onetime2

Seems like this argument could be used for both sides.

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theusername

Why should scholoarships and admissions advantages be based on ethnicity/race and not solely on economics?

That is my only point.

I am not deprived. I live a comfortable life but a black kid in my SAME EXACT situation would receive a huge scholarship to those same schools. Do I want or deserve it? NO! But he does not either.

james t kirk

Oh, i am reading your posts alright.

My message remains - quit your bitching. Sometimes minorities need a break.

I am glad that you got accepted to university today (man February!! that's an early acceptance letter, no matter)

Here's a tip for you you though:

The contraction of "you are" is spelled "you're", not "your" as you wrote. Your means ownership, like your car, or your grades, etc.

Good luck in skule

Stare At The Sun

^Why do they deserve a break based on skin color? How are they more entitled to federal help than a white person that is in just as bad, or worse of a situation. Why don't they work, get loans, and get off their ass. Nothing is stopping them, they are not oppressed.

JumpinJesus

Surely you don't mean to imply that minorities who receive scholarships don't work, cry racism, and are generally lazy.

If it's just me who got that impression, then I apologize and I'll adjust my knee-jerk reaction medication.

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SLM3

That's where we disagree.


SLM3

smooth

What scholarship are you reading? Federal aid is based on economic need.

But to clarify a point, some schools value various things besides giving someone a helping hand--one of them is called diversity of opinion.

Besides, scholarships are not the same as grants--they are given by the benefactor, they aren't owed to anyone.

theusername

lol! man this is an internet forum im sorry if i can't live up to your grammatical standard. Your a joke and still have made no argument as to why this policy is just besides your "boohoo" statement.

Last year at UMICH, a kid received 20 points for being black. and something like 12 for a perfect SAT score. Please tell me thats fair because "sometimes minorities need a break."

james t kirk

Sigh, you did it again..

You're a joke, not your a joke.

Stare At The Sun

Kirk, you are attacking his grammar because you can't attack his argument, as it is sound. Get real, you need to understand that noone deserves a scholarship,grant, or anything based on race, PERIOD. it is DISCRIMINATION, against me, and thousands of others.

Blacks have had well over a hundred years to get their shit together, white european americans did it in 1 generation. Its a matter of personal choice and motivation. Blacks, hispanics, asians, jews, any other minority of choice are not "Oppressed" in the US. There are no lynchings, segregation or preferential treatment. Infact, blacks and minorities recieve better treatment more often than whites, so....they should be doing better.

If you would like to show me how blacks and minorities are still held down in todays society, i would love to hear all about it. But, the reality is, they are given the same chance as everyone else.

filtherton

In my fair city, a report was issued last year on racial profiling. The report concluded that the police were more likely to pull over minorities and search their cars, despite the fact that statistically the police were more likely to find drugs and contraband in the vehicles of white people. This isn't to say that whites have drugs more often than minorities, just that the police only pulled over the whites who they had good reason to suspect had drugs.

Racism exists. Don't pretend it doesn't. It is covert nowadays. That might help to explain why euro immigrants have generally had an easier time adjusting to american life. You could never look at me and know just from my apprearance that i've got german in me. You could however look at a black man and know instantly that he's black, and if you're even a smidge racist that's all you need.

I'm not saying that i think AA is a very well thought out plan of action. I'm just saying that your claim that minorities aren't "held down" in society is bullshit. We can pretend that racism ended sometime in that fuzzy post MLK civil rights era or we can face reality. White privelidge and racial profiling do exist.

Stare At The Sun

Oh, so because it happends in your city, it happends everywhere, 1 study= worldwide.

And you say racism still exists, so what? Legally, noone can discriminate, and affirmative action makes sure all these "underprivilaged" minorities get jobs. I don't understand how you can truly support something that favors one group over another, its a catch 22, because thats discrimination against the other guy. There is no way of denying that.

Even though racism exists, that doesnt hinder a students ability to learn, its not like there are segregrated classrooms, or anything like that. If anything, the educational system has been geared toward poorer scoring minorities, and the gov has made it easier to graduate and pass standardized testing.

