Lebell

As the writer states, it's not about race, it's about too many people for resources.

It's also about immigrants who do NOT want to become American, but who want to carve out little chunks of American to become the new *insert country here*.

Europe is finally starting to get a clue that their very national identities are at risk.

I hope we do too before it's too late (but I'm not hopeful).


----------------------------------------------------
LINK

What is America's Dangerous Future?

Exclusive commentary by Frosty Wooldridge


Mar 11, 2004


In tomorrow's America of suffocating political correctness and clashing cultures, unrestricted immigration will prove a merciless weapon of war. It's importing conflicting languages, barbaric rituals, deadly diseases like tuberculosis, cultural antagonisms and loss of a cohesive national identity. California is our national harbinger of things to come. It is called Third World Momentum.

The Roman Empire fell to immigration of the Vandals. Likewise, Celtic Britain, Germany's Prussia and Serbian Kosovo.

I traveled to Los Angeles recently. I felt like a stranger in my own country as few spoke English. Whole areas have been turned into city-states of foreigners where Americans are not welcome. I might as well have been in China, Korea, Mexico or Bangladesh. All businesses carried their own languages. One store near Garden Grove in Los Angeles, Aztlan Gallery, featured anti American T-shirts, 'DECOLONIZE: UNITED STATES OF AZTLAN' and 'GO BACK HOME GRINGOS'. The voting ballot offered 20 languages on it for the governor recall election. Whose country is this, anyway?

What is America’s dangerous future? Where once immigration furnished men and women for building a nation, today, illegal and unrestricted mass immigration make a few wealthy at the expense of American citizens. Our own corporations are 'outsourcing' and ‘offshoring’ jobs to Third World countries--thus leaving American citizens in unemployment lines. Honored meat packing companies that were built by Americans--bus illegal immigrants from Texas into food processing plants in Austin, Minnesota. Along with their cheap labor come drugs, TB, Leprosy and honor killings. Austin's schools struggle with foreign languages and Austin kids suffer. Our own Congress renewed the H-1B visa, which gave 890,000 American jobs in the past 10 years to foreigners. Little wonder our economy augured into the ground like a plane that lost its wings.

In Sequoia National Park last year, Mexican cartels ran a $150 million dollar drug-growing plantation with armed guards who threatened backpackers. In Florida, a Muslim woman sued our country so she could disobey our laws because she refused to have her picture taken for a driver’s license. A naturalized citizen Muslim soldier in US Army uniform fragged and killed his commanders 12 months ago in Iraq. Over 30,000 men in Army uniform aren't American citizens. The INS freed illegal alien John Malvo who promptly killed 17 Americans. Via illegal immigration of 9 to 13 million, we endure 7,000 new cases of leprosy in the past three years. We suffer a $7 trillion national debt and 6.4% national unemployment, but we spend $68 billion resettling 2.3 million immigrants each year when 18 million of our own citizens can't find a job. Immigrants send $56 billion of our dollars--$15 billion to Mexico, $25 billion to Latin America, $16 billion to Asia--back to their home countries--thus draining us of hard currency. This transfer of wealth is making this country poorer by the day. Consumer debt tops $2 trillion. The average credit card sustains a $7,000.00 debt.
In the cultural realm of a First World Country, do we need rituals where a baby girl has her sexual being cut out of her in the form of 'clitorectomy'? Can we afford everyone wearing a mask for driver’s license pictures? Can we afford losing our English language and become the Tower of Babel? Do we condone, by being politically correct, 'cock fighting' and ‘horse tripping’ brought to us by Third World cultures? What about the new strain of tuberculosis spreading across America because illegal immigrants work in fast food and hotels? It's called MDR TB (multiple drug resistant) and has no cure. According to a report last year titled: ‘THE PATIENT PREDATOR: TUBERCULOSIS’ by Kevin Patterson, 16,000 cases of this strain of tuberculosis migrated from Mexico in the past four years. Illegal immigrants’ children number over one million in our public schools. If your children contract it at school, will they survive? Two million TB deaths worldwide annually don’t bode well.

