01-13-2004, 11:19 AM | #1 (permalink) |
Junkie
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Rush Limbaugh and the ACLU
This is a transcript from countdown last night
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3947807/ [/QUOTE] Sample items taken from Mr. Limbaugh‘s own Web site. September 12, 2003: “If this guy had burned that flag,” Limbaugh said, “the ACLU and countless other groups would be down there supporting this guy‘s right to desecrate Old Glory. But because he‘s flying the American flag respectfully, none of the so-called civil libertarians makes a peep.” September 23, 2003: “The ACLU has decided they‘re not going to appeal the 9th Circuit‘s decision to reinstate the California recall election. They must not really care all that must about you stupid—their term, not mine—minorities and poor people.” December 23, 2003: “Where have all these so-called civil libertarians gone, the ACLU and the rest of them, claiming our government is overreaching?” Maybe I am overreaching, but I do not think Mr. Limbaugh likes the ACLU. And something else he has shown an antipathy to, the right to privacy. Again, from his own Web site. August 22, 2003: “I warned you about this ever-broadening interpretation of the so-called right to privacy. It‘s not a right specifically enumerated in the Constitution or Bill of Rights,” a quote that made an odd preface to this next one from December 23, 2003: “Now they need my medical records, my private medical records, to find out if I‘ve committed a crime called doctor shopping? They now have to invade my privacy to learn whether I have broken the law?” Today, the ACLU filed a friend-of-the-court brief supporting Mr. Limbaugh‘s argument that the seizure of his private medical records was illegal. And Limbaugh gratefully accepted the ACLU‘s help. His attorney, Roy Black, said he and Limbaugh—quote—“are pleased that the ACLU has filed a motion” and added that the seizure was—quote - · “also a threat to everyone‘s fundamental right to privacy”—unquote. To say nothing of, as Mr. Limbaugh and Mr. Clemens might tell you, if they were talking about somebody besides themselves, everyone‘s fundamental right to change their opinions on a dime and contradict months and even years of their own conduct and beliefs, everyone‘s fundamental right, the ungenerous among us might call it, to hypocrisy. Check, please. [/QUOTE] Anyone else see the hypocracy and irony? |
01-13-2004, 11:35 AM | #2 (permalink) |
Cracking the Whip
Location: Sexymama's arms...
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Not really.
The ACLU has a mixed record supporting civil rights. This is one of the relatively few times I agree with Limbaugh.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate! |
01-13-2004, 11:35 AM | #3 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: NJ
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Yes, I do see the hypocrisy. At least that which is displayed by the ACLU in selectively filing against violations which fit their political agenda while promoting themselves as the champion of all the people and ignoring those issues which don't fit their beliefs.
Limbaugh makes use of his right to free speech to criticize an organization which he typically disagrees with. Is that wrong? Nope. Is one of the ACLU's hot topics individual privacy? Yep. They should be filing suit as this records seizure has smelled since it first occured.
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01-13-2004, 11:52 AM | #5 (permalink) | ||
Dubya
Location: VA
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Quote:
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"In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work." |
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01-13-2004, 11:53 AM | #6 (permalink) |
The sky calls to us ...
Super Moderator
Location: CT
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I'm lad they're helping him. Nobody, even people who I don't like, should have their private medical records illegally siezed. Maybe this will show him that the ACLU isn't all that bad, and that they really do care about civil liberties.
I hope that this whole situation of his opens his eyes a little bit and shows him that people sometimes need help, not just punishment. |
01-13-2004, 11:56 AM | #7 (permalink) | ||
Dubya
Location: VA
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Quote:
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"In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work." |
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01-13-2004, 12:07 PM | #8 (permalink) |
Kiss of Death
Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow
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I personally view them as a bunch of Liberal-oppurtunistic Christo-phobes. They sure as hell don't defend my right tp say what I want, in fact they've gone out of there way many times to curb it. If you don't think that their are other motivations to helping Rush Limbaugh, you are nieve.
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01-13-2004, 12:14 PM | #9 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: NJ
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The NRA doesn't claim to represent everyone (including those for gun laws). The ACLU does. The ACLU's politics go hand in hand with the cases they bring.
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Strive to be more curious than ignorant. |
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01-13-2004, 12:18 PM | #10 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: NJ
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Quote:
__________________
Strive to be more curious than ignorant. |
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01-13-2004, 12:23 PM | #11 (permalink) | |
Psycho
Location: Memphis
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Too bad many conservatives often assume that just because they defend some very disreputable people, the ACLU agrees and espouses the beliefs of those people.
