Who would you like to see Conquered?
 

Hypothetically, imagine that you are driving home and you hear on the radio that the United States has declared yet another war. Unfortunately you are in a hurry and can't catch the whole news story -so you don't know who the US is at war with.

Who do you secretly hope will get it?

(Note that there are restrictions to the number of elements in a poll... I would've included EVERY single country but decided to limit the countries that people are likely to hate.)

If your most hated country isn't on this list -Tell us what should be here OR if you really hate this poll... just tell us so.

I voted against Zimbabwe because I have a thing against piss-ant dictators who bring thier countries down with them.

Bah! Like that'll ever happen.. (Maybe if Zimbabwe had oil).

Saudi Arabia. I hate countries based on religion, so Iran and Isreal would come in for a distant 2nd

The PRC, they can get really annoying sometimes. Not to mention, they're the only challenge that can put up a fight against us.

so why isn't the USA listed? isn't it the most hated country? Not that I'd like to see it clobbered since I live here, but I'm pretty sure many outside the US would certainly like it.

Problem is that the US can't attack itself. At least I don't think so. Maybe Bush can 'figgre' out a way.

I think we ought' go over and do France - If for no other reason than shits and giggles. When there ass is almost kicked - elapsed time 1 min and 3 secs. they can look off to the horizon to see who is coming to their rescue this time and say Merde!!!

well, your question wasn't really who do you think the US should attack. It was "Who would you like to see conquered?" , "Who do you think most deserves to get Clobbered", and "Who do you secretly hope will get it?" But hey, its your poll.

Fair enough. If I was to do it with unlimited countries... I'd add the US.


I'd also add Venezuela and Syria... Call me a warmonger.

I voted France. Some of the others are far greater threats to be sure, China especially but they never really do us any harm and I don't think they'd want to even if we meant to blow up their embassy when we did. France though keeps putting their thumb in our eye.

Plus, France is prettier then China or Iran.

France is too easy, I mean, we could send in one fuckin Marine and they'd be like, fuck, we give up, there's just no hope!

I wanted to see the Federated States of Micronesia, they just can't keep their mouths shut damnit! Always yapping away criticizing the world and using their security council veto irresponsibly.

You know you COULD move. I hear Canada is lovely this time of year, butt cold, but lovely.

Why no USA? Not everyone here is an American:D

North Korea before they start selling nukes to terrorists. Mabye Clinton should have thought of that when he was ignoring them during his tenure.

Israel. granted it's our fault for puting them there, i just would rather see the whole area given back to the palenstians, since they were there before the nation of israel was created in 1947. it's archaic, but one wonders if it might possibly get some of the terrorists organizations off our backs. speaking in the most broad of terms, though.

I think you need to review your history, both ancient and recent, but that's another thread.


North Korea was my choice.

I mean, my God, those people are turning cannibal.

And all the "Dear Leader" can do is build up his military to INSANE proportions while playing nuclear brinksmanship while blaming everyone but himself and his father ("The Great Leader") for killing their people.

I voted Israel. Solves the largest problem in the Middle East, and gives the US one hell of a black eye as it goes down. Hell, the entire East Coast might be radioactive rubble by the end of it, they do have a lot of nukes you know, and submarine. Thats one way to end rampant unilateralism.

i voted Israel too. i can't understand why they don't just stop creating settlements and make peace. surely they see that they are as big a cause of the terrorism against them as the Palestinians. they commit their own atrocities everyday too.

of course, i see both sides point of view but i think if Israel was no more than a lot of issues would be resolved.

You made two points I was going to make, about the palestinians "right" to their homeland, and about how North Korea would be better of if we "conquered" them, but I also wanted to add that Saudi Arabia would be my next choice, but not until their rulers are overthrown from within.


Let me stick up for Israel some more, though. What are you people thinking?! I'm not jewish, nor do I have any close friends that are, but I admire the nation and the people quite a bit. They have a tiny piece of land and almost no natural resources, but have a far more stable government than any other on that list with the possible exception of France. When their nation has been attacked, they obliterated the attacking forces and conquered more land, which they eventually gave back for peace. They have a greater historical "right" to the land than the Palestinians, yet they bent over backwards giving and giving concessions in the hopes of a peace agreement with Yassir Arafat, only for him to ask for more and then say it wasn't enough. We, the U.S. also owe them debts of gratitude for their restraint in the 1st Gulf War and for attacking Iraq's nuclear powerplant in the 80's. I could go on, but, as was stated before, that's not the point of this thread. I was just really suprised at the results after voting. Also, with the possible exception of China, they would be the hardest to conquer.

Another vote for the US, even though they are not listed...

