Coulter & Hannity...pretty Embarassing regardless of race, creed, color or Politics - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Strange Famous · 02-17-2004, 03:31 PM

Jane Fonda should be tried for treason?

And here was I thinking this was a serious debate!

Again, I think we should try Bush on his record as "president", not on whether or not he did his national guard duty thirty years ago - whether he did or dint is a non-issue to me, who he was then, he is no longer.

Mojo_PeiPei · 02-17-2004, 03:39 PM

Ustwo is right, that bitch should hang for providing aid and comfort to the enemy, and for needlessly and purposely putting our troops to death and in harm's way. What she did is just atrocious and one can only hope that she gets hers in the end.
http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.htm

Quote:

"They, however, had time and devised a plan to get word to the world that they still survived. Each man secreted a tiny piece of paper, with his Social Security number on it, in the palm of his hand. When paraded before Ms. Fonda and a cameraman, she walked the line, shaking each man's hand and asking little encouraging snippets like, 'Aren't you sorry you bombed babies?' and, 'Are you grateful for the humane treatment from your benevolent captors?'"

"Believing this HAD to be an act, they each palmed her their sliver of paper. She took them all without missing a beat. At the end of the line and once the camera stopped rolling, to the shocked disbelief of the POWs, she turned to the officer in charge ... and handed him the little pile of notes.

"Three men died from the subsequent beatings.

(edited)oops, misread post above, sorry**

Kadath · 02-17-2004, 05:26 PM

And now we're on Jane Fonda somehow?

Lebell · 02-17-2004, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mojo_PeiPei
Ustwo is right, that bitch should hang for providing aid and comfort to the enemy, and for needlessly and purposely putting our troops to death and in harm's way. What she did is just atrocious and one can only hope that she gets hers in the end.
http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.htm

(edited)oops, misread post above, sorry**

I agree, how did we get on Hanoi Jane?

Anyway, that part of the story is false.

From further down on the snopes page:

Quote:

The most serious accusations in the piece quoted above -- that Fonda turned over slips of paper furtively given her by American POWS to the North Vietnamese and that several POWs were beaten to death as a result -- are proveably untrue. Those named in the inflammatory e-mail categorically deny the events they supposedly were part of.

"It's a figment of somebody's imagination," says Ret. Col. Larry Carrigan, one of the servicemen mentioned in the 'slips of paper' incident. Carrigan was shot down over North Vietnam in 1967 and did spend time in a POW camp. He has no idea why the story was attributed to him. "I never met Jane Fonda."

Ustwo · 02-18-2004, 12:42 PM

I'm still waiting for what Sean Hannity has to do with this.

JumpinJesus · 02-18-2004, 03:54 PM

I'm still trying to figure out who wrote the piece. Did Ann Coulter write it or did Sean Hannity write it? I couldn't find an author's name on it anywhere. Am I blind?

I've got a better idea. How about instead of all this campaigning and "who did what, when, and with who" and other political bullshit, we get the candidates onstage, have them drop their pants, and whoever has the biggest dick wins. Think of the time, money, and headaches this would save. It would be about as relevant as all the posturing the candidates do.

I'd put my money on Ann Coulter. That's not libelous, is it?

But then, I'm sure we'd be hearing about penis enlargement scandals.

Sparhawk · 02-19-2004, 02:52 AM

Once again, I'm pretty sure Hannity wrote it, and it was posted on Coulter's website (because it couldn't get printed anywhere else, perhaps)

Tophat665 · 02-19-2004, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sparhawk
Is there something wrong with that woman?

Is there anything right with that woman?

I think not.

Ustwo · 02-19-2004, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tophat665
Is there anything right with that woman?

I think not.

Her vicious hate mongering and innuendo is no different then what I see ELECTED representatives doing on the left.

Its ok to call GWB a deserter (punishable by death) or AWOL (by imprisonment), even in the halls of congress, for no other reason then to cast doubt in the less informed American eyes, despite all this having been settled long before by the NYT of all places. And its not just this issue, but dozens. Hell Bush's people do one add showing the Kerry has received more special interest money then ANY other senator (true) and he comes out saying how all GWB has are smears and not his (Kerry's) great message. Never mind they have been smearing, lying and saying anything and EVERYTHING bad about GWB they could for the last year trying to get the nomination. The same party that had a cartoon of GWB pushing an old lady down the stairs on the DNC web site, has no business whining about anything done to them.

