, illegal immigration and specifically the lack of integration is a huge cultural problem.

I have an Asian friend who, during a debate, once shouted at me in frustration "Asian people destroy everything that's good about America!" This was an obvious overstatement, but what he meant specifically, he explained, was that in his part of California the Asian American community absolutely refuses to integrate, building its own closed community with an entirely Asian culture.

The same is true of *many* (not all) Mexican immigrants. In a poll of Mexican-born immigrants in SoCal in 1992, 0% responded "American" to the question: "How do you identify, that is, what do you call yourself?" In the same poll, of Mexican Americans born in the United States, only 4% responded "American". (This is from Samuel Huntington's article in the latest issue of Foreign Policy. And no, I don't entirely agree with the whole article, but these stats are telling.)

Living in the US as a naturalized citizen has been a privilege that I respect. Part of that privilege has been learning to speak English, after being thrust as a kindergartener into a roomful of kids who didn't speak my language. Yes, it's easier to learn English at that age than as an adult, but it's necessary to speak the language to properly fulfill your civic role (or your role as a legal noncitizen). I don't think everyone should be forced to learn English; that's a choice that has consequences for only the one who makes the decision. However, why is tax money being used to fund multilingual schools, multilingual ballots, and overall multilingual bureaucracy? It's both a waste of national resources and an erosion of national identity. Plenty of immigrants have learned to speak English AND retained their native languages (like myself, and many people I know). It may be difficult, but this country is a society, not a handout line.

Cynthetiq

as a legal worker and the son of immigrants who came here on work visas and eventually became naturalized almost 10 years ago, I too pay taxes for benefits I will never enjoy just like my parents did. I went to private school. Did we still have to pay for educational funding for public school yes. I choose to have no kids, I still have to pay taxes that go to funding public schools. I have never seen any benefit of it.

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hiredgun

What's your point? They're ILLEGAL... they came here unlawfully!

Tomservo

CG - it looks like you've abandoned the tread, but I'll respond anyhow. Saying your boyfriend "should get his ass in gear and apply for LEGAL immigrant/US Citizen status" is not in any way a SLAM against him, it's a simple fact.

You concede he's been in this country since he was 12, when exactly is he going to actually get around to obeying the law? Every year I have to "get my ass in gear" and do my taxes, register my cars, pay my renter's, health, and car insurance, enroll my kid in school, file for financial aid, and, of course, work a full-time job. If I neglect to do one of those tasks, it's reasonable to say I better "get my ass in gear" and do them.

Would you drive an illegally unregistered CAR for years? Hell no, you'd go get your license plates, pay the taxes, and get it taken care of. To assume he shouldn't do that for himself is a little ridiculous.

Or, to give you an example that features LEGAL FEES, since you mentioned the $300/hr fee, would you stay married to someone for years after splitting up just to avoid the divorce lawyer fees? What if you wanted to marry someone else? Just "let it ride"? Naw, you'd save the cash, swallow your pride, and pony up the money. That's the real world. For some reason you seem to think Americans are all about hatin' the "brown man" or some nonsense. My wife is half Mexican, half Italian. Our daughter is 3/4 Mexican. Does that give them the right to hate white folks, or other Americans? Does it give them the right to ignore federal law?

cynicalgrrlll

Considering the fact the he does everything that you mentioned above as well as work full time and attend college full time, I think he does have his "ass in gear" that fact that you assumed that he didn't do any of this because he was an immigrant was what was insulting. He is working on getting his immigration status changed but I don't think you have ever been to through the process, because it does take a couple of years. Only against the brown man? Hardly my bf is Russian, and you to seem to not descriminate against disliking all illegal immigrants
That fact the many people on this thread seem to lump all immigrants into a group is what becomes insulting.

cynicalgrrlll

I will debate fairly and not take any cheap shots, but the rest of you should adhere to that policy as well.