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01-13-2004, 12:25 PM | #12 (permalink) | |
Psycho
Location: Memphis
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Quote:
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01-13-2004, 12:28 PM | #13 (permalink) |
Kiss of Death
Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow
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You've got to be dillusional if you think the ACLU does a better job and is more representative in their quest to "defend and uphold" the bill of rights, then the NRA and the 2nd amendment.
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To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition. |
01-13-2004, 12:34 PM | #14 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: NJ
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The ACLU does not take on all issues of free speech, just the ones that fit their agendas. The one pointed to at the start of this thread is a prime example. Should the right to display a flag not be defended just as enthusiastically as the right to burn one?
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Strive to be more curious than ignorant. Last edited by onetime2; 01-13-2004 at 12:42 PM.. |
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01-13-2004, 12:55 PM | #15 (permalink) | |
Psycho
Location: Memphis
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You may have meant delusional, in which case you can relax...I'm not suffering from any delusions. I'm sure many people who don't share your fanatically conservative point of view would disagree with your assessment of the ACLU vs. NRA.
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When life hands you a lemon, say "Oh yeah, I like lemons. What else you got?" Henry Rollins |
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01-13-2004, 01:06 PM | #16 (permalink) | |
Psycho
Location: Memphis
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I know of at least 2 cases where the ACLU has defended an individuals right to fly a flag. I'm not aware of a case where they've not supported an individuals right to fly a flag. I'm not saying they haven't, I'm just not aware of one. As for flag burning...the ACLU may have defended the practice, but it was the courts that ultimately decided that flag-burning was a protected form of free speech.
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When life hands you a lemon, say "Oh yeah, I like lemons. What else you got?" Henry Rollins |
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01-13-2004, 01:09 PM | #18 (permalink) |
Junkie
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My point was Rush at one time was saying how there is no "Right to privacy" then all the sudden he is claiming there is a right to privacy. I think the ACLU is doing the right thing by helping someone who obviously dislikes them. Rush is the hypocrite here.
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01-13-2004, 03:48 PM | #19 (permalink) | |
Dubya
Location: VA
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/goes off to check his dictionary for Liberal-opportunistic Christo-phobes...
__________________
"In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work." |
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01-13-2004, 04:10 PM | #20 (permalink) | |
Insane
Location: New Orleans/Chicago
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Rush Limbaugh and the ACLU? Makes me think that maybe there IS a God, and he's a very funny Guy.
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why are you wearing that stupid man suit? |
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01-13-2004, 04:50 PM | #21 (permalink) | |
Huzzah for Welcome Week, Much beer shall I imbibe.
Location: UCSB
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2. If you'r going to make claimes like this provide a source or warrants, a statement like this is absurd and only provokes ridicule from other TFPers. 3. A comparison of the two organizations is rather flawed considering that civil liberties don't kill thousands of people every year. I mean you never hear "my friend and I were walking around downtown last night when a thug pulled-out his right to petition with an illegal freedom of assembly mod and killed my friend" now try that sentence with a tec-9 replacing the phrase "right to petition" and silencer replacing "freedom of assembly".
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I'm leaving for the University of California: Santa Barbara in 5 hours, give me your best college advice - things I need, good ideas, bad ideas, nooky, ect. Originally Posted by Norseman on another forum: "Yeah, the problem with the world is the stupid people are all cocksure of themselves and the intellectuals are full of doubt." |
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01-14-2004, 08:40 AM | #22 (permalink) | |
Cracking the Whip
Location: Sexymama's arms...
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Well, if you are complaining about sources, accuracy, etc, then you should know that Tec 9's are illegal, there is no such thing as a "Silencer" (it's a suppressor) and there have been no cases where a suppressed weapon has been used in a crime. "Hyperbole, thy name is man..."
__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate! |
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01-14-2004, 08:58 AM | #23 (permalink) | |
This vexes me. I am terribly vexed.
