Just think if GWB said this.... - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Ustwo · 12-08-2003, 10:42 PM

Quote:

DEAN: Iran is a more complex problem because the problem support as clearly verifiable as it is in North Korea. Also, we have less-fewer levers much the key, I believe, to Iran is pressure through the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union is supplying much of the equipment that Iran, I believe, most likely is using to set itself along the path of developing nuclear weapons. We need to use that leverage with the Soviet Union and it may require us to buying the equipment the Soviet Union was ultimately going to sell to Iran to prevent Iran from them developing nuclear weapons. That is also a country that must not be allowed to develop nuclear weapons much the key to all this is foresight. Let’s act now so we don’t have to have a confrontation which may result in force, which would be very disastrous in the case of North Korea and might be disastrous in the case of Iran.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/1000254.asp

I don't think there is much I can add to this, other then to point out its not the only time he made this mistake in the interview.

Can you IMAGINE what would have happened if Bush said the same thing?

irateplatypus · 12-08-2003, 11:12 PM

wow, how bizarre.

if the President had said this on national television, the publicity from this would be just incredible. we'd get news blurbs from cnn like... "coming up after the break, the french reaction to the fallout from the Bush blunder."

i'm not sure why these things are reported that often when they come from liberals. i'll be very surprised if i see jon stewart even touches this one.

smooth · 12-08-2003, 11:53 PM

Do either of you mind stating what you perceive to be the problem in the provided quotation?

Locobot · 12-09-2003, 02:45 AM

Yeah are we talking about grammar or a political mistake? If it's the former then wow, he flubbed a few verbs during an hour long interview. We all know that Bush would never make these mistakes because he's incapable of carrying on an open hour-long interview. Bush just cant think on his feet. Note: I'm not calling him stupid, he's not. Doesn't it bother some of you that our president and leader of the free world almost never speaks without a reading from a scripted speech? Isn't the ability to synthesize and generate original thoughts on the spot a quality we should require in a president?

apechild · 12-09-2003, 05:41 AM

uh, guys, the "soviet union" - nevermind...

onetime2 · 12-09-2003, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Locobot
Yeah are we talking about grammar or a political mistake? If it's the former then wow, he flubbed a few verbs during an hour long interview. We all know that Bush would never make these mistakes because he's incapable of carrying on an open hour-long interview. Bush just cant think on his feet. Note: I'm not calling him stupid, he's not. Doesn't it bother some of you that our president and leader of the free world almost never speaks without a reading from a scripted speech? Isn't the ability to synthesize and generate original thoughts on the spot a quality we should require in a president?

I agree, he is not stupid. He may not be the most eloquent President ever, nor the quickest, but he has definitely given non scripted interviews and shown at least some capacity to thinking on his feet (there is most definitely room for improvement in that area though).

A quick Google search shows he has given interviews of at least an hour to the following:

Barbara Walters
Charles Gibson
Scott Pelley

There were also quite a few hour plus interviews detailed to news services or television programs but they didn't supply reporter names. These included Reuters, Czech tv, and several other outlets.

I am sure he was not reading from a script on these occasions. Plenty of appearances by Presidents throughout history were "scripted" because there are certain points he wants/needs to get across. The Gettysburg address was "scripted" but is still quite historically compelling.

lurkette · 12-09-2003, 06:26 AM

There's a difference between an obviously thoughtful and informed man making a slip like this, and listening to someone who clearly has no idea what he is talking about (i.e., Dean probably knows the Soviet Union is defunct and just misspoke, while it wouldn't have been clear had Bush said it, especially a couple of years ago, that he possessed that knowledge). I think the "Bushisms" thing has gotten kind of old and tired - half of them are just slips that most people could make - but the fact is that, at least early in his political career, Bush had no fricking clue what he was talking about when it came to most issues beyond American borders (and a few within the borders), and THAT'S why people jumped all over things. You're right that there's probably a double-standard, and if Bush said this today he'd probably be mocked a bit, but that's because he's created ample precedent and made himself a bit of a target through past blunders.

smooth · 12-09-2003, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by apechild
uh, guys, the "soviet union" - nevermind...

Thanks for pointing out what was getting their scivvies all bunched up.