1. Many immigrants illegal or otherwise, do tend to retain their cultures or lives in sections of town dominated by their particular culture, but not all do. Many immigrants that do refuse to speak the language, as you claim, are an older generation of immigrants who are already set in their ways. Their children usually do speak the language and branch out. Older immigrants who came here, usually to have an easier life, have more trouble learning the language and usually have someone in their family who can speak English for them. But they do abide the law.

2. Immigrants that are either illegal or don't abide by the laws are quickly deported. Many Iranian immigrants were deported with no just cause, after 9/11, even though they were law abiding citizens. When you are arrested the first thing the police will check is if you are a US citizen.

3. The entire world has a shortage of natural resouces and jobs etc. Blaming immigrants for this is a easy way out. People, all people have used up the world's resources without giving second thought to it, this a problem society should deal with. Blaming immigrants is easier for people because they don't have to accept responsiblity for their own actions. People having jobs and spending money boosts the economy. Most immigrants also don't have high power jobs due to their lack of experience in the American job field and lack of education in college.

4. Most illegal immigrants are underpaid and overworked because their bosses know they can't do anything about it. Most live in poor conditions and do not get any help from the government. Most large American coporations such as Wal-Mart etc, make a good profit out of using illegal immigrants as workers.

5. Immigrants come to this country looking for a better way of life, shut off all the doors to immigrants illegal or otherwise and America no longer is a nation of the free, and slowly it's democratic values will decline. America's founding principles will no longere be valid and therefore the constitution would technically no longer be valid either.

6. Most people are illegal immigrants due in large part to the fact that the process to become a natural citizen, has so much red tape because of the government. The government has made it costly, difficult, and drawn out for people to become citizens, even for people that pose no threat to the U.S. and have already resided here for many years. This has scared most immigrants from applying for citizenship because they are afraid they will be deported in the process. If you have such a problem with illegal immigrants contact your government and ask them why they would rather make immigrants illegal than legal. Because everyone needs a scapegoat, especially the government.

tecoyah

I think they are lumping all"illegal" immigrants into a group, which would make perfect sense in the context of this thread. If he is working towards his citizenship, there is no reason to get upset, as he will soon have all the rights you do.
My sister married a man from Argentina, in an attempt to help him gain citizenship. It still took the better part of two years to finalize, then he moved back to South America, as he had finished his education in California, and they divorced.....hmmmm.

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

cynicalgrrlll

Some people do that, but the government makes it extremely difficult nowadays to get away with it. I wouldn't suggest doing that, because it messes with those sacred marriage vows. Both of my parents have been offered money to marry people, so the people could get their citizenship. I always thtought that was kinda odd

Cynthetiq

My parents didn't want me to speak the language at home. I was brought up to speak english. My cousins who were allowed to speak and "gain" an accent within their english, makes it harder for them to "play the game" and speak and orate well. I have witnessed young Puerto Ricans specifically say,"Don't speak english speak spanish." because they thought that I didn't speak spanish and they wanted to talk about my wife (who is white and also speaks spanish) I chastised them in spanish for being disrespectful.

Many illegal immigrants still live here. Why else is GWB considering giving "legal status" to them?

[quote]
3. The entire world has a shortage of natural resouces and jobs etc. Blaming immigrants for this is a easy way out. People, all people have used up the world's resources without giving second thought to it, this a problem society should deal with. Blaming immigrants is easier for people because they don't have to accept responsiblity for their own actions. People having jobs and spending money boosts the economy. Most immigrants also don't have high power jobs due to their lack of experience in the American job field and lack of education in college. [quote]
There are also plenty of immigrants that do have high powered jobs, just look at who runs MGM Entertainment. He worked hard to get to where he is via plenty of education and networking.

Wal Mart was raided just the other month. Undocumented workers is a very serious thing.