Ann Coulter is a private citizen who struck a cord with millions of people who just want to hear someone, anyone, on there side fighting back. Perhaps if some of the democrats weren't so blatant in their smears and lies, people would not feel the desire to read her books, articles, and listen to her interviews.

Superbelt · 02-19-2004, 07:16 AM

I doubt Anthrax "strikes a cord" with millions of people. Tens of thousands, maybe 100k. But not millions The woman is vile, evil, a serial liar and the definition of the word "hypocrite"

Her book sales are the way they are because she gets massive help from rich conservative backers and book clubs who will do anything to see a conservative book rise to the top of the best seller charts. Her book has the asterix for abnormally large bulk purchases on it every single week.
And she enjoys a measure of national attention because she has friends in high places who keep placing her in front of the camera, like Sean Hannity.

pan6467 · 02-19-2004, 07:31 AM

It's funny when you listen to Al Franken in interviews. He talks about when he was writing his book, "Lying Liars ....." that he went to Republican friends and asked them what they thought.

He says a majority wouldn't say much about anyone until he got to Ann Coulter. He says every one of them said, "She's a nutcase".

I truly wish someone would tell me how we are a better country when our 2 parties are so busy destroying the other and not doing what we elect them to do.

It boggles my mind.

Of course in Washington's farewell address he talked how partisan politics would destroy our country. Took 200+ years but it looks like the partisan politics not only has destroyed our country but is infecting the rest of the world. Instead of leading by example, we lead by spreading fear and anger and hatred of our country. Instead of having the best of everything (roads, jobs, healthcare, etc.) we have rich corporations determining policy, a president in an unconstitutional war (that every few months he changes the reason for our being there), an educational system that is bankrupt (therefore we cannot train our children for the new jobs that are coming), a standard of living not even in the top 10, the highest infant mortality rate in the developed countries, at least 2/3 of all bridges throughout the country overstressed and needing repaired.

Why can we not work on the problems? WHY CAN WE NOT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP THE FUCKING PARTISAN FIGHTING AND ACTUALLY WORK TO MAKE OUR NATION GREAT AGAIN? USE THE ENERGY YOU ARE USING FOR THE HATE AND REPLACE IT WITH COMMON DECENCY AND TRUE PATRIOTISM (THAT IS WANTING TO BETTER YOUR COUNTRY NOT JUST BLINDLY AGREEING WITH YOUR PARTY).

Fucking amazing how people have let the press turn thier focus off the TRUE issues. Aw well when it starts hitting people and the economy collapses and we are lucky to get 20 cents on the dollar at a bank maybe people will see. The only thing saving our asses now are our nukes.

Ustwo · 02-19-2004, 08:16 AM

For almost all the major democrats party > country.

For about 1/2 the major republicans party > country.

Saddly I see more and more republicans slipping into the party first mode.

Superbelt · 02-19-2004, 08:27 AM

My God you are baised.

Even in that you can't help but take a shot at democrats.

That's the exact thing that pan is talking about.

Lebell · 02-19-2004, 10:00 AM

I think it is impossible to NOT be biased, try as we all might.

Superbelt · 02-19-2004, 10:45 AM

Ooh I'm sure. Hell I know I am biased. There are people and ideas I immediately turn off to as soon as they are brought up.
I can acknowledge those issues too.

But some people have an unbelieveable slant.

The way I take Ustwo's last post is that Democrats are entirely partisan. Incredibly partisan and thus a source of a majority of the problem discussed.
But Republicans are only about half that way, though "they are slipping" Still there is that 1/2 bit of nobility there that is supposedly above the fray. The good people.
But democrats are rotten to the core. Incapable of independent thought.

Right. There's a reason the Democratic party is called the Big Tent. We are incredibly fractured. We can barely ever agree on anything let along be gung ho for the party.

If we were as Ustwo says we are Gore would be president today. Nader would have been a non-factor.

But I expect no less from Ustwo, to him, Democrats and liberals are ill equiped to govern, espouse all the wrong ideas and at times actually have ideas and policies that are overtly or covertly evil.

