Vets thoughts of Sen. Kerry - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Rekna · 03-08-2004, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by irateplatypus
oh man, don't get all wishy-washy on me here...

john kerry lied to congress.

Didn't Bush lie to congress, the UN, and the American people?

But wait that isn't nearly as bad as Clinton lieing to his wife.

Lebell · 03-08-2004, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rekna
Didn't Bush lie to congress, the UN, and the American people?

But wait that isn't nearly as bad as Clinton lieing to his wife.

First, this thread isn't about Bush or Clinton, it's about Kerry.

Second, if you are talking about Bush and WMD's, then not only Bush lied, but so did Clinton, Gore and all the other democrats who said Saddam had WMD's (the quotes have been posted 3 or 4 times).

filtherton · 03-08-2004, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by irateplatypus
if you believe there is, then you must either support or condemn both sides.

I think it is very hypocritical to call the other guy out for doing something when you have no problem with your guy doing it.

Both sides: playing stupid political shell games.

yatzr · 03-08-2004, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mml

Of course if you really want, you can take my word for it and Vote John Kerry in November.

Sorry, I didn't explain why kerry is anti-american. He lead a rally of which they used viet cong flags and posters of Communist Party hack Angela Davis. He conned veterans into throwing away their medals only to keep his own. He said there were no pow's left in vietnam (although there was credible evidence that there were still pow's) so Hanoi would make a business deal with his cousin. This next part's so good I hafta quote it and post the link.

http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/Art...e.asp?ID=11866

Quote:

The communist Daily World delightedly published photos of him speaking to demonstrators and boasted that the marchers displayed a banner depicting a portrait of Communist Party leader Angela Davis, on record stating, “I am dedicated to the overthrow of your system of government and your society,” the New American remembered in May 2003.
“By frequently participating in VVAW’s demonstrations, Kerry found himself marching alongside what the Boston Herald Traveler identified as ‘revolutionary Communists.’ While noting that known Reds had openly organized these events, the December 12, 1971, Herald Traveler reported the presence of an ‘abundance of Vietcong flags, clenched fists raised in the air, and placards plainly bearing legends in support of China, Cuba, the USSR, North Korea and the Hanoi government.’”

Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry says: “As a national leader of VVAW, Kerry campaigned against the effort of the United States to contain the spread of Communism. He used the blood of servicemen still in the field for his own political advancement by claiming that their blood was being shed unnecessarily or in vain.

“Under Kerry's leadership, VVAW members mocked the uniform of United States soldiers by wearing tattered fatigues marked with pro-Communist graffiti. They dishonored America by marching in demonstrations under the flag of the Viet Cong enemy.”

Sen. John McCain revealed that his North Vietnamese captors had used reports of Kerry-led protests to taunt him and his fellow prisoners. Retired General George S. Patton III angrily noted that Kerry’s actions had “given aid and comfort to the enemy.”

In recent years when Kerry has exploited the Vietnam Veterans Memorial for photo opportunities on Veterans Day, some veterans, still outraged by his betrayal, have turned their backs on him.

There's a lot of other good stuff there too, including his book "The New Soldier" which just kind of disappeared when he ran for senate.

So basically, Kerry is a communist or at least damn close to it. I've always considered America to be anti-communist so that would make Kerry anti-american.

filtherton · 03-08-2004, 01:26 PM

Kerry is a communist??

hmm, sounds rather erroneous.

I suppose you'd have no problem comparing bush to a nazi then, right?

I think it is way too easy to earn the "anti-american" label these days.

yatzr · 03-08-2004, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by filtherton

I suppose you'd have no problem comparing bush to a nazi then, right?

when bush starts waving the nazi flag and hanging out with neo-nazis then no i wouldn't have a problem comparing him to a nazi. the difference is that kerry already did those things

pan6467 · 03-08-2004, 02:04 PM

See this is why the USA is falling apart.

Are there any true issues being debated? Nope just a bunch of name calling back and forth.

People who say that character and a person's actions 30-35 years ago matter, are the same people that can't face the issues because they realize thier candidate doesn't stand for what they do.

Both sides are guilty.

Now if our country truly had a great leader but he saw all this mudslinging and hatred and uncalled for searches, innuendoes and flat out lies about his past, do you really believe he would still run?

Hell no. Noone has an innocent past. WE HAVE ALL FUCKED UP AND BURNT BRIDGES AND DONE THINGS WE AREN'T PROUD OF.

I also get tired of hearing the excuse "well I'm not running for office like this guy is". Like 30 years ago either of these men thought they truly had a chance. (Well maybe Bush, but I doubt it).

As a vet it pisses me off to hear people try to disgrace Kerry's duty. What he did afterward, alot of Nam vets did. For some reason you Righties want to act like 'Nam was some great honor to be in and no man had a right to talk about his perspective when he came back. Sorry, BUT HIS BEING THERE GAVE HIM EVERY RIGHT TO SAY WHATEVER HE WANTED ABOUT THE POLICE ACTION (ANOTHER FALLACY IS CALLING IT A WAR).

