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Odd's of Legalizing in US?
The Bush Admin is pretty dead set against this. But how long do you think it will last? Weed is legal in alot of Europe, Canada doesn't really pay mind to it, do you think it could be legal in 5 years? As is the trend the Liberals in Europe set the bar and we join them a few years down the line.
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Well I'd say a lot of it is money run
You legalize it then those who hunt it lose their jobs / the money made on busts and people there get pissed But who knows, if you don't try, how would you know |
I doubt it. Unless there are hard facts that come out in the near future that totally contradict the already proven effects of marijuana, and weren't from hightimes, then it won't happen.
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...soon after it is completely legal in canada. if it was legalized, it would be cleaner, and there would be much less "drug related crime"
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I personally think that the main reasons that Marajuana is illegal in the states are: 1. Puritanical religious influences in the US government 2. The fact that weed is incredibly easy to grow and is, therefore, not easily taxable. 3. The tobacco lobby in the US. Possibly, in a few years, as the tobacco companies continue to lose battles and are forced to spend less of their monies on PAC's, we might see a but of a shift...I dont think anything will happen until then. |
Not while this administration is in power... They love to suck the fun out of life...
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I think legalizing it on a federal level is bloody unlikely - too many opponents in high places. But if it goes state-by-state (similar to medical marijuana legislation), we might see some progress. All it would take is one or two states to start the ball rolling and we'd see court challenges that might open things up a bit. Here's hoping.
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we have a war on terror now to replace war on drugs.
another way to waste money. if the US ever legalizes, it will be under a democratic congress cuz i dont think the conservatives want people smokin pot. |
All of this is purely conjecture, but I don't see it being legalized here before it is legal in Canada and then, probably not for another 5-10 years after.
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I actually think this will happen eventually. I am sure it will be controlled by the tobacco industry exactly as tobacco is.
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Just about anyone who knows how to water a plant can grow their own. This makes controlled growing and taxation difficult. If it were legalized, would you pay, say, $25 for a pack of 5 joints or would you buy your own pack of seeds for $10 and grow your own indefinitely? Of course, this is only my opinion, I could be totally wrong. |
I'm curious what you all think of the following conspiracy theory, which did not come out of my sick and twisted mind. I read it somewhere else:
Drugs will never be legalized in the U.S. because the criminal drug industry has too much to lose (presumably through the costs of regulation and taxation, competition driving down the prices, market controls, etc.) and would exert financial or other less pleasant persuasive pressures on key government officials (presumably politicians at various levels) to prevent legalization. Discuss. |
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In as much as I hate to say it...it does sound very plausible. Quote:
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Marijuana will be legal when the tobacco companies want it to be legal. Plain and simple.
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I think the efforts in Canada & the UK will help the cause - but it will take some serious pressure from the public to make it happen in the US. And that's not about to happen underneath the current admin - nor any of the other lame assed candidates on the bill for 2004...
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1. A plant you can grow in your living room and can't be taxed is EVIL!!!!! EVIL I say!!!!
2. The beer & distilled spirits industry would suffer another severe hit. Please see opensecerts.org to see how much they donate to politicians ever freaking year. It isn't chump change. 3. The current neo-con position that anything that might be enjoyed more than their true fever feelings has to be bad for America. 4. The continued federal stance of ignoring that cannabis is the, and I do mean top, cash crop in a number of states. 5. How else can the privatization of the penal system be justified unless there is a constant stream of dis-satisfied customers. The above points don't apply to me as I'm forced to urinate into a cup every month or so to maintain my employment. I would personally opt for cannabis over any other legally available rec chem but it just isn't to be. 2Wolves |
There is one thing you have overlooked...the "breathalizer". This was a main issue before most of you were even born. When I was a young buck working in the factory, ...to keep it short...we were pulled over. The trooper smelled pot. We were arrested. They wanted to drug test me. I sat in a room with two of Michigans' finest troopers reading a manuall on how to draw blood with a needle...They had some new expermental test. They wanted my blood. They were not doctors. They never did this before. I was scared as hell! I got straight real quick! After four hours they just let me post bail. Drove us back to the car. One trooper told me it was thier opnion that as soon as they could test for pot with a breath test it would probably be legal...
That was a different world. Too much "black" money is being made to legalize the devils weed. Check out what Attorney General John Ashcroft is doing right now...drug use = terrorism! Sorry but I can't find the link to back up my statement so you will have to take it as a 'grain of salt'. I read it somewhere today while searching on the PATRIOT II..but that is another topic. Thanks. |
OK, Billy Clinton made smoking regular cigarettes a major no-no. Drinking beer is a major no-no. Now potato chips are a no-no.
