Has America forgotten about Afghanistan? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

silent_jay · 12-11-2003, 05:16 AM

With the war on terror in full swing and "Iraq the new frontline" has the US forgotten about the can of worms they opened in Afghanistan? Are they hoping the rest of the world will clean up this mess?

Dragonlich · 12-11-2003, 05:39 AM

If I'm not mistaken, the US army is still (very) active in Afghanistan, and has recently started a new offensive against Taliban fighters. Just because you don't see it on the daily news, doesn't mean nothing is happening.

By the way, the can of worms was already open; the US merely exposed it, and is now trying to shut it again.

2wolves · 12-11-2003, 05:47 AM

The continuing war there will be brought home to the United States as heroin futures show steeply declining prices. Inexpensive smack is a leading indicator of, short term, less urban crime but also a trailing indicator of a larger addict population with severe increases in non-violent crime.

Totally Open Market Capitalism! Fun for the entire family.

2Wolves

reconmike · 12-11-2003, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 2wolves
The continuing war there will be brought home to the United States as heroin futures show steeply declining prices. Inexpensive smack is a leading indicator of, short term, less urban crime but also a trailing indicator of a larger addict population with severe increases in non-violent crime.

Totally Open Market Capitalism! Fun for the entire family.

2Wolves

This would be great!!

Cheaper more pure heroin on the streets, then Darwinism can take over. Less junkies getting handouts.

Just think about how short the lines at the methadone clinics will become.

Kostya · 12-11-2003, 04:46 PM

It doesn't make for good publicity when you talk up how you're going to crush your enemy with new technology and over a year later Talibanis are walking around in broad daylight in some areas. The government hasn't forgotten about the Afghan conflict, but it sure as hell doesn't want everyone else to remember it...

silent_jay · 12-11-2003, 08:47 PM

it sure doesn't want anyone else to mention it. then those dirty names will come up (Osama,Omar) it's kinda like a where's Waldo when it comes to these people.

Phaenx · 12-11-2003, 10:52 PM

Afghanistan now has highways between the major cities and sky-scrapers. There's probably a Mc'Donalds and a few starbucks there by now. I wouldn't say it's abandoned at all, just because the media doesn't care about it doesn't mean the United States doesn't care about it.

Zeld2.0 · 12-11-2003, 11:04 PM

Yeah im sure they got a bunch of major cities and skyscrapers within a year since operations began and rockets are still flying around up there.

Honestly though, I doubt MickeyD's or Starbucks there equates to U.S. success there in finding Osama or whatever.

Phaenx · 12-11-2003, 11:41 PM

Nothing will ever equate to success while a Republican is President for liberals.

Well, unless Bush reveals that he's actually Jesus in disguise. Maybe not even then.

Anyways, it couldn't hurt. A new civilized country may turn out to be a good trading partner in the long run.

TequilaJr · 12-12-2003, 10:49 AM

It's been said already, but I think it bears repeating: just because the media doesn't tell you about it doesn't mean it's not happening. If it's not sensational it doesn't get airtime, and fortunately that is the case in Afghanistan. I forget where I heard the line, but it went something like "It it doesn't bleed, it doesn't lead." I'm pretty sure it was a movie, but it's an accurate statement in regards to todays newscasts.

SLM3 · 12-12-2003, 12:01 PM

Actually, the US has a firm hold on little outside of Kabul. Warlords have retaken much of the country and opium production is back at record levels, unseen since before the US aggression.

The US apointed Afghan leader recently made a plea to Americans, begging them, "please don't forget about us". Unfortunately, it's already happening.

But really, does anyone care? Do you guys actually think Afghanistan was about helping people too?

The fact that no one here has spoken of specifics to the situation is quite alarming to me. This whole, "We don't know but we're sure we still care!" mentality is sad. America destroyed the country, you think they'd atleast take an interest in what's left.

SLM3

SLM3 · 12-12-2003, 12:03 PM

edit: nevermind.

Lebell · 12-12-2003, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SLM3
Actually, the US has a firm hold on little outside of Kabul. Warlords have retaken much of the country and opium production is back at record levels, unseen since before the US aggression.

The US apointed Afghan leader recently made a plea to Americans, begging them, "please don't forget about us". Unfortunately, it's already happening.

But really, does anyone care? Do you guys actually think Afghanistan was about helping people too?

