slave reperations

[Mael]

Slave reperations... do you think that the decendents of slaves deserve reperations for their ancestors slavery?

also, not for the poll, but for the thread, do you think it will make anything better or worse?




i'm against reperations, and i don't think that they would make things better. possibly even worsen "race" relations.

[archer2371]

I agree, reparations don't solve anything and probably would worsen the race relations.

[The_Dude]

i dont think somebody should be held to something that their ancestors did.

if so, then a lot of people would have to pay a lot of people $.

[Ustwo]

Confederacy
KIA 94.000
Disease etc 164.000
Total 258.000

Union
KIA 110.070
Disease etc 250.152
Total 360.222

I've always felt that those were reperations enough.

[Tman144]

If we give slave reperations then I want money from the royal family of England for oppressing my ansectors for hundreds of years. *insert Monty Python reference here* "Help! Help! I'm being oppressed!"

[Peryn]

Affirmative Action.

I think we all know how well reparations works out in the end.....


Also, why not take a request for reparations to Africa...after all, a huge amount of the slaves were able to get over here only with help from the African slave traders. Africans often caught and delievered them to the white man... why not ask them for reparations? because they dont have money... All reparations are about is greed....not equality...

[absorbentishe]

I hate to say this, but... If it's so bad here (in the US), then feel free to move back to where ever your ancestors come from. If you think you are missing something, you're more than welcome to go and find it. Reperations will only hurt our country worse than the civil war did.

If it is so bad here, why do so many more people want to come here for relief, and a new way of life. Yes, slaves were brought here against their wills, but there were people in those countries catching them, and selling them to the highest bidder, all of our ancestors are to blame, not just the white mans.

[Food Eater Lad]

And 80% of Americans today are descendants of immigrants that came AFTER slavery was abolised. Do they have to pay?

What about mullattos? Do they pay themselves?

Do the irish get reperations, after all 50% of the population of Ireland was brought to America as slaves ( a historical fact no one seems to talk about, WHITE SLAVES they existed) or is reparations only for blacks?


I think everyone got reparations. After all whites and blacks now live in a nation that was made prosperous in the early years by slave labour. Black America if seperated from All America is the 7th richest nation in the world, and does better than ALL of Africa. Everyone living in America enjoys the fruits of slavery, wether they want to admit it or not. Reparations are just an example of greedy i want something for free mentality.

[Jasmar]

Sure they can have reperations, a ticket back to africa. slave reperations now are a stupid idea and will do a horrible amount of damage.

[Food Eater Lad]

Whoa harsh.

[The_Dude]

hold up people.....if somebody demands a change in america, i've heard people say "if u dont like it, then get out".

wtf?

if you dont like something, try and CHANGE it.

[absorbentishe]

Okay, maybe my statement is a little harsh, but asking for something that is owed to you for things that dead people did to dead people (at least how many generations ago now?) is not right either. My ancestors came to America well after the Civil War, so should I be held accountable for slavery? If this were to happen, then the any culture can go back to a time when they were repressed, and expect money from the oppressing peoples, that are very long gone.

[The_Dude]

Originally posted by absorbentishe
Okay, maybe my statement is a little harsh, but asking for something that is owed to you for things that dead people did to dead people (at least how many generations ago now?) is not right either. My ancestors came to America well after the Civil War, so should I be held accountable for slavery? If this were to happen, then the any culture can go back to a time when they were repressed, and expect money from the oppressing peoples, that are very long gone.

i agree w/ u 100%.

they're just asking for reperations. i'm sure that there are lots and lots of groups out there that thinks that the govt owes them $$ (should they all move out?). And i dont think this is common with all african-americans. only the attention crazed ones like jesse jackson/al sharpton say this rhetoric. i've asked me black friends (close ones) if they want reperations and they have all said no.

[Sun Tzu]

Are they happening? Or seriously being discussed in Washington?

[Bill O'Rights]

If so...then I want reparations from the Catholic Church for beheading two of my ancestors, and driving the rest from Switzerland, in the 16th century. Come to think of it, I want reparations from Switzerland, as well.

[onetime2]

Originally posted by Bill O'Rights
If so...then I want reparations from the Catholic Church for beheading two of my ancestors, and driving the rest from Switzerland, in the 16th century. Come to think of it, I want reparations from Switzerland, as well.

Ahh, you didn't really like those ancestors anyway. Aren't they the same ones that always ate all the stuffing at family dinners?

[irseg]

If I'm going to pay for slavery, I expect some slaves in return.

[captain]

Reparations will do nothing to improve race relations.

Besides how would we devide the spoils? Where do we stop? Do the 2500 descendents of Freed Slaves who became slaveowners get some of the money? Do the people who came here after slavery need to pay? How about the southern sharecroppers who did not own slaves.

Way to many questions without answers.

[OFKU0]

Originally posted by captain
Reparations will do nothing to improve race relations.

Besides how would we devide the spoils? Where do we stop? Do the 2500 descendents of Freed Slaves who became slaveowners get some of the money? Do the people who came here after slavery need to pay? How about the southern sharecroppers who did not own slaves.