VIETNAM WAS AN ILLEGAL, NASTY, FEED THE WAR MACHINE, DISGRACE, AND FOR ANYONE TO SAY OTHERWISE TODAY WHEN 30 YEARS AGO THEY DODGED AND PROTESTED NAM ALSO. (HOW DID LIMBAUGH, O'REILLY, ANY OF THESE CRITICS OF KERRY SERVE? AND YET THEY WANT TO JUDGE THE MAN AND TOTALLY IGNORE, EVADE OR LIE ABOUT THE TRUE ISSUES?) CAN ANYONE ELSE SMELL THE BULLSHIT.

Just so no one can say I'm one sided.

FOR THE LEFT TO WORK SO FUCKING HARD TO TRY TO DIG UP WHETHER W WAS AWOL OR SERVED OR MISSED BUT WAS EXCUSED OR WHATEVER IS PIOUS BULLSHIT ALSO. WHILE THE LEFT AT LEAST FACE SOME ISSUES THEY HAVE SPENT MORE TIME TRYING TO FIND BUSH'S MILITARY RECORDS. WHO CARES? FUCK THE RECORDS BE ABOVE THE NAME CALLING AND MUDSLINGING AND ARGUE THE ISSUES. IF YOU DO YOU'LL WIN BECAUSE THE RIGHT CAN'T FIGHT AND WIN ON THE ISSUES THEY NEVER COULD, THEY BULLY AND TRY TO RELY ON DIRTY POLITICS AND NAMECALLING.

Ok I'm done my bp is too high. I just can't believe that this day and age we have political parties, politicians and media people acting like kids in a sandbox. We all need to be fucking scared if that is how we want our politicians to be.

Lebell · 03-08-2004, 02:09 PM

Anyone who thinks that mudslinging is new, doesn't know the history of political campagning. (sp? and I'm too lazy atm to look it up)

Calling Bush a "Nazi" or Kerry a "Communist" is actually pretty tame in comparision to some old campagnes.

irateplatypus · 03-08-2004, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pan6467
THE RECORDS BE ABOVE THE NAME CALLING AND MUDSLINGING AND ARGUE THE ISSUES. IF YOU DO YOU'LL WIN BECAUSE THE RIGHT CAN'T FIGHT AND WIN ON THE ISSUES THEY NEVER COULD, THEY BULLY AND TRY TO RELY ON DIRTY POLITICS AND NAMECALLING.

i can smell the bullshit also. but it's also raining buckets of irony.

mml · 03-08-2004, 02:26 PM

I don't really mind "dirty campaigning". I would certainly like a debate on the issues and a frank discussion about where this country is and where it is going, but the vast majority of the American electorate doesn't really care about this. Reality and history say that mudslinging works, we eat it up and slop it down like pigs. It is just human nature, and if Kerry can't defend himself from being called a Communist ( a clearly false and sophomoric statement) then he has no business running for president. The same can be said for calling Bush a Nazi.

I would also like to give kudos to pan6467 for the "Rant" . You are right on the money. Let's take a look their pasts, consider them and then move on to what they are doing today. (If I want to paint Bush as a silver-spoon, combat evaiding , coke-snorting drunk I guess I could but he clearly is not that today, so why?)

pan6467 · 03-08-2004, 02:34 PM

No, agreed there has always been mudslinging, BUT you ask retired politicians, and on BOTH SIDES they have said that today is worse than what they experienced 20-30 years ago.

Issues were argued. No issues are argued now, just mudslinging. The press is the biggest culprit at fault, they no that gossip and this shit sells better than if they broadcast issues.

I remember 4 years ago. The most talked about thing coming from the debates were not about any issue, but how Gore came across as a know it all and stiff. Hell most people probably didn't even remember what issues were discussed 2 days later but they remembered the Gore issue because it was all that was talked about on Limbaugh and others.

I just think by saying the name calling happened in the past is a bad excuse for allowing it to continue while the issues are ignored.

filtherton · 03-08-2004, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yatzr
when bush starts waving the nazi flag and hanging out with neo-nazis then no i wouldn't have a problem comparing him to a nazi. the difference is that kerry already did those things

You miss the point. Calling kerry a communist is ridiculous. As ridiculous as calling bush a nazi. It is a convenient strawman tool for those who lack valid criticisms.
I find it really hard to believe that anyone except the most blindly diehard antidemocrat could claim with a straight face that kerry is a communist.

Admit it, you hate the man.

yatzr · 03-08-2004, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by filtherton
You miss the point. Calling kerry a communist is ridiculous. As ridiculous as calling bush a nazi. It is a convenient strawman tool for those who lack valid criticisms.
I find it really hard to believe that anyone except the most blindly diehard antidemocrat could claim with a straight face that kerry is a communist.

Admit it, you hate the man.

no, i think you're missing my point that kerry has done a lot of stuff to denounce america and support communism. It's not like I'm calling him a communist out of the blue. To tell you the truth I was gonna vote for the democratic candidate because I think we can get a better president than bush. Kerry, however, is not that man. Whether I hate the man or not isn't going to change the fact that the things he did and the stuff he's said suggest to the world that he is a communist or at least a supporter of it. I'm sorry, but the man just scares me.

