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View Poll Results: Vote For California Governor Now. | |||
Cruz Bustamante "D" | 27 | 28.42% | |
Arnold Schwarzenegger "R" | 41 | 43.16% | |
Larry Flynt "U" | 8 | 8.42% | |
Tom McClintock "R" | 5 | 5.26% | |
Arianna Huffington "I" | 4 | 4.21% | |
Peter Ueberroth "R" | 3 | 3.16% | |
Peter Camejo "Green" | 6 | 6.32% | |
Audie Bock "D" | 1 | 1.05% | |
Voters: 95. You may not vote on this poll |
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09-03-2003, 10:57 PM | #41 (permalink) |
What day is it?
Location: Downey, CA
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Ariana wants to fuck with prop 13 and raise property taxes for businesses. That is reason enough not to vote for her. Prop 13 needs to be left alone. If anything, property taxes should be halved for first time home buyers. Her plan though is to increase property taxes for businesses who have been in place over a long period of time. Can you say "lets give companies another reason to move out of California."
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09-04-2003, 11:49 AM | #43 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Right here
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But here's a thought: thousands of businesses come here for the climate--not the low taxes. The ones running for the lowest taxes actually relocate their shit offshore. However, places like Qwest (which doesn't even do business in Southern California) have their HQs ten blocks from the beach. Guess what: I pay a huge premium to live here and so do you. If I didn't love it so much I would move--I don't live here for the low rent and anyone who has lived here will never say different. If you want low rent you move to Oregon. I willingly moved back to my homestate despite the fact that I would have to pay three times the rent. Of course, when I buy a house, I'll likely do it up north--for now I'm living my heart out in a mediteranean climate with some of the best bikinis and women in the states. If the businesses want to skip town because they don't want to pay their fair share of taxes then fuck em. I guarantee that corporations will still come here and will still pay "higher" taxes because people do it all the fucking time--because we love it here. If you don't like it you can pack up and move to France, or maybe Texas, I hear the repubs are fucking shit up over there quite nicely . And while you're lathering up your saddle I'll be waxing my board. edit: I was just ribbing you about moving out--kind of a spoof on what usually comes from the other side when an opposing opinion is stated. But for clarification: I'm not necessarily voting for Arianna but you need to read up on her policy statement. You are misinterpreting her plan. It isn't aimed at businesses that have been here a long time. New businesses are acquring property through mergers and odd sleight of hand and managing to protect their new property from being reassessed at current market value. Businesses that have been here for long periods of time aren't subject to reassessment, AFAIK. Last edited by smooth; 09-04-2003 at 12:03 PM.. |
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09-04-2003, 12:22 PM | #44 (permalink) |
The sky calls to us ...
Super Moderator
Location: CT
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I feel that, while I have no real right to be telling people on the other coast what to do, I should throw in some facts on Huffington.
She is running in an election to replace someone who is being replaced mainly due to budget issues. She owns a $7M house, yet last year paid less than $800 of federal income tax. I wouldn't want her trying to get my state out of a budget crisis. I also think that we should put Davis' head on a ple with the Enron executives who helped to create an fictional energy crisis last year in order to divert more state money into their pockets by exporting energy to Nevada and buying it back from Enron subsidiaries and affiliates at much higher than the allowed price for in-state purchases. |
09-04-2003, 12:26 PM | #45 (permalink) | |
God-Hating Liberal
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
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Nizzle |
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09-04-2003, 12:32 PM | #46 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Right here
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Seriously, though, while I was following her line of reasoning that what she did was perfectly acceptable under the tax code (being that writers' incomes are cyclical--I'll hold off on final judgement until next year when she files taxes on this year's income which, by her accounts, has been profitable) I have run that argument by a few people who I knew to be non-supportive of her platform. At least one person stated that, while 'legal', he could do the same thing. That is, he (my prof) could write off his losses to avoid paying taxes but that certainly wasn't 'right', in his opinion. I agree with that sentiment. I respect Bustamante's world view. By all accounts he worked as a migrant worker (pciking cotton and peaches) and his family (brothers and sisters) worked hard over the summer to kick off his political background (they worked to help pay for his living expenses while he worked under a mentor program for a politician). IIRC, he just received his bachelors. While I may not agree with all his policies or all of his actions I do believe he is the closest candidate that shares my world view. No matter what the experiences of the other candidates none of them can ever really look at life with the same lense that working class people have--despite what they say or even how hard they may actually try. |
