UK Voters Show Pro-US Surge On Verge Of Bush Visit - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Conclamo Ludus · 11-17-2003, 07:08 PM

Interesting poll results. When I hear so much about anti-American sentiments overseas, it would seem from these numbers that UK voters see the US as a force for good. Not just the Tory's either, the Labour party have plenty of warm sentiments too.

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/iraq/...087545,00.html

I wonder if this is just a temporary surge of support, or if we are seeing a pendulum swinging back. We all know how wild polls can be skewed. I usually don't trust them for anything other than novelty. But nevertheless I'd thought I'd share.

Quote:

A majority of Labour voters welcome President George Bush's state visit to Britain which starts today, according to November's Guardian/ICM opinion poll.

The survey shows that public opinion in Britain is overwhelmingly pro-American with 62% of voters believing that the US is "generally speaking a force for good, not evil, in the world". It explodes the conventional political wisdom at Westminster that Mr Bush's visit will prove damaging to Tony Blair. Only 15% of British voters agree with the idea that America is the "evil empire" in the world.

Mr Blair insisted last night that he had made the right decision in inviting Mr Bush to Britain as an unprecedented security operation got under way to prepare for his arrival today. More than 14,000 police officers at a cost of £5m will be on duty during the four-day visit, with tens of thousands of anti-war protesters are expected to take to the streets.

The ICM poll also uncovers a surge in pro-war sentiment in the past two months as suicide bombers have stepped up their attacks on western targets and troops in Iraq. Opposition to the war has slumped by 12 points since September to only 41% of all voters. At the same time those who believe the war was justified has jumped 9 points to 47% of voters.

This swing in the mood of British voters is echoed in the poll's finding that two-thirds of voters believe British and American troops should not pull out of Iraq now but instead stay until the situation is "more stable".

It also may explain the beginnings of a recovery in Tony Blair's personal ratings in this month's Guardian poll. He still remains an unpopular prime minister with 52% unhappy with the job he is doing, compared with 40% who say they are satisfied with his performance. But the prime minister's net popularity rating of minus 12 points is a significant improvement over last month's net rating of minus 18 points.

The detailed results of the poll show that more people - 43% - say they welcome George Bush's arrival in Britain than the 36% who say they would prefer he did not come.

Labour voters are more enthusiastic about the visit than Tory voters. But it is only Liberal Democrats who are marginally more unhappy about his arrival, with 43% against and 39% willing to welcome him. A majority of "twentysomethings" welcome Mr Bush. Hostility is strongest amongst the over-65s. There is a clear gender gap in attitudes with a majority of men - 51% - welcoming the president's arrival, compared with only 35% of women.

Pro-Americanism, as might be expected, is strongest among Tory voters with 71% saying the US is a force for good. But it is nearly matched by the 66% of Labour voters who say the US is a force for good. Anti-Americanism is strongest among Liberal Democrat voters but is still only shared by 24% of them and the majority see the US as the "good guys".

Mr Blair told the CBI national conference in Birmingham yesterday of his support for the war on terrorism, saying: "Now is not the time to waver but see it through."

In unscripted remarks, he said the weekend terrorist bombings in Turkey, the recent attacks in Saudi Arabia and continuing bombings in Iraq, meant Britain should "stand firm with the United States of America in defeating terrorism wherever it is and delivering us safely from what I genuinely believe is the security threat of the 21st century".

But Mr Blair made plain he completely backed the EU's stance against the US over illegal tariffs on steel imports, insisting that Washington must now respond to the World Trade Organisation ruling: "There will be from time to time these disagreements on issues to do with trade and we must stick very firmly to our position."

The prime minister also reaffirmed his vision of Britain as a bridge between the US and Europe.

"I firmly believe we have two big foreign policy pillars, the US alliance and our position in the EU. There's absolutely no reason to yield up either and we will not," he said to loud applause.

· ICM interviewed a random sample of 1,002 adults aged 18 and over by telephone between November 14-16, 2003. Interviews were conducted across the country and the results have been weighted to the profile of all adults.