I may not like most of the leadership of the Republican party, but I would never assume that 1/3 of this nation is absolutely inept or rotten.

pan6467 · 02-19-2004, 10:45 AM

Bias can be a good thing though because from it we can LEARN from the other side what can make the GROUP as a whole stronger. It's when bias is played into prejudice that it becomes evil. That is what the 2 parties are doing now. Turning bias into hatred instead of learning.

USTWO.... to believe what you have said would be ludicrous. There are very very good men on both sides of the aisle that would like to see us live up to our potential.

The problem is when you have 2 parties fighting like we do the voices of reason are ridiculed and because of the way society is today, unheard because they contain no scandal or hatred.

Both parties are as much to blame as both parties are innocent. A 2 party system works when both parties work for the common good. A 2 party system will only destroy that which they say they want to improve by constantly fighting and not listening to the other. By your statement alone, USTWO, you are saying that Democrats should not be heard.

That IS the problem, because right now when 1 party dominates and is so power hungry for more, the lesser party has to fight just to be heard.

If the GOP were so great a party they would not attack the Dems like they do. The GOP has all the power, why then are they acting like they do? If they want all the power then should we not be scared as to why? If they are afraid of the Dems. then should we not ask why?

Strange Famous · 02-20-2004, 10:50 AM

The strange thing is, the Democrat and Republican parties are so close on nearly all matters of policy, there is no fundamental ideological difference between them. Perhaps this is why American politics is so full of smear tactics, because the only thing that can differentiate the Democrat and Republican candidate is personality?

onetime2 · 02-20-2004, 11:39 AM

Interesting how many people attack Ustwo when, to be for one party or the other, each of us has gauged the other party to be lacking in some way or another. Ustwo's opinion is as valid as anyone elses. It is an opinion and everyone is entitled to one (or several).

Obviously there are very good people on both sides of the aisle. If it was all about how good the people were, we would never talk about policy. When it comes down to it, it's about electing people who will support the majority of your standpoints and who you don't find personally repugnent.

onetime2 · 02-20-2004, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Strange Famous
The strange thing is, the Democrat and Republican parties are so close on nearly all matters of policy, there is no fundamental ideological difference between them. Perhaps this is why American politics is so full of smear tactics, because the only thing that can differentiate the Democrat and Republican candidate is personality?

There are serious ideological differences within the parties. Abortion, social & environmental programs/initiatives, free market vs government control, etc.

The reason the smear tactics are so prevalent is the apathy of voters and the need to really fire someone up to get them off their asses to go to the polls and/or to shift their support from one candidate to another.

There aren't that many issues that an individual voter really cares about and many opinions on which party is best for these issues are pretty well set in stone. This drives both sides to find more personal issues to shift support.

onetime2 · 02-20-2004, 11:46 AM

Oops, hit "Quote" instead of "Edit".

Strange Famous · 02-20-2004, 11:57 AM

1, Abortion - presidents of both parties have made little change to abortion laws as far as I am aware

2, free market vs government control - both parties are clearly and openly capitalist. Neither party supports state owned enterprise, enforced worker democracy, or the nationalisation of key industries

3, environmentalism - both Clinton and Bush have been heavily criticised by the rest of the world for not doing enough in this area.

4, social policy - neither party supports a complete, cradle to the grave national health service, both parties support some kind of limited welfare "safety net", neither part supports massive spending on public services and a huge programme of taxation on the assets of the rich

These are the ideologicla differences that matter, that people care about. Both the Democratc and Republicians agree on the basic ideology of their parties the only arguments are on how to manage these policies.

onetime2 · 02-20-2004, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Strange Famous

These are the ideologicla differences that matter, that people care about. Both the Democratc and Republicians agree on the basic ideology of their parties the only arguments are on how to manage these policies.

There are those who think the Republican party is out to gut social programs and those who think the Democrats want to expand them. There are those who think the Republicans will appoint Supreme Court justices who will overturn Roe V. Wade and those who are out to stop them.

The world has a long way to go in terms of environnmentalism and world policy is not the deciding factor for most American voters.

The points of contention you list are the ideological differences that you care about, not what the voters of America care about. You will never see a widespread movement to have the government take over industry.

Strange Famous · 02-20-2004, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by onetime2

The points of contention you list are the ideological differences that you care about, not what the voters of America care about. You will never see a widespread movement to have the government take over industry.