[quote]5. Immigrants come to this country looking for a better way of life, shut off all the doors to immigrants illegal or otherwise and America no longer is a nation of the free, and slowly it's democratic values will decline. America's founding principles will no longere be valid and therefore the constitution would technically no longer be valid either.[quote]
My family took almost 15 years to get here. They all came here via petition and most of them got their green cards and the rest were naturalized. If you look at the history of the US you'll find that there are periods in times when the borders were closed and America didn't fall to pieces.

If you came here on a proper visa then you have nothing to worry about. If you break a law you will always look over your shoulder.

cynicalgrrlll

On a sidenote, sorry for anyone I offended, especially too Lebell, it was uncalled for and immature, I just get very fired up when people discuss this topic and let my emotions get the better of me. I don't like it when people make assumptions about me and my character and shouldn't do it in return. My apoligizes

BuDDaH

Did your boyfriend come over to study or was he invited? That is the only way I know for someone to get a SSI number. That DOES NOT entitle him to SSI benefits because his CLASSING of his visa MOST LIKELY DOES NOT permit him to work. But given the fact you are going on round and round about him paying taxes but not being entitled to SSI shows he is working ILLEGALLY, because his STATUS has not the work permission.
That is his mistake and THERE IS NO other way to put it: He might be legally in the U.S., but he is not LEGALLY allowed to work.
No matter ho many times you flip it and think it's unfair, HE IS IN THE WRONG.

2nd point: It is now a proven fact that even Columbus didn't "discover" America, nor the Spanish. (How can you find something that was never lost and belonged to someone else?)
One of Columbus's slaves "found" America while Columbus was too busy chasing some savage for a piece of tail...

3rd : Most of the illegals KNOW where to go and how to abuse the American system JUST because their staus as an illegal.
How you think they got jobs at WalMart? Was there a WalMart representitive standing on the border with a sign in their language pointing the way? No, they come with the intention to work as "cheap labor". The American dollar can go a lot further in some countries than their own currency. It's a shame that most businesses hire cheaper labor and mark the money they save up in the "PROFITS" margin as money saved... I have witnessed this more than 5 times: Some businesses hire a delivery boy or waiter for $2 an hour instead of paying minimum wage (so they save almost $4 off the top or use the excess to hire 2 more. 3 illegals for the cost of 1 working American without having to pay insurance, health benefits, taxes.) then let them keep the tips. The average delivery boy makes $60 - $100 A DAY in TIPS ALONE. So they make $80 in wages and average $500 - $600 a week! (And do they pay taxes on it?) Now think of all the immigrants you see all over the place working in restaurants making deliveries or serving food? And this is the small scale of the balance, think about Skilled and Trade jobs that is affected.

Walk down any New York street and you'll see how many bootleg items being sold (bad copies of items made from American businesess) by immigrants and LOOK at how many are doing it..

Then think of why American is heading to the pits because America holds her arms open to everyone from anywhere else in the world, and they take more advantage of "the system". Now, if it is so much of a problem of them becoming registered and legal, I don't see them having a problem and doing the "illegal"
way..

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I'd hit that so hard whoever could pull me out would become King of England!

cynicalgrrlll

Buddah you should change your name to reflect, a less caring individual

Tomservo

Wow. You seem to just enjoy sticking your foot in your mouth. We lump all immigrants into a group? You're lumping all of us in with some facist anti-immigration whackos simply because we don't want to be overrun by illegal immigrants! Does it MATTER if your boyfriend is brown, or black, or yellow, or green? To you, apparently it matters. To the rest of us, who gives a flip? If he goes through the process of becoming a citizen, none of this argument even applies to him!

No, it's completely alright for you to complain that we're all just going to "so suck it up and get used to" the fact that "Hispanics right now are the largest growing race in America and in a short while will be the predominate race in the U.S." No, sorry, we DON'T have to suck it up and get used to it. In fact, we can stand up to it and DEMAND that our leadership address the issue of illegal immigration before it does turn our country into the third-world. You seem inclined to allow illegal immigrants to just go ahead and keep breaking the law, yet you chastise companies for hiring them. Oh, sure, Wal-Mart's evil for breaking the law, but Johnny Immigrant is completely pious for doing the same?