Do you really think that any of the guys in Washington DC will really say "well joints are ok though" It's a pipe dream.......... |
I think all drugs should be legalized and all drugs including alcohol should have the 18 and over law. All drugs should also be HEAVILY taxed.
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Missed this one
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The tobacco companies control the legalization of marijuana. Even if the drug lords somehow wanted to interviene, they wouldn't have a chance. Besides, a politician would much rather be labeled to be in the pocket of big tobacco than a drug lord that orders people be killed because someone's infringing on his turf. |
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Once they legalize weed in the United States, you will see the number of casual users decrease, mainly due to the taxes that will be added, as well as the attitude change towards smoking pot.
The question then becomes, how long do you wait before you soon the marijuana companies for the "addictive" components?? |
I found it! Check out this artical....I don't see pot ever becoming legal in this country...
http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,60129,00.html |
The article states that significant portions of the draft "faced broad opposition from conservatives and liberals alike and embarrassed the Justice Department when it was leaked to the press in February."
Let's not all panic yet. :) Senator Orrin Hatch is pretty extreme. |
Yea, as much as I hate to say it....thats I hate that about conservatives. I am conservative about most things, but damn, most of us are the fun police!
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hmmm, the proven effects being what?? i haven't heard of any proven negative effects. (government studies are not proof). i would like to see some |
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Cannabis Camels Really Kools The Best: Cannabis pFunks (Parliament) "Hey It Could Happen..." and thats why we only have to wait.... YO TOBACCO PPL... MAKE WEED LEGAL! EDIT:Lurkette has a very good point but who has more power, tobacco lobby, or the organized crime "lobby" ?? |
With tongue planted (not too) firmly in cheek:
The harmful effects of marijuana on the Brain and Central Nervous System Impaired thinking, mood, memory, and coordination . OK, now let us compare and contrast with legal drugs like alcohol. Number of cannabis induced rages in the history of mankind...........0 Number of alcohol induced rages this past weekend........................see your local battered women's shelter. 2Wolves |
"Dude, I ate all your twinkies"
"I'LL KILL YOU....woah....my hands can touch anything but themselves......oh wait..." Lets just ban alcohol and ciggerettes. |
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That doesn't sound very American to me, sir. |
Being drunk off your ass all day and beating your wife isn't very American either.
Nice try though. |
I think it failed so horribly the first time we shouldn't dare try it a second time.
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But you're right, drinking all day is a bad thing, so we should make it illegal. To carry this notion further, I'd like to suggest we make driving illegal to solve the problem of hit-and-run drivers; ban the Capitalist notion of private property to prevent theft; and, last but not least, repeal the First Amendment to put a stop to people saying nasty, un-American things. While we're on the subject, how do you feel about repealing the Second Amendment so we can get the guns out of the hands of criminals? Your line of thought is refreshingly Liberal once you take it to its logical extremes. I applaud you. |
It's easy when you put words in my mouth and then take them out of context =).
There's a line to cross when you're destroying yourself. I don't care if someone sits home all day getting drunk and smoking pot, it's when their lifestyle encroaches on anothers that it becomes a problem. Those were cute analogies though, I'll clarify by saying I am for driving, private property and the first and second amendment. Now, personal attacks aside, why do you think we should legalize a destructive invasive drug like marijuana, Nizzle? |
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Criminalizing something because it can, in theory contribute to a negative effect is a slipperly slope. One must draw the line based on common sense, solid evidence, and an objective assesment of the pros and cons. Anyone who has done more than cursory research into the history of the cannabis plant in America knows that this has not been done; the original lobbyists responsible had less than the welfare of smokers in mind. I don't smoke pot, and I don't read High Times, so please do not generalize that all supporters of legalization are potheads. I don't label all supporters of Bush as redneck Christian fundamentalists. Stereotyping your opposition doesn't really give credit to your arguments or position. What it does demonstrate is an unwillingness to take your opposition seriously. You are welcome to feel that way, but it discredits the notion that your assessment is objective. Who are you to "draw the line" if you won't listen to the other side of the argument. That slope leads into the pit of fascism. Quote:
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I think for medical purpose, 10 years, recreational long long time.