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09-04-2003, 01:55 PM | #47 (permalink) | ||||||
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Location: Somewhere in Ohio
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Disliking America is not terrorist behavior, but supporting terrorist behavior is! Many people in these countries support it, many do not. We don't have time to figure who is who and I don't care if innocent people are killed. Again, where the fuck did I ever say anything about genocide?! Maybe you're the one who's completely fucking insane because now you are putting words in my mouth. Quote:
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09-04-2003, 09:15 PM | #48 (permalink) | |
Insane
Location: Bay Area
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Is it just because he's a really famous actor? |
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09-05-2003, 09:18 AM | #49 (permalink) | |
Muffled
Location: Camazotz
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it's quiet in here |
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09-05-2003, 01:36 PM | #51 (permalink) | |
Registered User
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
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I'm still waiting for that PM so I can laugh my ass off......... |
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09-05-2003, 05:51 PM | #52 (permalink) | ||||||||||
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Location: Silicon Valley, CA, USA, Earth
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09-05-2003, 05:53 PM | #53 (permalink) | |
Crazy
Location: Silicon Valley, CA, USA, Earth
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In other words, "you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
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Mac "If it's nae Scottish, it's crap! |
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09-05-2003, 06:56 PM | #54 (permalink) |
Registered User
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
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I'm gonna keep this simple. You can put any word you like to think that I've said in my mouth. I don't give a shit. I haven't accused you of saying something that you didn't say. That's about all you're doing with me. Then you chose to not read something that I did say. You make zero sense. I'll give an exaple.
------------------------------------------------------------- I said,"Disliking America is not terrorist behavior, but supporting terrorist behavior is!" You said, "That's nice, dear. Now prove that every Arab supports terrorist behavior. You said it, now back it up." -------------------------------------------------------------- I don't have to back up shit. You just need to open your eyes and read what I fucking said. I said,"Disliking America is not terrorist behavior, but supporting terrorist behavior is! Many people in these countries support it, many do not. Now fucking read the bold part this time and tell me where I said that every Arab supports terrorism...... You can't. So drop your lame bid to call me a racist. Just because you don't like some of the sources I get news from doesn't mean that the shit isn't true. I know what I stand for and I'm proud of that, and I don't care if you like it or not cause I'm sure that these feelings are mutual and we can both agree on that, right? I'm still waiting for that PM.... I'll continue this pissing match if you'd like to..... |
09-05-2003, 08:34 PM | #55 (permalink) | |||||
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Location: Silicon Valley, CA, USA, Earth
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Mac "If it's nae Scottish, it's crap! |
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09-05-2003, 08:46 PM | #56 (permalink) | |
Sir, I have a plan...
Location: 38S NC20943324
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With "Those kids are potential terrorists and the women will potentially raise terrorists.", he is quite obviously refering to "...all the women and children who cheered about 9/11...". Also "The entire Middle East is fucked up and if innocent people have to die to change the way things are done over there then I'm all for it because in the long run it'll be worth it." is very specific in noting that not all people are terrorists, since it assumes innocents. His view is genocidal, not racist. I despise sophistry.
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Fortunato became immured to the sound of the trowel after a while.
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09-05-2003, 08:59 PM | #57 (permalink) |
Crazy
Location: Silicon Valley, CA, USA, Earth
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debaser: You're entitled to your interpretation, of course. I would encourage you, however, to reread the course of the "debate", as well as the other thread (from which some source material was referenced) - it was entitled "Bush should know better than this." My contention is that by singling out the Middle East, he's gone from genocide to racism. HTH.
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Mac "If it's nae Scottish, it's crap! |
09-05-2003, 09:11 PM | #59 (permalink) |
Crazy
Location: Silicon Valley, CA, USA, Earth
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Myriad? I think not. I would contend that he's singling out the dominant - or "most populous", if you prefer - race of the Middle East - that being Arabs.