California citizens are dying in emergency rooms because hospitals are over run with immigrants who can't pay. Because of no family planning in their countries of origin, this endless line of immigrants is pushing us toward 200 million added people vying for diminishing resources past the mid century. For starters, how about a glass of water in the drought prone West?

This is not about race, creed or color. It’s about too many people and an unsustainable
society in the long term. It’s about accelerating unsolvable problems. Minimum population projections add four to five million people to every state in the union. California will add 20 million. Can your state add millions of people without horrific consequences?

It’s important that you enter this accelerating debate on our nation’s future. What is at stake? Our children, the viability of our nation and our way of life. It’s about law and order along with citizenship. In short, it’s about America. It’s about you.

__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

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Zeld2.0

My first post on this is first going to first just say a small thing...

He had a good idea but really its hard to read a guy who says its not about race,creed or color when all his points are based on what "others" are bringing to us.

Funny, just had to point that out.

Zeld2.0

Okay to actually tackle what is being said...

Its true resources are never going to be in great supply...

But the population of the U.S. would decrease if immigration were stopped IIRC.

Take jobs for example... everyone has a great time blaming it on immigrants. But in a competitive market, if you don't get the job... to me its simple, too bad, there's a good chance also one didn't deserve the job...

Anyways i'd rather people tackle their own problems rather than blame it on 'others' every second

Seaver

I'm sorry, you all know I'm conservative....

but too few resources? Have you seen how fat this country is?

If you legalize them you at least get tax dollars, while we still provide the medical care we already pay for.

Strange Famous

America is a country of immigrants, all American's who are not Indian's are immigrants... it would be funny if the article was not so unaware of the irony.

The "whose country is this anyway" is almost too much, let us be clear it is not the country of white men... as for American's who object to Spanish being used as a government language... it is simply too much. Are there really American people today who's understanding is so poor, so limited, that they do not know that the Spanish were the original European settlers of America, that they NAMED America???

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

filtherton

This just seems like somebody dug up their father's "immigrants are stealing our jobs" "Immigrants are different" arguments. He even attempts to blame immigrants for the actions of greedy market driven capitalists. Is it the immigrants fault that they have the comparative advantage when it comes to the price of labor? Economists agree that immigrants are just bowing to the will of the almighty market.

He attempts to make broad implications based on the actions of a small minority. RUN, THE MEXICANS ARE GOING TO SET UP DRUG PLANTATIONS!!! Not that you couldn't find ten thousand americans who would gladly work in Sequoia National Park, running a $150 million dollar drug-growing plantation and threatening backpackers.

Playing "Let's Blame the Immigrants" is a fun way to spend an afternoon. Anyone with a good mind for debate can paint any problem as being solely rooted in immigration. Lack of jobs? Immigration. Declining schools? Immigration. CEO corruption? Immigrants(they just seem to have this corrupting effect).


As for not assimilating promptly. I would guess that most immigrants don't really assimilate effectively. Their children seem to assimilate just fine. And their children's children are just your average americans.

Lebell

Just fyi,

Amerigo Vespucci was Italian, not Spanish.

__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

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timalkin

If you want to get technical, Indians are immigrants too. They had to come from somewhere, because they weren't always here.

I get really tired of people coming over here and absolutely refusing to speak any English. I would never go to Mongolia and expect everyone to learn English just for me.

maximusveritas

I agree. I have no problem with anyone legally immigrating in order to contribute to this country and earn a decent living. Heck, that's what I did myself.
All I ask is that you learn to speak English. Don't come over here until you do. It's really not that hard.

floydthebarber

It's actually quite hard to learn another language for some people. I'm not suggesting they don't need to learn, just that some don't learn as fast as others. Demanding the learn english before they immigrate is ridiculous IMO.

Immigrants aren't a problem, bring em on!

