Food Eater Lad

http://washingtontimes.com/upi-break...0344-5035r.htm

BAGHDAD, Iraq, Sept. 24 (UPI) -- Nearly two-thirds of Baghdad residents say the removal of Saddam Hussein was worth the hardships they have endured, a report said Wednesday.

Despite the collapse of government and civic institutions, looting and violence and shortages of water and electricity, 67 percent of 1,178 Iraqis told a Gallup survey team within five years, their lives will be better than before the U.S.-led invasion.



Too bad the liberal press wants us to think that we are hated, and that we are not making progress. The fact that Bush did the right thing, and helping the IRaqis scares the shit out of them.

Zeld2.0

Funny FEL when you consider that the 'liberals' bring them up and the conservatives are the first to shoot down the polls! (say on ratings, opinions, etc.)

I don't think anyone here wants to go debating polls again.

MuadDib

The flaws with these kinds of pollings are obvious. First off, it's only among the Baghdad population. Second, this is a population that is historically prone to agreement with those in power. They have been raised to not question those in authority or risk death. Third, gallup polling mostly targets English speaking people and those with telephones. Obviously, these sorts would be in a more likely position to concede to American actions than former Iraqi.

This certainly isn't to say that Iraq isn't better off without Hussein or that the conclusions of the study are wrong. It is to say that the study is internally invalid. What's more the "liberals" problem with the action in Iraq is not that they are worse off than they were under Hussein, but rather that our president lied and our soldier died. Our government deceived us and circumvented established democratic means of action (both domestically and internationally) in removing Hussein. The problem is not so much that Iraqi freedoms are lessened because of our action, but that our nation's legitimacy and our political freedoms were.

__________________
"The courts that first rode the warhorse of virtual representation into battle on the res judicata front invested their steed with near-magical properties." ~27 F.3d 751

maximusveritas

Just to add to what's already been said, the title of this topic is a gross misrepresentation of the actual results of the survey.
The only real positive stat given is that 67% of Iraqis believe that "within five years, their lives will be better than before the U.S.-led invasion."
The question is structured so as to illicit a positive response. Most people want to believe their lives will be better in the future, no matter what.
Plus, it has absolutely nothing to do with the job the US is doing.

Spartak

The other third don't have a gun to their head.

badum-pssh.

Thanks I'll be here all night.

But seriously. Maybe the Iraqis do think that within five years their lives will improve, as maybe now the sanctions can be lifted and more foreign investment can come in. Especially without the fear of their capital being bombed in the no-fly zone.

As well as perhaps in five years setting up some sort of democratic Iraqi regime.

Although it seems a bit idealist that Iraq will improve greatly, but who knows.

__________________
I can read your mind... looking at you... I can read your mind...

Conclamo Ludus

No news is good news.

__________________
Lord, have mercy on my wicked soul
I wouldn't mistreat you baby, for my weight in gold.
-Son House, Death Letter Blues

Sparhawk

How about:

The other third are trying to kill us?

Don't forget to tip your waitress.

Food Eater Lad

So is anyone going to argue that ain five years Iraq will be worse?

rgr22j

While I agree that the poll is virtually worthless (though it is nice to hear some of the good news slipping past the media filter for once), I have to take some exception to your reasoning. First, the Baghdad (and Tikrit) populations ought to be less receptive, not more, as would be indicated by the number of hostile actions against the US. It would follow that the polling would be vastly higher if taken in, say, the Kurdish north. The further from the Sunni Triangle, the more positive the response.

Second, I think it's an extremely racist statement to say it's a population that is historically prone to agreement with those in power. It's like you are comparing these people to lemmings, mere cattle that meekly follow the one with the prod. There were many Iraqis who bravely risked death and questioned authority. Take it from me, whose home country was under military rule for decades. Just because we were raised not to question the Party does not mean we didn't. Many of us were wrongly imprisoned, or tortured, or worse, executed, but that didn't stop us. Historically prone to agreement, my arse. Just because we and my Iraqi compatriots (I refuse to say "comrades") in oppression were unable to overthrow our oppressors does not mean we agreed with them. Those under military rule don't usually suffer from Stockholm Syndrome.

