Minority War Death Myth? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Ustwo · 10-20-2003, 09:29 AM

A comment in the Iraqi murder thread about the 'minority' army made me recall a commentator saying that whites made up almost all of the combat troops (94-96% I don't recall). So I did a little research and found this.

Quote:

MINORITY WAR DEATHS: AN UGLY MYTH
By JAMES A. LACEY
New York Post
October 14, 2002 --
http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/op...ists/59536.htm

AS the United States inches toward war, an ugly myth is getting another public airing: that minorities and the poor do most of the dying in combat.

Rep. Charles Rangel (D-Harlem) made the claim again just last week, saying he opposed the anti-Iraq resolution because the military is largely made up of black, Hispanic and poor whites who join for economic reasons.

This myth began in the Vietnam era. But it's a total fabrication. Minorities did not die in disproportionate numbers in Vietnam or in any conflict thereafter. And since 1966, the exact opposite has mainly been the case.

Blacks were 12.5 percent of the deaths in Vietnam, 13.1 percent of the U.S. population and almost 11 percent of our forces in Vietnam. Whites (including Hispanics) were 88.4 percent of those who served in Vietnam and 86.3 percent of those who died there.

The highest rate of black deaths in Vietnam was 16.3 percent (in 1966) - and almost all of those killed that year were volunteers for elite units, not reluctant draftees.

Later, as draftees made up a greater number of our front-line troops, blacks were less likely to find themselves in combat. The year-by-year figures for black casualties: 1965, 14.4 percent; 1966, 16.3 percent: 1967, 12.5 percent; 1968, 13.2 percent; 1969, 11.4 percent; 1970, 11.0 percent; 1971, 11.4 percent; 1972, 10.1 percent; 1973, 2.4 percent; 1974, 1.6 percent; 1975, 4.4 percent.

Seventy-five percent of all blacks who served in Vietnam volunteered to go. They went there to demonstrate their courage, often questioned in earlier conflicts, and to prove their patriotism. They were not herded out of the slums to die in a racist war, and it is an insult to these brave men to say otherwise.

During the Gulf War, blacks made up 12 percent of the U.S. population, 24.5 percent of military personnel deployed to the gulf, and 15 percent of the total casualties. Whites made up 66 percent of the U.S. forces in the theater, and 78 percent of the casualties.

Today, blacks make up 19.6 percent of the military and 26.7 percent of the Army - higher than their share of the general population. But they're unlikely to become casualties at anywhere near that rate. In fact, if the war is fought in the same manner as Afghanistan, any losses will be overwhelmingly Caucasian. Pilots are mostly whites, while blacks make up less than 4 percent of Special Forces units.

Even in a conventional assault, black casualties will very likely come at considerably less than their enlistment rate - because today's front-line combat force is made up mostly of whites. Why? Because whites tend to join up for adventure; blacks tend to enlist to gain job skills, so fewer wind up in combat battalions.

That still leaves open the question of poverty: Are today's enlistees forced to become soldiers due to economic hardship? Again, the evidence indicates this is just another myth.

Virtually every member of the armed forces has a high school diploma, compared to just 79 percent of the comparable youth population. Practically all new recruits fall in the top three intellect categories (as measured by the Armed Forces Qualification Test), versus 69 percent of their civilian counterparts. New soldiers read at a higher level than civilians of the same age, too.

A thorough study by Columbia Univerity's Sue Berryman concluded: Enlistees "do not come from the more marginal groups on any of four dimensions: family socioeconomic status, measured verbal and quantitative abilities, educational achievement and work orientation."

Overall, both the rich and the poor are somewhat underrepresented in the armed forces. Rather, the U.S. military very closely reflects the makeup of our large middle class.

It is time to end the lie that America is more willing to fight a war because the people who will do most of the dying are either minorities or the socio-economic dredges of our society.

Very interesting to me, I wonder how our friends on the left would want to spin this?

Liquor Dealer · 10-20-2003, 10:50 AM

Those people over there on the left don't like facts - facts confuse the issue.

The_Dude · 10-20-2003, 11:07 AM

i've heard that since some minorities are generally poorer than whites, they tend to enlist in larger #'s than whites.

In my high school, I remember quite a few hispanic-americans going off to various parts of the armed forces than white students. (maybe that's cuz its texas).

Darkblack · 10-20-2003, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Liquor Dealer
Those people over there on the left don't like facts - facts confuse the issue.

Nice troll.

Ustwo · 10-20-2003, 11:41 AM

You know, when someone on the left posts something about, say Limbuagh, with no facts and pure vitriol, its not a troll?

Personally I agree with LD, the left DOESN'T like facts, as facts get in the way of fuzzy emotionalism.

Darkblack · 10-20-2003, 11:47 AM

Limbuagh wasn't an illigal drug abuser?

Oh I guess he checked himself into rehab for a vacation.

Darkblack · 10-20-2003, 11:58 AM

And another thing, so what if people say things about Limbaugh, people say things about Michael Moore too.

He didn't say anything about a figurehead he said something about every liberal on this board. We don't like facts. That sir is bullshit. I research everything I post and make sure there is some truth to back it up.

Republicans are all racist. The Republican Party was formed because the whites didn't want to vote along with the blacks.

Is this a troll? I think so and it even has some facts behind it.

Here are some more facts for ya…
Iraq has nukes and they are going to use them on us. They got them from Africa. We know exactly where they are and we are going to go in and get them.

chavos · 10-20-2003, 12:19 PM

That's for some of the responses...