__________________
wish you were here

Strange Famous

The state should offer free night classes for people to learn English in, and most immigrants would be very happy to learn English as their second language.

What we do not want is to make people assimiliate to American culture (whatever that is, I can tell you for sure it isnt what the guy who wrote that article thinks it is) but rather to add their culture to it... both where they are from and where they are is a part of who they are.

Do you think the guy who wrote this article hates St Patrick's day prades? Yeah, I doubt it too...

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

irateplatypus

your posts often confuse me. your location says england, but you're commenting on the attitude of the average immigrant in the US. you also use "we" in the sense that you are part of the American culture. will you please clear that up for me? honestly, it would really help me make better sense of this discussion.

i've lived in 4-5 states here in the US, including California. this has given me a lot of firsthand experience in interacting with immigrants. from what i've seen, there is very little desire or impetus to contribute to American culture (again, i know the term is nebulous at best) as it stands today on the part of the growing hispanic population. if asked, i can cite countless examples of such behavior. it's almost as if they realized that within their own communities they can keep their old ways and not contribute fully to US society, all the while reaping the benefits. because they stick together, they can flex their political muscles in ways they could never do that if they were in the habit of assimilating.

in my experience, most are not willing to learn english as long as they can continue to get by without it.

this isn't racist at all, just an observation: the middle eastern and east asian communities are much more interested in contributing to American society in the cases that i have observed. Perhaps this is because the communities they live in have fewer of their own ethnicity, so they are forced to interact more.

it seems like in the past people came to American to be Americans. now it seems like they just want to live like one. if i were in the position that a lot of these people came from in their original countries, i'd probably do the same... but that doesn't mean that it promotes strength and prosperity where i live.

__________________
If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

~ Winston Churchill

Strange Famous

But Spanish people have more right to be in America than the English immigrants, they conquered it first.

And I am English, but I feel I am part of the international working class culture, working people really do not belong to any country.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

cynicalgrrlll

Americans have to be the greediest bastards alive! as forlack of resources get rid of some of the damn golf courses and cemetaries and that would open up some resources.

Also why should other people have to learn to speak English? Maybe we should learn to speak their language instead. just because americans are too lazy and stupid to further educate themselves on other cultutres, doesn't make it a good excuse.

I'm from texas and hear we all speak a little Spanish, mainly out of respect for the fact we have so many hispanics that live here, it's common courtsey to an e xtent.

cynicalgrrlll

Author is a little bit confused that when people live in America they still must abide by American laws. and the comment about dying California citizens, is he saying that Americans are better and deserve treatment and immigrants don't? What about all the americans that can't pay? sounds like something the governemnt needs to fix

Lebell

I would agree that no one should have to learn English; but why then should I, the tax payer, be forced to fund foreign language ballots, school teachers, translators, etc. in my own country?

And btw, I happen to be semi-literate in Spanish.

__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

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Tomservo

SF - The Spanish didn't "conquer" America. They discovered America, then conquered Mexico. The English "conquered" America, and through some strange coincedence, Americans speak English and Mexicans speak Spanish. Neat!

cgrrlll - You're wrong, simply put. I live in California, where many Mexicans live completely English-free lives- and my daughter's public school is hampered by the handicap of teaching a multilingual class, majorly. As a matter of fact, the parent teacher's association meetings are held in Spanish, then translated for the English speakers. (The Asians and Eastern Europeans are apparently on their own) My college Italian teacher continually tells us "This is not like the Spanish sound..." or "For you Spanish-speaking students..." Well, excuse me, but my family has been on this hunk of rock for as many generations as we recall, why should I have to be given short shrift to someone who refuses to learn? It's not as if this issue doesn't affect me, living in the San Fernando Valley, I'm faced with it every day.