Israel is e good second-choise I guess. Those guys are a disgrace to the western world and to jews in general.

this poll makes me a bit anrgy, therefore i also vote for the US.
Maybe it is time that you finally have a modern war on your own soil,
maybe it is time that you feel what you are joking about.

Add one more vote for the US. North Korea as a second choice.

The United States.

"Pacifism is objectively pro-Fascist. This is elementary common sense. If you hamper the war effort of one side you automatically help out that of the other. Nor is there any real way of remaining outside such a war as the present one. In practice, `he that is not with me is against me.''' -George Orwell


So it seems that by 'being against' the US you are staking out your side too. The US is a Republic and the wars which she is presently engaged in are against dictatorships (edit: or religious oligarchy). By 'being against the US' you are in fact on the side of dictators.


Your reply?

ah the old "with us or against us" bs
black and white ...

and as i said im a bit angry about the poll, normally i would wish noone a war. but a few "right wingers" here are making me really mad.

I had to add Canada... I mean, the eh's and stuff ARG!
/trying to interject some humor

I've never heard a really good answer to this. I originally brought this up on another board shortly after the invasion of Afghanistan. If you really want to help your cause -I think you should have a better answer than claiming that it's "B.S". (Do it for yourself man!)



People often claim that I'm a right winger... I'm not. Foul mouth and aggressive centrist is what I am. -and I'm not trying to make you mad. You'll have to disassociate your feelings from my words. It can only make you better at expressing your point.

belive it or not, I can dislike both the current US policy and the those dictatorships,
therefor claiming that, if im against the US im for the dictators is ridiculous and narrow minded.

If you're referring to all of the people who have held that land for the last 2000 years, i understand where you're coming from. all i was refering to was the UN (which normally, i fully support) arbitrarily creating the nation of israel and sending people in there, effectively ousting the palestinians. i understand that it's can't rightfully be called anyone's, since 3 major religions have ties to the area, i just am going with the idea that since the palenstinians had it last, before 1947, we shouldn't have messed with it, and there is a school of thought that if that hadn't happened, arab terrorist groups might not hate the west as much.

Again, you need to review your history.

The Zionist movement started in the 20's with European Jews moving to Palestine and purchasing land, joining the Jews that already lived in that area (contrary to popular propaganda, there have always been Jews living in Palestine.

After WW2 and increasing Arab-Jewish conflict, the UN tried to partition Palestine about 50/50 between the Jews and Arabs, something the Arabs rejected.

This led to the Isreali war of independence in 1947, and it was THAT event that created Isreal, not the UN.

Also, the United States did not seriously become an ally of Isreal until the late 50's when the USSR tried in increase it's influence in the area by supplying Egypt and Syria with weapons.

You are forgetting that in the creation of Israel, land promised to the Palastinians after they helped the British fight in WW2 ( see the film Lawrence of Arabia) was then given to Israel. The promise was forgotten, and 780,000 Palastinians were forced out at gun point, and THAT is why the arabs rejected the formation of Israel, and the war started. Its never so black and white.

USA. I get really upset that they keep picking fights with everyone else. I mean most of the wars USA goes into has nothing to do with them. It is just flexing their biceps. Coming fromyugoslav descent I should say either serbia or croatia but I dont. They have been at war for like over 1000 years but they still had a realm rich culture. The US attack on serbia a few years ago destroyed most of the buildings that were architectual culture. Beautiful buildings that had survived the croatian war for over a thousand years. Along comes america for a few weeks and destroy them all. Once they destroyed everything they piss off and leave the people of the country to clean up their mess. I wouldnt really care who did it but I would rather see USA get taken out just to bring them back down to reality with the rest of the world.

FEL,

I'll have to review the film (I own it on VHS), but as I recall, that was Jordan that was promised to the Palestinians.

Also, there were several massacres where Arabs went on rampages and killed Jews.

During the '47 war, many Palestinians fled by their own choosing to neighboring Jordan until the "Zionists" were drivin out by the Arabs (which of course never happened.

Anyway, now back to your regularly scheduled thread.

LOL.

Yep, soon as i saw this idiotic thread i thought, "wonder if he added the USA?"

But, na, who could even imagine such a thing.

If you were to add the USA and ask this poll around the world, i bet the USA would win, err, loose. Whatever.

You just worry about maintaining order in your new little empire there kiddies.

Yeah, but, how would you like it if a bunch of european jews just suddenly decided that they wanted colorado. They moved in, kicked you out of your homes, took your land, starved you out, herded you into refugee camps, marginalized you, took away your livelihood, forced you to adopt their ways, and then built a wall around you. (Isn't it ironic that they have adopted the ways of Hitler? First you isolate a people, then you rename them, then you take away their freedom of movement, then you put them in camps, then you kill them.)

