Comatose Woman's Parents Hope for Legal Help - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

JBX · 10-16-2003, 03:08 PM

I want the opinion of the politics board on this issue. All I can say is that if I'm in a vegetative state with no real hope of leading a normal life, I want the plug pulled ... and you TFP'ers better help me. I don't give a flying fuck what anyone wants to do for me, I'll take my chances with the hereafter. In addition, any society that allows people to go on with no hope of recovery is screwed up. You wouldn't let your dog live like that. Her parent's forced her to live staring at the ceiling for 10 years and want her to spend more time that way. May they suffer what they brought upon her.

Quote:

PINELLAS PARK, Fla. — One of the nation's longest and most bitter euthanasia battles approached an end with the removal of a feeding tube from a comatose woman, but her parents clung to hope for a legal reversal and Gov. Jeb Bush promised to help.

The tube was removed Wednesday from Terri Schiavo (search), 39, at the Tampa Bay-area hospice where she has lived for several years. She was expected to die within 10 days.

Schiavo's parents have been locked in a legal battle with her husband, Michael Schiavo, who says she would rather die than be kept alive artificially. She has been in a vegetative state since 1990, when her heart stopped because of what doctors said may have been a chemical imbalance.

Bob Schindler said he and his wife, Mary, went in to see their daughter shortly after the tube was removed and gave her a kiss and hugged her. He said his daughter was not as responsive as they claim she normally has been.

"She's OK for the next couple of days," said Suzanne Carr, Terri Schiavo's sister. "We are just going to try to work some magic."

"I have to believe that somebody is doing something, somewhere to stop this judicial homicide," she said.

Wednesday's removal came just hours after Bush told the Schindlers that he was instructing his legal staff to find some means to block a court order allowing Michael Schiavo to end his wife's life. But even the family's lawyer has said their legal remedies have been exhausted.

"I am not a doctor, I am not a lawyer. But I know that if a person can be able to sustain life without life support, that should be tried," the governor said, adding the "ultimate decision of this is in the courts."

Family members were heartened by the governor's last-minute effort.

"The family has not given up hope on Terri," the woman's brother, Bob Schindler Jr., said following a meeting with Bush. "We have spoken to the governor, and he hasn't given up hope either."

Michael Schiavo (search) and his attorney George Felos were not immediately available for comment after the removal of the tube.

Several right-to-die cases across the nation have been fought in the courts in recent years, but few, if any, have been this drawn-out and bitter. The tangled case has already been handled by 19 separate judges and the tube has been ordered removed three times.

At one point 2001, the tube was removed for two days before a judge ordered feeding to be resumed based on new evidence.

About 100 protesters stood outside the hospice Wednesday in what has become a 24-hour vigil staged by advocates for the disabled and anti-abortion activists.

Schiavo's family members believe she is capable of learning how to eat and drink on her own and say she has shown signs of trying to communicate and could be rehabilitated.

Doctors have testified that the noises and facial expressions Terri Schiavo makes are reflexes and do not indicate that she has enough mental capabilities to communicate with others.

The Florida Supreme Court has twice refused to hear the case, and it also has been rejected for review by the U.S. Supreme Court. On Tuesday, a Florida appeals court again refused to block removal of the tube.

The Schindlers first sought to remove Michael Schiavo as his wife's guardian in 1993 after a falling out over her medical care. They say he now has a conflict of interest because he is engaged to another woman and they have a child together.

The family has also leveled allegations that Michael Schiavo has abused Terri Schiavo, although the accusations have not been substantiated.

Michael Schiavo has refused to divorce his wife, saying that he fears her parents would ignore her desire to die if they became her guardians

lurkette · 10-16-2003, 03:13 PM

I don't know all the medical facts, but it sounds like her doctors think that what the parents are clinging to - that she's making sounds and motions - are just reflexive actions and don't indicate that she has any chance in hell of coming out of the vegetative state. I sympathize with them, but sometimes you have to be strong enough to just let someone go. What kind of life would she want? It's sad, but I think they ought to let her go.

