Danish troops find illegal mortar rounds in Iraq - Page 3 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Lebell · 01-12-2004, 06:04 PM

Please calm down both of you and stay on topic.

Thanks.

nanofever · 01-12-2004, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by madp
I completely agree with you on how lame the "justification" for the war appears, and I wish Bush had been brutally honest about all the reasons. However, because I believed that getting rid of Hussein was such a good idea, maybe I'm not as angry as I should be about the innuendo the administration used in lobbying for the war.

But I can't help it; I'm so damn glad that Hussein is gone, and that Syria, Iran, Libya, and N Korea saw that the US has the resolve to deal with rogue nations, that I just can't get too upset that the WMD's haven't played out the way our intelligence thought it would.

As for the last part, I really don't think anyone beside the countries with us right now would have signed up for this effort unless they were forced to through a completely undeniable moral imperative.

You know the US is easily defined as a rogue nation. Huge stockpiles of conventional and WMD, record of using WMD, attacking sovereign nations without provacation, record of and continuning espionage in every country in the world, leaving the Kyoto protocal, not signing the Landmine ban, ect.

If you want to play the name game and call other countries rogue you need to look at the US' track record.

Mojo_PeiPei · 01-12-2004, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nanofever
You know the US is easily defined as a rogue nation.

Thats cute, lets just pick this apart piece by piece.

Quote:

Huge stockpiles of conventional and WMD

Where does it say anywhere that it is illegal for us to have said weapons? And as far as I know we haven't signed any treaty, we have no resolutions banning them from us, where is the problem?[/QUote]

Quote:

record of using WMD

Hiroshima and Nagasaki 59 years ago? Get serious.

Quote:

attacking sovereign nations without provacation

Oh you mean countries that don't abide by resolutions and laws that they signed, oh ok. As far as I know it was only called "un-provoked" by the losing team as well.

Quote:

record of and continuning espionage in every country in the world

Whats wrong with this? Keeping a leg up in the intelligence game, yeah that's really detrimental to the safety of the United States. With you saying it like that, you'd think we were the only ones...

Quote:

If you want to play the name game and call other countries rogue you need to look at the US' track record.

Yes shame on us, the evil war mongering United States.

nanofever · 01-12-2004, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mojo_PeiPei
Your right, how conservative bible bumping of me to think that 2+ million deaths by a sadistic maniacal sosciopath is evil.

Such a pretty strawman, you just had to hack it down after construction, eh ?

I was pointing out that if humanitarian aid was the purpose of invading Iraq then we have set down a long path towards the goal of world policeman.

You used Sudan as an example of humanitarian aid not working as an excuse for a war on false pretenses in Iraq (false analogy is the best way I can think of describing that). What sudan and Iraq have to do with one another I will never know.

Perhaps the two million people killed were evil and a good leader was just taking a stand against them. Actually, that does sound rather biblical, a smaller number of people slaughtering a large number of "evil" people.

PS. its bible "thumping" not bumping...

Mojo_PeiPei · 01-12-2004, 06:23 PM

I used an example of how the world, more importantly, the UN sits with a thumb up its ass while people are needless and knowingly suffering.

And no the 2 million people who've been killed were done so because they were Christian, the same reason they are taken as slaves.

nanofever · 01-12-2004, 06:26 PM

quote:
Originally posted by nanofever
You know the US is easily defined as a rogue nation.

Thats cute, lets just pick this apart piece by piece.
quote:

Huge stockpiles of conventional and WMD

Where does it say anywhere that it is illegal for us to have said weapons? And as far as I know we haven't signed any treaty, we have no resolutions banning them from us, where is the problem?[/QUote]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/bush/story...494257,00.html

1974, nixon signed a ban on chem weapons...

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0311-05.htm

the us vowed never to make the "mistake" again and refuses to sign the CTBT or a bio. weapon equalivant

quote:

record of using WMD

Hiroshima and Nagasaki 59 years ago? Get serious.

I'm quite serious, we are the only country to ever use atomic weapons. Ad homs are not arguments at the big-person table...

quote:

attacking sovereign nations without provacation

Oh you mean countries that don't abide by resolutions and laws that they signed, oh ok. As far as I know it was only called "un-provoked" by the losing team as well.

I recall they signed the resolution with a gun to their head and then were invaded anyway with out proof that they violated the resolution.

quote:

record of and continuning espionage in every country in the world

Whats wrong with this? Keeping a leg up in the intelligence game, yeah that's really detrimental to the safety of the United States. With you saying it like that, you'd think we were the only ones...

