More Jessica Lynch Exploitation $$$: Anally Raped - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Jesus Pimp · 11-06-2003, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Fiends raped Jessica

By PAUL D. COLFORD and CORKY SIEMASZKO
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS

Pvt. Jessica Lynch
Jessica Lynch was brutally raped by her Iraqi captors.

That is the shocking revelation in "I Am a Soldier, Too," the much-anticipated authorized biography of the former POW. A copy of the book was obtained by The Daily News yesterday.

Best selling author Rick Bragg tells Lynch's story for her, often using her own words. Thankfully, she has no memory of the rape.

"Jessi lost three hours," Bragg wrote. "She lost them in the snapping bones, in the crash of the Humvee, in the torment her enemies inflicted on her after she was pulled from it."

The scars on Lynch's battered body and the medical records indicate she was anally raped, and "fill in the blanks of what Jessi lived through on the morning of March 23, 2003," Bragg wrote.

"The records do not tell whether her captors assaulted her almost lifeless, broken body after she was lifted from the wreckage, or if they assaulted her and then broke her bones into splinters until she was almost dead."

The 207-page saga published by Knopf hits bookstores on Tuesday, which is Veterans Day.

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/sto...p-119598c.html

When will the propaganda end? /waits for book tour and made for tv movie

Ustwo · 11-06-2003, 09:54 AM

So you are saying it didn't happen?

Are you saying its a private matter between Lynch and her Iraqi captors?

Are you afraid that this information will sway public opinion in a way you don't want it to go?

mml · 11-06-2003, 10:06 AM

I've got to agree with Ustwo, what are you getting at J.P.? And I think the T.V. movie (sans the anal rape) will air this Sunday night.

mb99usa · 11-06-2003, 10:18 AM

I've heard 2 different stories about what happened to her.I have nothing to back this up other than a few news reports I heard regarding this. Take it as you will. Just something to keep in mind. This is not to detract from what she went through but just to question how much of what we are being told is truth.

The first is the military story - the one everybody is familiar with.

The second is somewhat different -

The vehicle crash was driver error. She was the only to survive the crash and was rescued by the Iraqi's and medically treated in the hospital she was taken too. The Iraqi's then tried to deliver her to a passing US patrol which mistook the approaching ambulances as hostile and fired on them. The Iraqi's fled and returned to the hospital still with Lynch.

The patrol alerted military leaders about what they had experienced and it was rightly determined that is where Lynch was being held. Here is where it gets a little political. Sentiment for the war was starting to wane a little and something was needed to returnfavor to the war. What better way than a dramatic rescue.

The story goes that the Iraqi's saw the approaching Special Forces detachment and fled the hospital. The SF raided an empty hospital all while video taping it for the evening news. They got there "rescue" and changed the tone of the war.

Her "amnesia" related to the incident. Prompted by free medical coverage and an immediate honorable discharge.

Conclamo Ludus · 11-06-2003, 11:02 AM

This Jessica Lynch thing has been blown out of proportion, but I doubt the second story by mb99usa has much truth to it. The truth may be somewhere inbetween but the second story sounds like a cynical conspiracy theorists idea of how it happened. The only thing that is left out is the US marines anally raping her so that they could have some proof of the scars. I've heard some twisted versions of this, but this one seems a little too much. Are there any sources for it at all?

mb99usa · 11-06-2003, 11:11 AM

No I don't have any sources. I work near DC and remember hearing something like this on one of the morning shows way back when she was first brought home. Like I stated in my original post it could be complete bullshit.

I refuse to swallow the military's story as fact. I agree that the truth is somewhere in between but there is no denying the timing of when the "rescue" occurred and how easy it went for the Spec. Ops guys.

Redlemon · 11-06-2003, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Conclamo Ludus
I've heard some twisted versions of this, but this one seems a little too much. Are there any sources for it at all?

It was a BBC documentary. Here is one article on CNN regarding it.

eple · 11-06-2003, 11:15 AM

post removed by Lebell

mb99usa · 11-06-2003, 11:18 AM

Thanks redlemon. I knew I had heard the story just not sure where it was from.