03-08-2004, 02:04 PM	#47 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	See this is why the USA is falling apart. Are there any true issues being debated? Nope just a bunch of name calling back and forth. People who say that character and a person's actions 30-35 years ago matter, are the same people that can't face the issues because they realize thier candidate doesn't stand for what they do. Both sides are guilty. Now if our country truly had a great leader but he saw all this mudslinging and hatred and uncalled for searches, innuendoes and flat out lies about his past, do you really believe he would still run? Hell no. Noone has an innocent past. WE HAVE ALL FUCKED UP AND BURNT BRIDGES AND DONE THINGS WE AREN'T PROUD OF. I also get tired of hearing the excuse "well I'm not running for office like this guy is". Like 30 years ago either of these men thought they truly had a chance. (Well maybe Bush, but I doubt it). As a vet it pisses me off to hear people try to disgrace Kerry's duty. What he did afterward, alot of Nam vets did. For some reason you Righties want to act like 'Nam was some great honor to be in and no man had a right to talk about his perspective when he came back. Sorry, BUT HIS BEING THERE GAVE HIM EVERY RIGHT TO SAY WHATEVER HE WANTED ABOUT THE POLICE ACTION (ANOTHER FALLACY IS CALLING IT A WAR). VIETNAM WAS AN ILLEGAL, NASTY, FEED THE WAR MACHINE, DISGRACE, AND FOR ANYONE TO SAY OTHERWISE TODAY WHEN 30 YEARS AGO THEY DODGED AND PROTESTED NAM ALSO. (HOW DID LIMBAUGH, O'REILLY, ANY OF THESE CRITICS OF KERRY SERVE? AND YET THEY WANT TO JUDGE THE MAN AND TOTALLY IGNORE, EVADE OR LIE ABOUT THE TRUE ISSUES?) CAN ANYONE ELSE SMELL THE BULLSHIT. Just so no one can say I'm one sided. FOR THE LEFT TO WORK SO FUCKING HARD TO TRY TO DIG UP WHETHER W WAS AWOL OR SERVED OR MISSED BUT WAS EXCUSED OR WHATEVER IS PIOUS BULLSHIT ALSO. WHILE THE LEFT AT LEAST FACE SOME ISSUES THEY HAVE SPENT MORE TIME TRYING TO FIND BUSH'S MILITARY RECORDS. WHO CARES? FUCK THE RECORDS BE ABOVE THE NAME CALLING AND MUDSLINGING AND ARGUE THE ISSUES. IF YOU DO YOU'LL WIN BECAUSE THE RIGHT CAN'T FIGHT AND WIN ON THE ISSUES THEY NEVER COULD, THEY BULLY AND TRY TO RELY ON DIRTY POLITICS AND NAMECALLING. Ok I'm done my bp is too high. I just can't believe that this day and age we have political parties, politicians and media people acting like kids in a sandbox. We all need to be fucking scared if that is how we want our politicians to be. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

03-08-2004, 02:09 PM	#48 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	Anyone who thinks that mudslinging is new, doesn't know the history of political campagning. (sp? and I'm too lazy atm to look it up) Calling Bush a "Nazi" or Kerry a "Communist" is actually pretty tame in comparision to some old campagnes. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

03-08-2004, 02:26 PM	#50 (permalink)
mml Adrift Location: Wandering in the Desert of Life	I don't really mind "dirty campaigning". I would certainly like a debate on the issues and a frank discussion about where this country is and where it is going, but the vast majority of the American electorate doesn't really care about this. Reality and history say that mudslinging works, we eat it up and slop it down like pigs. It is just human nature, and if Kerry can't defend himself from being called a Communist ( a clearly false and sophomoric statement) then he has no business running for president. The same can be said for calling Bush a Nazi. I would also like to give kudos to pan6467 for the "Rant" . You are right on the money. Let's take a look their pasts, consider them and then move on to what they are doing today. (If I want to paint Bush as a silver-spoon, combat evaiding , coke-snorting drunk I guess I could but he clearly is not that today, so why?) __________________ Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." -Douglas Adams

03-08-2004, 02:34 PM	#51 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	No, agreed there has always been mudslinging, BUT you ask retired politicians, and on BOTH SIDES they have said that today is worse than what they experienced 20-30 years ago. Issues were argued. No issues are argued now, just mudslinging. The press is the biggest culprit at fault, they no that gossip and this shit sells better than if they broadcast issues. I remember 4 years ago. The most talked about thing coming from the debates were not about any issue, but how Gore came across as a know it all and stiff. Hell most people probably didn't even remember what issues were discussed 2 days later but they remembered the Gore issue because it was all that was talked about on Limbaugh and others. I just think by saying the name calling happened in the past is a bad excuse for allowing it to continue while the issues are ignored. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

03-08-2004, 01:26 PM	#45 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	Kerry is a communist?? hmm, sounds rather erroneous. I suppose you'd have no problem comparing bush to a nazi then, right? I think it is way too easy to earn the "anti-american" label these days.