I'll let you have this one, it doesn't make us any more rogue than anyone else

quote:

If you want to play the name game and call other countries rogue you need to look at the US' track record.

Yes shame on us, the evil war mongering United States.

Again, big-person table.

Also, since you decided to go line-by-line on my post and you left off the Kyoto protocol and Landmines, I'm going to say "silence is compliance" and assume those were conceded points.

madp · 01-12-2004, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nanofever
You know the US is easily defined as a rogue nation. Huge stockpiles of conventional and WMD, record of using WMD, attacking sovereign nations without provacation, record of and continuning espionage in every country in the world, leaving the Kyoto protocal, not signing the Landmine ban, ect.

If you want to play the name game and call other countries rogue you need to look at the US' track record.

Are you SERIOUS??!!

nanofever · 01-12-2004, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mojo_PeiPei
I used an example of how the world, more importantly, the UN sits with a thumb up its ass while people are needless and knowingly suffering.

And no the 2 million people who've been killed were done so because they were Christian, the same reason they are taken as slaves.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/232803.stm

I don't quite think that Christians are being killed without cause since Sudan is in a civil war that goes both directions. However, this argument is silly on this topic but if you want to make a new one for it that is cool.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/232803.stm

Mojo_PeiPei · 01-12-2004, 06:45 PM

Rather then starting a new thread, I'll close with this. Why do you think they are at civil war? Because the Christians refuse to accept the repressive Sh'aaria law of the north.

nanofever · 01-12-2004, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mojo_PeiPei
Rather then starting a new thread, I'll close with this. Why do you think they are at civil war? Because the Christians refuse to accept the repressive Sh'aaria law of the north.

The christians are rebels against the islamic government, sure I'll concede that is the cause.

*done* with this subtopic R.I.P

Rekna · 01-12-2004, 10:09 PM

and that is why religion and government should be seperate and theocracies are bound to be represive and ultimatly fail.

Superbelt · 01-14-2004, 11:36 AM

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,108390,00.html

Quote:

Wednesday, January 14, 2004
COPENHAGEN, Denmark — Mortar shells found in southern Iraq by the Danish military do not appear to contain chemical weapon agents as originally suspected, Fox News has learned.

Read On...

Lebell · 01-14-2004, 11:42 AM

Fiqures.

Dang, I wish they would stop that...

Dragonlich · 01-15-2004, 12:42 AM

Well, in "their" defence... the US gov did say that it was probably nothing.

Just wondering, though: what liquid would have been in those shells then? Water (rain) mixed with the explosives, perhaps?

onetime2 · 01-16-2004, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dragonlich
Well, in "their" defence... the US gov did say that it was probably nothing.

Just wondering, though: what liquid would have been in those shells then? Water (rain) mixed with the explosives, perhaps?

Phospherous or a liquid propellant can give false positives. The field tests are designed to be "safer" for those in the field by favoring a positive reading. Better to handle these things in the safest way in case it turns out to be true.

nanofever · 01-16-2004, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by onetime2
Phospherous or a liquid propellant can give false positives. The field tests are designed to be "safer" for those in the field by favoring a positive reading. Better to handle these things in the safest way in case it turns out to be true.

I might be wrong but wouldn't phospherous in a morter be somewhat equlivant to napalm, with the burning and sticking and what not.

onetime2 · 01-16-2004, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nanofever
I might be wrong but wouldn't phospherous in a morter be somewhat equlivant to napalm, with the burning and sticking and what not.

It's used as a tracer so you can see the shot's path. I'm sure it would dirty the wound a bit if it were a bullet, but if you get hit by a mortar you got bigger problems than it burning or sticking.

Lebell · 01-16-2004, 12:28 PM

White phos is also used as an incendiary since it burns upon contact with air.

debaser · 01-17-2004, 07:57 AM

Actually WP is used most often as a smoke round. The burning of the agent is very rapid and creates a dense, white smoke. Altough it has a potent explosive effect, that is not the primary purpose.

legolas · 01-17-2004, 01:07 PM

Wow thank you for the article. It's something at least.

Dragonlich · 01-18-2004, 01:10 AM

Er... WP is pretty dangerous. It creates smoke, and that's what it's used for. However, if anyone is in the general area of the explosion, they risk being burned. And you do NOT want to be burned by WP, as it's a bitch to extinguish.