The fact that no one here has spoken of specifics to the situation is quite alarming to me. This whole, "We don't know but we're sure we still care!" mentality is sad. America destroyed the country, you think they'd atleast take an interest in what's left.

SLM3

???

I don't know where you get your news from, but mine comes from a young man that is stationed in Afghanistan and that isn't what he tells me.

There are dangerous areas of the country and yes, our troops have to be aware, but things are getting better for the average Afghani.

The people are also warm and courteous and seem glad to have us there instead of the taliban.

2wolves · 12-12-2003, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lebell
???

I don't know where you get your news from, but mine comes from a young man that is stationed in Afghanistan and that isn't what he tells me.

There are dangerous areas of the country and yes, our troops have to be aware, but things are getting better for the average Afghani.

The people are also warm and courteous and seem glad to have us there instead of the taliban.

I get my news from Marines stationed there and a fellow who's working for an NGO: the cities are more western, the rural/mountains have not changed alot since Alexander came through.

2Wolves

Mojo_PeiPei · 12-12-2003, 03:56 PM

Allies have no controll over Pushtan region on either side of the border (Afghan/pakistan). It is in this area where The Taliban still has a very popular following and is rebuilding itself. As for the warlords... The people themselves have to get out of that mindset and the mindset of the 12th century, its nothing us Americans can do for them.

2wolves · 12-12-2003, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mojo_PeiPei
Allies have no controll over Pushtan region on either side of the border (Afghan/pakistan). It is in this area where The Taliban still has a very popular following and is rebuilding itself. As for the warlords... The people themselves have to get out of that mindset and the mindset of the 12th century, its nothing us Americans can do for them.

Not a great deal has changed since Alexander waded through.

So it goes. - (Linda Ellerbee is a stone cold babe. yes Ladies there are men in the United States who find intellect arousing.

2Wolves)

Conclamo Ludus · 12-12-2003, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dragonlich
If I'm not mistaken, the US army is still (very) active in Afghanistan, and has recently started a new offensive against Taliban fighters. Just because you don't see it on the daily news, doesn't mean nothing is happening.

By the way, the can of worms was already open; the US merely exposed it, and is now trying to shut it again.

Operation Avalanche is the name of their new strike. Here is a link regarding the operation:

SUNTIMES NEWSPAPER LINK

Sadly they're biggest news so far is killing nine innocent children in an air strike, but this is a very large operation.

The article goes on to explain that there are still 11,700 soldiers in Afghanistan. I wouldn't call that forgetting. The Operation Avalanche consists of 2,000 soldiers.

The media has latched on to Iraq because of its controversy. If there was as much griping over Afghanistan as their was with Iraq, they would still be talking about it. Just because the media doesn't care, doesn't mean the US doesn't care.

silent_jay · 12-12-2003, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Phaenx
Afghanistan now has highways between the major cities and sky-scrapers. There's probably a Mc'Donalds and a few starbucks there by now. I wouldn't say it's abandoned at all, just because the media doesn't care about it doesn't mean the United States doesn't care about it.

are you sure you don't want to rethink this statement?

Phaenx · 12-13-2003, 12:43 AM

Which, the Afghanistan being commercialized or the media < United States?

silent_jay · 12-16-2003, 06:06 PM

if the US cared about Afghanistan as much as you say they do they would actually have a presence outside of Kabul and Kandahar. As for the skyscrapers and stuff?????

Ustwo · 12-16-2003, 06:16 PM

I saw today that 'they' opened a new major highway in afganistan today which will turn what took 2 days of travel into a 5 hour drive.

Oh well nothing to see here

Phaenx · 12-16-2003, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by silent_jay
if the US cared about Afghanistan as much as you say they do they would actually have a presence outside of Kabul and Kandahar. As for the skyscrapers and stuff?????

Yeah sure, we don't care about Afghanistan. Tear all that shit we put in there up and give the country back to the Taliban, because anything is better then America!

Aborted · 12-17-2003, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by silent_jay
if the US cared about Afghanistan as much as you say they do they would actually have a presence outside of Kabul and Kandahar. As for the skyscrapers and stuff?????

Everything you see or hear regarding Afghanistan is directly filtered through the media and therefore is unlikely to depict the monotonous task of rebuilding the country. All you're likely to get is a short, one sentence mention on the news assuring us all that work is being done there, but as a story it's far too boring to cover in any depth.