Third, the article makes no mention that it was conducted by telephone; it was performed by a "survey team" and barring further information I think we should hold off before assuming it was conducted in English over the telephone.

I respect your opinion, though I disagree. What is it with the repetition of the "Bush lied" myth? I've debunked that myth twice now and it's getting old. This is old news, capped off by the original accuser retracting his accusations in front of the whole British government just this past week. I'm resigned to believing that it's going to last as long as the long-debunked myth that "Bush stole the election."



(I meant the LOL smilie, but it doesn't look as good!)

I would. We don't know for sure (there's always the possibility we make a misstep somewhere). I tend to think it wouldn't get worse, but you never know. Maybe $87 billion isn't enough and the US citizenry refuses to fork over more. Maybe Bush loses the election and the next president pulls the US out of Iraq, only to have Hussein come back to power with a receptive UN eager to undo the changes brought about by the US. It's getting better, but we're in no way close to the finish line.

-- Alvin

EDIT: Changed "compatriots" to "Iraqi compatriots," which is what I meant.

james t kirk

Yeah, BUT, in the same poll something like 98% of Iraqis say that the US should get the hell out of Iraq NOW.

Food Eater Lad

James,

I dont see that part. Can you post it?

Stare At The Sun

Those who were asked, were probably asked by military people, holding m16, with 3 hummers in the background w/ .50 cal's on top, and a few tanks in the distance, wouldnt you say yes?

Either that, or its a total sham, and they are manipulating the media to get more international support, but we wouldnt do that...would we...

Food Eater Lad

Or they were asked by media men without guns and its true. Imagine that.

Zeld2.0

Or its a goddamn poll and polls are always shot down regardless.

Personally I suggest a trip to Iraq yourself to see it.

And may I offer you a nice automatic rifle.

Nizzle

Oh, please. This is the Washington Times. They are known to be uncredible.

They count on people not realizing that it's not either the Washington Post nor the New York Times. Dirty trick, I can't believe how many people fall for it.

Next?

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Nizzle

Dragonlich

Oh sure, the Iraqi people can't possibly be happy that their former dictator has been kicked from power, and that they now *finally* have a chance to grow as a people and as a nation. They have to be be angry at Bush because he invaded their country over WMDs that obviously weren't there. Bush lied, therefore the Iraqis must prefer Saddam's Iraq over the current and future Iraq. And of course, we know exactly what's happening in Iraq, because we see the same bad news every day, which is obviously an indication that everything is going wrong there; just like the many reports of murders, robberies and racial problems are an indication of total chaos and anarchy in the USA...

(/bullshit mode)

Food Eater Lad

It was conducted byt the Zagrov company, not the NEW YORK TIMES. The times reported it, not did the survey.

So the survey was done by a non military group, that was independant of the newspapers.

rogue49

Has nothing to do with "liberal"
It has to do with the media only wanting to most "interesting" news.

That means, death, destruction & controversy.

They have lost all perspective on reality.

Xell101

ONe thing that is fundamentally stupid with many arguments is that even is we were in Iraq for imperialistic purposes, would you disagree with USA > Saddam?

I think it is a sad sad day for society when the news media stops being about the news but for the ratings (Like all those shows trying to be socially relevant, or MTV), that day was sometime in the 70s.

Of course they don't have a gun to their head, the turned it around! *silence ensues*

Conclamo Ludus

Its amazing how nobody really cares what the Iraqi people think. Are there any other polls? Can anyone link to a poll that refutes this so we can assume that the truth lies somewhere inbetween? Its one thing to dismiss this as BS, but until there is something to hold it up against, how can you rightfully do that? Of course, it would certainly be a disaster for a lot of people if the Iraqis are happy with being liberated. It would be even worse, if the rebuilding went smoothly. Personally, until I can weigh this against something else, I'll be optimistic and hope it is true.

__________________
Lord, have mercy on my wicked soul
I wouldn't mistreat you baby, for my weight in gold.
-Son House, Death Letter Blues

Arc101

Ok that made me laugh. Now if the two thirds of Iraqis try and stop the other third from blowing up everything and shooting anything that moves, then maybe I'll beleive the poll !