For every jew you killed, they killed 10 of yours because "they have a right to defend themselves"

They go after you, they use missiles, they bomb your refugee camps, they kill your children, then appologize on the jewish owned media and express regret, but reafirm their desire to kill you.

They call you a "terrorist" because it's the new catch word in the american psychie stemming from 911 that will keep big brother on their side. Suddenly, you are not a soldier, you are a "terrorist".

You wouldn't fight back???

You have to hand it to the palestinians, they don't just sit back and take the Israeli bullshit. They fight back with stones, gasoline and explosive vests. Cause that's all they have.

Israel is EVIL as far as I am concerned. And no, i am not an arab.

I voted for Israel. They have no right to be there and are causing nothing but shit for the rest of the world.

However, in a demonstration of my generous spirit, in exchange for all the jews leaving Palestine, i offer to give them an equivalent amount of land, no wait, double their land even in Northern Quebec, or perhaps labrador. Yes, the new Jewish state could for once and for all be safe from "terrorists" in virgin land along side Frobisher Bay.

Not analogous.

I've addressed this type of argument before.

I believe it was "What if Canada took over the US".

Please do a search if you're interested.

First of European Jews didn't magically show up. Zionism and the purchase of land legally had been going on for almost a century. Secondly the Jews never put any Palestinians in refugee camps. It was the Arabs that put the Palestinians in refugee camps.

They are legally and morally well within their rights to defend their citizens by any means necessary. And they are called terrorists because <gasp> get this they resort to terrorism on civilian populations (the Palestinians that is)!!! I mean get serious. P.S. This is the second infitida right now and this is not the first time that the Palestinians have resorted to terrorism, brush up on your history and some factual information, you be surprised at what you learn.

Kinda funny how the Arabs and Palestinians started the fight but were unable to finish it. Israel never wanted control over Palestinian lands and in fact have offered them for peace many times.

You clearly have no idea what is going on over in Israel, comments like this show your ignorance on the matter. And by saying I am in no way saying Israel's hands are clean.

Lebell, i appreciate your enlightening me on the matter, i remembered learning about the zionist movement and the israeli war, back in history like, 2 years ago. memory seems fit to want to meld everything together, i guess. however, i still hold my opinion that i would remove Israel. Neither side is honestly working for peace, and that removing Israel would likely help to repair our relations with Islamic countries and groups, because a big issue (and i know this isn't it's entirety, and it's a multifaceted issue) is that it seems to them, that we take anyone's side but theirs. Yeah, you'll piss off israeli's and a majority of the world's jews. But when was the last time we went to war and actually considered how somebody else feels. ;)

Well mojo,

So what do you call the israelis who bomb the shit out of a palestinian house and kill 8 kids inside? I guess they are terrorists too.

The Israelis are murdering scumbags.

Actually the whole area is just plain fucked as far as i am concerned

:rolleyes:

Your argument, whittled down to one incredibly well thought-out remark. I don't see how any of us could have ever disagreed with you.

I find it interesting.

So often we hear about a Palestinian who indiscriminately and brutally murders dozens of men, women, and children.

We then hear a proud proclamation of responsibility by a Palestinian group, and shortly thereafter we hear about Isreal arresting or killing members of that same group.

Then we hear about how neither side is doing enough for peace, that both are at fault, and the Israelis are just as guilty as Palestinians.

In case anyone has drifted off, let me reiterate:
Palestinian kills kids
Palestinian group gleefully boasts about killing kids
Israel defends
Observers condemn.

Moral relativism on such a scale is truly disturbing, people. Those who voted "Israel" in the above poll desparately need to acknowledge two basic moral truths: wanton, indiscriminate murder of civilians is wrong, self defense is right.

Got that?

Welcome to Politics, apechild.

Hey, thanks for the warm welcome. Though I have to admit, I'm a bit discouraged by some of the remarks I've read here. There have been some really reckless comments made, and I feel that if someone makes a strong statement, such as Eple's "Those guys are a disgrace to the western world and to jews in general" he has a responsibility to support that statement with fact, reason, and sound logic.

:lol:

Something you will rarely see in politics.

You can't have it both ways.

You can't condemn the Israelis for killing children (with sloppy targeting) while not condemning the Palestinians with intentional shooting and bombing of children.

And THAT is why this is an internet chat board and not "Meet the Nation".

You will see the entire gambit of opinions from the informed to the uninformed, from the far left to the far right.

As long as you can keep it in that perspective, you can enjoy the conversation.