However, that's not what you're wrong about. Prior to living in Los Angeles, I lived in Dallas, Texas, and mnay of my friends and family live in Dallas, Fort Worth, San Angelo, and Houston, and the only ones in this group who speak Spanish are the few who learned it in High School- something many of my classmates did in OHIO, where I graduated from HS. Folks in Texas aren't any more respectful of Spanish speakers than anywhere else... did any American here graduate from a HS that didn't require a foreign language? I took French and German in HS, and I'm in Italian 2 as an adult. I have desire to learn about other cultures, but I'm not going to be brainwashed into thinking this isn't an English-speaking country.

Tomservo

Oh, additionally, if there's anything my multiple trips across the Ocean have taught me, it's that not all cultures are as educated as we THINK they are. Having spent a considerable amount of time in Sasebo, Nagasaki, and Yokusuka, Japan, I can tell you folks without question that 90% of the folks I encountered (outside of my hotels) had no freaking CLUE what I was saying. I'm sure they were intelligent, well meaning folks, but they didn't understand any of the English I brought over. The train lady never figured out where I actually needed to go- she just sold me a generic fare in frustration and let me go about my merry way.

I did note that some Japanese understood English better when it was WRITTEN, however. Words they seemed unable to mimic vocally, they could speak relatively clearly when written. It was obvious that some had trained in English, but the vast majority were not English speakers by any stretch of the imagination.

SLM3

Samuel Huntington (of Clash of Civilizations fame) has just written a book dealing with this topic. His thinly veiled racist rantings would be easier to shrug off if he wasn't such a notable figure in US political science. Might be an interesting read.


SLM3

ShadowWraith

(Note: I am canadian but i lived much of my life in the states plus canada is facing a similar problem so for purposes of simplification i will refer to myself as american)

First of all, Cynicalgrrrl it seems that you have refuted your own point by first asking why people should learn english and then saying its common courtesy to learn a bit of spanish. Well by the same token, then what about all the other people in Texas? Don't you think it'd be a common courtesy for the spanish-speakers to learn english as well?

I think one of the author's only good points was the one about how places were turning into "city-states of foreigners". To give a different sort of perspective, i knew a ton of kids at my old high school who only spoke spanish or korean or chinese or whatever and had a limited grasp of english. It seems that instead of trying to learn english and blend in with the crowd, they just found people who also only spoke their native language and just hung out w/ them, and i can understand that because it obviously makes them feel more comfortable at the start but the problem is that they just stuck with what was comfortable and didn't try and make new mainly english speaking friends. If you expand that out of school, it applies to many immigrants in general; they congregate in areas where they feel comfortable like chinatown or greek town or whatever and then they just stay there without ever branching out or embracing american culture.

The underlying problem in fact seems to be that people don't respect American culture. Take for example that in muslim states women have to cover their faces. When people go there they are expected to conform to this standard in respect for the country they are in and its culture, and for the most part people do. So then why can't immigrants here respect the new country they have just moved to by learning english or playing some good 'ol american football? Just because we are a melting pot of many different races and cultures doesnt mean we havent created our own unique culture. I'm all for celebrating Chinese New Year or Ramadan, or in today's case, St. Patty's day but if immigrants expect us to respect their culture then they should respect ours.

cynicalgrrlll

America was supposeed to be the country for people seeking refuge from their more difficult lives in less free countires. so no some people don't have alot of time to learn English before the flee their war torn countries.

By the way what the hell is amereican Culture? There is no such thing other than regards for thanksgiving and fourth of july, my culture is so mixed from other countries, like most americans are.

cynicalgrrlll

Many illegal immigrants are tax payers as well and don't get to enjoy as many privilages as you do as an American. Case in point my illegal immigrant boyfriend, who has to pay taxes for benefits he will never get to enjoy. so consider what your paying as little, considering illegal immigrants are paying for your social security and not their own

Lebell

And this is my fault your boyfriend is here illegally, using someone elses social security number to work?

I'm sorry, but I didn't ask for him to come here and pay taxes for a program he can't use.

__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

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cynicalgrrlll

immigrants are given social security numbers for work only, by the government and don't obtain them illegally.