Without wishing to be pedantic, have you ever heard of The February revolution? The General Strike? The Paris Commune?

Both parties basically believe in and stand for social capitalism - it is just a question of the iron fist in the silk glove (Democrats) or just the iron fist (Republicans)

Abortion is never going to be outlawd in America under even of the present parties regimes, there will always be a welfare system (with slightly more or less funding), there will always be heavy spending on the military.

To me, the whole myth of America as this hugely conservative and country is without foundation. A petty, but recent example, Janet Jackson - while the church and media and right wing interest groups go into fits of indignant rage at the idea of people seeing a woman's bare breast - does anyone actually know of anyone, personally, who found it terribly offensive? or who even cared? The real America is and always has been a radical country, and for so long Americans have been misrepresented by politicians radically to the Right of them. Even Utswo, someone who is as staunchly republican as could be imagined, seems to me to be to the Left of both major parties on most social issues.

onetime2 · 02-20-2004, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Strange Famous
Without wishing to be pedantic, have you ever heard of The February revolution? The General Strike? The Paris Commune?

Both parties basically believe in and stand for social capitalism - it is just a question of the iron fist in the silk glove (Democrats) or just the iron fist (Republicans)

Abortion is never going to be outlawd in America under even of the present parties regimes, there will always be a welfare system (with slightly more or less funding), there will always be heavy spending on the military.

To me, the whole myth of America as this hugely conservative and country is without foundation. A petty, but recent example, Janet Jackson - while the church and media and right wing interest groups go into fits of indignant rage at the idea of people seeing a woman's bare breast - does anyone actually know of anyone, personally, who found it terribly offensive? or who even cared? The real America is and always has been a radical country, and for so long Americans have been misrepresented by politicians radically to the Right of them. Even Utswo, someone who is as staunchly republican as could be imagined, seems to me to be to the Left of both major parties on most social issues.

I don't buy into the worker revolution theories you subscribe to so there's no real point in getting into that debate as neither of our viewpoints will be altered in any significant way by the arguments of the other.

I think you misread the American public. In general they do not stray far from their religious and social foundations. There were a great many people outraged by the Janet Jackson episode and there are several here on TFP (and, overall, we are a most liberal and open minded cross section of world society). Personally I could care less about it, but everyone has a right to voice their opinion.

While most Americans believe in some level of help for those less fortunate, there is little support for widespread programs to "equalize" wealth across the spectrum of citizens.

Paq · 02-20-2004, 12:40 PM

hahah, you know, one of my favorite professors in grad school had as his basic thesis: America began as a country of people who were under duress. No group came to this country completely willingly and no one came to this country completely happy. The pilgrims came to escape persecution, the slaves came as labor, irish came bc of a famine, etc. People in england were given a choice: prison or America...

This country is based upon group after group of distressed people, and as such, are definitely more radical than most other "traditional" countries. Look at Canada..the mounties went west before the people. In America..the people went west, followed by the law. America has always been a more radical place. What's even more interesting is that the American South has always been the separate country/culture within the culture. Just that the south was once the liberal bastion of the country..

So, i could easily see how we are...divisive on issues but left of most traditional countries and right of most countries. We aren't exactly the most cohesive of countries...

onetime2 · 02-21-2004, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paq
So, i could easily see how we are...divisive on issues but left of most traditional countries and right of most countries. We aren't exactly the most cohesive of countries...

Historically it may be true, but in modern times, we are more united than divided on things. The Constitution, our sense of nationalism, and prosperity over the last 200+ years has gone a long way toward making us less radical.

02-17-2004, 03:31 PM	#41 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	Jane Fonda should be tried for treason? And here was I thinking this was a serious debate! Again, I think we should try Bush on his record as "president", not on whether or not he did his national guard duty thirty years ago - whether he did or dint is a non-issue to me, who he was then, he is no longer. __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

02-17-2004, 05:26 PM	#43 (permalink)
Kadath Muffled Location: Camazotz	And now we're on Jane Fonda somehow? __________________ it's quiet in here

02-18-2004, 12:42 PM	#45 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	I'm still waiting for what Sean Hannity has to do with this. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

