US troops shoot up wedding. AGAIN? - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Xell101 · 09-20-2003, 02:01 AM

I don't know.

homerhop · 09-20-2003, 02:05 AM

The Brits have had a good 30 years or so of training here in N.Ireland on civilian patrols. Have made some major fuckups but have learned from them and learned what certain actions will result in.
Think its time some American Generals asked them a few questions on how its done.

Food Eater Lad · 09-20-2003, 08:49 AM

Yes, we didnt have any success building Japan or Germany into prosperous nations.

filtherton · 09-20-2003, 09:28 AM

Quote:

We know he used to have it, lots of it, now all the real nasty WMD is mysteriously gone and he claimed to never have had it.

Most americans "know" that saddam was a part of 9/11. Where is your info coming from? How much WMD? What kind of WMD? If there is so much proof, where is all the proof?

Quote:

I'm not sure how to respond this since all that I come up with needs to be redefined for each chunk, your thoughts are rather convoluted.

Sorry if i was hard to follow. To clarify:

You believe that it is justified for us to attack them first. You don't believe that the 9/11 hijackers were justified in attacking us first. That seems odd to me.

Quote:

Last month, a U.S. soldier shot dead award-winning Reuters cameraman Mazen Dana on the outskirts of Baghdad. The U.S. Army said the soldier mistook Dana's camera for a rocket-propelled grenade launcher.

How does that even happen? This sounds like plain homicidal carelessness. Granted, im not in a warzone, but the difference between a camera and an RPG launcher should be evident. WTF is going on over there?

dimbulb · 09-20-2003, 10:05 AM

I think that its all too easy for us, here at home, very comfortably sitting in front of our computers, sipping our drinks, and eating our snacks, to pass judgement on the soldiers out in the field.

I'm pretty sure the Rules of Engagement require soldiers to make positive identification before engaging. That's just common sense. If you fail to follow these rules, friendly fire might result. Witness what happened in Afghanistan when allied troops were on the wrong end of several 500lb bombs. Not a pretty sight.

On the other hand, in the heat of combat, and with jittery nerves, its easy to make wrong judgements in the heat of combat. We have the aid of 20/20 hindsight. RPGs are fired from the shoulder. They have a rounded looking tube in front. Cameras are placed on the shoulder. They too have a rounded tube in front. Add in distance, nerves, random attacks, and a potentially hostile crowd. It's very easy to make a mistake in these circumstances.

Some of the comments I read here, make me think that some Americans think that the purpose of intervention in Iraq is solely to "crush" the Iraqis. Kill them all, humiliate them. What do you think is causing all this seething undercurrent of resentment against America in the Middle East? I like the principles on which America was founded, and I generally like Americans. But sometimes, sensitivity is needed.

You are operating in someone else's country. Granted, you are in control for the time being, but eventually you will need to be returning their country back to them. You are caretakers of Iraq. Note the word CARETAKERS. not overlords, not conquerers. Caretakers. The real battle is to win the hearts of the Iraqis, and this will not be achieved by reckless behavior. Kill one Iraqi accidentally, and you've made 50 more enemies. The goodwill of the Iraqi people have been squandered thus far. Where is the recontruction? where are the basic services? where is the protection and security that are the rights of the ordinary men and women? Why are women's rights worse now under the American "occupation" than under Saddam Hussein??

homerhop · 09-20-2003, 03:05 PM

"You are operating in someone else's country. Granted, you are in control for the time being, but eventually you will need to be returning their country back to them. You are caretakers of Iraq. Note the word CARETAKERS. not overlords, not conquerers. Caretakers. The real battle is to win the hearts of the Iraqis, and this will not be achieved by reckless behavior. Kill one Iraqi accidentally, and you've made 50 more enemies. The goodwill of the Iraqi people have been squandered thus far. Where is the recontruction? where are the basic services? where is the protection and security that are the rights of the ordinary men and women? Why are women's rights worse now under the American "occupation" than under Saddam Hussein??
"
Its good to see at least one person has a good grasp of the situation

Zeld2.0 · 09-20-2003, 11:42 PM

Man I just love when people bring up Germany and Japan!

Cept they always forget the base that Germany and Japan already had in industry, cept they forget the fact that Germany and Japan were much closer to the U.S., cept that Germany and Japan didn't have neighbors of the same ethnicity willing to fight

Different background, time, location - different story

healyk · 09-22-2003, 08:28 PM

How about the fact that the Brits are in southern Iraq (which is predominantly shiite and anti-Saddam) while the US forces must deal with the most pro-Saddam regions of the country?

homerhop · 09-23-2003, 01:15 AM

that may be so but the fact still remain that they have to do patrols the same as the US and deal with the same threats

Xell101 · 09-23-2003, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Filtherton

Quote:

Where is your info coming from?

The UN from before the first inspections started, we had also given him some weapons later declared no-nos, he denied having those anymore although he provided no evidence to support that claim like he did with upwards of 90% of his claims pertaining to the non-existence of the prohibited weapons.

Quote:

You believe that it is justified for us to attack them first. You don't believe that the 9/11 hijackers were justified in attacking us first. That seems odd to me.

...you gotta be shitten me...can you explain that into further detail so I know what to adress?