And i personally didn't ask to live in a country with people who are so close minded to accepting others. Why would people come here to meess up the place where they live?

cynicalgrrlll

Lebell

First, please point me to a source that says illegal immigrants are "given" social security numbers to work. I won't say I don't believe you, but I am very skeptical.

Second, I know that illegals use stolen SSN numbers, because my HR person had to screen our workers for just such a thing.

And third, I take great exception to having blame for people KILLING Americans thrust on me and "ignorant people like" me, especially since my only supposed "ignorance" is not liking what the vast numbers of illegal immigrants are doing to my country.

Not only is it offensive, but it is ignorant as well. It is ignorant of economic realities of the supply and demand of goods and services. It is ignorant of other cultures that do not welcome foreigners with a fraction of the hospitality that Americans offer legal immigrants. And it is ignorant because honestly, you have no clue who I am or what my background is.

If I had to make a guess, I would say that the real source of your post is that you are offended for your illegal boyfriend.

If that's the case, then I'm sorry. But he is here illegally, and if he gets caught and sent back (presumably to Mexico, but maybe not), then I won't shed a tear for him, because the fault for his and your pain will be squarely on his shoulders, not mine or anyone elses.

__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

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cynicalgrrlll

Mexico, how stereotypical no no he's not from Mexico, and I have always been for immigration, and am currently a political science major who advocates my beliefs to the government and wants to get involed in legistation in order to pass policies in favor of immigration. I have been concerned with this topic for awhile now

Your background its not important and neither is who you are since you started this thread and opended yourself up to opinions that didn't agree with your own.


By the way all illegal immigrants are given social security numbers, like work visas so the US can still get taxes and give them nothing in return, so their taxes can support Americans and other government programs they cannot benefit from


American was "settled" by Puritians from Europe who were trying to escape religious persecution. So now we should tell people to go away? We better also get rid of the Statue of Liberty as well

stevie667

anger check there matey, 'tis a debating forum, not a flaming one, and we're all starting to do our bit to keep it that way. Your argument is also fundamentally flawed, if it could be called an argument, so let the big boys play, and when you stop attacking points that have no relevance to the actual debate itself, then you can join in

personally, as someone from a country with a big immigration problem, i think that it's a double sided problem. i have no beef with real refugees and asylum seakers, people who really have had their lives destroyed, and are willing to start anew. i say c'mon in, have a cup of tea, and lets see if we can get you a job.

what pisses me off though, is people who come barging in from places where they have a life, and demand all kinds of random crap from our government, who thanks to our illustrious leaders, is pretty much stuck with them forever. thats not the only thing however, it's the fact that they don't even bother to try and integrate themselves with society that does it.
i would go to bangladesh, demand that the authorities change all kinds of stuff and give me free money on the basis that i'm new in town, and i resent immigrants doing that here. if you want to come in, fine, just become a member of the british society and behave like one, otherwise you deserve whats coming.
as many people have said many times before, when you pander to petty needs of different cultures inside a larger one, you encourage segregation because people have no need to integrate into the present culture.
i think that all immigrants should be required to speak english, do away with having 50 languages on papers and what not. tough love maybe, but i refuse to let our nation be overrun by people who don't even respect the place they're living, it sickens me quite frankly.

ok, maybe an extremist view, but i'm sick and tired of seeing parts of my hometown taken over by immigrants that quite simply, shouldn't even be there in the first place, let alone thinking that they any rights because they are.

but, saying that, we have to sort out a system to find out who can be allowed in and who can't. we should provide good care, food, medicines, and all those other needs in a secure enviroment that won't foster racial discord. i'm sure some of the shetland islands are still empty

Pacifier

since I think this guy is somewhat connected to Samuel Huntington. he probalby belives that the american culture is "white, british and protestant"

whatever that is

__________________
"It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death
— Albert Einstein

stevie667

ahh, that my laddie is irish, toi toi toi.

cynicalgrrlll

Well actually the lovely Lebell, began the flaming and I just followed suit. And I think a good many points of your "big boy arguments" are bollocks.

