Children as young as 13 held at guatanamo.
 

I just heard this on abc's world news tonight, and havnet found a link on this yet, but they said that at least 4 kids ages 13-16 are being held in guatanamo bay prison w/o access to their family, lawyer, or trial.

i think that holding adults there in the first place is wrong, this is just out of my mind.

they kept quiet about this till now, and that's just WRONG!



in US justice system, we wouldnt even think about puttng a kid in the same facility w/ an adult.

this is just wrong!

And if a 13 year old gang banger holds a Lorinco .25 to your head that is wrong too.

Children are used as soldiers all over the world for a good reason. They have no concept of their mortality and are unafraid of death. They are also naive, a quality frequently shared by young people all over the world.

Fortunately, reality sets in as people get older.

If you'll look back at military history you'll find that any military would use 13-15 year olds if they had the choice - they know they are invincible and can't be hurt. Combine that inane belief with manical fanatic religious belief and you basically have created a pitbull with aids - Have you read the 'The Boys From Brazil"?

but that's not what i'm complaining about.

i'm complaining about the fact that the US is holding these kids w/ adults in a remote area.

and these kids have no access to parents, no reprenatation, no trials

...they also have no rights. They're not U.S. citizens, and they're not on U.S soil. If they're suspected of terrorism, then they belong where they are. And I really doubt these fuckers need mommy or daddy to hold their hands.

come on.......at that age, you really think they knew right from wrong?

so, as long as they're not citizens of a nation, and they're not on the nation's soil, they dont have any rights?

remember, the constitution say "all men" and never mentioned citizens.

When you join an organization that targets primarily, innocent people, women and children you forfeit your rights as far as I'm concerned. If you want to ignore the rules you can't expect to benefit from them when its convenient for you.

but look @ the age.

you really think a 13 yr old would in his right mind join a terroristic organization?

Who said they are in their right minds, not me. I think the lot of them are lunatics. They have been brainwashed their entire life. Would someone in their right mind blow themselves to bits. It's happening daily over there. Bunch of friggin nutcases.

ok, let's think about what we would do if a US child was in a situation like this.



hm.......how about a school shooter? this kid goes to school ,shoots some kids, and teachers. surrenders.

kid's gonna get a really good attorney, and everyone would be talking about how troubled he was. they'd send him to counseling. they'd send him to a juvy.

that's it. look @ what these kids are going thru, and as far as we know, they havent committed any crimes!

I wouldn't be talking about how troubled he was. I would be talking about how if he was old enough to take a life,hes old enough to suffer the consequences. Lock em up and leave him there if you can't get a death penalty.

Children are evil. Spend time with some.

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Ummmm... yeah. Actually I do. Look at the statistics for inner city gangs for example-- Most of those kids are in middle school when they join. And no sense of morality? At 13 years old? Give me a break! I've been taught not to hit when I was about 2, much less -shoot- anybody.

There's a common misconception that 13-year olds do not know what they do, and cannot be responsible.

This *might* be true for kids growing up a nice, loving family in the middle of Nebraska, without anything to worry about... but it's not true for inner-city gang members, and certainly not for kids from Afghanistan, who have seen more war, bloodshed and destruction than you could possibly imagine. One grows up pretty damn quickly in those circumstances.

As for keeping them in the same facility... well, you might want to put them in a seperate area, all alone; I doubt they'd enjoy that idea.

(Oh, and last year, two kids disappeared; they were Dutch, from Moroccan descent, both about 15 years. They apparently tried to go to Chechnya, to fight in the holy war there. Of course, they failed - it was too cold for the poor kids. One of them still wants to go, though.)

I don't care about the age. The fucked up thing is that they are being held without any sort of a trial. It's possible that they are just kids at the wrong place at the wrong time but noone will ever find out because "those terrorist bastards have no rights".

One more thing I don't get is where the US are holding the regular army prisoners? There must have been an army in Afghanistan, they can't have been protected by Al Qaeda.

Actually, since some prisoners were already released a while ago, these people do have a chance of getting out if they're innocent. Just don't go assuming they are just because they're kids... If they are innocent, they'll probably tell the US investigators all they know, and they'll be released quickly; if they shut up, or don't cooperate, there's a good chance they're either stupid, or guilty. (And please remember that this is not a normal criminal we're talking about, with all the associated rights. They do *not* have the right to remain silent; well, they do, but it'd be stupid.)

And the "regular army" were the Taliban. They're either still imprisoned in Afghanistan, or were released after most of the fighting ended... or they're still fighting a guerilla war.

as far as we know, these people havent commited a single crime.