02-18-2004, 03:54 PM	#46 (permalink)
JumpinJesus Junkie Location: Chicago	I'm still trying to figure out who wrote the piece. Did Ann Coulter write it or did Sean Hannity write it? I couldn't find an author's name on it anywhere. Am I blind? I've got a better idea. How about instead of all this campaigning and "who did what, when, and with who" and other political bullshit, we get the candidates onstage, have them drop their pants, and whoever has the biggest dick wins. Think of the time, money, and headaches this would save. It would be about as relevant as all the posturing the candidates do. I'd put my money on Ann Coulter. That's not libelous, is it? But then, I'm sure we'd be hearing about penis enlargement scandals. __________________ "I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am" - Cormac McCarthy, All The Pretty Horses

02-19-2004, 02:52 AM	#47 (permalink)
Sparhawk Dubya Location: VA	Once again, I'm pretty sure Hannity wrote it, and it was posted on Coulter's website (because it couldn't get printed anywhere else, perhaps) __________________ "In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

02-19-2004, 07:16 AM	#50 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	I doubt Anthrax "strikes a cord" with millions of people. Tens of thousands, maybe 100k. But not millions The woman is vile, evil, a serial liar and the definition of the word "hypocrite" Her book sales are the way they are because she gets massive help from rich conservative backers and book clubs who will do anything to see a conservative book rise to the top of the best seller charts. Her book has the asterix for abnormally large bulk purchases on it every single week. And she enjoys a measure of national attention because she has friends in high places who keep placing her in front of the camera, like Sean Hannity.

02-19-2004, 07:31 AM	#51 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	It's funny when you listen to Al Franken in interviews. He talks about when he was writing his book, "Lying Liars ....." that he went to Republican friends and asked them what they thought. He says a majority wouldn't say much about anyone until he got to Ann Coulter. He says every one of them said, "She's a nutcase". I truly wish someone would tell me how we are a better country when our 2 parties are so busy destroying the other and not doing what we elect them to do. It boggles my mind. Of course in Washington's farewell address he talked how partisan politics would destroy our country. Took 200+ years but it looks like the partisan politics not only has destroyed our country but is infecting the rest of the world. Instead of leading by example, we lead by spreading fear and anger and hatred of our country. Instead of having the best of everything (roads, jobs, healthcare, etc.) we have rich corporations determining policy, a president in an unconstitutional war (that every few months he changes the reason for our being there), an educational system that is bankrupt (therefore we cannot train our children for the new jobs that are coming), a standard of living not even in the top 10, the highest infant mortality rate in the developed countries, at least 2/3 of all bridges throughout the country overstressed and needing repaired. Why can we not work on the problems? WHY CAN WE NOT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP THE FUCKING PARTISAN FIGHTING AND ACTUALLY WORK TO MAKE OUR NATION GREAT AGAIN? USE THE ENERGY YOU ARE USING FOR THE HATE AND REPLACE IT WITH COMMON DECENCY AND TRUE PATRIOTISM (THAT IS WANTING TO BETTER YOUR COUNTRY NOT JUST BLINDLY AGREEING WITH YOUR PARTY). Fucking amazing how people have let the press turn thier focus off the TRUE issues. Aw well when it starts hitting people and the economy collapses and we are lucky to get 20 cents on the dollar at a bank maybe people will see. The only thing saving our asses now are our nukes. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

02-19-2004, 08:16 AM	#52 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	For almost all the major democrats party > country. For about 1/2 the major republicans party > country. Saddly I see more and more republicans slipping into the party first mode. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

02-19-2004, 08:27 AM	#53 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	My God you are baised. Even in that you can't help but take a shot at democrats. That's the exact thing that pan is talking about. Last edited by Superbelt; 02-19-2004 at 08:29 AM..

02-19-2004, 10:00 AM	#54 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	I think it is impossible to NOT be biased, try as we all might. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

02-19-2004, 10:45 AM	#55 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	Ooh I'm sure. Hell I know I am biased. There are people and ideas I immediately turn off to as soon as they are brought up. I can acknowledge those issues too. But some people have an unbelieveable slant. The way I take Ustwo's last post is that Democrats are entirely partisan. Incredibly partisan and thus a source of a majority of the problem discussed. But Republicans are only about half that way, though "they are slipping" Still there is that 1/2 bit of nobility there that is supposedly above the fray. The good people. But democrats are rotten to the core. Incapable of independent thought. Right. There's a reason the Democratic party is called the Big Tent. We are incredibly fractured. We can barely ever agree on anything let along be gung ho for the party. If we were as Ustwo says we are Gore would be president today. Nader would have been a non-factor. But I expect no less from Ustwo, to him, Democrats and liberals are ill equiped to govern, espouse all the wrong ideas and at times actually have ideas and policies that are overtly or covertly evil. I may not like most of the leadership of the Republican party, but I would never assume that 1/3 of this nation is absolutely inept or rotten.