Kabul and Kandahar were and are the hotbeds of activity in Afghanistan, and so it makes sense that they are the places focussed on, to neglect them would be bad journalism.

It's only to be expected, people are far more worried about the next terrorist attack than Mr and Mrs Shah's brand new local McDonalds.

silent_jay · 12-17-2003, 06:59 AM

oh so then as long as the US looks after thwe hotbed of activity then thing are peachy, who cares about the rest of the country and the fact that warlords still run most of it. The only power Karzi has is in Kabul. As for this fancy highyway, wait for it just a matter of time before it is the new target. I'm sure the people of Afghanistan don't consider their country and it's country boring. Watch a Canadian newscast and you always hear about the reconstruction of this once great country.

Tear what down exactly??

Liquor Dealer · 12-17-2003, 08:17 AM

Never mind! You wouldn't understand... It must be great to live in a sanctimonious little world

silent_jay · 12-17-2003, 06:54 PM

it is rather nice thank you.

Aborted · 12-18-2003, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by silent_jay
oh so then as long as the US looks after thwe hotbed of activity then thing are peachy, who cares about the rest of the country and the fact that warlords still run most of it. The only power Karzi has is in Kabul. As for this fancy highyway, wait for it just a matter of time before it is the new target. I'm sure the people of Afghanistan don't consider their country and it's country boring. Watch a Canadian newscast and you always hear about the reconstruction of this once great country.

I was just explaining why I think we only ever hear about the same places over and over again, which in no way reflects my own personal view. I agree that we should get more coverage of the reconstruction work, but I also think that news from the more important areas such as Kabul should take precedence.

silent_jay · 12-18-2003, 03:54 PM

i don't consider any one part of Afghanistan more important than any other part, just because people live in seclusion doesn't mean they should not feel safe, after all these people were liberated weren't they?

SLM3 · 12-18-2003, 05:21 PM

According to the latest Economist:

Quote:

Two years after the fall of the Taliban, one can hardly look at Afghanistan and not reflect on things to come in Iraq. At least Saddam Hussein has been dragged out of his hole; Osama bin Laden is still at large. Afghanistan has yet to resolve its power struggles, and the resulting insecurity means that large portions of the country are off-limits to aid workers. The country exports little but opiates, and a reconstructed Afghanistan—let alone a prosperous one—still seems a very long way off. If anything, the loya jirga confirmed one truth: Afghanistan will be rebuilt only with the acquiescence of warlords and drug pushers

Sounds peachy.

SLM3

silent_jay · 12-18-2003, 05:27 PM

exactly i hope this countries children aren't doomed for a life of war like their parent's have. the world community should expand the peacekeepers beyond Kabul.
you're right SLM3 not a very positive future for either of these war torn nations

Conclamo Ludus · 12-18-2003, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by silent_jay
exactly i hope this countries children aren't doomed for a life of war like their parent's have. the world community should expand the peacekeepers beyond Kabul.
you're right SLM3 not a very positive future for either of these war torn nations

Not a very positive future with that kind of attitude. Never doom the future. Kabul is a start. It only makes sense to secure the largest cities first. It doesn't mean the US hates Afghani country-folk, its that you can't spread 11,700 troops evenly across the country and expect them to survive. Rebuilding takes years. And I would say as opposed to their former way of life, they will have a positive future. The Operation Avalanche involves going deeper into the countryside to fight other Taliban strongholds. How this would define "forgetting about Afghanistan" I don't know. Its true we could use more resources, we always could use more resources to do it better, so I understand that criticism but the US has hardly given up on Afghanistan. Who knows in 3 years you may be right.

silent_jay · 12-18-2003, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Conclamo Ludus
Not a very positive future with that kind of attitude. Never doom the future. Kabul is a start. It only makes sense to secure the largest cities first. It doesn't mean the US hates Afghani country-folk, its that you can't spread 11,700 troops evenly across the country and expect them to survive. Rebuilding takes years. And I would say as opposed to their former way of life, they will have a positive future. The Operation Avalanche involves going deeper into the countryside to fight other Taliban strongholds. How this would define "forgetting about Afghanistan" I don't know. Its true we could use more resources, we always could use more resources to do it better, so I understand that criticism but the US has hardly given up on Afghanistan. Who knows in 3 years you may be right.