Do you even belive in any type of punishment?

Just read what BoCo said again if you want to know how I feel about it.

lol, so just cuz they're "SUSPECTED" of terrorism, we can hold 'em indefinately?

i dont think anyone has seen any proof of this suspicion


you know that foreign countries can use this same deal against americans right?

as long as they "suspect" an american of terrorism, hold 'em up w/o access indefinately? and release no proof of this "suspicion"

Probably be another one them from the halls of Montezuma to the shores of Kuwait City thingies take place in about a Detroit minute.

On second thought Dude... Have you seen anything anywhere inquiring into their condition or asking for any of them back?

yup, pakistan has requested that it's citizens being detained be released into pakistan.

Dude... there *are* British and US nationals in jails all over the middle-east, suspected of terrorism. They're supposed to have blown up their fellow westerners, usually over illegal alcohol smuggling. Naturally, the evidence wasn't exactly good, but forced confessions (torture) got them convicted.

Now... do you believe that the US would do the same to these terror suspects? Pick up random Muslims and throw them in jail? Nope... to be send to Cuba, you'd need to be into some seriously suspicious shit. That you haven't seen any proof does not mean there is none.

Even if there isn't any firm evidence, it doesn't mean they are innocent: terrorists aren't really known for leaving lots of clues about their crimes, you know. That'd be stupid, and stupid terrorists would be dead, instead of incarcerated.

(oh, and I doubt these Pakistanis would like to go back to Pakistan. The conditions in Guantanamo bay are waaaaay better than in a Pakistani prison...)

You didn't answer my question.

Do you belive in any kind of punishment?

definately, but only once you are proved guilty.

so, are you saying that US should lower itself to the standards of these countries?

i'm pretty sure that there are lots of countries that have NOT done this to US nationals.

So let's just say these kids are terrorists and killed some people or were about to do something, but were stopped. Would you be fine with the fact that they are in Quantanamo?

depends.

1) they have a fair trial and they're guilty.

2) they're kept in area of the building seperate from where adults are being held

3) given all rights of a prisoner.

Then they should have stayed in their own country.

i agree with the_dude, if they're 13-15 then they shouldn't be holding them, they should be helping them get on track and giving them a trial. everyone should have a trial anyway, i mean, shit, how do we know these kids are terrorists anyway?

another thing that makes me sick is 13-15 year old kids being tried as adults. especially those ones recently that were bribed by one of their mothers to kill her boss. shit. punishment = good, tried as adults = bad.

i got off-subject, but come on!

Looks like they are being treated pretty good to me.http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/americas/04/26/gitmo.juvenile.detainees.ap/index.html

link's broken

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The_Dude will still find something wrong with that. http://www.boomspeed.com/sixate/icon_rolleyes.gif

ok, all of those things have been said by the US military, who didnt even admit holding these kids till now.

none of these have been independantly verified, no human rights workers have been present there.

and cant you see this, they're IN JAIL!

how can the US military say that they're better than they would be in afghanistan?

they dont have any friends here, no parents, no relatives, no social interaction.

Dude, what if I paid to ship your ass there and you saw it all for yourself? Then I'll pay to ship your ass to Afghanastan. Let you live there for about 6 months and tell me where you'd rather be. Would you stop your whining then? I can answer that myself. No you wouldn't. I sometimes wonder if you like anything that the US has ever done or if you even have an American bone in your body.

You cant save everyone.

Those conditions don't sound to bad to me, especially considering they -don't- have to be that nice to them.

"Amnesty International called for their immediate release. Spokesman Alistair Hodgett said the United States was violating the Convention on the Rights of the Child that states "every child deprived of his or her liberty shall have the right to prompt access to legal and other appropriate assistance."

Hodgett said the United States signed the treaty in 1995, but Johnson said he understood it was never ratified. "

And they -are- proven dangerous--

"The chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff defended the detentions, saying the boys "are very dangerous. Some have killed, some have stated that they're going to kill again.....The Toronto Globe and Mail this week identified a Canadian teenager at Guantanamo Bay as the attacker who threw a grenade that killed a U.S. sergeant in Afghanistan in July."

Still want a kid like that running around american soil, or in Afghanistan free to come back?

ok, this is just as pointless as saying "go live on the moon where there's no oxygen if you don't wanna live in afghanistan!"
shite. afghanistan has problems and while the us doesn't have as many by a long shot, the us still has them and, being us citizens, it's our right and responsibility to make them known and try to improve them.

oh, yeah, that's nice.