Liquor Dealer · 11-06-2003, 11:20 AM

I think, that unless it is proved otherwise - or you want to go back in time and take her place, then her story is what it is. Do you honestly think they just threw in the sex to play with ratings. In a nation that used rape in many forms as both torture and punishment I think it might even be illogical to assume she wasn't raped.

eple · 11-06-2003, 11:22 AM

Oh my, it's working too...
heheh, anally raped...crazy Americans

seretogis · 11-06-2003, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by eple
post removed by Lebell

eple · 11-06-2003, 11:28 AM

mb99usa · 11-06-2003, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Liquor Dealer
I think, that unless it is proved otherwise - or you want to go back in time and take her place, then her story is what it is.

I may have missed something but I have never heard anything from her directly. I have heard and read press releases. I have heard and read military information releases.

I'm just saying that the sources a lot of the information is coming from have a lot to gain from this remaining "a heroic rescue mission for a heroic service woman."

As far as I am concerned she did nothing heroic. She went through a horrific ordeal but nothing was heroic about it. What makes what she did anymore heroic than a kidnap victim who the police rescue?

Now if the true story is what the military has put out than what the rescuers did was heroic. But even that is suspect. They attacked a hospital not a military installation.

reconmike · 11-06-2003, 11:32 AM

First of all, I dont see how she is being exploited.

I am with LD on this one, if she says she was and it was verified by a medical exam where is the problem?

Next it will be that she wasnt even there and it was all staged on a movie set in hollyweird.

I really hope that in GW1 I greased some of their parents.

f00sion · 11-06-2003, 12:01 PM

I think its amazing how fast they have been able to publish a book and make a movie. ..hasn't it been only 3 or 4 months?

Conclamo Ludus · 11-06-2003, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mb99usa
I may have missed something but I have never heard anything from her directly. I have heard and read press releases. I have heard and read military information releases.

I'm just saying that the sources a lot of the information is coming from have a lot to gain from this remaining "a heroic rescue mission for a heroic service woman."

The problem is that a lot of people will gain by discrediting her story too. That's why you have to take it all with a grain of salt. Was it as dramatic as they've made it all out to be? No probably not. It was probably far worse to experience than it could be expressed on film, even if the BBC version were true. Its easy to cynically dismiss her story, and part of me wants to, but then again part of me can imagine if she were my sister, or daughter, or good friend. The anal rape thing is pretty bothersome, I'm surprised that people find this so funny. I wonder who made this up. Was it the US Marine Corp? Was it Bush? Was it Jessica Lynch? Was it the GOP? Was it the doctors who examined her?

As for her heroism? She's not any more of a hero than any other person in uniform in my book. I'm appreciative of our armed forces in general. Rarely do the people worshipped as heroes, desire the title "hero". I think if I were in a position to be labeled a "hero" it would bother the hell out of me. Ah well...

mb99usa · 11-06-2003, 12:38 PM

How do we know she was anally raped? Because the medical records indicate it?

Whichever story you believe she was in a vehicle that was severly damaged. She could have received a blow to the rectum during whatever occurred.

eple · 11-06-2003, 12:44 PM

I'm still calling bullshit on this one. Smells Waaaay to much of cheap propaganda.

danielboy · 11-06-2003, 12:53 PM

Who here would watch the movie or buy the book?

I hear that some other soldiers were also captured, but they got no book deal or movie deal. Why did people focus on this one girl?

Liquor Dealer · 11-06-2003, 12:56 PM

I don't think that the term "hero" fits at all - she was a victim and nothing more. She may have been heroic or not - it makes no difference - the only thing that matters is she was a POW and was rescued - that in itself makes her a special person - She quite obviously, even to the most skeptical, had a very rough time of it.

mb99usa · 11-06-2003, 12:59 PM

Not gonna buy the book or watch the movie. I don't want to make this anymore important than it has already been manufactured to.

reconmike · 11-06-2003, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mb99usa
Not gonna buy the book or watch the movie. I don't want to make this anymore important than it has already been manufactured to.

I would be willing to bet if she was your sister/wife/family member then it would be extremely important.
Hero status even.

Conclamo Ludus · 11-06-2003, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mb99usa
How do we know she was anally raped? Because the medical records indicate it?

Whichever story you believe she was in a vehicle that was severly damaged. She could have received a blow to the rectum during whatever occurred.