So, yes, it's kinda similar to napalm, but only kinda.

01-12-2004, 06:04 PM	#81 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	Please calm down both of you and stay on topic. Thanks. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

01-12-2004, 06:23 PM	#85 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	I used an example of how the world, more importantly, the UN sits with a thumb up its ass while people are needless and knowingly suffering. And no the 2 million people who've been killed were done so because they were Christian, the same reason they are taken as slaves. __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

01-12-2004, 06:26 PM	#86 (permalink)
nanofever Huzzah for Welcome Week, Much beer shall I imbibe. Location: UCSB	quote: Originally posted by nanofever You know the US is easily defined as a rogue nation. Thats cute, lets just pick this apart piece by piece. quote: Huge stockpiles of conventional and WMD Where does it say anywhere that it is illegal for us to have said weapons? And as far as I know we haven't signed any treaty, we have no resolutions banning them from us, where is the problem?[/QUote] http://www.guardian.co.uk/bush/story...494257,00.html 1974, nixon signed a ban on chem weapons... http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0311-05.htm the us vowed never to make the "mistake" again and refuses to sign the CTBT or a bio. weapon equalivant quote: record of using WMD Hiroshima and Nagasaki 59 years ago? Get serious. I'm quite serious, we are the only country to ever use atomic weapons. Ad homs are not arguments at the big-person table... quote: attacking sovereign nations without provacation Oh you mean countries that don't abide by resolutions and laws that they signed, oh ok. As far as I know it was only called "un-provoked" by the losing team as well. I recall they signed the resolution with a gun to their head and then were invaded anyway with out proof that they violated the resolution. quote: record of and continuning espionage in every country in the world Whats wrong with this? Keeping a leg up in the intelligence game, yeah that's really detrimental to the safety of the United States. With you saying it like that, you'd think we were the only ones... I'll let you have this one, it doesn't make us any more rogue than anyone else quote: If you want to play the name game and call other countries rogue you need to look at the US' track record. Yes shame on us, the evil war mongering United States. Again, big-person table. Also, since you decided to go line-by-line on my post and you left off the Kyoto protocol and Landmines, I'm going to say "silence is compliance" and assume those were conceded points. __________________ I'm leaving for the University of California: Santa Barbara in 5 hours, give me your best college advice - things I need, good ideas, bad ideas, nooky, ect. Originally Posted by Norseman on another forum: "Yeah, the problem with the world is the stupid people are all cocksure of themselves and the intellectuals are full of doubt." Last edited by nanofever; 01-12-2004 at 06:48 PM..

01-12-2004, 06:45 PM	#89 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	Rather then starting a new thread, I'll close with this. Why do you think they are at civil war? Because the Christians refuse to accept the repressive Sh'aaria law of the north. __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

01-14-2004, 11:42 AM	#93 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	Fiqures. Dang, I wish they would stop that... __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

01-12-2004, 10:09 PM	#91 (permalink)
Rekna Junkie	and that is why religion and government should be seperate and theocracies are bound to be represive and ultimatly fail.

01-15-2004, 12:42 AM	#94 (permalink)
Dragonlich 42, baby! Location: The Netherlands	Well, in "their" defence... the US gov did say that it was probably nothing. Just wondering, though: what liquid would have been in those shells then? Water (rain) mixed with the explosives, perhaps?

01-16-2004, 12:28 PM	#98 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	White phos is also used as an incendiary since it burns upon contact with air. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

01-17-2004, 07:57 AM	#99 (permalink)
debaser Sir, I have a plan... Location: 38S NC20943324	Actually WP is used most often as a smoke round. The burning of the agent is very rapid and creates a dense, white smoke. Altough it has a potent explosive effect, that is not the primary purpose. __________________ Fortunato became immured to the sound of the trowel after a while.

01-17-2004, 01:07 PM	#100 (permalink)
legolas shit faced cockmaster Location: CT	Wow thank you for the article. It's something at least. __________________ "To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems."

01-18-2004, 01:10 AM	#101 (permalink)
Dragonlich 42, baby! Location: The Netherlands	Er... WP is pretty dangerous. It creates smoke, and that's what it's used for. However, if anyone is in the general area of the explosion, they risk being burned. And you do NOT want to be burned by WP, as it's a bitch to extinguish. So, yes, it's kinda similar to napalm, but only kinda.