P.S. Everyone should have a living will.

splck · 10-16-2003, 04:56 PM

This is the reason I have a living will....if I ever get into that situation, let me die.

Food Eater Lad · 10-16-2003, 05:29 PM

Watch the Video of her, she moves her eyes to stimuli, she is hardly a vegtable. So starving to death is not justified.

lurkette · 10-16-2003, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Food Eater Lad
Watch the Video of her, she moves her eyes to stimuli, she is hardly a vegtable. So starving to death is not justified.

Where's this video?

lurkette · 10-16-2003, 05:50 PM

If she's capable of responding (tracked down some video with google) why don't they ask her what her wishes are? Is she capable of, for instance, blinking once for yes and twice for no?

<a href="http://host85.ipowerweb.com/~friendso/vid.html">http://host85.ipowerweb.com/~friendso/vid.html</a>

JBX · 10-16-2003, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Food Eater Lad
Watch the Video of her, she moves her eyes to stimuli, she is hardly a vegtable. So starving to death is not justified.

Yeah, I saw the video, if that's all my life is, kill me.

sixate · 10-16-2003, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JBX
Yeah, I saw the video, if that's all my life is, kill me.

Same here.
I'd much rather be dead.

Food Eater Lad · 10-16-2003, 06:09 PM

Then write it down, she didnt.

Liquor Dealer · 10-16-2003, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Food Eater Lad
Then write it down, she didnt.

Good advice - everyone should have a living will. If you don't some do-gooder or some extreme legalistic organization can tie things up for years - just like this case.

JBX · 10-16-2003, 07:02 PM

The starving to death brings us to another dilemma. Why can't we just give the terminally ill a shot to let them pass. Damn, we are brutal to our own kind.

Ustwo · 10-16-2003, 07:58 PM

If I got a chance of comming back I sure as hell want to take it.

Either she is a veggie and it doesn't MATTER if she lives or dies, OR she isn't and has a chance of comming out of it.

Food Eater Lad · 10-16-2003, 08:42 PM

Too bad she is responsive and is not a veggie. But dont let that fact enter into it.

Superbelt · 10-16-2003, 09:10 PM

reacting to stimuli is one thing. I don't think following movement is all that important. Cognitive ability is. What in that realm has she shown FEL?

If any, than yeah maybe she should live. But if she hasn't shown any true awarness and intelligence then she should be euthanized.

But not starved, starving is cruel. She needs a shot.

HarmlessRabbit · 10-16-2003, 11:34 PM

I agree with LD and FEL. If you don't want this to happen to you, have a living will. Do you really expect your parents or someone who loves you to "do the right thing"? No, they are going to try to save you in any way possible.

filtherton · 10-17-2003, 01:01 AM

My mother ended up having to remove both of her parents from life support. Her father had a stroke followed by a heart attack. Her mother had a massive heart attack. Neither really had any real hope of recovering. She "did the right thing." I'd expect anyone else in my family to respect me enough to let me die with dignity.

2wolves · 10-17-2003, 04:24 AM

Data I've not seen in the media on this issue; Is there or is there not brain activity corresponding to any cognitive abilitiy? Such information would crucial to making an informed decision.

A plant reponds to stimulus, doesn't mean it's thinking.

2Wolves

redravin40 · 10-17-2003, 06:44 AM

There is a side story to this.
There are people who suspect that her husband is the one responsible for her being choked until her brain was damaged.
He is her guardian, he is the one asking to have her feeding tube removed, and he is the one who will get a very large life insurance settlement when she dies.
Her parent want to be able to hand feed her but he is refusing even that or to let them get close to her.
It's all kind of suspicious.

Darkblack · 10-17-2003, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by redravin40
There is a side story to this.
There are people who suspect that her husband is the one responsible for her being choked until her brain was damaged.
He is her guardian, he is the one asking to have her feeding tube removed, and he is the one who will get a very large life insurance settlement when she dies.
Her parent want to be able to hand feed her but he is refusing even that or to let them get close to her.
It's all kind of suspicious.