Quote:

Granted, im not in a warzone,

*ding ding*

Quote:

that may be so but the fact still remain that they have to do patrols the same as the US and deal with the same threats

As previously stated, different region, different people, different setiments within the general populus, different level of threat.

Pacifier · 09-23-2003, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Food Eater Lad
Yes, we didnt have any success building Japan or Germany into prosperous nations.

Number of countries to which the U.S. sent troops between 1900 and 1993 for the purpose of establishing democracy : 14
Number that were democracies ten years after the withdrawal of U.S. forces : 4
Source: Carnegie Endowment for International Peace (Washington)
(http://www.harpers.org/harpers-index...03-08-01&src=1)

i guess it was beginners luck...

homerhop · 09-23-2003, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Xell101

As previously stated, different region, different people, different setiments within the general populus, different level of threat.

Ah yes the grass is always greener on far away hills. The results of being shot is the same no matter where you are and the threat of it still has the same mental results on troops.
IMO the way you deal with people will show in their behaviour towards you

filtherton · 09-23-2003, 02:04 PM

Not sure what you want me to explain? How i came to that conclusion, or why it seems odd?

09-20-2003, 02:05 AM	#42 (permalink)
homerhop Insane Location: ÉIRE	The Brits have had a good 30 years or so of training here in N.Ireland on civilian patrols. Have made some major fuckups but have learned from them and learned what certain actions will result in. Think its time some American Generals asked them a few questions on how its done. __________________ its evolution baby

09-20-2003, 03:05 PM	#46 (permalink)
homerhop Insane Location: ÉIRE	"You are operating in someone else's country. Granted, you are in control for the time being, but eventually you will need to be returning their country back to them. You are caretakers of Iraq. Note the word CARETAKERS. not overlords, not conquerers. Caretakers. The real battle is to win the hearts of the Iraqis, and this will not be achieved by reckless behavior. Kill one Iraqi accidentally, and you've made 50 more enemies. The goodwill of the Iraqi people have been squandered thus far. Where is the recontruction? where are the basic services? where is the protection and security that are the rights of the ordinary men and women? Why are women's rights worse now under the American "occupation" than under Saddam Hussein?? " Its good to see at least one person has a good grasp of the situation __________________ its evolution baby

09-23-2003, 01:15 AM	#49 (permalink)
homerhop Insane Location: ÉIRE	that may be so but the fact still remain that they have to do patrols the same as the US and deal with the same threats __________________ its evolution baby

09-20-2003, 02:01 AM	#41 (permalink)
Xell101 Junkie	I don't know.

09-20-2003, 08:49 AM	#43 (permalink)
Food Eater Lad Banned	Yes, we didnt have any success building Japan or Germany into prosperous nations.

09-20-2003, 10:05 AM	#45 (permalink)
dimbulb Riiiiight........	I think that its all too easy for us, here at home, very comfortably sitting in front of our computers, sipping our drinks, and eating our snacks, to pass judgement on the soldiers out in the field. I'm pretty sure the Rules of Engagement require soldiers to make positive identification before engaging. That's just common sense. If you fail to follow these rules, friendly fire might result. Witness what happened in Afghanistan when allied troops were on the wrong end of several 500lb bombs. Not a pretty sight. On the other hand, in the heat of combat, and with jittery nerves, its easy to make wrong judgements in the heat of combat. We have the aid of 20/20 hindsight. RPGs are fired from the shoulder. They have a rounded looking tube in front. Cameras are placed on the shoulder. They too have a rounded tube in front. Add in distance, nerves, random attacks, and a potentially hostile crowd. It's very easy to make a mistake in these circumstances. Some of the comments I read here, make me think that some Americans think that the purpose of intervention in Iraq is solely to "crush" the Iraqis. Kill them all, humiliate them. What do you think is causing all this seething undercurrent of resentment against America in the Middle East? I like the principles on which America was founded, and I generally like Americans. But sometimes, sensitivity is needed. You are operating in someone else's country. Granted, you are in control for the time being, but eventually you will need to be returning their country back to them. You are caretakers of Iraq. Note the word CARETAKERS. not overlords, not conquerers. Caretakers. The real battle is to win the hearts of the Iraqis, and this will not be achieved by reckless behavior. Kill one Iraqi accidentally, and you've made 50 more enemies. The goodwill of the Iraqi people have been squandered thus far. Where is the recontruction? where are the basic services? where is the protection and security that are the rights of the ordinary men and women? Why are women's rights worse now under the American "occupation" than under Saddam Hussein??

09-20-2003, 11:42 PM	#47 (permalink)
Zeld2.0 Cherry-pickin' devil's advocate Location: Los Angeles	Man I just love when people bring up Germany and Japan! Cept they always forget the base that Germany and Japan already had in industry, cept they forget the fact that Germany and Japan were much closer to the U.S., cept that Germany and Japan didn't have neighbors of the same ethnicity willing to fight Different background, time, location - different story

09-22-2003, 08:28 PM	#48 (permalink)
healyk Upright	How about the fact that the Brits are in southern Iraq (which is predominantly shiite and anti-Saddam) while the US forces must deal with the most pro-Saddam regions of the country?

09-23-2003, 02:04 PM	#53 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	Not sure what you want me to explain? How i came to that conclusion, or why it seems odd?