I enjoy how on TFP, people only accuse you of flaming if you don't agree with them, I considered Lebell's quotes of assuming my SO was Mexican because he was an immigrant and the assumption that I'm only posting due to that fact my SO is one and Lebell being under the assumption that he would be to blame for getting deported etc.

These online arguments are so one sided, thtat's why it cracks me up everytime members of TFP claim to be open minded, because they can talk openly about sex but are otherwise closed off to any othere type of debate

cynicalgrrlll

FAMOUS ARAB AMERICANS

Christa McAuliffe, school teacher killed aboard Challenger space shuttle

Candy Lightner, founder of MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving)

Ralph Nader, consumer advocate and prsidential candidate

Doug Flutie, former Boston College quarterback and 1984 Heisman Trophy winner

James Jabara, US Air Force Colonel and Korean War jet ace

Casey Kasem, radio personality and former host of "American Top 40"

Dr. Michael DeBakey, Houston heart surgeon, inventor of the heart pump

Danny Thomas, late comedian, actor and founder of St. Jude's Children's Research Hospital

Dr. Elias Corey, winner of 1990 Nobel Prize for Chemistry

George Joulwan, West Point graduate and 4 Star General

Kahlil Gibran, author of The Prophet

Steven Naifeh, winner of 1990 Pulitzer Prize for Literature

F. Murray Abraham, winner of Best Actor Oscar for the movie Amadeus

Callie Khouri, winner of Best Original Screenplay Oscar for the movie Thelma and Louise

Paul Orfalea, founder of Kinko's copying store chain

John Sununu, former White House Chief of Staff

Paul Anka, singer, songwriter and former teen idol

Jamie Farr, actor who portrayed Corporal Klinger on M*A*S*H* TV show

Marlo Thomas, Emmy award winning actress, star of TV's "That Girl" and daughter of Danny Thomas

Vic Tayback, actor who portrayed Mel in TV's "Alice"

George Mitchell (D-ME), retired US Senate Majority Leader

Helen Thomas, former Dean of White House Press Corps

Donna Shalala, former Secretary of Health and Human Resources

cynicalgrrlll

AMERICANS FROM GERMANY

Josef and Anni Albers

John Peter Altgeld

John Jacob Astor

Albert Bierstadt

Werner von Braun

Adolphus Busch

Charlie Chaplin, actor, producer, director

Rudolf Dirks & the Katzenjammer Kids.

Albert Einstein

Karl Follen

Lou Gehrig

Manfred George

Walter Gropius

Oscar Hammerstein, musical composer and songwriter
Friedrich Hecker

Abraham Jacobi

Johan de Kalb

Henry A. Kissinger

Jakob Leisler

Emanuel Leutze

Francis Lieber

Ernst Lubitsch

Ottmar Mergenthaler

Christian Metz

John O. Meusebach

Heinrich Melchior Muhlenberg and sons Johan Peter Gabriel and
Frederick Augustus Conrad

Friedrich Muench

Thomas Nast

Anna Ottendorfer

Erwin Panofsky

Franz Daniel Pastorius and the protest against US slavery

Adolph Rickenbacker. Constructed the first electric guitar!