This is exactly right; the husband has another "wife" in waiting. He is looking for some cash. There are doctors that think she has a chance to come out of this if they give her time. He is afraid of that and wants her gone.

Fuck him.

Superbelt · 10-17-2003, 07:03 AM

We don't know for a fact that he choked her. Did he have a history of abuse?

And the new wife in the wing thing.... It's been 13 years. There are few people who can remain faithful to a vegetable for that long. He needed to move on with his life.

If he got engaged 2 or 3 months after the accident, yeah there would be something there, but it was many years.

And there are many doctors who agree that she should be allowed to die. More than think she can pull out of it. If there wasn't the removal from feeding tubes wouldn't have been possible.

Bill O'Rights · 10-17-2003, 07:54 AM

Well now. I had some opinions nicely formatted in my own little brain. Until, that is, I read further down the thread. WTF is going on here?! Are there no criteria for accurately measuring her "vegetative state"? After 10 years is there really any chance of Terri coming "out of it"? What are Michael Schiavo's real motives? Can we, as a society, really just let her simply starve to death? Argh...too many questions.

First of all, allow Michael to simply walk away. Let him walk away, and get on with his life with his "other woman", with whom he has a child. But, and this is a mighty big but,....no life insurance payouts. He's done, he's clean, he's finished with it. Then his true motives will surface.

Next off, I don't know that Terri's parents are the best choice for her guardianship, either. It's a little hard for them to look on this objectively. It's not that I think that a lack of objectivety on their part is necesarily a bad thing...I just don't think that it's in Terri's best interest, at this point.

It all looks a little sketchy to me. There's only one thing that I do know for certain, and that's that I am going to call my attorney first thing next week and have a Living Will drawn up. Oh, and then hope to hell nothing happens to me over the weekend. But, if it should, for the love of whatever god(s) you pray to, don't let 'em stick me on some machine to languish for a decade, and then starve me!!!

2wolves · 10-17-2003, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by redravin40
There is a side story to this.
There are people who suspect that her husband is the one responsible for her being choked until her brain was damaged.
He is her guardian, he is the one asking to have her feeding tube removed, and he is the one who will get a very large life insurance settlement when she dies.
Her parent want to be able to hand feed her but he is refusing even that or to let them get close to her.
It's all kind of suspicious.

According to her Mom & Dad. From the reports I've seen no one else is bringing up the "He choked her" story except individuals tied to Mom & Dad.

Are Mom & Dad having a Munchhausen(sp?) Syndrome moment?

2Wolves

Liquor Dealer · 10-17-2003, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by redravin40
There is a side story to this.
There are people who suspect that her husband is the one responsible for her being choked until her brain was damaged.
He is her guardian, he is the one asking to have her feeding tube removed, and he is the one who will get a very large life insurance settlement when she dies.
Her parent want to be able to hand feed her but he is refusing even that or to let them get close to her.
It's all kind of suspicious.

From what I understand what money there is in insurance was used up by medical bills a long time ago. Medical experts have been telling the parents for years that she is nothing more than a vegetable but they insist differently - I think if I were the husband, under these circumstances, I'd go to court and let them take back legal responsibility for her and her medical bills and see if they still feel the way they are acting like they do now. I bet you'd see a totally different reactiuon than the face they are showing on TV.