i was supporting your argument and I never doomed the future i said i hoped it wasn't doomed not that it was doomed i also agree Kabul is a good start but time will tell what will happen

2wolves · 12-19-2003, 08:32 AM

"Two years after the fall of the Taliban, one can hardly look at Afghanistan and not reflect on things to come in Iraq. At least Saddam Hussein has been dragged out of his hole; Osama bin Laden is still at large. Afghanistan has yet to resolve its power struggles, and the resulting insecurity means that large portions of the country are off-limits to aid workers. The country exports little but opiates, and a reconstructed Afghanistan—let alone a prosperous one—still seems a very long way off. If anything, the loya jirga confirmed one truth: Afghanistan will be rebuilt only with the acquiescence of warlords and drug pushers."

Full story:
http://www.economist.com/world/asia/...ory_id=2300564

Karzi wants a strong-man type of presidency.

2Wolves

silent_jay · 12-21-2003, 11:24 AM

any president of afghanistan is going to have a hard job, they are going to have to get the approval of the nation as well as appear not to be a puppet regime, i am still undecided about Mr. Karzi as he doesn't wield much power outside Kabul they definitley need to take care that women as well as all the different ethnic groups are represented.

12-11-2003, 05:16 AM	#1 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	Has America forgotten about Afghanistan? With the war on terror in full swing and "Iraq the new frontline" has the US forgotten about the can of worms they opened in Afghanistan? Are they hoping the rest of the world will clean up this mess? __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

12-11-2003, 05:47 AM	#3 (permalink)
2wolves Psycho Location: Just outside the D.C. belt	The continuing war there will be brought home to the United States as heroin futures show steeply declining prices. Inexpensive smack is a leading indicator of, short term, less urban crime but also a trailing indicator of a larger addict population with severe increases in non-violent crime. Totally Open Market Capitalism! Fun for the entire family. 2Wolves __________________ Nation of the Cat. Forgive maybe, forget .... not quite yet.

12-11-2003, 08:47 PM	#6 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	it sure doesn't want anyone else to mention it. then those dirty names will come up (Osama,Omar) it's kinda like a where's Waldo when it comes to these people. __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

12-11-2003, 10:52 PM	#7 (permalink)
Phaenx The Northern Ward Location: Columbus, Ohio	Afghanistan now has highways between the major cities and sky-scrapers. There's probably a Mc'Donalds and a few starbucks there by now. I wouldn't say it's abandoned at all, just because the media doesn't care about it doesn't mean the United States doesn't care about it. __________________ "I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy

12-11-2003, 11:41 PM	#9 (permalink)
Phaenx The Northern Ward Location: Columbus, Ohio	Nothing will ever equate to success while a Republican is President for liberals. Well, unless Bush reveals that he's actually Jesus in disguise. Maybe not even then. Anyways, it couldn't hurt. A new civilized country may turn out to be a good trading partner in the long run. __________________ "I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy Last edited by Phaenx; 12-11-2003 at 11:52 PM..

12-11-2003, 05:39 AM	#2 (permalink)
Dragonlich 42, baby! Location: The Netherlands	If I'm not mistaken, the US army is still (very) active in Afghanistan, and has recently started a new offensive against Taliban fighters. Just because you don't see it on the daily news, doesn't mean nothing is happening. By the way, the can of worms was already open; the US merely exposed it, and is now trying to shut it again.

12-11-2003, 04:46 PM	#5 (permalink)
Kostya Little known... Location: Brisbane, Australia	It doesn't make for good publicity when you talk up how you're going to crush your enemy with new technology and over a year later Talibanis are walking around in broad daylight in some areas. The government hasn't forgotten about the Afghan conflict, but it sure as hell doesn't want everyone else to remember it...

12-11-2003, 11:04 PM	#8 (permalink)
Zeld2.0 Cherry-pickin' devil's advocate Location: Los Angeles	Yeah im sure they got a bunch of major cities and skyscrapers within a year since operations began and rockets are still flying around up there. Honestly though, I doubt MickeyD's or Starbucks there equates to U.S. success there in finding Osama or whatever.

12-12-2003, 10:49 AM	#10 (permalink)
TequilaJr Crazy	It's been said already, but I think it bears repeating: just because the media doesn't tell you about it doesn't mean it's not happening. If it's not sensational it doesn't get airtime, and fortunately that is the case in Afghanistan. I forget where I heard the line, but it went something like "It it doesn't bleed, it doesn't lead." I'm pretty sure it was a movie, but it's an accurate statement in regards to todays newscasts.