I'm just going on what the medical records supposedly say. Of course she could've gotten a "blow to the rectum" but I think a medical examiner could tell the difference. I'm not an expert though. But I'm just wondering who you think made it up? Who decided that it was going to be part of the story that she was anally raped? As I asked earlier was it the armed forces? Was it her ghostwriter maybe? Was it her? Was it George W Bush? Her doctors?

This is what they say she is claiming in her book. I'm not going to buy it and read it, I really don't care about it all that much. I'm afraid its already been inflated and deflated too much to be interesting. It's too bad she's going to be at the center of partisanship too. There are those who are jumping on her story and trying to make a lot of money off of it. Then there are those who are using it as another reason to distrust the US government. Ah well...

mb99usa · 11-06-2003, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by reconmike
I would be willing to bet if she was your sister/wife/family member then it would be extremely important.
Hero status even.

I can honestly say that it would probably piss me off more if I was related to her.

She signed up, she got sent to do a job, this is a job hazard,deal with it.

She went through a terrible ordeal, but no more than some others over there have gone through without the publicity.

Ustwo · 11-06-2003, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eple
I'm still calling bullshit on this one. Smells Waaaay to much of cheap propaganda.

If we were going to stage something, don't you think we would have put a few bottles of anthrax someplace to be 'found'?

mb99usa · 11-06-2003, 01:40 PM

We didn't need to plant anything. We were already at war, that little thing about WMDs was old news by then.

smooth · 11-06-2003, 04:14 PM

I can't post the URL for this because I got it through my uni's library but the article is from the LA Times Nov. 2 edition:

Quote:

Los Angeles Times

November 2, 2003

Another Ambush Hero Enjoys Smaller Spotlight

Author: Eric Slater; Times Staff Writer
National Desk

Edition: Home Edition
Section: Main News
Page: A-1
Dateline: FT. CARSON, Colo.

Index Terms:
UNITED STATES
IRAQ WAR 2003
ARMED FORCES
PRISONERS OF WAR
Infographic

Estimated printed pages: 8

Article Text:

As former POW Jessica Lynch and her agents prepare for the release this month of her $1-million memoir, the airing of her first television interview and a TV movie about the attack on the Army's 507th Maintenance Company, another soldier considered by many to be the 507th's greatest hero is enjoying more modest rewards.

Reduced-priced license plates, just $3, for receiving the Purple Heart and the Prisoner of War medal. A Kansas City Royals game ball. "And I get to go on free trips -- that's the best part," Pfc. Patrick Miller, 23, said recently, a typically colossal wad of chewing tobacco in his cheek.

To Topeka for a parade, to Las Vegas for the Academy of Country Music Awards, to Florida soon, he hopes, and Alaska.

At sunrise on the morning of March 23, the vehicles and soldiers of the 507th were being torn apart in perhaps the most infamous ambush of the Iraq war.

Miller, a lanky, bespectacled welder whose marksmanship skills had been mediocre before the battle -- his bravery, like that of the others, untested -- set out alone to wreak havoc and terror on a contingent of Iraqis who were trying to lob mortars on several of the soldiers from a mere 50 yards away.

After he and four others were taken prisoner together, Miller convinced the Iraqis that the numbers on a scrap of paper they found in his helmet -- the unit's secret radio frequencies -- were just prices for power-steering pumps; the Iraqis tossed the scrap into a fire. And for three weeks he set about irking their captors with tone-deaf renditions of country singer Toby Keith's anti-terrorist anthem "Courtesy of the Red, White and Blue."

The Army investigated the ambush and determined Miller "may have killed as many as nine Iraqi combatants."

With a seemingly inherent aversion to speculation or bragging, the small-town Kansan has no doubt about what he did or did not do, how many he killed or wounded: "Seven in the mortar pit, one in the tree line, and I ran over one guy."

If it wasn't for his actions during the ambush, which earned Miller one of the military's highest awards, the Silver Star, several soldiers feel certain they would not have survived.

"We were all down, most of us wounded, and I looked up and saw Miller running by, bullets and rockets everywhere," recalled former POW Spc. Shoshana Johnson, 30. "I said, 'Miller, get down!' He said, 'I gotta go, I gotta return fire' ... We were a big target, and if they'd have got off a mortar round we'd have all been dead. I tell you, Miller, ol' country boy, saved us."

As Lynch, whose rescue from an Iraqi hospital became one of the most dramatic stories of the war, readies for her media blitz, most of her fellow soldiers caught in the ambush have returned to their jobs: cooking, supplying radar parts and toilet paper, fixing broken axles.

They are back making $25,000 or $29,000 a year, some appearing at the occasional parade or other event, and struggling -- hard, in some cases -- with badly damaged body parts, memories of imprisonment, and of seeing their friends, as one put it, "shot so badly they were in pieces."

Eleven soldiers died in the battle, six were captured and nine were wounded, including some of those captured and some who were rescued or escaped.

Few from the 507th seem to resent the diminutive Lynch's fame and fortune. Separated from the other POWs and badly injured when her Humvee crashed, "Jessica is a hero in every way. Tiny little thing, she survived all that by herself. It's amazing," Johnson said, summing up the sentiments of many from the unit.

At the same time, some are less than pleased with the way the Pentagon and media have handled Lynch's story. Both got much of it wrong in the beginning, erroneously reporting that she fought to her last bullet despite gunshot and stab wounds, when in fact she was likely unconscious and probably did not fire a shot, investigators say.

"It wasn't accurate but it was a good story, and people high, high in the Pentagon got involved," said one 507th soldier, who asked not to be identified.

Not the Only Hero

When she was rescued, Lynch's fame grew. And the military and the media, some members of the 507th say, have focused so much on her that they have failed to tell the stories of others who fought, died, were wounded or captured in the same battle.

"When they rescued Jessica, that gave everyone a lot of hope because people still didn't know where we were, if we were still alive," said Johnson, a friend of Lynch's. "[The military and media] put a lot into that story, and there wasn't too much left once we were rescued. I don't blame anyone though.

"You want to know what the greatest injustice is?" Johnson continued. "Miller hasn't even been promoted."

After nearly three days and nights on the road, the 18 vehicles and 31 soldiers of the 507th -- plus two soldiers from another unit -- passed through a dark and quiet Nasiriyah about 5 a.m. The convoy took a now well-known wrong turn. Then another. Nearly two hours passed as the convoy felt about in the dark. Meanwhile, Iraqi irregular and Fedayeen Saddam fighters gathered to launch an ambush, according to Army investigators and members of the 507th.

"The first time we moved through, no one was manning the fighting positions; no one was out," said Sgt. Curtis Campbell, who lost a fist-sized chunk of his left hamstring to an Iraqi round before being rescued by Marines. "By the time the sun was coming up, the whole town, it seemed, was out -- and suddenly the fighting positions were all manned."

About 7 a.m., as many as 200 Iraqis began firing on the 33 Americans with AK-47s, heavy machine guns and rocket-propelled grenades. The 507th had a single heavy machine gun, a .50-caliber, which failed immediately.

The convoy broke into three groups, according to the Army investigative report. The first fought its way through the ambush and sped toward nearby Marine Task Force Tarawa, which organized a rescue mission.

In the second group, all five vehicles were quickly riddled with bullet holes and torn apart by rockets, and five of the 10 soldiers were wounded. With desert conditions causing weapons to malfunction -- a problem that hounded many of the soldiers of the 507th -- they were able to return only occasional bursts of fire. They would eventually be rescued by the Marines.

At the end of the convoy, the third group was also being devastated by the attackers. Within minutes, several soldiers were dead, with more to die shortly. Lynch was injured -- fellow soldiers thought she was dead -- after the Humvee she was riding in was hit by an explosive and crashed into the back of another vehicle.

Makings of a Myth

The mythical story of Lynch may have begun around the time her Humvee crashed.

After the ambush, the U.S. military intercepted a radio transmission describing a blond American woman who ferociously battled her attackers despite suffering gunshot and stab wounds. This was presumed to be Lynch, who was then missing, and the information was passed on to the media.

The soldier described in the intercept may, in fact, have been a slim, blond male sergeant from Salem, Ore., 33-year-old Donald Walters, though no one knows for sure. His body -- with several bullet and stab wounds -- was later found near the battle site in a shallow grave. The Army has not determined the precise circumstances of his death, but investigators wrote: "There is some information to suggest that a U.S. soldier that could have been Walters fought his way south of Highway 16 toward a canal and was killed in action."

Miller was driving a military tow truck when the ambush began, with Sgt. James Riley, 31, in the passenger's seat. The two stopped to pick up Walters and Pvt. Brandon Sloan, whose truck had become stuck in the sand. Under heavy fire, Sloan climbed aboard. Walters disappeared. Miller stomped on the throttle.

Moments later, the truck, riddled with bullet holes, began to slow, and the three were preparing to jump out when Sloan was killed by a shot to the forehead. Miller and Riley took off running toward the vehicles of Lynch, Johnson and others. Riley dove behind a truck and took command of several soldiers, most of them wounded. Miller kept running.

The reason, he said, was that he saw an Iraqi dump truck on the other side of the highway. He figured he could get the truck running and spirit them away.

As he neared, Miller dropped to his belly and crept up a sand berm. Peeking over the top, he saw the mortar pit right beside the dump truck. And he began his lone effort to pin down the Iraqi mortar men.

As an Iraqi went to drop a round into the mortar tube, Miller fired and the man fell, he said. Miller's M-16, however, jammed, and for the next hour, he would pop up, fire one round, and then drop back behind the berm to manually reload another.

"They didn't realize where the fire was coming from," Miller said. "They just saw their guys fall every time they'd try to set up the mortar."

After nearly an hour of pinning down the men around the mortar, according to investigators, Miller decided it was time check his back. He swept around, he said, and fired on an Iraqi approaching along a tree line. "That was the last guy I shot," he said.

When he turned back around, Miller said, numerous Iraqi fighters were closing on him. He threw his rifle as far as he could and raised his hands in the air. "I said, 'OK, you win.' I kind of figured they'd shoot me right there, though."

About the same time, Riley, commanding the soldiers that the Iraqis had been trying to kill with the mortar, decided it was time to give up. None of their weapons were working and most of the soldiers were wounded. He, too, raised his arms and stepped into the open.

The Iraqis quickly took the Americans prisoner.

Miller began irritating his captors immediately. After asking about the scrap of paper, the Iraqis wanted to know about his can of Skoal tobacco.

"I told 'em my chew was candy. Two or three of them opened it up and started eating. Idiots," he said with a roll of his eyes. "They saw their breakfasts again."

Over the next three weeks, the Iraqis moved the five POWs to seven different locations. In each cell he was kept, Miller carved the name of his wife, Jessa, and two children, Tyler, 4, and Makenzie, 15 months. He got sick, prayed a bit, and belted out lyrics from "Courtesy of the Red, White and Blue."

"This big dog will fight/When you rattle his cage/And you'll be sorry that you messed/With the U.S. of A."

"I did that just to make 'em mad," Miller said with a hint of a smile. "They'd tell me to sit down and shut up. I would, for a while."

Possible War Crimes

Investigations continue into possible war crimes by the Iraqi captors. In interviews, the POWs and other members of the 507th were careful in describing the actions of the Iraqis. They said enough, however, to suggest that the investigators have plenty to look at.

When Iraqis captured wounded Spc. Joseph Hudson, 23, another member of the company said, "They beat him up right there."

In captivity, Johnson said, "From what I could hear -- I couldn't see -- Miller got it the worst. He was always mouthing off. And they knew he'd killed a lot of Iraqis."

On their 11th day of captivity, the Iraqis took Miller's wedding ring. He went wild with anger.

"They'd tell him to shut up and he'd say, 'No! I want my wedding ring back! I want my wedding ring back!' " Johnson said. "I finally said, 'Miller, if you get your butt kicked over that wedding ring, your wife's going to kick your butt again.' "

Early on an April morning, in a house the POWs would later learn was just outside Saddam Hussein's hometown of Tikrit, a door flew open and a voice in English commanded everyone to get down. Marines swarmed the room. "If you're an American," one Marine shouted, "stand up."

The POWs were headed home.

Johnson is seeking a disability discharge after being shot in both legs. Spc. Edgar Hernandez, 21, who was hit in the face with shrapnel and shot in the arm, is getting married this week. Riley is back at work, now at Aberdeen Proving Grounds in Maryland. Hudson, who suffered several wounds in the fighting, is also back at work, at the home of the 507th, Ft. Bliss, Texas.

Miller was transferred over the summer to this post near Pike's Peak. He moved his family into a small home on the base.

On the living room wall above his Kelly-green Barcalounger, he hung his Silver Star, POW medal and Purple Heart -- which he diminishes, saying he wasn't badly injured. "They say part of it is for emotional injuries. Whatever."

At the center of the collection of awards is a poster

memorializing the 507th. The eye is drawn to the unit's red flag and a group picture of the soldiers in their desert fatigues. It takes a moment to notice the ethereal, delicate images of the dead, hovering above the company.

Miller spends his off time these days playing with his kids, sitting in his big green chair. He hates the Army's early hours, but doesn't drink coffee to help him awake, preferring caffeine-free soda. He thinks about heading an Army motor pool. He fiddles occasionally with the wedding band the Army replaced for him.

Miller doesn't talk much about what happened, what it felt like to raise his hands in surrender and expect to be shot, about how he was treated by his captors, about killing people and watching his friends be killed. His wife has a hard time hearing the stories, and he has a hard time telling them anyway.

"It doesn't bother me if I don't think about it," Miller said. "So I don't think about it much."

I don't know who might make the anal thing up but I don't understand why people are attributing the truthfulness of the story to Lynch. According to the article, she doesn't remember it happening so how could the story have originated with her?

Macheath · 11-06-2003, 04:54 PM

I wonder if the Pentagon would ever allow us to know of the anal rape if Lynch had been a stony and towering GI Joe rather than a compassionate and beatific young GI Jane?

Of course while the women are raped, the men are always "tortured". And the movies teach us that torture always involves something like being strapped to a chair and electrocuted.

It's not like it doesn't happen in war, but would the book be a bestseller like I'm sure this one will be? Doesn't really sound like very good propaganda anymore.

Sparhawk · 11-06-2003, 05:13 PM

Thanks for the great read, smooth.

lordjeebus · 11-06-2003, 09:37 PM

Regardless of the truth of the rape claim, I find this really depressing.

If its true, I'm sad because all the PR overdramatization has led many people to disregard the real suffering on Lynch's part behind the scenes.

If its false, the claim is an insult to anyone who has actually been raped.

XenuHubbard · 11-06-2003, 10:19 PM

So a woman, paid to kill other people, ends up in a car-crash, and gets kidnapped by the people she's paid to kill, and they possibly rape her, during a war.

True or not, I don't care. It just isn't important.
If she was a civilian, I would feel more sorry for her.

To me, this falls under the oft-cited "In-War-Things-Happen"-category.

She was photogenic, so she became a hero. Because her car crashed.

*sigh*

losthellhound · 11-07-2003, 01:11 AM

I have read alot about the book, and the claims of rape (Im not saying that they are claims of rape because I dont beleive them, but because I dont have all the facts, and like a court case, until we do have all the proof, its a claim.. sorry if you dont like my wording)

There are alot of flame wars about this all over the web.. And I'm pretty sick of one thing. Not the claims, not the attention.. But the fact that the author is making alot of money over the pain of Lynch, the pain of her unit, the force in general, and an entire population who is suddenly realizing they're stuck in a war that isnt going to go away. Are they going to write a book about the other 387 U.S. troops that have died? Is every penny being fed right back into Vetren's associations?

I doubt it.

Liquor Dealer · 11-07-2003, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by XenuHubbard
So a woman, paid to kill other people, ends up in a car-crash, and gets kidnapped by the people she's paid to kill, and they possibly rape her, during a war.

True or not, I don't care. It just isn't important.
If she was a civilian, I would feel more sorry for her.

To me, this falls under the oft-cited "In-War-Things-Happen"-category.

She was photogenic, so she became a hero. Because her car crashed.

*sigh*

Your display of compassion and humanity is simply overwhelming!

Did you even read this before you posted?

11-06-2003, 09:54 AM	#2 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	So you are saying it didn't happen? Are you saying its a private matter between Lynch and her Iraqi captors? Are you afraid that this information will sway public opinion in a way you don't want it to go? __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

11-06-2003, 10:06 AM	#3 (permalink)
mml Adrift Location: Wandering in the Desert of Life	I've got to agree with Ustwo, what are you getting at J.P.? And I think the T.V. movie (sans the anal rape) will air this Sunday night. __________________ Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." -Douglas Adams

11-06-2003, 10:18 AM	#4 (permalink)
mb99usa Keep on rolling. It only hurts for a little while. Location: wherever I am	I've heard 2 different stories about what happened to her.I have nothing to back this up other than a few news reports I heard regarding this. Take it as you will. Just something to keep in mind. This is not to detract from what she went through but just to question how much of what we are being told is truth. The first is the military story - the one everybody is familiar with. The second is somewhat different - The vehicle crash was driver error. She was the only to survive the crash and was rescued by the Iraqi's and medically treated in the hospital she was taken too. The Iraqi's then tried to deliver her to a passing US patrol which mistook the approaching ambulances as hostile and fired on them. The Iraqi's fled and returned to the hospital still with Lynch. The patrol alerted military leaders about what they had experienced and it was rightly determined that is where Lynch was being held. Here is where it gets a little political. Sentiment for the war was starting to wane a little and something was needed to returnfavor to the war. What better way than a dramatic rescue. The story goes that the Iraqi's saw the approaching Special Forces detachment and fled the hospital. The SF raided an empty hospital all while video taping it for the evening news. They got there "rescue" and changed the tone of the war. Her "amnesia" related to the incident. Prompted by free medical coverage and an immediate honorable discharge. __________________ So, what's your point? It's not an attitude, it's a way of life.

11-06-2003, 11:02 AM	#5 (permalink)
Conclamo Ludus Modern Man Location: West Michigan	This Jessica Lynch thing has been blown out of proportion, but I doubt the second story by mb99usa has much truth to it. The truth may be somewhere inbetween but the second story sounds like a cynical conspiracy theorists idea of how it happened. The only thing that is left out is the US marines anally raping her so that they could have some proof of the scars. I've heard some twisted versions of this, but this one seems a little too much. Are there any sources for it at all? __________________ Lord, have mercy on my wicked soul I wouldn't mistreat you baby, for my weight in gold. -Son House, Death Letter Blues

11-06-2003, 11:11 AM	#6 (permalink)
mb99usa Keep on rolling. It only hurts for a little while. Location: wherever I am	No I don't have any sources. I work near DC and remember hearing something like this on one of the morning shows way back when she was first brought home. Like I stated in my original post it could be complete bullshit. I refuse to swallow the military's story as fact. I agree that the truth is somewhere in between but there is no denying the timing of when the "rescue" occurred and how easy it went for the Spec. Ops guys. __________________ So, what's your point? It's not an attitude, it's a way of life.

11-06-2003, 11:15 AM	#8 (permalink)
eple Banned Location: norway	post removed by Lebell Last edited by Lebell; 11-06-2003 at 01:15 PM..

11-06-2003, 11:18 AM	#9 (permalink)
mb99usa Keep on rolling. It only hurts for a little while. Location: wherever I am	Thanks redlemon. I knew I had heard the story just not sure where it was from. __________________ So, what's your point? It's not an attitude, it's a way of life.

11-06-2003, 11:20 AM	#10 (permalink)
Liquor Dealer Super Agitator Location: Just SW of Nowhere!!! In the good old US of A	I think, that unless it is proved otherwise - or you want to go back in time and take her place, then her story is what it is. Do you honestly think they just threw in the sex to play with ratings. In a nation that used rape in many forms as both torture and punishment I think it might even be illogical to assume she wasn't raped. __________________ Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

11-06-2003, 11:22 AM	#11 (permalink)
eple Banned Location: norway	Oh my, it's working too... heheh, anally raped...crazy Americans

11-06-2003, 11:28 AM	#13 (permalink)
eple Banned Location: norway

11-06-2003, 11:32 AM	#15 (permalink)
reconmike Thank You Jesus Location: Twilight Zone	First of all, I dont see how she is being exploited. I am with LD on this one, if she says she was and it was verified by a medical exam where is the problem? Next it will be that she wasnt even there and it was all staged on a movie set in hollyweird. I really hope that in GW1 I greased some of their parents. __________________ Where is Darwin when ya need him?

11-06-2003, 12:01 PM	#16 (permalink)
f00sion Tilted Location: So. Cali	I think its amazing how fast they have been able to publish a book and make a movie. ..hasn't it been only 3 or 4 months? __________________ Tell me what we’re fighting for— I don’t remember anymore, only temporary reprieve. And the world might cease if we fail to tame the beast; from the faith that you release comes an atheist peace.

11-06-2003, 12:38 PM	#18 (permalink)
mb99usa Keep on rolling. It only hurts for a little while. Location: wherever I am	How do we know she was anally raped? Because the medical records indicate it? Whichever story you believe she was in a vehicle that was severly damaged. She could have received a blow to the rectum during whatever occurred. __________________ So, what's your point? It's not an attitude, it's a way of life.