bierslayer · 10-17-2003, 07:14 PM

[[[poof]]]

bonbonbox · 10-20-2003, 10:13 PM

Cruel and unusual punishment. If half of what I've read and heard about this situation is true, cruel and unusal punishment I would wish for Michaell Schiavo. I could buy his "I'm carrying out her wishes" bit if he hadn't taken the effort to obtain funds intended for her care. At what point did he remember her wishes? He sued to get those funds. Michael Schiavo began withholding nutrition and hydration shortly after winning $1.2 million on her behalf in a medical malpractice lawsuit. If he doesn't want to be burdened by his marital oath, hey, that's his business. Get involved with someone else. Have some kids. Go ahead and divorce your wife first though, would you. Makes anything you got to say about who possibly gets better to comunicate what alot more believable. I smell a skunk and the wind is blowing from his direction. The Florida House made a move to give the Jebbster power to feed Terri. Expect the Senate to approve it and put it on the Guv's desk toot suite. If you have a preference to live or die, make it known now. You can still alter that document and change your mind at a later date if you want. Do your part to keep the courts out of your business please.

smooth · 10-20-2003, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Liquor Dealer
From what I understand what money there is in insurance was used up by medical bills a long time ago. Medical experts have been telling the parents for years that she is nothing more than a vegetable but they insist differently - I think if I were the husband, under these circumstances, I'd go to court and let them take back legal responsibility for her and her medical bills and see if they still feel the way they are acting like they do now. I bet you'd see a totally different reactiuon than the face they are showing on TV.

This is my understanding from the media, as well. I think the same (footing the bill) should apply if Jeb steps in.

JBX · 10-21-2003, 01:35 PM

Quote:

TALLAHASSEE, Fla., Oct. 21 — Florida lawmakers gave Gov. Jeb Bush the power Tuesday to restore a feeding tube to a brain-damaged woman who is slowly starving to death. He said he would do so immediately.

Holy Fuck... will you let this woman die in peace already.

Food Eater Lad · 10-21-2003, 02:11 PM

Starving to death is not dying in peace.

splck · 10-21-2003, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Food Eater Lad
Starving to death is not dying in peace.

Maybe not for you or me, but what about a vegetable?

Food Eater Lad · 10-21-2003, 04:42 PM

You know for a fact that she doesnt feel pain? He moves her eyes to stimulus, and no one was able to post if she has any brain activity. If anyone can post that she is brain dead, then, well, she is still being starved to death.

Tman144 · 10-21-2003, 06:06 PM

I read that half of her brain has turned to luquid, and there is no way she will ever recover. People in the Flordia senate are using her for political gain. The only problem is, their stated beliefs are that the husband should make decisions in these types of cases. The congressmen go on and on about the sanctity of marriage until it doesn't suit them. The politicians don't care about her life.

After 10 years there is no reasonable possibility of her coming out of it. Its a vegitative state, not a coma. A coma can be recovered from, vegitative means your brain doesn't work.

Food Eater Lad · 10-21-2003, 06:17 PM

I believe in Euthanasia but when the family agrees. But the parents want her to live, and the husband is questionable. Had she a living will, and a more merciful way for her to die, I would be all for it. But not one person showed that she is brain dead, and her actions show that she is not, and her own parents want her to live, then keep her alive. The husband stands to gain nothing or loose nothing if she remains alive, where she is in no pain, why does he want her to starve, horribly to death? He is very questionable.

filtherton · 10-22-2003, 07:29 PM

PARTS OF HER BRAIN HAVE LIQUIFIED!!!!
THEY ARE LIQUID! Look in your coffee cup in the morning and try to picture its contents somehow magically turning into functional brain matter. The odds that your coffee is going to somehow magically start thinking for itself are about the same as the odds that this woman is going to make any kind of recovery. I'm sorry, but what kind of people want to prolong the life of a person who is only alive technically? According to every doctor i've heard speak on this subject there is no hope for this woman.
If you believe in a soul, for god's sake let her's move on.

lurkette · 10-23-2003, 06:13 AM

I heard a story on NPR last night about this. Those videos that the parents have been publicizing are highly misleading. What the doctors said was that even though she might look like she's responding, the brain activity (or lack of it) shows that she's not processing anything. Her brainstem (the part that keeps you breathing and your heart beating) is still alive, but all the higher functioning areas of the brain - the parts that process emotion, ideas, thoughts, memory, the parts that make up your personality - are basically soup. There's no way she could learn to feed herself, because there's no way she can learn anything.