12-12-2003, 12:01 PM	#11 (permalink)
SLM3 Insane	Actually, the US has a firm hold on little outside of Kabul. Warlords have retaken much of the country and opium production is back at record levels, unseen since before the US aggression. The US apointed Afghan leader recently made a plea to Americans, begging them, "please don't forget about us". Unfortunately, it's already happening. But really, does anyone care? Do you guys actually think Afghanistan was about helping people too? The fact that no one here has spoken of specifics to the situation is quite alarming to me. This whole, "We don't know but we're sure we still care!" mentality is sad. America destroyed the country, you think they'd atleast take an interest in what's left. SLM3 Last edited by SLM3; 12-12-2003 at 12:05 PM..

12-12-2003, 12:03 PM	#12 (permalink)
SLM3 Insane	edit: nevermind.

12-12-2003, 03:56 PM	#15 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	Allies have no controll over Pushtan region on either side of the border (Afghan/pakistan). It is in this area where The Taliban still has a very popular following and is rebuilding itself. As for the warlords... The people themselves have to get out of that mindset and the mindset of the 12th century, its nothing us Americans can do for them. __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

12-13-2003, 12:43 AM	#19 (permalink)
Phaenx The Northern Ward Location: Columbus, Ohio	Which, the Afghanistan being commercialized or the media < United States? __________________ "I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy

12-16-2003, 06:06 PM	#20 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	if the US cared about Afghanistan as much as you say they do they would actually have a presence outside of Kabul and Kandahar. As for the skyscrapers and stuff????? __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

12-16-2003, 06:16 PM	#21 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	I saw today that 'they' opened a new major highway in afganistan today which will turn what took 2 days of travel into a 5 hour drive. Oh well nothing to see here __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

12-17-2003, 06:59 AM	#24 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	oh so then as long as the US looks after thwe hotbed of activity then thing are peachy, who cares about the rest of the country and the fact that warlords still run most of it. The only power Karzi has is in Kabul. As for this fancy highyway, wait for it just a matter of time before it is the new target. I'm sure the people of Afghanistan don't consider their country and it's country boring. Watch a Canadian newscast and you always hear about the reconstruction of this once great country. Tear what down exactly?? __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

12-17-2003, 08:17 AM	#25 (permalink)
Liquor Dealer Super Agitator Location: Just SW of Nowhere!!! In the good old US of A	Never mind! You wouldn't understand... It must be great to live in a sanctimonious little world __________________ Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

12-17-2003, 06:54 PM	#26 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	it is rather nice thank you. __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

12-18-2003, 03:54 PM	#28 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	i don't consider any one part of Afghanistan more important than any other part, just because people live in seclusion doesn't mean they should not feel safe, after all these people were liberated weren't they? __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

12-18-2003, 05:27 PM	#30 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	exactly i hope this countries children aren't doomed for a life of war like their parent's have. the world community should expand the peacekeepers beyond Kabul. you're right SLM3 not a very positive future for either of these war torn nations __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

12-19-2003, 08:32 AM	#33 (permalink)
2wolves Psycho Location: Just outside the D.C. belt	"Two years after the fall of the Taliban, one can hardly look at Afghanistan and not reflect on things to come in Iraq. At least Saddam Hussein has been dragged out of his hole; Osama bin Laden is still at large. Afghanistan has yet to resolve its power struggles, and the resulting insecurity means that large portions of the country are off-limits to aid workers. The country exports little but opiates, and a reconstructed Afghanistan—let alone a prosperous one—still seems a very long way off. If anything, the loya jirga confirmed one truth: Afghanistan will be rebuilt only with the acquiescence of warlords and drug pushers." Full story: http://www.economist.com/world/asia/...ory_id=2300564 Karzi wants a strong-man type of presidency. 2Wolves __________________ Nation of the Cat. Forgive maybe, forget .... not quite yet.

12-21-2003, 11:24 AM	#34 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	any president of afghanistan is going to have a hard job, they are going to have to get the approval of the nation as well as appear not to be a puppet regime, i am still undecided about Mr. Karzi as he doesn't wield much power outside Kabul they definitley need to take care that women as well as all the different ethnic groups are represented. __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder