filtherton

You norwegenoncidomaniacoliac!!!!

eple

Well you may call me crazy, but I think there is a difference between defending yourself and, in your own terms, "wiping them out". I see that you have a very limited understading of the situation in the middle east. I recommend you read a few more newspapers and try to get a better grip on the situation. I don't calim to have a superb grasp on the situation myself, but I think it should be easy for any informed individual to discover more sides to the conflicts than "They hate us because they hate freedom and American lifestyle". It is a far too simplistic and flawed summarization of a very complicated situation.

Food Eater Lad

I dont want to understand them, I want them to stop trying and ploting to kill me and my country men. I dont want to understand the criminal trying to mug me, i want him to stop mugging me. If you plan, or try to attack me, I will wipe you out. And any sane person should do the same.
And just so you know, Bin Laden wants us dead because we stationed troops in Saudi Arabia. How dare we defend a muslim nation from the very vocal threats of Saddam Huessien. He wants us dead cause we are the vanguard in democracy, that underminds his theocratic worldview. He wants us dead because he is smart enough to know that most people will prefer to live in a world where they can choose their destiney rather than have it choosen for them. He needs us dead so that he can continue to keep people in the dark as too their options in life.

eple

Weird, as your arguements start to lose sense, your English skills decreases by the same level.
Edit: thank you for editing, it makes more sense grammatically now.
I think understanding your "enemy" might be key in any situation. You need to understand their motives, unless you really want to "wipe them out", I hardly think that will be possible. Your arguementation pose a great example of the blind rage and less-than-thought-out strategies that have characterized American foreign policies during the "war on terror".

Food Eater Lad

Like I said, they are free to hate. Thats fine, thats their right, but when they take up arms against me or my country men, then as Maximus said, "Unleash Hell".

Food Eater Lad

Do you actually think stopping to understand Bin Laden will actually get the same results as say, a bullet? Do you know what a fanatic means? It means suspending reason, strapping bombs to your body, or flying an airplane full of innocents into a building full of innocents.

I would like to see you try to understand a person with a bomb tied to his belly as he pulls the string in downtown Oslow. Its easy to say, when you are not the target, or have lost friends.

Did understanding stop the nazis? The communists? The imperial Japanese? Or guns?

Zeld2.0

Hey i have no problem taking out fanatics but wanting to kill all of them is only proving their point that you are the terrorist.

The worst thing IMO you can do is turn yourself into 'one of them' - then whose the better one now? Why not wipe out all Americans because there are a few who bomb others?

Either way this is pointless to argue because if a perception and viewpoint is someone elses, he's not going to be convinced unless its by himself.

Tman144

If you just kill every terrorist you see, you'll only create more terrorists who are more pissed off. You have to stop the source and not just the man who is in charge at the moment.

__________________
"Don't touch my belt, you Jesus freak!" -Mr. Gruff the Atheist Goat

Food Eater Lad

No, killing the ones that are arming and planing to kill us. Those are the enemy. And at the same time, taking the fuel out of their fire by making Afganistan and IRaq successful, free, and good places to live. No one will want to take arms against America when they are working a good job, eating good food and watching some decent playboy channel. A well satisfied person doest not commit atrocities. We have to show the fanatics that the real reason their lives are shit, is their leaders. The ones that dont teach real information is the Madrasas, only chanting and misinformation. The same leaders that are halting progress, stealing money and forcing their populations to live in squalor while they have billions in bank accounts.
So ending this is two fold, war against the ones that wish to fight, till they realise that fighting is usless ( and that isnt going to happen when they hear the liberals badmouthing the conservatives that wish to take the fight to terrorists homes, Liberal talk is only showing Al Queda that Americans dont have the resolve to keep up the fight, and so it encourages them) and when the people see, in their livetimes and neighborhood that AMerica has improved their lot in life.
I am sure there were a lot of pissed of Japanese after ww2, but how many still hate America now? We waged a solid war there, pulled no punches, and then rebuilt the nation into a stable, safe place to live. A comfortable life puts out a lot of rage.

This to me is my biggest problem with the Bush administration. I feel they abandoned Afganistan instead of making that place a decent home to raise a family. Had that happened, when Al Queda came to recruit, they would be hard pressed to find a guy willing to strap on a bomb.

And with talk of pulling out of Iraq, will only bite us in the ass harder and longer in the long run. This is why i think that all the European nations that balked at helping or offering funds are scummy. They are letting their petty jealousy of the US pepper their long range vision. They say they want a peaceful world, then chip in and make it so. Jealously, and divisive talk wont make the world better, a peaceful world takes work. If you want it, do something for it.

Ustwo

This whole thread is silly since if Clark wins the nomination, all it shows is the democrats have lost their soul.

The guy has always had major ambition over substance, and wanted to be a Republican player, the Republicans say no (thank god), so now suddenly he isn't a Republican after all but a Democrat! And all that good stuff about the Republicans he said? Well he had a change of heart, yea thats it, he meant Afghanistan, not Iraq, yea that’s the ticket!

From what I also gather, he wanted to fire on Russian troops in Bosnia, when the Russian's decided they wanted to flex their muscle and take an airport we didn't want them to have. It was this little 'oops' that helped usher him out. I don't know if this is true, but based on some of his fellow generals reaction to the idea of Clark being president I wouldn't be surprised.

I could understand why he would appeal to some democrats, since he isn't a leftist, and has a military backround, but I don't think thats enough to get him the nomination which tends to be more party line.

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Mojo_PeiPei

On Clinton's nuts + Army General= Next best person to Dean.

Gogo Kerry in 04'!

__________________
To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

Ustwo

After doing a little research, despite conflicting reports, I don't think Clark ordred anyone to attack the Russians and I think the British commander may have over reacted to Clark. He still has his skeletons, but at least I wouldn't put starting WWIII as one of them

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

filtherton

I think the democratic and republican parties lost their souls a long time ago.