Way to many questions without answers.

Very interesting point. Speaking of reperations in general,does a time line exist for those who get and those who don't?

For instance,German companies as well as the German government paid out billions of dollars to Jewish holocaust survivors and their families for the atrocities commited against Jews.

Not so the case with between 1-2 million non-Jewish Poles who suffered the same fate in concentration camps. Apparently their claims were viewed as secondary and incidental.

In Canada during and after WWII Japanese citizens were put in camps for security reasons and immigration from China wasn't allowed. How about these folks?

In years down the road will screening people who may be thought of as suspicious because of race or religion regarding terrorism be seen as a civil rights issue? If so,what may they expect in terms of a settlement?

[Darkblack]

Originally posted by Tman144
If we give slave reperations then I want money from the royal family of England for oppressing my ansectors for hundreds of years. *insert Monty Python reference here* "Help! Help! I'm being oppressed!"

Well your government did not promise you money for this. Slaves were promised what was it, 20acres and a mule or something? They never got it and if they had then maybe they would have had a better start on a free society. I am not for or against them by the way. I am sorta in the middle.

Originally posted by Jasmar
Sure they can have reperations, a ticket back to africa. slave reperations now are a stupid idea and will do a horrible amount of damage.

Nice. I got a big F.U. for you bro.

Originally posted by irseg
If I'm going to pay for slavery, I expect some slaves in return.

one for you too.

[The_Dude]

Originally posted by Darkblack
Well your government did not promise you money for this. Slaves were promised what was it, 20acres and a mule or something? They never got it and if they had then maybe they would have had a better start on a free society. I am not for or against them by the way. I am sorta in the middle.

u sure that was slaves and not indentured servants?

[Moskie]

Did anyone see the skit on the Chapelle show about reparitions coming through for african americans?

Oh man, it was classic. Stocks for fast food fried chicken restaurants sky rocketed

[Darkblack]

On this day in 1865, in the midst of his 'March to the Sea' during the Civil War, General William T. Sherman and Secretary of War Edwin M. Stanton met with 20 Black community leaders of Savannah, Georgia. Based in part to their input, Gen. Sherman issued Special Field Order #15 on January 16, 1865, setting aside the Sea Islands and a 30 mile inland tract of land along the southern coast of Charleston for the exclusive settlement of Blacks. Each family would receive 40 acres of land and an army mule to work the land, thus "forty acres and a mule." Gen. Rufus Saxton was assigned by Sherman to implement the Order. On a national level, this and other land, confiscated and abandoned, became the jurisdiction of the Freedman's Bureau, which was headed by Gen. Oliver Otis Howard (Howard University).

In his words he wanted to "...give the freedmen protection, land and schools as far and as fast as he can." However, during the summer and fall of 1865, President Johnson issued special pardons, returning the property to the ex-Confederates. Howard issued Circular 13, giving 40 acres as quickly as possible. Upon his knowledge, Johnson ordered Howard to issue Circular 15, returning the land to the ex-Confederates.

[The_Dude]

isnt that for their part in the civil war?

[Darkblack]

Yes, this is what should be paid back. Some blacks are asking for a lot of money to compensate for cultural, educational, and agricultural losses but some think they should be paid what they were promised. Like I said I’m not really for this, I am more for better social programs to educate people and help them get on their feet.

[The_Dude]

I think that the bulk of the money demanded is for the labor that these slaves did in plantations.

[irseg]

Originally posted by Darkblack
Well your government did not promise you money for this. Slaves were promised what was it, 20acres and a mule or something? They never got it and if they had then maybe they would have had a better start on a free society. I am not for or against them by the way. I am sorta in the middle.

Okay, the people responsible for breaking this promise should pay back the freed slaves. It's going to involve a lot of grave digging equipment and some animatronics, but we just might be able to pull it off.

NONE OF THE PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS PARTICULAR INJUSTICE ARE CURRENTLY ALIVE. If you want to atone for the injustices a bunch of now-dead people committed against other now-dead people, just where do you draw the line?

[Ustwo]

Originally posted by Darkblack
Yes, this is what should be paid back. Some blacks are asking for a lot of money to compensate for cultural, educational, and agricultural losses but some think they should be paid what they were promised. Like I said I’m not really for this, I am more for better social programs to educate people and help them get on their feet.

Since all of my black friends in college were getting free rides, I'm not sure what else we can give.

Also remember, very few people make themselves better by giving them something for free. As a different example look at how messed up the kids of rich parents can be.

[mml]

The concept of paying Reparations out as cash settlements is riddiculous. There is no way to gauge what each person should be paid, and where are we going to get the money? Would blacks whose families came after slavery be exempt or included because they are part of a racial group and culture that has been descriminated against? Would we take the value of 40 acres and a mule from the late 1800's, add the inflationary value and give each person that amount? Or perhaps we should also include an addtional interest rate assuming their anscestors would have invested wisely. It would be an impossible and ineffiecient project.