And Jeb Bush really crossed the line. This is a high profile, high publicity case, and the injunction is going to be overturned in court. I wouldn't want some damn politician having say over whether I live or die just because it'll help his poll numbers.

I feel so badly for the parents, but they need to face reality and let her go. They're hanging on to her for their own sake, and not for hers. She's been gone for a long time, and it sounds like they're just seeing what they want to see.

Ustwo · 10-23-2003, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lurkette
I feel so badly for the parents, but they need to face reality and let her go. They're hanging on to her for their own sake, and not for hers. She's been gone for a long time, and it sounds like they're just seeing what they want to see.

So what. Its their child. Are you so cavalier about human life that you just tell them 'its for the best' and pull the plug?

I personally don't think shes ever coming out of it but starving someone to death is NOT an acceptable answer. Either the law should allow euthanasia or not, but trying to 'back door' it by forced starvation is barbaric.

Darkblack · 10-23-2003, 07:10 AM

Quote:

I personally don't think shes ever coming out of it but starving someone to death is NOT an acceptable answer. Either the law should allow euthanasia or not, but trying to 'back door' it by forced starvation is barbaric.

I have to agree with this. I just can't see letting someone starve to death. We wouldn't do this to our pets, why do it to our peers?

lurkette · 10-23-2003, 07:19 AM

I agree that forced starvation is not the best answer - euthanasia would be kinder. But until they legalize euthanasia, we should keep this poor woman's soul tethered to her useless body because it makes the parents feel better? The parents aren't just objecting to the method of death, they're laboring under the delusion that this woman communicates and could be taught to take care of herself. Fine - give them the chance to be proven wrong. But if it turns out that she IS in fact a vegetable and can't learn anything, as almost all of the doctors not paid by the parents have said, it seems to me that starvation would be a far kinder fate than lingering for the rest of your life in a vegetative state. Her higher order brain functions are gone. She will experience physical discomfort but won't suffer - the part of the brain that interprets stimuli as "suffering" on an emotional level is gone. (To be fair, she's not suffering now, either, for the exact same reason.) None of this would be an issue if legislators would quit being so bullheaded and legalize euthanasia for cases like this.

lurkette · 10-23-2003, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ustwo
So what. Its their child. Are you so cavalier about human life that you just tell them 'its for the best' and pull the plug?

I'm by no means cavalier about human life, but there's a difference between being physically alive and being ALIVE, and I think you have to ask what this woman would have wanted, not what her parents want. If she didn't have a living will, it's basically a matter of what the husband says she would have wanted vs. what the parents want.

My brother was hit by a car in April. He was in a coma for two weeks, and during those two weeks we had to think not just about what would happen if he came around - all the rehabilitation and pain and recuperation - but what Josh would want if he just...lingered. What kind of life would he be able to have? Would it be a life worth having? At the end, as his body systems shut down one by one and he "coded" we had to make the decision to tell them to stop working on him and let him go, or keep him on life support. I love my brother fiercely, and we understood each other on a level that few people do. And I knew that he would rather die than live crippled, let alone brain damaged as he would be after his body crashed, and he would smack me up in the next life if I let him be hooked to machines for the rest of his life. I want my brother back more than anything in the world. If he had lived I would have done anything to take care of him - quit my job, move to LA, push him around the skate park every day in a wheelchair, anything. But that's what I want. Not what he would want. And I have to respect his wishes, no matter how painful it is for me or the rest of my family. I was the one who told them to stop, because my mom just couldn't do it. I was the one who held his hand while he died.

So am I "so cavalier about human life"? I would have to say no. But there are some things that are more important than just keeping someone alive.

filtherton · 10-23-2003, 01:40 PM

Quote:

I personally don't think shes ever coming out of it but starving someone to death is NOT an acceptable answer. Either the law should allow euthanasia or not, but trying to 'back door' it by forced starvation is barbaric.