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Mac "If it's nae Scottish, it's crap! Last edited by ctembreull; 09-05-2003 at 09:17 PM.. |
09-05-2003, 09:44 PM | #60 (permalink) |
Sir, I have a plan...
Location: 38S NC20943324
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Well, we are both using the wrong terminology. The predominant "race" in the ME is caucasian, and judging by his photo, so is sixate. I very much doubt he wants to kill all caucasians. Therefore, since you bring up arabs, we are talking about ethnic groups. And since we are talking about ethnic groups, you should know that Arabs are no more populous than Turks or Persians, and only slightly moreso than Kurds. Lets not forget the Jews while we are at it.
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Fortunato became immured to the sound of the trowel after a while.
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09-05-2003, 10:05 PM | #61 (permalink) |
Kiss of Death
Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow
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Why not just target Islam as a whole??? It is not a peaceful religon, It's followers are not peaceful, and they are a thorn in the side of western civilization.
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To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition. |
09-05-2003, 10:29 PM | #62 (permalink) | |
Crazy
Location: Silicon Valley, CA, USA, Earth
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I didn't make the world. I just live in it. Where I come from, sixate's attitude is called racism. I don't detect in your posts any argument with that conclusion - only with the wording.
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Mac "If it's nae Scottish, it's crap! |
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09-05-2003, 10:34 PM | #63 (permalink) | ||
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Location: Silicon Valley, CA, USA, Earth
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Mac "If it's nae Scottish, it's crap! |
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09-06-2003, 03:02 AM | #64 (permalink) | |
Sir, I have a plan...
Location: 38S NC20943324
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I think sixates idea is one of the stupidest I have heard in a long time, but his anger flows from a frustration with dealing with the region, not a hatred of all the people there. All I asked is that you be accurate, but you use words improperly, pad your statements with "I would contend", and "My contention is". My reasoning was perfectly sound, my statements were not fallacious, and you could find no answer to my question. If I am mistaken then please answer it, which ethnic group does he hate? As for your well deserved trouncing of Mojo_PeiPeis post: Islam has a major problem, it is being hijacked by extremist who are commiting violent acts on an increasingly frequent basis. That is not to say that every Muslim is an extremeist, far from it, but moderate Islam has either been unable or unwilling to deal with this problem to date. I challenge you to show me another religion in the world where young men are so eager to die for any cause (the roaming Mujahedin), or where God is invoked more regularly to justify killing. What has been the predominant religion in every area we have deployed troops to for the past 10 years? I think it is perfectly reasonable to say that Islam is becoming a thorn in the side for the western world, just as it is fair to say the the west is a thorn in the side of Islam (and has been since the crusades). It's just not PC.
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Fortunato became immured to the sound of the trowel after a while.
Last edited by debaser; 09-06-2003 at 03:06 AM.. |
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09-06-2003, 06:01 AM | #65 (permalink) | |
Registered User
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
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The pathetic thing here is you can't drop it. My opinions burn you up soooo bad that you always call me out about shit like this. It's fucking pathetic! Actually, I'm proud that my opinions burn you up so bad that you can't leave this alone. This is getting old and boring. Coninue if you like.... I hope whinning about me makes you feel better.... Maybe you need to get over yourself. I've never asked anyone to agree with my opinions or like them. I just state them. I'm done. |
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09-06-2003, 10:49 AM | #66 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: Right here
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debaser, I'm curious as to your defintion of 'genocide.' My peers have always used it as an act of ethnic or racial killing. That is, genocide, as I understand it, is the act of killing a particular group of people based on racist beliefs.
Whatever else sixate might be, we ought to conclude that he is not Caucasion, despite the avatar, based on his statement that ctembreull's assumption that he was "100% caucasion" was "100% wrong." edit: I'm would also like to point out that your categorization of Middle Easterners as Caucasions doesn't hold traction in either academia (where we argue that race is socially constructed and has no biological foundation) or our culture (where we just recently argued over the merits of 'racial' profiling in regards to paying particular attention to Arabs boarding planes and such--the nation wasn't in a debate ove whether Whites should be scrutinized more closely). The bottom line is that, while you might argue and believe that there are three main 'races' in society, and you might even produce a book or two to support such an assertion, that doesn't change the social reality that our citizens do not believe or conceive of themselves as the same 'race' as Arab peoples. I didn't want to take this thread this far of course but we could discuss racial categories in philosophy, I suppose. We might wonder what prompted you to include sixate (even assuming his avatar is representative of his skin color) in the same racial category as a person of Arabian descent.
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"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann "You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman Last edited by smooth; 09-06-2003 at 11:07 AM.. |
09-06-2003, 03:42 PM | #67 (permalink) | |||||
Sir, I have a plan...
Location: 38S NC20943324
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PS - I saw elsewhere (the bald thread perhaps?) that the avatar is an actual picture of the person in question.
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Fortunato became immured to the sound of the trowel after a while.
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09-06-2003, 04:48 PM | #68 (permalink) |
Registered User
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
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For the record. I never said I was of Arab descent. I can see why a few of you would think that after I reread what I said.... He thought I was 100% white and I'm not. It may not look it, but I do have a lot of Puerto Rican in me. If you'd like to know what percentage I am I'll tell you, but I don't see how that makes a damn bit of difference. I'd post pictures of some people in my family, but I'm sure they don't want their pictures all over the place. I'm sure you can understand that.
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09-06-2003, 04:56 PM | #69 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Right here
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just jibing you. here's the thread I started in philosophy: http://tfproject.org/tfp/showthread....threadid=25969 |
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09-06-2003, 06:04 PM | #71 (permalink) |
Sir, I have a plan...
Location: 38S NC20943324
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Just to clarify, sixate, I called you caucasian, not arab. Arabs are an ethnic group who happen to also be caucasians.
If you were a "racist", which I do not believe you to be, I find it odd that you would hate your own race. And, hey, how about that gubernatorial race in Cali?
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Fortunato became immured to the sound of the trowel after a while.
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09-07-2003, 11:04 PM | #75 (permalink) | |
Kiss of Death
Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow
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Doesn't Bustamante running stand to completly fuck over Davis? You'd think it would confuse voters, do they vote for Davis and risk Ahhnold winning? I think there would be a big split of votes that could really boost Arnold's chances....
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To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition. |
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09-08-2003, 09:23 AM | #76 (permalink) |
Confused Adult
Location: Spokane, WA
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I do want many/all Middle Easterners dead!! I could give a shit less if all of them die. I'll tell you why. If they/any Middle Eastern country had the military power of America they would have blown us to bits a long long time ago. An example needs to be made to change the way things are done. I know my way of dealing with it is extreme, but I don't run things so what I say doesn't really matter now does it?
this statement is sick. what kind of person would want to wipe out, KILL an entire country of people because he doesnt know how to let them live? By your logic we should kill all the americans because we have people like timothy mcveigh or whatnot or the unabomber just running around. By your logic, every american is now a potential terrorist, every mother is now potentially raising a terrorist. People tend to look the other way when the government is saying "THE MIDDLE EASTERNS ARE EVIL!" but american terrorists exist right within every race. making this a heritage/race/descent issue doesnt fly. you think if a group of maybe 10 americans went to china as part of an underground organization, not related to the US government in any way, decided to blow up a few embassies via suicide bombing that it would be FAIR to you or to me that WE will be the ones who suffer the effects of it from china retaliating? The effects of china holding the US Responsible for actions of rogue citizens? hell no. It seems to me the only way people will ever be happy is if thier amount of innocent people who die equal 3 times that of the number of americas innocent people to die. the thing is, fighting over territory, land, countries, nationalities, its all so retarded. people are gonna die in 70-90 years after they come to life as it is. not like all that land will matter to them then. bummer. It really bothers me to see that someone can put another human's life into a light of being trivial. Regardless of race or gender or sexuality or where that person is from, they are still a HUMAN. I wonder when the world will wake up and realize there are only 2 things that require classification. Planet Earth, and Humans. when people introduce the concept of countries and nationalities, it starts introducing the concept of "teams" and when you divide people up like that, they take on a sense of pride in whatever team they are put on. pride seems to give way to people making themselves out to be better than people not of the same "variable" (country, race, gender etc..) if people just realized we are all just sharing the same piece of dirt in space, im sure my 70-90 years of life wont be spent asking everyone "Why has the world gone absolutley mad?" Last edited by Shauk; 09-08-2003 at 09:26 AM.. |
09-08-2003, 03:49 PM | #77 (permalink) |
Registered User
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
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I love how my opinion is soooo fucked up and wrong to others, which I understand why you would think that, but nobody ever gives a solution to the problem..........