I think that many who are pushing the Reparations Movement are doing so to reiterate the difficulties that face blacks and the ongoing limitations that society has placed upon them. The hope is that greater attention will be paid to the lack of good education, job triaining, healthcare etc... in the predominately minority inner cities.

I could be way off base here, but I can't imagine that intelligent, thoughtful individuals could see the possibility of Reparations being realistic or even a good thing for America as a whole.

[Darkblack]

Originally posted by Ustwo
Since all of my black friends in college were getting free rides, I'm not sure what else we can give.

Also remember, very few people make themselves better by giving them something for free. As a different example look at how messed up the kids of rich parents can be.

I don't think your black "friends" would appreciate you saying they are getting a free ride. I am sure they worked hard getting where they are. Are you paying for your education or are your parents?

[onetime2]

Originally posted by mml
I think that many who are pushing the Reparations Movement are doing so to reiterate the difficulties that face blacks and the ongoing limitations that society has placed upon them. The hope is that greater attention will be paid to the lack of good education, job triaining, healthcare etc... in the predominately minority inner cities.

I could be way off base here, but I can't imagine that intelligent, thoughtful individuals could see the possibility of Reparations being realistic or even a good thing for America as a whole.

Agree with most of your thoughts on this subject but definitely disagree on the last bits. The people pushing for this are doing so only to fuel their own political power. It's a loser of a cause because it will never happen, but by calling for it these "leaders" cement their political base behind them.

The other problem with reparations besides those already outlined, would be the precedent it sets for other groups. Not the least of which are the native americans who have a much better case and signed treaties/contracts outlining what they should have had control over.

[Darkblack]

The other problem with reparations besides those already outlined, would be the precedent it sets for other groups. Not the least of which are the native americans who have a much better case and signed treaties/contracts outlining what they should have had control over.

And why is this a problem? Maybe we should give back what we owe.

[onetime2]

Originally posted by Darkblack
And why is this a problem? Maybe we should give back what we owe.

And who exactly will determine what "we" owe? How much is owed to the Irish and Italian immigrants that toiled through the slums of New York? How much is owed to the Chinese laborers used to build the Railroads that allowed the country to expand west?

That's why it's a problem.

[Ustwo]

Originally posted by Darkblack
I don't think your black "friends" would appreciate you saying they are getting a free ride. I am sure they worked hard getting where they are. Are you paying for your education or are your parents?

They had all tuition and housing paid for, plus they needed lower scores to get in and lower scores to stay in school.

Though I feel sorry for those who worked very hard and got good grades, since they got lumped in with those who were just taking a true free ride. You see thats who gets hurt in these programs, and why affirmative action HURTS race relations.

As for me, I was in school past highschool for ...... umm.....4...2...4...3, that makes 13 years. My parents helped with the first 4 (and I worked), the rest was me + loans, + a stipend. I'm still paying my loans. So your point was?

[Sparhawk]

I think reperations through cash settlements are unsettling to me personally. However, reperations in the form of affirmative action I am very much in favor of. They have so much stacked against them that a little help in the admissions process is not a big deal.

[The_Dude]

Originally posted by Ustwo
They had all tuition and housing paid for, plus they needed lower scores to get in and lower scores to stay in school.

that's an extremely blanketing statement.

do all black people that attend college have lower scores and get their feels and housing paid for?

look @ colin powell or condolizza rice.

[irseg]

If you look at crime statistics, blacks tend to commit significantly more violent crimes. Therefore they owe me and all other white people reparations for creating a society in which I can't feel safe in any largish city after dark.

Think that's a terrible, racist thing to say? Well so is claiming white people of today are responsible for what a few people who happened to share the same skin color did 150 years ago.

[Apex Shok]

Originally posted by Darkblack
And why is this a problem? Maybe we should give back what we owe.

Then move.

[guthmund]

Originally posted by Darkblack
And why is this a problem? Maybe we should give back what we owe.

I, for one, have never owned, borrowed or bartered for a slave. Based on this I don't feel the need to reperate anyone. On that same note, I have never once brokered, signed or weaseled out of any contract with any American Indian. Following my logic, I don't feel the need to give them back anything.

I didn't do the crime, yet the suggestion is I should pay for it.

Now, I'm an American. Should I be held responsible for the actions of my government and suffer the consequences for decisions that I didn't personally make?

I'm sorry that it happened; I'm ashamed that it happened; but my shame and condolences are all your entitled to from me.

[Killconey]

Reparations are not a good idea because if you look through history, everyone owes someone somthing. We lied to the Native Americans and stole their land, we enslaved or virtually enslaved the African Americans, the Irish, the Jewish and even the lower class English. The Africans captured and enslaved other Africans both to sell to white people and to keep for themselves. The British and Spanish transported the slaves and kept some for themselves. Hell, if you look back far enough don't most of us deserve reparations because the Romans took over our ancestors' lands? Why don't we hunt down all the Roman's descendants and make them pay?

I'm willing to admit that my ancestors probably mistreated African Americans once upon a time. Now is not that time, though. Those who suffered are long since dead and those who inflicted the suffering are long since dead. How will this help anyone?