Your arguments sound like something a ninth-grade MEChA member would be spouting.

BuDDaH

I tell it straight, lady. Like it or lump it. I dont pull punches.
Your mistake was not knowing how to keep "NEUTRAL"
and "IMPARTIAL" on and OPEN FORUM... So don't complain if some people reply in a way or tone you don't like. You are speaking from a point you think you know first hand perspective when it isn't even yours. It's his. Then you react in the way you think you should because IT'S someone very (?) close to you. (I'll give you that point.) NO MATTER what rocks your boat or how you see it, LAW IS LAW. So, can you say he is LEGALLY in the States AND is LEGALLY ALLOWED TO WORK in the U.S. of A.?
IF you can, then you have a VALID point to be upset, if not stop the song, I don't wanna see it getting to a point where it is almost hazardous. You are talking with your heart more than your head...
You cannot possibly imagine what I have been through being back in the States after living in Europe for 14 years. I caught it from people in their country giving me shit because I'm American, I've gotten shit FOR being American, and now I'm back IN America and still getting SHIT FROM them in my OWN COUTRY. It's tough for even me to get any job AND I'm American. SO, before you go calling the kettle black and go on about how you've been handle heavy-handed, bring your resentment or argument some-the-fuck-where-else and check it. If you can't come CORRECT in this conversation: "Don't" even THINK about stepping to me or trying to twist me.

Maybe you shouldn't be so "cynical" cynicalgrrlll...
WHO are YOU to judge ME?

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I'd hit that so hard whoever could pull me out would become King of England!

BuDDaH

AND this is a warning to EVERYONE:

TONE DOWN........

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I'd hit that so hard whoever could pull me out would become King of England!

Halx

I think a better way to put it is...
debate all you want, but the names and attitudes of all involved are non-negotiable. Make do with what you've got and stay within the rules.

Shame on you both.

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BuDDaH

erm...
Both who?

*Holy hijack a thread, Batman!!*

__________________
I'd hit that so hard whoever could pull me out would become King of England!

cynicalgrrlll

And that comment made you look more mature huh?

cynicalgrrlll

And just to clarify a point, my bf is only a LEGAL citizen when he is working, which means he has to reapply for a work visa and social security number to work every year. He gets to pay taxes and for social security that he will never get to see and also gets no benefits from the government, which is not limited to but includes, welfare, health insurance, social security, voting rights, college funding of any kind (even though he graduated with honors in the top ten of his high school in America and a year early.) cannot leave the country since he cannot apply for a passport to get back in.

tecoyah

HHMMM....I think I am also paying for benefits I will likely never see. As I am 37 and have been paying for SS since I was 16, It is very likely these benefits will be gone when I am eligable. That does not mean I can stop paying my taxes, It does however, allow society here to take better care of its citizenry.I also will never(god willing) accept welfare, as I have no intention of "needing"it, and must pay for my own health insurance. Your argument is doomed to relative failure, if you intend to debate his eligability for poverty benefits.
We have more than enough impovershed individuals who require government assistance, Why would anyone in this society agree to pay for these benefits for someone legally from another country.
The same Goes for college assistance, I would be a little upset if my daughter was passed up for college aid, in favor of your boyfriend,I must work 50-60 hrs a week to support my family in this economy, and pay alot in taxes. I would expect some form of return on this in the future, and have no intention of paying for the education of an illegal immigrant.

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

cynicalgrrlll

fuzyfuzer

i think that immigration is great because most immigrants come here to work hard and it kind of balances things out

there is an area in south St. Louis that is almost all bosnian and it youst to be a dump but now that all these people are there it is a very neat area and an area that has a lot of thriving buisness its great the only problem is the bosnians are trying to stop other people from moving into the area because it has become very desireable to some people and what the bosnians are trying to do bothers me but i love that they are coming here and improving my city

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"Thrice happy is the nation that has a glorious history. Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." Theodore Roosevelt

cynicalgrrlll

Fuzyfuzer I love you!