Now I don't have to "IMAGINE" what would have happened if Bush made the same blunder; I now know that I wouldn't have given a shit, which is how I feel about this incident and thread.

Kadath · 12-09-2003, 07:12 AM

"When you start with nothing but an article and a single line, don't call me a troll for not discussing as you presented nothing to discuss. " -- Ustwo.

Ustwo · 12-09-2003, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kadath
"When you start with nothing but an article and a single line, don't call me a troll for not discussing as you presented nothing to discuss. " -- Ustwo.

Congratulations, someone caught me! You win an all expense paid trip to the Soviet Union

Kadath · 12-09-2003, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ustwo
Congratulations, someone caught me! You win an all expense paid trip to the Soviet Union

You make it sound hard to do. I'm trying to figure out what is special about this trip. Ignoring the fact that the SU doesn't exist anymore, maybe you're implying that the SU is the former home of total hypocrisy, and since I'm so good at spotting it, my prize is to go there and bask in the warm glow.

Conclamo Ludus · 12-09-2003, 11:56 AM

I think this was just after his trip to Constantinople. It can get confusing some times.

onetime2 · 12-09-2003, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Conclamo Ludus
I think this was just after his trip to Constantinople. It can get confusing some times.

LOL.

Istanbul was Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Now it's Turkish delight on a moonlit night

Every gal in Constantinople
Lives in Istanbul, not Constantinople
So if you've a date in Constantinople
She'll be waiting in Istanbul

Even old New York was once New Amsterdam
Why they changed it I can't say
People just liked it better that way

So take me back to Constantinople
No, you can't go back to Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works?
That's nobody's business but the Turks

Istanbul (Istanbul)
Istanbul (Istanbul)

Even old New York was once New Amsterdam
Why they changed it I can't say
People just liked it better that way

Istanbul was Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works?
That's nobody's business but the Turks

So take me back to Constantinople
No, you can't go back to Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works?
That's nobody's business but the Turks

Istanbul

Conclamo Ludus · 12-09-2003, 12:12 PM

I was waiting for someone to cue the music.

Ustwo · 12-09-2003, 01:24 PM

Why do I have a feeling that a lot of people didn't catch the mistake Dean made? (Clue, it wasn't his poor syntax.)

smooth · 12-09-2003, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ustwo
Why do I have a feeling that a lot of people didn't catch the mistake Dean made? (Clue, it wasn't his poor syntax.)

Because we told you we didn't catch the mistake and asked you to clarify your point.

Astrocloud · 12-09-2003, 03:07 PM

I think the error isn't that Howard Dean is publically speaking about Shiite Nukes... Rather that Bush isn't. -Aside from a few bellicose statements -Bush obviously isn't concerned about the future of this problem beyond his single term.

Kadath · 12-09-2003, 08:30 PM

If Bush had said this, some people would have rolled their eyes and said "Another boneheaded screwup by the moron" and some people would have been comforted that the President is plain spoken and makes mistakes just like them, same as every other time Bush has made some geographical or political malaprop. That Dean reverted to a term he's used for most of his life is embarassing, but I don't think it's tragic or a sign he's as bad at public speaking as Bush is. Not that I like Dean.

Sparhawk · 12-09-2003, 08:51 PM

I don't think we need to recall Bush's last hour with Chris Matthews, do we? While I'm on the subject though, an advertisement I saw for his show really burned me today. It went through a bunch of politicians stammering and stuttering between cuts of Chris Matthews asking "tough questions" and ending with Kissinger going "Ummm..."

It's debate tv at its absolute worst/amateurish/childish.

filtherton · 12-10-2003, 02:02 PM

I don't think bush would've said anything like this, he would have just mumbled something about the axis of evil and moved on.
Whatever, maybe you can bring this up again when dean makes enough of these to fill a calendar.

12-08-2003, 11:12 PM	#2 (permalink)
irateplatypus can't help but laugh Location: dar al-harb	wow, how bizarre. if the President had said this on national television, the publicity from this would be just incredible. we'd get news blurbs from cnn like... "coming up after the break, the french reaction to the fallout from the Bush blunder." i'm not sure why these things are reported that often when they come from liberals. i'll be very surprised if i see jon stewart even touches this one. __________________ If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves. ~ Winston Churchill

12-08-2003, 11:53 PM	#3 (permalink)
smooth Junkie Location: Right here	Do either of you mind stating what you perceive to be the problem in the provided quotation? __________________ "The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann "You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

12-09-2003, 05:41 AM	#5 (permalink)
apechild Crazy Location: Vermont	uh, guys, the "soviet union" - nevermind... __________________ Skwerl. Its wuts fer dinner.