Why is it any more barbaric than any other death? She'll most likely die of dehydration before she starves. When you die from dehydration you just fall asleep and never wake up. How is that barbaric?
The point of removing someone from life support is to let them die from whatever is killing them. Being removed from a respirator means you get to suffocate, that may seem barbaric, but it is also fairly common. It is certainly not the worst way to go. I think it is way more barbaric, borderline torture, to keep someone alive, just barely, for your own selfish reasons.

JBX · 10-23-2003, 02:08 PM

lurkette, this being so close to your experience you are uniquely qualified to make an honest assesment. Thanks for sharing.

10-16-2003, 03:13 PM	#2 (permalink)
lurkette My future is coming on Moderator Emeritus Location: east of the sun and west of the moon	I don't know all the medical facts, but it sounds like her doctors think that what the parents are clinging to - that she's making sounds and motions - are just reflexive actions and don't indicate that she has any chance in hell of coming out of the vegetative state. I sympathize with them, but sometimes you have to be strong enough to just let someone go. What kind of life would she want? It's sad, but I think they ought to let her go. P.S. Everyone should have a living will. __________________ "If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." - Anatole France

10-16-2003, 04:56 PM	#3 (permalink)
splck it's jam Location: Lowerainland BC	This is the reason I have a living will....if I ever get into that situation, let me die. __________________ nice line eh?

10-16-2003, 05:50 PM	#6 (permalink)
lurkette My future is coming on Moderator Emeritus Location: east of the sun and west of the moon	If she's capable of responding (tracked down some video with google) why don't they ask her what her wishes are? Is she capable of, for instance, blinking once for yes and twice for no? <a href="http://host85.ipowerweb.com/~friendso/vid.html">http://host85.ipowerweb.com/~friendso/vid.html</a> __________________ "If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." - Anatole France

10-16-2003, 07:02 PM	#11 (permalink)
JBX Unfair and Imbalanced Location: Upstate, NY	The starving to death brings us to another dilemma. Why can't we just give the terminally ill a shot to let them pass. Damn, we are brutal to our own kind. __________________ "Youth and Strength is no match for Age and Treachery"

10-16-2003, 07:58 PM	#12 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	If I got a chance of comming back I sure as hell want to take it. Either she is a veggie and it doesn't MATTER if she lives or dies, OR she isn't and has a chance of comming out of it. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

10-16-2003, 05:29 PM	#4 (permalink)
Food Eater Lad Banned	Watch the Video of her, she moves her eyes to stimuli, she is hardly a vegtable. So starving to death is not justified.

10-16-2003, 06:09 PM	#9 (permalink)
Food Eater Lad Banned	Then write it down, she didnt.

10-16-2003, 08:42 PM	#13 (permalink)
Food Eater Lad Banned	Too bad she is responsive and is not a veggie. But dont let that fact enter into it.

10-16-2003, 09:10 PM	#14 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	reacting to stimuli is one thing. I don't think following movement is all that important. Cognitive ability is. What in that realm has she shown FEL? If any, than yeah maybe she should live. But if she hasn't shown any true awarness and intelligence then she should be euthanized. But not starved, starving is cruel. She needs a shot.

10-16-2003, 11:34 PM	#15 (permalink)
HarmlessRabbit Junkie Location: San Jose, CA	I agree with LD and FEL. If you don't want this to happen to you, have a living will. Do you really expect your parents or someone who loves you to "do the right thing"? No, they are going to try to save you in any way possible.

10-17-2003, 01:01 AM	#16 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	My mother ended up having to remove both of her parents from life support. Her father had a stroke followed by a heart attack. Her mother had a massive heart attack. Neither really had any real hope of recovering. She "did the right thing." I'd expect anyone else in my family to respect me enough to let me die with dignity.