If you can't, then it is time to take a break from this forum.


Good luck!

Wow looks like Israel is "winning". Very interesting indeed.

I actually have dirt on Israel that nobody has brought up yet. This is really good dirt from an American-Jingoistic perspective (as if there is any other).

Israel is one of the US's "allies" that has been caught spying on the US. Here, whet your appetite with this cnn article:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/09/01/pollard/

Self defense might be morally and legally right for you.
For me it's morally wrong and legally wrong as well, as in France, if you kill someone whether it was self defense or not is not relevant enough to get you acquitted, it may bring you circumstances but you can be sure that you'll be going to jail for a couple years. As far as the morally wrong goes, it's my opinion and i'm entitled to it, but I find that solutions that do not work are not morally right, and violent retaliation is obviously not a working solution, else the fight over there would have stopped a long time ago.
I may look very christian even though I'm atheistic but when someone hit you in the face show him the other cheeck is what is insuring my safety since years.

And on top of that, what they do is not self defence, it's retaliation.

"I may look very christian even though I'm atheistic but when someone hit you in the face show him the other cheeck is what is insuring my safety since years.

And on top of that, what they do is not self defence, it's retaliation."

I hope that I live my life in a way that to some point follows Christian principles. BUT! If you hit me in the face you better have brought your lunch because one of us is in for an ass kicking, even if it takes all day. You can call it self-defense or you can call it retaliation, it makes no difference what you call it - it is what comes down when you choose to enter that space that is inside of the boundary established by the position of the tip of my nose. I hope my government goes about its business in the same manner. You fuck with the bull you get the horn.

Another reason to hate the French. They feel so guilty about being execution happy for so many centuries they go to the other extreme.

hell, if we invaded france, i'd sign up. how much fun would it be to march through the Arch du Triumph after their surrender monkey asses have been defeated. It's the only thing the Nazi's ever did that I thought wasn't evil. (edit: i mean that in a joking sorta way, not as a pro-nazi thing, just... eh, i think you get the drift?)

And remind me again who is morally correct and who isn't?

Aren't both sides murdering innocent civilians in the name of self defence? Perhaps the notion of self defence should be viewed through the eyes of those staring at a suicide bomber or Apache helicopters.

Terrorism is terrorism be it radical or state sponsored.

Got that?

And people wonder why Israel is jumpy?

Palestinians don't murder in self defense. Look at groups like Al Aqsa and Hamas, you know the reason they aren't interested in peace??? Just like the rest of the Arab-Muslim world they DON'T WANT PEACE!!!! Their stated goal is the complete and total destruction of the state of Israel, you will never ever in a million years see peace aslong as the Arabs have that mentality. And if you say "But the Israeli's don't want peace either" you are a fool, Israel just wants to be left alone, thats all they've ever asked for until the whole ordeal got sooooo escalated, now they are neck deep in all this bullshit.

Also from the PM of Malaysia
Also
This could be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen. Get fucking serious, if someone is trying to murder you in cold blood and you take them out first you are in the wrong? Seriously what kind of backwards Liberal Pinko bull shit is that???

Some would say also that the goal of the Isreali's is the complete and total destruction of Palestinians.

Unfortunately overgeneralizations from both sides seems to be the norm.There are proportionately as many Isreali's and Palestinians who want the other side rid of.

I would agree though that it would be foolish to say the Isreali's don't want peace.They do want peace.What they don't want is a Palestinian state no matter how many times they talk out of both sides of their mouths.

I don't think the Isreali's can comprehend the existence of a Palestinian state since then they would be side by side a country that would be within international law to protect itself from attacks from any other country including Isreal.

But if the Isreali's were smarter,they would happily have the country of Palestine next to them and the first suicide bomb in Isreal would be all the reason for a huge land grab.Anyone who thinks Isreal doesn't want to broaden its boarders is a fool.And the settlements are taking to long in the quest for more land.

What about another civil war?

There is no doubt in my mind that certain right-wing elements wanted a civil war during the Clinton era. It was all over conservative talk radio that I *AHEM* never listen to.

If you remember those black helicopters (piloted by none other than a combination of Clinton's body guards, the UN and Chinese spies) were really the first wave of gun-control enthusiasts starting a civil war over the second amendment and the abortion issue.

Of course the black helicopters disappeared as soon as Bush took office... I guess Bush 'figgerd' that a civil war wasn't to his liking. No, gotta save the ammo to finish his daddy's war in Iraq.


Oops, did I just say that? Well I guess I just don't see another civil war coming anytime soon. (Oh no, I hear them copters... better go get the shotgun.)

Yes, its quite obvious you don't listen to most things.