BTW, there is a difference between the crazy assholes that run around America and kill Americans....... Terrorists are from many countries, not America, and are funded by Middle Eastern countries. The crazy loonie assholes in America are not a part of the problem we are speaking about. I am all for killing the crazy assholes that kill innocent people in our country also. Your tree hugging theories are great theories that don't work in the real (fucked up) world. I wish it was that easy, but it's not! Never has been and never will. |
09-09-2003, 10:02 PM | #78 (permalink) |
Addict
Location: Wherever I am!
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Getting back to the recall......
Just what did Gray Davis do that was soo oo bad as to need to be recalled anyway? Was it his response to buy electricity for the state to keep rolling blackouts from occurring? Because this is the only real reason I see. It is because of this that the state is in Fiscal problems. But....If he didn't do this there would have been people asking for his head too because they didn't have electricity. However I believe it would have been better if he didn't go ahead and buy the electricity because this would have brought the Enron thing to a head that much faster. As for Arnold he still has no platform and refuses to go to any debate where he has to think (the only debate he is going to has the questions already given to him). Ms. Huffington is living on tax loopholes, but I do like her idea about prop.13 and basing property taxes on the value of the property and the amount you make. Bustamante, wants to put casino's everywhere. I didn't mind the casino thing when I thought they were going to be on existing tribal lands, but now the tribes are buying property and claiming it as tribal land and building casino's. Busatmante supports this and them, in fact his brother is a manager of a casino. Also his support for illegal aliens getting drivers liscences rubs me the wrong way. If they are illegal they should not get ANY services from us. If they want to drive, get medical, dental, and education rights then go the correct way and become a citizen. Next thing we know illegals will be able to vote. I'd rather keep someone I know in office, who has not really done anything wrong, than put someone who we know very little about in office. Besides did we not have an election just less than a year ago. Leave him in office and start campaign now for the next election!
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If ignorance is bliss, then wipe this smile off my face! |
09-13-2003, 04:02 AM | #79 (permalink) | |
Confused Adult
Location: Spokane, WA
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you think killing people based on where they live is the *right* answer? I didn't propose a solution because there isn't one. Oil and water don't mix, you dont even have a reason to try. you just keep the crap in its own containers. the civilized world has no place for violence. but for some reason it repeatedly rears its head. I'm all for the violent people getting thier share as long as its with other violent people.. at least they weed eachother out so the gene pool cleans itself up a little. but I dont think violence will ever evolve its way out of the human behavioral pattern. greed and pride will always lead to violence I suppose. I'm going to bed, because I realize that my opinion, while making me feel fine for stating it, has no impact on the future of humanity. |
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09-15-2003, 12:01 PM | #80 (permalink) |
No. It's not done yet.
Location: sorta kinda phila
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We might have to wait a little longer for an answer....