12-09-2003, 06:26 AM	#7 (permalink)
lurkette My future is coming on Moderator Emeritus Location: east of the sun and west of the moon	There's a difference between an obviously thoughtful and informed man making a slip like this, and listening to someone who clearly has no idea what he is talking about (i.e., Dean probably knows the Soviet Union is defunct and just misspoke, while it wouldn't have been clear had Bush said it, especially a couple of years ago, that he possessed that knowledge). I think the "Bushisms" thing has gotten kind of old and tired - half of them are just slips that most people could make - but the fact is that, at least early in his political career, Bush had no fricking clue what he was talking about when it came to most issues beyond American borders (and a few within the borders), and THAT'S why people jumped all over things. You're right that there's probably a double-standard, and if Bush said this today he'd probably be mocked a bit, but that's because he's created ample precedent and made himself a bit of a target through past blunders. __________________ "If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." - Anatole France

12-09-2003, 07:12 AM	#9 (permalink)
Kadath Muffled Location: Camazotz	"When you start with nothing but an article and a single line, don't call me a troll for not discussing as you presented nothing to discuss. " -- Ustwo. __________________ it's quiet in here

12-09-2003, 02:45 AM	#4 (permalink)
Locobot is awesome!	Yeah are we talking about grammar or a political mistake? If it's the former then wow, he flubbed a few verbs during an hour long interview. We all know that Bush would never make these mistakes because he's incapable of carrying on an open hour-long interview. Bush just cant think on his feet. Note: I'm not calling him stupid, he's not. Doesn't it bother some of you that our president and leader of the free world almost never speaks without a reading from a scripted speech? Isn't the ability to synthesize and generate original thoughts on the spot a quality we should require in a president?

12-09-2003, 11:56 AM	#12 (permalink)
Conclamo Ludus Modern Man Location: West Michigan	I think this was just after his trip to Constantinople. It can get confusing some times. __________________ Lord, have mercy on my wicked soul I wouldn't mistreat you baby, for my weight in gold. -Son House, Death Letter Blues

12-09-2003, 12:12 PM	#14 (permalink)
Conclamo Ludus Modern Man Location: West Michigan	I was waiting for someone to cue the music.

12-09-2003, 01:24 PM	#15 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	Why do I have a feeling that a lot of people didn't catch the mistake Dean made? (Clue, it wasn't his poor syntax.) __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

12-09-2003, 03:07 PM	#17 (permalink)
Astrocloud Apocalypse Nerd	I think the error isn't that Howard Dean is publically speaking about Shiite Nukes... Rather that Bush isn't. -Aside from a few bellicose statements -Bush obviously isn't concerned about the future of this problem beyond his single term.

12-09-2003, 08:30 PM	#18 (permalink)
Kadath Muffled Location: Camazotz	If Bush had said this, some people would have rolled their eyes and said "Another boneheaded screwup by the moron" and some people would have been comforted that the President is plain spoken and makes mistakes just like them, same as every other time Bush has made some geographical or political malaprop. That Dean reverted to a term he's used for most of his life is embarassing, but I don't think it's tragic or a sign he's as bad at public speaking as Bush is. Not that I like Dean. __________________ it's quiet in here

12-09-2003, 08:51 PM	#19 (permalink)
Sparhawk Dubya Location: VA	I don't think we need to recall Bush's last hour with Chris Matthews, do we? While I'm on the subject though, an advertisement I saw for his show really burned me today. It went through a bunch of politicians stammering and stuttering between cuts of Chris Matthews asking "tough questions" and ending with Kissinger going "Ummm..." It's debate tv at its absolute worst/amateurish/childish. __________________ "In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

12-10-2003, 02:02 PM	#20 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	I don't think bush would've said anything like this, he would have just mumbled something about the axis of evil and moved on. Whatever, maybe you can bring this up again when dean makes enough of these to fill a calendar.