Sparhawk · 11-17-2003, 07:18 PM

Personally, I think:

Quote:

Only 15% of British voters agree with the idea that America is the "evil empire" in the world.

is friggin scary. An eight of voters in our biggest ally think we're the 'evil empire'. I mean, WTF....

nirol · 11-17-2003, 08:51 PM

The polls are interesting, but there still is a strong minority of people who disagree with the US. We have a lot of work to do in Iraq before this settles out.

HarmlessRabbit · 11-18-2003, 12:29 AM

The poll originally posted seems to be in direct contrast to this one:

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/articl...TICLE_ID=35646

Quote:

1 in 3 Brits call Bush 'stupid'
Poll: Majority consider U.S. leader threat to world peace
Posted: November 17, 2003
1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com

Most people living in Great Britain – America's closest ally – believe George W. Bush is a threat to world peace, and at least 1 in 3 characterize the U.S. president as stupid, according to an opinion poll conducted by Britain's Sunday Times and published over the weekend.

Bush is scheduled to arrive in London tomorrow, preparatory to a three-day state visit.

British Prime Minister Tony Blair, who staunchly supported Bush during the war, has seen his own approval ratings plunge over Iraq.

According to a Reuters report, Blair conceded that opponents of the Bush administration's preemptive Iraq policy "are rubbing their hands at the scope for embarrassing him." Writing in Britain's leading Sunday tabloid, The News of the World, Blair added: "But I believe passionately there could not be a better moment for him to come to the UK than now. …Despite the doubters, I am convinced the visit of President Bush this week is in the best interests of this country and the world."

Bush's visit, the first such state visit by a U.S. president since Ronald Reagan's in 1982, is expected to be met with widespread demonstrations by protestors, reported Reuters.

As reported by Agence France-Presse:

* 60 percent of those surveyed thought Bush was a threat to world peace while only seven percent said he was a good world leader.

* A majority of 53 percent to 41 percent supported demonstrations planned for Bush's three-day stay.

* 45 percent to 43 percent said Britain and the U.S. were wrong to go to war with Iraq.

* 73 percent expect the security situation in Iraq to get worse over the next few months.

* 37 percent called the U.S. president "stupid," while only 6 percent described him as articulate and 10 percent as intelligent.

Nevertheless, reports AFP, only 20 percent of those Britons polled said British forces in Iraq should be withdrawn immediately, and 26 percent said they should return home within six months regardless of the security situation. However, 47 percent – almost half – believed Britain had a duty to keep forces in Iraq.

The polling organization YouGov questioned 1,934 people on Thursday and Friday for the Sunday Times poll.

Personally, the original posted poll seems a little fishy to me. It says that the majority of people polled think that the USA is a force for good in the world, but the story doesn't mention whether anyone was questioned about their opinion of Bush directly.

Moskie · 11-18-2003, 01:18 AM

Quote:

62% of voters believing that the US is "generally speaking a force for good, not evil, in the world".

Echoing what HR said... One can believe that the US (as a whole, throughout history) is non-malevolent, while not liking Bush or the war in Iraq. I think this poll is just being used as spin. It asks a vague, broad question about the US, and you can make it say anything you want.

Quote:

This swing in the mood of British voters is echoed in the poll's finding that two-thirds of voters believe British and American troops should not pull out of Iraq now but instead stay until the situation is "more stable".

Also fishy. People who want the troops to stay are being rational, not pro-Bush.

Quote:

The detailed results of the poll show that more people - 43% - say they welcome George Bush's arrival in Britain than the 36% who say they would prefer he did not come.

This doesn't really say anything about anything. Nothing is accomplished by him *not* coming... I don't know, I could be against a politician, and still welcome him into my country. At the same time, a Brit could be pro-Bush, but may not like having to put up with all those street closures.

Quote:

Opposition to the war has slumped by 12 points since September to only 41% of all voters. At the same time those who believe the war was justified has jumped 9 points to 47% of voters.

Whew, finally, poll numbers that say something!