10-17-2003, 04:24 AM	#17 (permalink)
2wolves Psycho Location: Just outside the D.C. belt	Data I've not seen in the media on this issue; Is there or is there not brain activity corresponding to any cognitive abilitiy? Such information would crucial to making an informed decision. A plant reponds to stimulus, doesn't mean it's thinking. 2Wolves

10-17-2003, 06:44 AM	#18 (permalink)
redravin40 Loser Location: With Jadzia	There is a side story to this. There are people who suspect that her husband is the one responsible for her being choked until her brain was damaged. He is her guardian, he is the one asking to have her feeding tube removed, and he is the one who will get a very large life insurance settlement when she dies. Her parent want to be able to hand feed her but he is refusing even that or to let them get close to her. It's all kind of suspicious.

10-17-2003, 07:03 AM	#20 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	We don't know for a fact that he choked her. Did he have a history of abuse? And the new wife in the wing thing.... It's been 13 years. There are few people who can remain faithful to a vegetable for that long. He needed to move on with his life. If he got engaged 2 or 3 months after the accident, yeah there would be something there, but it was many years. And there are many doctors who agree that she should be allowed to die. More than think she can pull out of it. If there wasn't the removal from feeding tubes wouldn't have been possible.

10-17-2003, 07:54 AM	#21 (permalink)
Bill O'Rights will always be an Alyson Hanniganite Location: In the dust of the archives	Well now. I had some opinions nicely formatted in my own little brain. Until, that is, I read further down the thread. WTF is going on here?! Are there no criteria for accurately measuring her "vegetative state"? After 10 years is there really any chance of Terri coming "out of it"? What are Michael Schiavo's real motives? Can we, as a society, really just let her simply starve to death? Argh...too many questions. First of all, allow Michael to simply walk away. Let him walk away, and get on with his life with his "other woman", with whom he has a child. But, and this is a mighty big but,....no life insurance payouts. He's done, he's clean, he's finished with it. Then his true motives will surface. Next off, I don't know that Terri's parents are the best choice for her guardianship, either. It's a little hard for them to look on this objectively. It's not that I think that a lack of objectivety on their part is necesarily a bad thing...I just don't think that it's in Terri's best interest, at this point. It all looks a little sketchy to me. There's only one thing that I do know for certain, and that's that I am going to call my attorney first thing next week and have a Living Will drawn up. Oh, and then hope to hell nothing happens to me over the weekend. But, if it should, for the love of whatever god(s) you pray to, don't let 'em stick me on some machine to languish for a decade, and then starve me!!! __________________ "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

10-17-2003, 07:14 PM	#24 (permalink)
bierslayer Upright	[[[poof]]] Last edited by bierslayer; 11-04-2005 at 12:38 PM..

10-20-2003, 10:13 PM	#25 (permalink)
bonbonbox Banned	Cruel and unusual punishment. If half of what I've read and heard about this situation is true, cruel and unusal punishment I would wish for Michaell Schiavo. I could buy his "I'm carrying out her wishes" bit if he hadn't taken the effort to obtain funds intended for her care. At what point did he remember her wishes? He sued to get those funds. Michael Schiavo began withholding nutrition and hydration shortly after winning $1.2 million on her behalf in a medical malpractice lawsuit. If he doesn't want to be burdened by his marital oath, hey, that's his business. Get involved with someone else. Have some kids. Go ahead and divorce your wife first though, would you. Makes anything you got to say about who possibly gets better to comunicate what alot more believable. I smell a skunk and the wind is blowing from his direction. The Florida House made a move to give the Jebbster power to feed Terri. Expect the Senate to approve it and put it on the Guv's desk toot suite. If you have a preference to live or die, make it known now. You can still alter that document and change your mind at a later date if you want. Do your part to keep the courts out of your business please.

10-21-2003, 02:11 PM	#28 (permalink)
Food Eater Lad Banned	Starving to death is not dying in peace.

10-21-2003, 04:42 PM	#30 (permalink)
Food Eater Lad Banned	You know for a fact that she doesnt feel pain? He moves her eyes to stimulus, and no one was able to post if she has any brain activity. If anyone can post that she is brain dead, then, well, she is still being starved to death.