Johann Augustus Roebling

Ludwig Mies van der Rohe

George Hermann "Babe" Rut, baseball player, The Great Bambino

Johann Paul Schott

Carl Schurz and the 1848ers

Martin Schwarzschild

Charles Proteus Steinmetz

Heinrich Steinway, sons John, Theodore, Henry
Friedrich Wilhelm von Steuben

Levi Strauss-founder of Levi's blue jeans

Johann August Sutter and the Gold Rush

John Studebaker

Paul Tillich

Henry Villard

Robert Wagner

Bruno Walter

Lawrence Welk

Kurt Weill

Friedrich Weyerhaeuser

Johan Peter Zenger

cynicalgrrlll

FAMOUS MEXICAN AMERICANS

Christina Aguilera, singer, Grammy winner

Isabel Allende, writer

Roberto Alomar, baseball player

Aida Alvarez, First Women to head the U.S. Small Business Organization

Julia Alvarez, writer

Luis Walter Alvarez, Nobel Prize-winning physicist

Rudolfo Anaya, writer

Marc Anthony, singer

Desi Arnaz, actor, producer

Judy Baca, artist

Joan Baez, folk singer and activist

Jean-Michel Basquiat, artist

Antonio Banderas, actor

Ruben Blades, musician, composer, actor

Jose Canseco, baseball player

Mariah Carey, singer, Grammy winner

Cesar Chavez, Labor leader

Linda Chavez, Conservative commentator

Linda Chavez-Thompson, Labor Leader

Henry Cisneros, U.S. Secretary of Housing and Urban Development

Sandra Cisneros, Critically Acclaimed Writer

Roberto Clemente, baseball player

Celia Cruz, artist

Penelope Cruz, actress

Sammy Davis, Jr., singer, actor, Rat Pack member

Oscar De La Hoya, boxer

Dolores Del Rio, actress

Benicio Del Toro, actor, Oscar nominee

Cameron Diaz, actress

Gloria Estefan, pop singer, Grammy Winner

Emilio Estevez, actor/son; Charlie Sheen, actor/son; Martin Sheen, actor/father

David Glasgow Farragut

Lisa Fernandez, softball player

Andy Garcia, actor

Rupert Garcia, artist

Nomar Garciappara, baseball player

Roberto C. Goizueta, businessman

Scott Gomez, hockey player

Pancho Gonzalez, tennis player

Salma Hayek, actress, Oscar nominee

Rita Hayworth, actress

Antonia Hernández, president and general counsel for the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund (MALDEF)

Oscar Hijuelos, writer

Maria Hinojosa, journalist

Delores Huerta, Labor Leader

Enrique Iglesias, singer, Grammy nominee

Julio Iglesias, singer, Grammy winner

Raul Julia, actor

John Leguizamo,actor, comedian

Tania León, singer

Jennifer Lopez, actress, singer

Nancy Lopez, golfer

Trini Lopez, singer

Juan Marichal, baseball player

Ricky Martin, singer, Grammy nominee

Melquiades Martinez, U.S. Secretary for Housing and Urban Development

Pedro Martinez, baseball player

Mario Molina, Nobel Prize-winning chemist

Ricardo Montalban, actor

Rita Moreno, actress, singer, dancer

Anthony Munoz, football player

Carlos Noriega, astronaut

Antonia Novello, U.S. Surgeon General

Ellen Ochoa, astronaut

Severo Ochoa, Nobel Prize-winning biochemist

Edward James Olmos, actor

Rosie Perez, actress, dancer, choreographer, activist

Tito Puente, musician

Anthony Quinn, actor

Manny Ramirez, baseball player

Alex Rodriquez, baseball player

Chi Chi Rodriquez, golfer

Michelle Rodriguez, actress

Linda Ronstadt, singer

John Ruiz, boxer

Alberto Salazar, marathoner

Carlos Santana, singer, guitarist, Grammy winner

Selena, singer, Grammy winner

Junipero Serra, missionary

Richard Serra, sculptor

Shakira, singer

Jimmy Smits, actor

Sammy Sosa, baseball player

Gary Soto, writer

Lupe Velez, actress

Nydia Velasquez, U.S. Representative

cynicalgrrlll

Have I made my point yet or should I go on?

ShadowWraith

Um yeah, sorry i dont get the point of posting those huge long lists. I totally agree that many immigrants have contributed alot to society but thats not the issue. I also take offense to being called a redneck or ignorant and that you accuse us of not accepting different cultures. As i stated in my previous post i am all too happy to accept any new cultures by celebrating their holidays, trying their food, whatever. The real issue seems to be the way that we have to bend our society to accomodate the demands of some immigrants instead of them making a small effort to respect the culture of the new country they live in by at the very least, learning english. Again, i say some in case i'm being "ignorant" again.