Conclamo Ludus · 11-18-2003, 08:24 AM

I didn't mean for this to be a pro-Bush poll, the important thing is that regardless it shows a pro-US ideal that hasn't disintegrated too far.

Quote:

Originally posted by HarmlessRabbit
The poll originally posted seems to be in direct contrast to this one:

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/articl...TICLE_ID=35646

Personally, the original posted poll seems a little fishy to me. It says that the majority of people polled think that the USA is a force for good in the world, but the story doesn't mention whether anyone was questioned about their opinion of Bush directly.

You are saying it is fishy because it didn't ask about Bush? It wasn't about Bush, it was obviously about the questions in which it asked, the poll was about the US being a force for good, not about their opinion of Bush. A poll that is about a different topic than what you were looking for doesn't make it "fishy", at least in my opinion.

If anything we could combine your WorldNet poll and my Guardian poll and it would show that people don't care for Bush but they are certainly happy with the US.

Quote:

Originally posted by Moskie
[B] Echoing what HR said... One can believe that the US (as a whole, throughout history) is non-malevolent, while not liking Bush or the war in Iraq. I think this poll is just being used as spin. It asks a vague, broad question about the US, and you can make it say anything you want.

The poll isn't about Bush. They aren't saying it is, neither am I.

Quote:

Also fishy. People who want the troops to stay are being rational, not pro-Bush.

Again, there is nothing that ever suggested they were pro-Bush.

Quote:

This doesn't really say anything about anything. Nothing is accomplished by him *not* coming... I don't know, I could be against a politician, and still welcome him into my country. At the same time, a Brit could be pro-Bush, but may not like having to put up with all those street closures.

All it says is that they don't hate America. This was my point in posting it up. I find it comforting, that despite their obvious overall opposition to Iraq, and Bush as a leader, they still view us as "a force for good in this world."

Moskie · 11-18-2003, 09:10 AM

Whoops, sorry about that Conclamo. In retrospect, I think I read the thread title as "Pro-Bush surge". My bad. Also, the first line of the article is:

Quote:

"A majority of Labour voters welcome President George Bush's state visit to Britain which starts today, according to November's Guardian/ICM opinion poll."

So I think I had it in my head that these polls were trying to show that British citizens were becoming pro-Bush. I can see how I might have read it wrong, though.

An added perspective... I'm studying in Mannheim, Germany for a semester right now, and I'm very pleased with how Germans here treat me. I was a little afraid of perhaps some anti-American prejudice, but I've quickly learned that people have nothing against the US or its citizens as a whole, they simply don't like Bush. And they are able to keep that distinction very clear, either intentionally or just by their nature. At least, that's the impression I've gotten from people here in Mannheim.

Conclamo Ludus · 11-18-2003, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Moskie
Whoops, sorry about that Conclamo. In retrospect, I think I read the thread title as "Pro-Bush surge". My bad. Also, the first line of the article is: So I think I had it in my head that these polls were trying to show that British citizens were becoming pro-Bush. I can see how I might have read it wrong, though.

An added perspective... I'm studying in Mannheim, Germany for a semester right now, and I'm very pleased with how Germans here treat me. I was a little afraid of perhaps some anti-American prejudice, but I've quickly learned that people have nothing against the US or its citizens as a whole, they simply don't like Bush. And they are able to keep that distinction very clear, either intentionally or just by their nature. At least, that's the impression I've gotten from people here in Mannheim.

This is what I suspected about the anti-american shadow that we hear so much about, I think that it is more anti-Bush than anything else, and will either warm-over towards Bush, or more likely blow over eventually with a change in presidency in '04 at least '08. Personally I am relatively pro-Bush, but I haven't made up my vote this early. There is much I disapprove of in his actions, and much I approve of in his "ideals".

Enjoy Germany, never been there, but would love to go!

11-17-2003, 08:51 PM	#3 (permalink)
nirol Crazy Location: South East US	The polls are interesting, but there still is a strong minority of people who disagree with the US. We have a lot of work to do in Iraq before this settles out. __________________ 'Tis better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than open one's mouth and remove all doubt. Samuel Johnson (1709 - 1784)