02-19-2004, 10:45 AM	#56 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	Bias can be a good thing though because from it we can LEARN from the other side what can make the GROUP as a whole stronger. It's when bias is played into prejudice that it becomes evil. That is what the 2 parties are doing now. Turning bias into hatred instead of learning. USTWO.... to believe what you have said would be ludicrous. There are very very good men on both sides of the aisle that would like to see us live up to our potential. The problem is when you have 2 parties fighting like we do the voices of reason are ridiculed and because of the way society is today, unheard because they contain no scandal or hatred. Both parties are as much to blame as both parties are innocent. A 2 party system works when both parties work for the common good. A 2 party system will only destroy that which they say they want to improve by constantly fighting and not listening to the other. By your statement alone, USTWO, you are saying that Democrats should not be heard. That IS the problem, because right now when 1 party dominates and is so power hungry for more, the lesser party has to fight just to be heard. If the GOP were so great a party they would not attack the Dems like they do. The GOP has all the power, why then are they acting like they do? If they want all the power then should we not be scared as to why? If they are afraid of the Dems. then should we not ask why? __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

02-20-2004, 10:50 AM	#57 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	The strange thing is, the Democrat and Republican parties are so close on nearly all matters of policy, there is no fundamental ideological difference between them. Perhaps this is why American politics is so full of smear tactics, because the only thing that can differentiate the Democrat and Republican candidate is personality? __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

02-20-2004, 11:39 AM	#58 (permalink)
onetime2 Junkie Location: NJ	Interesting how many people attack Ustwo when, to be for one party or the other, each of us has gauged the other party to be lacking in some way or another. Ustwo's opinion is as valid as anyone elses. It is an opinion and everyone is entitled to one (or several). Obviously there are very good people on both sides of the aisle. If it was all about how good the people were, we would never talk about policy. When it comes down to it, it's about electing people who will support the majority of your standpoints and who you don't find personally repugnent. __________________ Strive to be more curious than ignorant. Last edited by onetime2; 02-20-2004 at 11:47 AM..

02-20-2004, 11:46 AM	#60 (permalink)
onetime2 Junkie Location: NJ	Oops, hit "Quote" instead of "Edit". __________________ Strive to be more curious than ignorant.

02-20-2004, 11:57 AM	#61 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	1, Abortion - presidents of both parties have made little change to abortion laws as far as I am aware 2, free market vs government control - both parties are clearly and openly capitalist. Neither party supports state owned enterprise, enforced worker democracy, or the nationalisation of key industries 3, environmentalism - both Clinton and Bush have been heavily criticised by the rest of the world for not doing enough in this area. 4, social policy - neither party supports a complete, cradle to the grave national health service, both parties support some kind of limited welfare "safety net", neither part supports massive spending on public services and a huge programme of taxation on the assets of the rich These are the ideologicla differences that matter, that people care about. Both the Democratc and Republicians agree on the basic ideology of their parties the only arguments are on how to manage these policies. __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

02-20-2004, 12:40 PM	#65 (permalink)
Paq Junkie Location: South Carolina	hahah, you know, one of my favorite professors in grad school had as his basic thesis: America began as a country of people who were under duress. No group came to this country completely willingly and no one came to this country completely happy. The pilgrims came to escape persecution, the slaves came as labor, irish came bc of a famine, etc. People in england were given a choice: prison or America... This country is based upon group after group of distressed people, and as such, are definitely more radical than most other "traditional" countries. Look at Canada..the mounties went west before the people. In America..the people went west, followed by the law. America has always been a more radical place. What's even more interesting is that the American South has always been the separate country/culture within the culture. Just that the south was once the liberal bastion of the country.. So, i could easily see how we are...divisive on issues but left of most traditional countries and right of most countries. We aren't exactly the most cohesive of countries... __________________ Live. Chris