Also, i have searched for any mention of illegal immigrants getting SSN's but i honestly can't find anything. I know that workers from different countries can apply for work visa's like the HB-1 or the old TD and that they are then issused a SSN but i have never heard of illegal immigrants getting one. If you would point me towards a credible source that says there is such a thing i will be more then happy to admit i'm wrong, but why would they still be considered ILLEGAL immigrants if they are registered by the government?

cynicalgrrlll

I'm not calling you ignorant or a redneck, but immigrants that are stilled considered illegal can have work social security numbers, but have no standing as an American citizen. They just get to pay taxes. The government is well aware we have illegal immigrants living here and allow them to work and won't deport them as long as they pay taxes and don't cause a stir

Here look it up, lawful noncitizens getting social security
http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10096.html

Lebell

According to the SSA website:

If you do not qualify for an SNN (e.g. you don't have legal status):


From the linked IRS website re: ITIN's


So apparently, if you have to provide a tax number to work, you can get an ITIN from the IRS.

The IRS won't dig too deep into your legal status.

This is vastly different from what was claimed.

__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

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Lebell

I will address this directly and then let other's handle the other implications of the post.

That's why I said, "presumably Mexico, maybe not".

I don't recall anywhere where I questioned how long you've been concerned with the topic, but I did state that you were ignorant of certain realities, something you haven't disproven to me.

Do you always sexually harass men when you get into arguments with them?

I see.

So while you jump to wild conclussions about who I am without bothering to ask, you on the other hand volunteer some of who you are, even though I didn't ask.

Wrong assumption again. No, that isn't why I'm here.

I don't know. Maybe for the same reasons I don't throw into the thread why I like cats, how I think US energy policy needs serious revamping, etc. (i.e. that isn't what this thread is about).

Actually, I've followed your links and you are incorrect, as I explained above.

You are full of anger, but that doesn't excuse attacking other board members.

And while I'm not expecting a bouquet of roses from you, I would appreciate some respect for the fact that I donate my time to make this a good place to be, instead of scorn for my efforts.

Your ignorance of history (and again, of my own background) not withstanding, other than going on an angry rant for several posts, you've done nothing in terms of reasonable debate to convince me that I'm wrong.


(edit: fixed vB quote tag)

__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

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Tomservo

Simply put, your stance, CG, is wrong. Nothing on any of these sites (And here's one of my own) claims that *illegal* immigrants have any right to a SSN:

http://www.visalaw.com/03jun4/2jun403.html

If your boyfriend is an illegal immigrant, well, he should get his ass in gear and apply for LEGAL immigrant/US Citizen status, and then you won't hear a peep out of anyone. US citizens can be whatever they wanna be, and in the majority of the USA a mix of cultures is welcomed and appreciated. But when the "mix" of cultures just means you can no longer speak English, that's not much of a "mix", is it?

On the other hand, I dislike the fact that New York and Boston boroughs can be(and have been) predominantly Jewish, Irish, Puerto-Rican, Italian, so on, and somehow that's acceptable... while having highly Mexican or Cuban populations is somehow unacceptable. Certainly the amount of illegal immigration has taken an upturn in the last decade, but why blame the immigrants' culture for their illegal actions? I dislike having to learn Spanish to survive in the Valley, but I don't want to deny anyone an opportunity to succeed.

One other note, CG- your lists are ridiculous. Every thinking individual knows that the USA is a cultural melting pot. Hell, my family could fall into lists of German, Irish, Italian, Mexican, Native American, and probably some Northern European cultures... but you don't see me screaming about Irish rights and great Italians. No, I'm more concerned with AMERICA, and I'm hoping the next generation of immigrants will also be concerned with America. Is that too much to ask?

Besides, if you're looking to pick a fight with some conservatives, you've officially (as of a few days ago) come to the wrong place.