Tman144

If they had souls to begin with.

__________________
"Don't touch my belt, you Jesus freak!" -Mr. Gruff the Atheist Goat

Aesik

Wesley Clark = Ostrich

Mephisto2

I doubt they would attempt to kill me or attack my country.

How does AmeriCapaColonialists sound?

Sounds rather stupid, doesn't it? I rest my case.

You have a valid beef with terrorists and especially al-Queda. But don't try to justify the war on Iraq with the (so-called) war on terrorism, or paint all muslims with that brush. From your other posts you seem too intelligent to fall for that spin.

Mr Mephisto

Peetster

Every American's sentiment prior to 9/11.

I have no doubt that if we were not engaging terrorists there, we would still be dealing with them here. Instead of hearing about a car bomb hitting a security outpost in Iraq, it would be a car bomb hitting an office complex in LA, or Detroit, or Atlanta.

Food Eater Lad

So terrorists didnt kill any Austrians in say, a huge bombing?

eple

americafascist.

skinbag

We aren't wiping them out, we are running around like fools making enemies! (Which was OBL's plan..)

Mojo_PeiPei

We aren't making any new enemies...

__________________
To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

eple

Well if you say so.

Conclamo Ludus

Wesleyclarkorepublicratliberofascist2004notachance-o

__________________
Lord, have mercy on my wicked soul
I wouldn't mistreat you baby, for my weight in gold.
-Son House, Death Letter Blues

Mephisto2

Austrians?

What on Earth are you talking about?

If you mean Australians, then I fully accept this country is a target due to its rash engagement in the Iraq war.

But I'm Irish. I seriously doubt Ireland is a high-profile, top priority target for Islamic terrorists. What with us being neutral and all...

Mr Mephisto

Mojo_PeiPei

Mr. Mephisto do you remember Bali? 100 Australian tourists died. That was almost a year before the war in Iraq (If memory serves).

__________________
To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

debaser

Don't forget that Christofacists have perpetrated more attacks on the US (domesticaly) than any other group.

__________________

Mephisto2

Did you actually read my post?

Let me spell it out for you.

I _ A-M _ N-O-T _ A-U-S-T-R-A-L-I-A-N

Sheesh...

Also, I said in my post that Australia is a target. What is it with you people?!


Mr Mephisto

eple

Calm down, I think he was just making assumptions from the "location" part of your avatar...

Mojo_PeiPei

I wasn't making any assumptions I was pointing out that not only are Australians a target, they had an attack perpetrated against them.

__________________
To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

Sparhawk

<img src="http://www.xenus.com/postcard/graphics/chatty/stpatrick03.gif">

__________________
"In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

Mephisto2

ROFL

hiredgun

That is incredibly ignorant. Anti-American terrorism by radical Islamic groups has nothing to do with our constitution or our freedom of religion. It has everything to do with perceived enmity due to our alliance with Israel, and our support of monarchical regimes in the middle east.

Before you flame me, I'm absolutely neither agreeing with their reasons nor endorsing their means. But I can't believe that people go around thinking that "convert or die" has anything at all to do with it. Religion itself is irrelevant, the battle is over politics; the only significance of religion is that it allows terrorist leaders to easily recruit followers with the promise of paradise.

Mojo_PeiPei

Pretty solid summary hiredgun, but you neglect the Wahabism. Its the radical branch of Islam that is state endorsed by Saudi Arabia, it was the movement that gave birth to OBL. Their message is basically convert or die, even to other muslims.

__________________
To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

tricks

So, if we convert to Islam,eat our Big Mac's and make our Hollywood movies, we're OK??? Sort of simplistic, isn't it?

__________________
People Are Stupid. People can be made to believe any lie, either
because they want it to be true or because they fear that it is.

XenuHubbard

Besides, the Bali bombing had more to do with Australia interfering in East Timor than anything else.

And I still don't see what all this has to do with Wesley Clark's quote. To compare religious fanatics in the Middle East with the percieved threat from Communism during the fifties and sixties, still doesn't tell me anything about Wesley Clark.

__________________
The above was written by a true prophet. Trust me.

"What doesn't kill you, makes you bitter and paranoid". - SB2000

hiredgun

Even Osama Bin Laden doesn't care about converting us. His goals are political as well. He talks about it in his "letter to America".

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world...845725,00.html

Conclamo Ludus

From the link:





Did you miss this part of the letter? Obviously it isn't the only thing he cares about. But that is part of it.

__________________
Lord, have mercy on my wicked soul
I wouldn't mistreat you baby, for my weight in gold.
-Son House, Death Letter Blues

ObieX

The problem isn't that its just Islamic fanatics, or just America's interferance in the area, its both and more. It's not any one thing.. or two things.. its a whole mess of different problems for each little front or group. They all have their own cause that they feel is worth killing for. Be it supporting a leader like saddam.. or forcing their religion upon you.. or just simply getting pissed off that you get to see their women's ankles. They think that gives them the right to kill you, your family, your neighbor.. blow up that school down the street.

America is slowly wiping out the way of life in that area (be that a "good thing" or a "bad thing"). Our culture is starting to sweep through that area... politics.. religions.. clothing etc. That is a major problem as well for a lot of people.

Helping out any political regime will also have any opposing political group pissed off. Its like that everywhere - it's just common sense. The problem is that the whole area is just so pissed off that you can't really help ANYONE there without 10 other groups of people that now want to kill you.

Bombing the area every 5 years or so doesn't help the matter either.

__________________
We Must Dissent.

Food Eater Lad

Sitting and let them kill us doesnt help us either, it only helps them.

ObieX

You never know.. it may help us.

__________________
We Must Dissent.