BuDDaH

I have noticed thet you still haven't answered if he is LEGALLY in the States and LEGALLY authorized to work in the U.S. of A.
If he was invited to work by some company and then changed his line of work (which in this case it sounds like it..) then his visa status has changed and the country does not have to honor the original reasons of his visa. He will be in a kinda of "limbo" until his status changes.

Second part of that is: Until he becomes an American citizen, THEN and ONLY then he is intitled for benefits of an American citizen..

__________________
I'd hit that so hard whoever could pull me out would become King of England!

cynicalgrrlll

I aware of that and I already answered your first question, but I'll say it again, YES he can LEGALLY work here. Please read previous posts about this, I'm not gonna walk you through it again.

BuDDaH

So, learn to read the fine print: He is NOT an American citizen, so he is NOT intitled to benefits of an American citizen. It was the same for me when I lived in Europe: I was able to work and live in those countries but I was not intitled to the same benefits of those citizens. So the politics are going around for the same way for people from other walks of life in other countries. It sucks, but thats the way it goes for now.

__________________
I'd hit that so hard whoever could pull me out would become King of England!

tecoyah

I would have to say....you should definately keep your name, as should buddah.I guess we will never actually know the real status of your BF, but it really makes little difference.When he is a naturalized citizen of the U.S.A., he will certainly gain all rights he is entitled to. Until then, write your friggin' congresswoman/man, and direct the venom you have at them, but leave me out of it.

Anyone care to actually discuss the topic, as it could be interesting?

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

tecoyah

I would think it a natural progression of a slowly uniting globe, that little chunks of unique culture would be prevelant for a time. If we look at this on a larger time scale, it almost seems natural that groups of people would clump together to share like culture. But thru the passage of time would become more watered down, or mixed into the larger population.
Eventually, with the growth in media and communications, we will all be one culture. It may take hundreds, or thousands of years, but it is inevitable.America will not exist at that point, nor will any true borders be in place....someday.

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

Tomservo

You ignore your own comment. You stated "Hispanics right now are the largest growing race in America and in a short while will be the predominate race in the U.S... so suck it up and get used to it". As it concerns illegal aliens, we have no desire to be overrun by third-world citizens who suddenly have free reign on our jobs and land. If you fail to see that providing amnesty will have an overall negative impact on our country's unity and productivity, that's your own prejudice.

No one is belaboring this point. We're nearly all liberals, and thus generally not a prejudiced lot at all. I live in Los Angeles, where my neighbors are Mexican and Eastern European, and neither of them speaks English predominantly. I'm married to a Mexican/Italian girl. The fact is, if you're IMMIGRATING, you're not an American. You're hispanic, latino, bulgarian, cuban, asian, whatever. More often than not, that means NOT WHITE. This is not a prejudice, it's an observation. Your early posts seem convinced that we oppose the prescence of those "not like us", when we merely want to have a country where the citizens have respect for America, its citizens, and its culture- something you claim it does not have, even as you likely wear jeans and tennis shoes while eating fast food and flipping through the channels, past a baseball game, the NCAA tournament, and finally settling on a big Hollywood picture. America has no culture- yet our sports have international interest. Our films generate billions of dollars worldwide. Our new styles proliferate the media. We're a young country, but our impact is huge.

Are you serious?

I'll make this as clear as possible: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ARE BREAKING THE LAW. The law is SIMPLE- if you enter the United States without persmission, you are BREAKING THE LAW.

How is it that this is such a mystery? Every single poster here, except you, knows this to be a fact. If you enter the country illegally, whether you be a Mexican, a Cuban, an Afghani, a Saudi Arabian, or a Brit, you're still BREAKING THE LAW, and you are eligible to be DEPORTED. If you don't comprehend this most basic of facts regarding immigration, you're not really qualified to comment on the topic at all, are you?