10-21-2003, 06:06 PM	#31 (permalink)
Tman144 Tilted	I read that half of her brain has turned to luquid, and there is no way she will ever recover. People in the Flordia senate are using her for political gain. The only problem is, their stated beliefs are that the husband should make decisions in these types of cases. The congressmen go on and on about the sanctity of marriage until it doesn't suit them. The politicians don't care about her life. After 10 years there is no reasonable possibility of her coming out of it. Its a vegitative state, not a coma. A coma can be recovered from, vegitative means your brain doesn't work.

10-21-2003, 06:17 PM	#32 (permalink)
Food Eater Lad Banned	I believe in Euthanasia but when the family agrees. But the parents want her to live, and the husband is questionable. Had she a living will, and a more merciful way for her to die, I would be all for it. But not one person showed that she is brain dead, and her actions show that she is not, and her own parents want her to live, then keep her alive. The husband stands to gain nothing or loose nothing if she remains alive, where she is in no pain, why does he want her to starve, horribly to death? He is very questionable.

10-22-2003, 07:29 PM	#33 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	PARTS OF HER BRAIN HAVE LIQUIFIED!!!! THEY ARE LIQUID! Look in your coffee cup in the morning and try to picture its contents somehow magically turning into functional brain matter. The odds that your coffee is going to somehow magically start thinking for itself are about the same as the odds that this woman is going to make any kind of recovery. I'm sorry, but what kind of people want to prolong the life of a person who is only alive technically? According to every doctor i've heard speak on this subject there is no hope for this woman. If you believe in a soul, for god's sake let her's move on.

10-23-2003, 06:13 AM	#34 (permalink)
lurkette My future is coming on Moderator Emeritus Location: east of the sun and west of the moon	I heard a story on NPR last night about this. Those videos that the parents have been publicizing are highly misleading. What the doctors said was that even though she might look like she's responding, the brain activity (or lack of it) shows that she's not processing anything. Her brainstem (the part that keeps you breathing and your heart beating) is still alive, but all the higher functioning areas of the brain - the parts that process emotion, ideas, thoughts, memory, the parts that make up your personality - are basically soup. There's no way she could learn to feed herself, because there's no way she can learn anything. And Jeb Bush really crossed the line. This is a high profile, high publicity case, and the injunction is going to be overturned in court. I wouldn't want some damn politician having say over whether I live or die just because it'll help his poll numbers. I feel so badly for the parents, but they need to face reality and let her go. They're hanging on to her for their own sake, and not for hers. She's been gone for a long time, and it sounds like they're just seeing what they want to see. __________________ "If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." - Anatole France

10-23-2003, 07:19 AM	#37 (permalink)
lurkette My future is coming on Moderator Emeritus Location: east of the sun and west of the moon	I agree that forced starvation is not the best answer - euthanasia would be kinder. But until they legalize euthanasia, we should keep this poor woman's soul tethered to her useless body because it makes the parents feel better? The parents aren't just objecting to the method of death, they're laboring under the delusion that this woman communicates and could be taught to take care of herself. Fine - give them the chance to be proven wrong. But if it turns out that she IS in fact a vegetable and can't learn anything, as almost all of the doctors not paid by the parents have said, it seems to me that starvation would be a far kinder fate than lingering for the rest of your life in a vegetative state. Her higher order brain functions are gone. She will experience physical discomfort but won't suffer - the part of the brain that interprets stimuli as "suffering" on an emotional level is gone. (To be fair, she's not suffering now, either, for the exact same reason.) None of this would be an issue if legislators would quit being so bullheaded and legalize euthanasia for cases like this. __________________ "If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." - Anatole France

10-23-2003, 02:08 PM	#40 (permalink)
JBX Unfair and Imbalanced Location: Upstate, NY	lurkette, this being so close to your experience you are uniquely qualified to make an honest assesment. Thanks for sharing. __________________ "Youth and Strength is no match for Age and Treachery"