The article also neglects that since th assault was not conventional, non-combat units suffered causalties at a greater rate than usual, since the supply lines were left unguarded. The actual answer to this question is not with in the scope of that article...the causualties have been publicly annouced...one could make a tally of ethnicity, and probably economic background. From the stories i've read in the local paper here, and nationally, i don't recall a preponderance of middle class caucasions being the ones to die...

eple · 10-20-2003, 12:40 PM

Jesus H. Christ. Could we just have a Liberal VS Conservative deathmatch or something, just get rid of a majority of you trolling fuckers? It would undoubtedly be a great relief for me and many other people of non-American heritage to get rid of those who are unable to discuss any issue without derailing it into a fucking pissfight between rigid political stances.

Liquor Dealer · 10-20-2003, 12:41 PM

Darkblack - not suggesting that you waste your time looking in history books but I think if you did just a little research you'll find thet the GOP - the party of Lincoln and Radical Reconstruction has nothing to do with the issue you're trying to raise - over time the standards of the old democratic Party and those of the old Republican party have flip flopped - some people say they've done this more than once - Southern Democrats probably come closer to filling the bill of preventing Blacks from voting than any other organized group other than the KKK. Look at all of the states that enacted Poll Taxes for no reason other than the prevention of Blacks voting - all from the "Solid South" . The land of the Dixie/Democrats. Party affiliation has nothing what-so-ever to do with what you're trying to stretch it into - A Republican from Texas, one from Massachusetts, and one from California have very little in common - other than walking on two legs. Political labels do little other than determine which side of the ballot your name appears on.

rogue49 · 10-20-2003, 12:53 PM

Closed
Due to the fact that this wasn't started for discussion
But deliberately provokes the opposing view.

DO NOT BATE OR TROLL!!
BOTH SIDES!!

10-20-2003, 10:50 AM	#2 (permalink)
Liquor Dealer Super Agitator Location: Just SW of Nowhere!!! In the good old US of A	Those people over there on the left don't like facts - facts confuse the issue. __________________ Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

10-20-2003, 11:07 AM	#3 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	i've heard that since some minorities are generally poorer than whites, they tend to enlist in larger #'s than whites. In my high school, I remember quite a few hispanic-americans going off to various parts of the armed forces than white students. (maybe that's cuz its texas). __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

10-20-2003, 11:41 AM	#5 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	You know, when someone on the left posts something about, say Limbuagh, with no facts and pure vitriol, its not a troll? Personally I agree with LD, the left DOESN'T like facts, as facts get in the way of fuzzy emotionalism. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

10-20-2003, 12:41 PM	#10 (permalink)
Liquor Dealer Super Agitator Location: Just SW of Nowhere!!! In the good old US of A	Darkblack - not suggesting that you waste your time looking in history books but I think if you did just a little research you'll find thet the GOP - the party of Lincoln and Radical Reconstruction has nothing to do with the issue you're trying to raise - over time the standards of the old democratic Party and those of the old Republican party have flip flopped - some people say they've done this more than once - Southern Democrats probably come closer to filling the bill of preventing Blacks from voting than any other organized group other than the KKK. Look at all of the states that enacted Poll Taxes for no reason other than the prevention of Blacks voting - all from the "Solid South" . The land of the Dixie/Democrats. Party affiliation has nothing what-so-ever to do with what you're trying to stretch it into - A Republican from Texas, one from Massachusetts, and one from California have very little in common - other than walking on two legs. Political labels do little other than determine which side of the ballot your name appears on. __________________ Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

10-20-2003, 11:47 AM	#6 (permalink)
Darkblack Banned Location: Pennsytuckia	Limbuagh wasn't an illigal drug abuser? Oh I guess he checked himself into rehab for a vacation.

10-20-2003, 11:58 AM	#7 (permalink)
Darkblack Banned Location: Pennsytuckia	And another thing, so what if people say things about Limbaugh, people say things about Michael Moore too. He didn't say anything about a figurehead he said something about every liberal on this board. We don't like facts. That sir is bullshit. I research everything I post and make sure there is some truth to back it up. Republicans are all racist. The Republican Party was formed because the whites didn't want to vote along with the blacks. Is this a troll? I think so and it even has some facts behind it. Here are some more facts for ya… Iraq has nukes and they are going to use them on us. They got them from Africa. We know exactly where they are and we are going to go in and get them.

10-20-2003, 12:19 PM	#8 (permalink)
chavos Banned Location: St. Paul, MN	That's for some of the responses... The article also neglects that since th assault was not conventional, non-combat units suffered causalties at a greater rate than usual, since the supply lines were left unguarded. The actual answer to this question is not with in the scope of that article...the causualties have been publicly annouced...one could make a tally of ethnicity, and probably economic background. From the stories i've read in the local paper here, and nationally, i don't recall a preponderance of middle class caucasions being the ones to die...

10-20-2003, 12:40 PM	#9 (permalink)
eple Banned Location: norway	Jesus H. Christ. Could we just have a Liberal VS Conservative deathmatch or something, just get rid of a majority of you trolling fuckers? It would undoubtedly be a great relief for me and many other people of non-American heritage to get rid of those who are unable to discuss any issue without derailing it into a fucking pissfight between rigid political stances.

10-20-2003, 12:53 PM	#11 (permalink)
rogue49 Loser	Closed Due to the fact that this wasn't started for discussion But deliberately provokes the opposing view. DO NOT BATE OR TROLL!! BOTH SIDES!!