And honestly, all this preferential treatment is just going to fuel racism more, as whites will keep getting more pissed. If everything, in all aspects was just equal, life would be lots simpler.

Zeld2.0

Buddy racial profiling is well known to occur all around and believe it or not, we all racially profile in our minds anyways.

If given a choice between 10 people, of which there are blacks and whites, chances are, you'll pick a white guy to work for you if you're white.

I hate to make stereotypical comments but this is what is well known and IMO almost everyone will feel it too - you've heard the jokes before but honestly speaking most people will be more suspicious of a black guy driving an expensive car vs. a white guy.

Its the fact of society, and IMO the problem is - its easy to call others discriminating but being in the majority also eliminates the thoughts on the possibility others feel different about being "oppressed."

Lebell

Sigh, grammatical jousting.


locked.


*edit: re-opened by request.


James T. Kirk & theusername, please keep your comments on the topic and off of each other.

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Boo

Having lived in North Carolina, I will conceed that racism exists. Even OPENLY and in your face.

When I was confronted by a brick wall when attempting to get financing for my education. I had to take steps to reach my goal. It included moving away from family and friends. Making a 4 year commitment and cutting my hair. My point is.... racism to me is near to a cop out to me. You have alternatives, you might not like them, but most people have choices.

Being put into a situation where you have to give up family or friends or hometown or education or anything else because of color is wrong. It is discrimination.

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Zeld2.0

That sounds like an interestign story Boo, i'm actually interested in hearing what happened if you want to elaborate.

TheShadow

Actually, Charlatan, Canadians have the near equivilant of Affirmative Action with the Aboriginal populations - on all applications there will be the 'check off here if you're an aboriginal' - meaning that, in terms of university, you have a higher chance of getting in, and because of Aboriginal status, you don't pay to go to university.

On the topic of the thread, I think it's a step backwards - and a good one too. If this scholorship isn't unjustly shot down, it will be a slightly more equal society, allowing for colour scholarships for Any color, not just non-white.

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CSflim

There are many problems with the Irish education system...but thankfully in areas such as this, it excells.

You get a free education all the way up to the end of secondary school (i.e. high school), when you sit the Leaving Cert. You take seven or eight subjects, and when you get the results, you choose your best six results. You are awarded 0-100 points for each subject, and so you end up with an over-all total of 0-600 points.

By the time you have recieved your results, you will have already submitted your applications to various colleges/universities.

If a particular course has say 65 places, the 65 students with the highest number of points get offered the place. End of story.

College is free to everyone the first time round...you can go for any degree/cert/diploma you want, and it will be free. (If you flunk out however, you have lost your chance, and if you want to repeat/take a different course you have to pay).

This way, it doesn't matter who you are, who you know, how much you daddy is willing to "donate" (*cough* bribe *cough*) or anything else. You get in on merit. Economic factors are reasonably insignificant for most people...you don't have to pay any fees. If you are particularly poor, you can also apply for a grant (e.g. if you live at home and your parents earn below €X)

I think that this is the fairest possible system any country could hope to have when it comes to organising college/university places...race or anything else just simply drops right out of the equation.

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filtherton

Legally, no one can exceed the speed limit either, yet i think that happens MILLIONS of time daily. Racism does exist and it is a hurdle to overcome. It can get in the way of an education. I don't think AA is the correct answer to this problem, but i do think this whole attitude that "We stamped out racism a long time ago so what are these whiny minorities complaining about?" is very lacking in insight.

Although maybe AA does make a little sense in the context that covert racism (the new american standard) amounts do a de facto pro white affirmative action. I still don't think it is a realistic solution, i just think that many of the white people complaining about it fail to realize that they have been benefitting from de facto anti-minority affirmative action for four hundred plus years.
Maybe that's why it seems so ironic to me when white people decry AA. It has been around in some form or another since columbus landed and has always been to the benefit of the majority race. Not that the tables are turned though, AA is a crime against all that is good and great in america.

Oh yeah, btw, i'm white and i'm speaking in generalizations.