Location: Grantville, Pa
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The ACLU takes on the high profile cases that have the potential to decide decisions for many smaller cases around the nation. This one case, if they win will cast a wide net for many other people who are having the same problem. The ACLU can't take every case so they take the specialty ones and the high profiles because there is more bang for your buck there. |
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01-14-2004, 09:23 AM | #24 (permalink) |
Upright
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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This thread is frustrating. Both (or more accurately, all) sides of this argument seem to be missing some very important points, and perhaps a bit of the big picture:
The ACLU, while flawed, mostly does the right thing. Like any large and old organization, there are politics and personal agendas that get in the way. But mostly, they fight the good fight. Rush Limbaugh does not necessarily believe anything he says or writes in his media spewing. His only consistent agenda (indeed, the agenda of all "hot talk" broadcasters) is to get as many people to pay attention to him as possible. Maybe he does believe what he says, but I suspect not: he is a smart man, and his purported politics share some ground with the ACLU - controlling the size and power of the state. He has simply never mentioned this; indeed he has pretty much stated the opposite. Hypocrite or huckster? I'll go with the latter. BTW - I am a newbie, and I really like the quality of the thought behind these posts. I'm glad to be here. |
01-14-2004, 10:23 AM | #25 (permalink) |
Cracking the Whip
Location: Sexymama's arms...
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Welcome to the boards, Candide
__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate! |
01-14-2004, 11:15 AM | #26 (permalink) |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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The ACLU's motivations are obvious.
First, it IS an issue for them, the ACLU believes in a right to privacy (which isn't a right by the constitution), so this case does fit their agenda there. Second, its Rush. This gives them a high profile case where they can claim the high road they haven't seen since they defended the Illinois Nazi's (I hate Illinois Nazi's). Everyone knows Rush doesn't like the ACLU so now they can pretend to be above the issue. Third, the ACLU had taken it on the chin lately for being to liberal. This is something they can' point to as a big 'no we arn't' even though its one case, and not really a liberal/conservative issue. Now to me this has nothing to do with privacy but confidentiality. There is a difference. The day the ACLU defends someones right to own a firearm I’ll rethink my opinion of them.
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01-14-2004, 03:45 PM | #27 (permalink) | |
Huzzah for Welcome Week, Much beer shall I imbibe.
Location: UCSB
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__________________
I'm leaving for the University of California: Santa Barbara in 5 hours, give me your best college advice - things I need, good ideas, bad ideas, nooky, ect. Originally Posted by Norseman on another forum: "Yeah, the problem with the world is the stupid people are all cocksure of themselves and the intellectuals are full of doubt." |
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01-19-2004, 10:43 PM | #31 (permalink) | |||
This vexes me. I am terribly vexed.
Location: Grantville, Pa
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I don't see how Limbaughs head keeps from just exploding on his shoulders.
First the man says: Quote:
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01-23-2004, 09:14 AM | #32 (permalink) | |
This vexes me. I am terribly vexed.
Location: Grantville, Pa
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4037128/
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“The public is better served by treating addicts as patients rather than criminals.” I guess Mr. Black doesn't subscrible to Rush's political views. Amazing Rush would go along with it..... Last edited by Superbelt; 01-23-2004 at 09:18 AM.. |
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01-23-2004, 10:36 AM | #33 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: NJ
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It's disturbing that the prosecutor is using the release of private medical records as a bargaining chip and that he chooses to share communications between the two sides with the public. Further, "supporting 10 felony counts" is far from gaining convictions on them. Seems to just be more evidence that this case is being brought for reasons other than the public good. Is Rush really a threat to the public for doctor shopping? Probation, random drug checks, and treatment would probably be more than acceptable for another less prominent person with no other criminal record facing the same charges.
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01-23-2004, 10:47 AM | #35 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: NJ
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__________________
Strive to be more curious than ignorant. |
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01-23-2004, 11:19 AM | #36 (permalink) |
This vexes me. I am terribly vexed.
Location: Grantville, Pa
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I assume that will be one of the charges as that is the one that has been discussed about most.
They do have proof of distributor volumes. I saw documents made available on The Smoking Gun showing the extreme events he went to for doctor shopping. Dozens of the same prescription in one month. Several hundred pills a prescription easily puts him up to the dealer volumes. Plus testimony from the various people such as his maid, and pharmacists and any of his dealers that they may be able to track down. |
01-23-2004, 11:27 AM | #37 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: NJ
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But anyway, what about the fact that the prosecutor is using the release of medical records as an implied threat? Or that he's publicizing communications between lawyers? It certainly seems to go beyond the bounds of a "normal" case.
__________________
Strive to be more curious than ignorant. |
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01-23-2004, 12:26 PM | #39 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: NJ
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I honestly have no problem with Rush going to jail if that's the norm for the crime(s) he's convicted of. The only thing that has bothered me from the beginning about this is that the case seemed beyond the "norms" of prosecution.
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Strive to be more curious than ignorant. |
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01-23-2004, 04:23 PM | #40 (permalink) |
follower of the child's crusade?
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Does anyone actually listen to Rush Limbaugh?
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aclu, limbaugh, rush |
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