11-06-2003, 12:44 PM	#19 (permalink)
eple Banned Location: norway	I'm still calling bullshit on this one. Smells Waaaay to much of cheap propaganda.

11-06-2003, 12:53 PM	#20 (permalink)
danielboy Tilted	Who here would watch the movie or buy the book? I hear that some other soldiers were also captured, but they got no book deal or movie deal. Why did people focus on this one girl?

11-06-2003, 12:56 PM	#21 (permalink)
Liquor Dealer Super Agitator Location: Just SW of Nowhere!!! In the good old US of A	I don't think that the term "hero" fits at all - she was a victim and nothing more. She may have been heroic or not - it makes no difference - the only thing that matters is she was a POW and was rescued - that in itself makes her a special person - She quite obviously, even to the most skeptical, had a very rough time of it. __________________ Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!! Last edited by Liquor Dealer; 11-06-2003 at 01:01 PM..

11-06-2003, 12:59 PM	#22 (permalink)
mb99usa Keep on rolling. It only hurts for a little while. Location: wherever I am	Not gonna buy the book or watch the movie. I don't want to make this anymore important than it has already been manufactured to. __________________ So, what's your point? It's not an attitude, it's a way of life.

11-06-2003, 01:40 PM	#27 (permalink)
mb99usa Keep on rolling. It only hurts for a little while. Location: wherever I am	We didn't need to plant anything. We were already at war, that little thing about WMDs was old news by then. __________________ So, what's your point? It's not an attitude, it's a way of life.

11-06-2003, 04:54 PM	#29 (permalink)
Macheath Junkie Location: Sydney, Australia	I wonder if the Pentagon would ever allow us to know of the anal rape if Lynch had been a stony and towering GI Joe rather than a compassionate and beatific young GI Jane? Of course while the women are raped, the men are always "tortured". And the movies teach us that torture always involves something like being strapped to a chair and electrocuted. It's not like it doesn't happen in war, but would the book be a bestseller like I'm sure this one will be? Doesn't really sound like very good propaganda anymore.

11-06-2003, 05:13 PM	#30 (permalink)
Sparhawk Dubya Location: VA	Thanks for the great read, smooth. __________________ "In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

11-06-2003, 09:37 PM	#31 (permalink)
lordjeebus ‚±‚Ìˆó˜U‚ª–Ú‚É“ü‚ç‚Ê‚© Location: College	Regardless of the truth of the rape claim, I find this really depressing. If its true, I'm sad because all the PR overdramatization has led many people to disregard the real suffering on Lynch's part behind the scenes. If its false, the claim is an insult to anyone who has actually been raped.

11-06-2003, 10:19 PM	#32 (permalink)
XenuHubbard Cute and Cuddly Location: Teegeeack.	So a woman, paid to kill other people, ends up in a car-crash, and gets kidnapped by the people she's paid to kill, and they possibly rape her, during a war. True or not, I don't care. It just isn't important. If she was a civilian, I would feel more sorry for her. To me, this falls under the oft-cited "In-War-Things-Happen"-category. She was photogenic, so she became a hero. Because her car crashed. sigh __________________ The above was written by a true prophet. Trust me. "What doesn't kill you, makes you bitter and paranoid". - SB2000

11-07-2003, 01:11 AM	#33 (permalink)
losthellhound Thats MR. Muffin Face now Location: Everywhere work sends me	I have read alot about the book, and the claims of rape (Im not saying that they are claims of rape because I dont beleive them, but because I dont have all the facts, and like a court case, until we do have all the proof, its a claim.. sorry if you dont like my wording) There are alot of flame wars about this all over the web.. And I'm pretty sick of one thing. Not the claims, not the attention.. But the fact that the author is making alot of money over the pain of Lynch, the pain of her unit, the force in general, and an entire population who is suddenly realizing they're stuck in a war that isnt going to go away. Are they going to write a book about the other 387 U.S. troops that have died? Is every penny being fed right back into Vetren's associations? I doubt it. __________________ "Life is possible only with illusions. And so, the question for the science of mental health must become an absolutely new and revolutionary one, yet one that reflects the essence of the human condition: On what level of illusion does one live?" -- Ernest Becker, The Denial of Death