If you knew what you were talking about, you would know the Black Helicopter crowd was worried about Bush I, the new world order, and the UN, long before Clinton came onto the radar.

Or maybe we just had real problems with deal with and fringe nuts weren't getting press.

Gee whiz, aren't you the little flamer today? Perhaps you'd like it better on my block list?

Why don't we all calm down before some mod somewhere has to excercise modly powers?

Because that would truly suck.

Wow,

There are as many votes to conquor Canada as North Korea.

Looks like Diefenbaker was right after all.

Heh sorry but politics does get me a bit worked up since it does affect me directly, unlike say sports.

When I see grossly uninformed people spouting off about which they know nothing it gets me a bit upset.

I do try to be nice :)

Where the USA option ?

I don't want to conquer any country, I just want to knock down all of the dictatorships and give the populace some real representation in their government. Most people are not necessarily evil, but they have limited ways to act out. But I do have to ask the people who voted against the U.S. Is that really what you want? Do you want to see our noses bloodied and our country torn down? I am asking you to answer honestly because even though I read a lot, and follow the news, I am still an American. I don't want your rants about how George Bush pisses you off, I just want to know if you really, truly, think the best thing for the world is for us to be crushed and sent home bloody. For instance, even though France has massive economic ties with Iraq, and that is why they blocked us at every turn in the U.N., I still do not believe that that is a good reason to go to war with them. Talk like that to me is foolish and nonsensical. France is a democracy and they can make their own decisions. On the other hand, if America had a change of leadership during the next election, and a more diplomatic president was elected, would you change your opinion of America?

I would much prefer ther NOT be another war thank you very much. Actually i think we should bomb texas...they have oil after all. Then we should declare war on domestic terrorists like the kkk and then the militia groups that harbor guys like Timothy Mcveigh.

Lawrence of Arabia was WWI.

You're right. We hear about Palestinian extremists who have gained greater sympathy and support from the community as the situation escalates and other avenues of protest dissapear...which is the goal of the extremists who have been able to manipulate the situation to where the majority of Palestinians might let their sympathies drift toward extremist views due to lack of percieved options. Its like that recent poll said, most support suicide bombings but would also like both sides to move to peace if possible.

However, we don't tend to hear about the Israelis doing the same because they have a recognized state aparatus doing this. We don't hear about Israel's support of human right violating militias in Lebannon etc...because it makes them look bad. While I agree that Israel is a little more careful about trying to keep the civillian casualties down since they have a greater understanding of how to look good internationally than some dumbfuck Islamic psychos who have been able to use this last intifada to shore up support do, that doesn't mean that Israel doesn't torture etc...etc...often without good proof. Nor does it explain away collective punishment acts that are against the geneva convention (such as destroying the homes of suicide bombers etc...), economic discrimination and abuse, the movement of new settlers into land that was the west bank etc...etc...

Quote:

We then hear a proud proclamation of responsibility by a Palestinian group, and shortly thereafter we hear about Isreal arresting or killing members of that same group.

Well, who could be against that. Except for the fact that Israel has a bad habit of taking out innocents when they do and not caring....I mean after all they aren't Israelis.

Quote:

Then we hear about how neither side is doing enough for peace, that both are at fault, and the Israelis are just as guilty as Palestinians. In case anyone has drifted off, let me reiterate: Palestinian kills kids Palestinian group gleefully boasts about killing kids Israel defends Observers condemn.

Nothing personal, but whenever someone brings up killing kids or something else along those lines, it always seems to me to be a signal to try and get people listening to shut off their brain and accept all in this kind of 'Won't somebody think about the children' kind of automaton way.

What you've got there is a one sided and totally incomplete representation of what you think the debate should be, carefully crafted to lead people to the inevitable conclusion that you are right. Put that way, who could disagree with what you come up with, but since that representation is fundamentally wrong your conclusions are that much weaker.

Want some example of how they are wrong....well, there are too man. Here's a sample.

Palestinians do not kill kids. Radical religious groups that have some active support and a unfortunately high amount of tacit support or sympathy within the larger community (mostly during periods where peace seems impossible) kill a number of people with sucide bombings. These are civillians and far too often include children.

Quote:

Moral relativism on such a scale is truly disturbing, people. Those who voted "Israel" in the above poll desparately need to acknowledge two basic moral truths: wanton, indiscriminate murder of civilians is wrong, self defense is right. Got that?

Got what? Both sides are defending themselves in different manners...although I agree that since suicide bombings began with this recent intifada that Israel's tactics are preferred. Why don't we arm the Palestinians as well as the Israelis and see if they can afford the kind of more precise strikes and attacks against military targets that the Israelis can?