Fox News Site says.... Appeals Court Postpones Oct. 7 Recall Vote Monday , September 15, 2003 SAN FRANCISCO — Leaving room for the nation's highest court to reverse its decision, a federal appeals court in California blocked the state's gubernatorial recall election scheduled for Oct. 7 and then put an immediate stay on its decision. Three judges on the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco ruled that the vote can't proceed as scheduled - because some of the votes would be cast using outdated punch-card ballot machines. Monday's decision reversed a lower court's earlier decision not to postpone the recall. "In sum, in assessing the public interest, the balance falls heavily in favor of postponing the election for a few months," the court said. The decision doesn't mean, however, that the recall can't go forward, but it may not happen on Oct. 7, as originally planned. It's possible that the nation's largest and most liberal federal appeals court might move the election to the next regularly scheduled primary on March 2. The court stayed implementing its decision for a week to allow time for appeals to the Supreme Court on the recall, California's first voter-driven election to unseat Democratic Gov. Gray Davis. State officials, who conceded in court documents that the punch-card voting mechanisms are "more prone to voter error than are newer voting systems," were likely to appeal the case. Ted Costa, head of the Sacramento-based Peoples' Advocate, one of the groups that put the recall on the ballot, said an appeal is certain. "Give us 24 hours. We'll get something off to the Supreme Court," he said. "We have already filed the papers, and we're asking for a hearing in front of the U.S. Supreme Court," state GOP Chairman Duf Sundheim said. Asked what the chances are that the Supreme Court will take the case, election law expert Ken Gross told Fox News: "That's going to be a tough call … they take a very low percentage of cases but then again, many didn't think the Supreme Court would take the Florida case." "I've got to believe that if this decision stands, the U.S. Supreme Court will intervene for the people of California," added GOP strategist Dan Schnur. The Candidates Respond Several candidates have been vying for Davis' seat, including Republican Hollywood actor Arnold Schwarzenegger, independent political commentator Arianna Huffington, Democratic Lt. Gov. Cruz Bustamante and Republican state Sen. Tom McClintock. More than 130 candidates had qualified for the ballot. Davis, who was spending his second day in a row campaigning with former President Bill Clinton, issued a response almost immediately. "The governor has always valued the importance of voter rights and will continue to campaign vigorously," read a statement released by the Davis camp. McClintock said in a statement that Monday's ruling is "simply a distraction and will have no bearing on this election." "I have every confidence that in a short time the U.S. Supreme Court will allow this election to go forward," McClintock said, noting that the 9th Circuit is the same court that banned the words "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance. "[The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals] has become a national laughing stock. This election is called for by the Constitution and demand by the people of California." Schwarzenegger called on the secretary of state to immediately appeal this decision. "Historically, the courts have upheld the rights of voters, and I expect that the court will do so again in this case," Schwarzenegger said in a statement. "I will continue to vigorously campaign for governor. The people have spoken, and their word should - and will - prevail." Schwarzenegger was already in flight when news of the decision broke. He and his wife, television journalist and Kennedy clan member Maria Shriver, had been in Chicago to appear on "The Oprah Winfrey Show." Another Case of Florida 2000? If the U.S. Supreme Court takes the case, it will be the second highly partisan political issue they have considered. Democrats say the case echoes the 2000 election in which the high court declared Republican George W. Bush the winner. The San Francisco-based appeals panel overturned an Aug. 20 ruling by U.S. District Judge Stephen V. Wilson of Los Angeles, who wouldn't delay the recall because he said it would be against the will of voters. The suit was brought by the American Civil Liberties Union. In July, Secretary of State Kevin Shelley said more than 900,000 signatures of registered voters were certified to force a recall, and by law, he had up to 80 days to schedule the special election. Shelley, who learned of the court's decision in a news conference scheduled to address other matters, expressed surprise at the ruling. "You're kidding," he said. Shelley and his team immediately began reviewing the ruling, and he will meet with state Attorney General Bill Lockyer to decide what action, if any, the state will take. State law also required Shelley to move from the March ballot to the recall ballot the only two voter initiatives that qualified. Voting on those measures also was delayed. In what was the last of about a dozen legal challenges to the attempt to unseat Davis, the judges said Monday it's unacceptable that six counties would be using outdated punch-card ballots, the type that sparked the "hanging chads" litigation in Florida during the 2000 presidential election. "This is not merely about a recall election," Mark Rosenbaum, legal director of the ACLU of Southern California, said when the group filed the suit. "Right now, the integrity of our state’s democracy is riding on the performance of these outdated, obsolete, and decertified voting machines - the same voting machines at the center of the 2000 Florida election debacle." The appellate panel agreed with the ACLU that the voting machines were prone to error and that Davis' fate could be decided later. By that time, the counties have promised to replace their punch-card machines under a court order in separate litigation. The counties include the state's most populous region, Los Angeles, in addition to Mendocino, Sacramento, San Diego, Santa Clara and Solano. They represented 44 percent of the state's registered voters during the 2000 election. The original case is Southwest Voter Registration Education Project v. Shelley. Fox News' William LaJeunesse and The Associated Press contributed to this report
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Back into hibernation. |
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