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There is also about as much proof alcohol is bad for you as there is marijuana. Why not ban alcohol since marijuana is so bad? I've heard the reverse (alcohol is legal so pot should be too!) more than once from the legalize crowd. Quote:
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I used to do production work at a computer joint with a few potheads who would regularly talk with each other rather then work, not come in to work, and produce shotty work when they did. This was a problem for me because we were expected to work as a team, or in other words I carried the whole lab the entire time I worked there. |
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1. We are spending a massive amount of tax dollars to incarcerate drug offenders. The number is rising rapidly. - According to ONDCP, federal spending to incarcerate drug offenders totals nearly $3 Billion a year -- $2.525 Billion by the Bureau of Prisons, and $429.4 Million by Federal Prisoner Detention. (Source:_ Office of National Drug Control Policy, "National Drug Control Strategy: FY 2003 Budget Summary" (Washington, DC: Office of the President, February 2002), Table 3, pp. 7-9. ) - Over 80% of the increase in the federal prison population from 1985 to 1995 was due to drug convictions. (Source:_US Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prisoners in 1996 (Washington DC: US Department of Justice, 1997). 2. Having a substance which is illegal creates drug trafficing. If this substance were legal, controlled and taxed it would eliminate a large section of criminals who make ridiculous amounts of money peddling. Money made from the sale of marijuana (and saved by not filling the prisons with drug offenders) could be used to fund education and social programs. Perhaps drug use would even decline. And if not, we would still save a lot of money. 3. Cannabis has been illegal for decades, and its use is still increasing every day. Your War on Drugs is a failure. 4. Please study the history and consequences of prohibition for a realistic reason why making alcohol illegal would not be a rational move. Quote:
I agree, there are probably some things about recreational use of cannabis that aren't that great. I also know that eating too much grease, salt and saturated fats is just as bad, if not worse. There are studies to "prove" this. Whether they should be illegal or not is not determined by that alone. This is what I think: - There are some harmful effects of chronic marijuana use - There are some serious problems with it being illegal that need to be considered - There are some benefits to making it legal What I want is rational discourse that takes all these factors into account. Quote:
This statement implicitly declares that anyone who disagrees with your "proof" has gotten it from High Times, and is therefore a pothead (I don't know anyone else who reads High Times). The assertation that there are no credible studies on the benefits of medical cannabis is pretty silly. There is a large volume of such information. Quote:
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2. If pot were legal there would still be illegal substances being smuggled into the U.S. If we're still going to be doing the same thing, paying the DEA, putting the heinous offenders in prison (you don't go to prison for minor possession in most states, just a fine in Ohio unless you're carrying over a certain amount, which would result in jail and a fine I believe. I'd be in favor of increasing the fine against offenders for around 5 thousand dollars and sending them on their way. Because it sends the message that it is the wrong thing to do, and is a more plausible means of enforcing the law. Texas marijuana laws are close enough to this.) 3. That's easy to say. What would the numbers look like if we weren't fighting though? Too hard to say, but I think we'd have far more dumbasses then we do now. 4. Duly noted, but the point is that when someone says alcohol is worse then pot, so it should be legal too is nonsensical. Quote:
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But to humor you, I searched for "medical marijuana" and limited results to .edu domains. Here's a large report from the Institute of Medicine (link here). Read the executive summary if nothing else. It covers every point previously cited in relation to psychological and physiological effects. It concludes, and states it in no uncertain terms, that although chronic use of marijuana has side effects, they are mild and short-lived. It goes extensively into benefits on cannabanoids in treatment of various disorders. Quote:
PRINCIPAL INVESTIGATORS AND ADVISORY PANEL JOHN A. BENSON, JR. (Co-Principal Investigator), Dean and Professor of Medicine, Emeritus, Oregon Health Sciences University School of Medicine STANLEY J. WATSON, JR. (Co-Principal Investigator), Co-Director and Research Scientist, Mental Health Research Institute, University of Michigan STEVEN R. CHILDERS, Professor of Physiology and Pharmacology, Center for Neuroscience, Bowman Gray School of Medicine, Wake Forest University J. RICHARD CROUT, President of Crout Consulting, Drug Development and Regulation, Bethesda, Maryland THOMAS J. CROWLEY, Professor, Department of Psychiatry, and Executive Director, Addiction Research and Treatment Services, University of Colorado Health Sciences Center JUDITH FEINBERG, Professor, Department of Internal Medicine, and Associate Director, Division of Infectious Diseases, University of Cincinnati School of Medicine HOWARD L. FIELDS, Professor of Neurology and Physiology, University of California at San Francisco DOROTHY HATSUKAMI, Professor of Psychiatry, University of Minnesota ERIC B. LARSON, Medical Director, University of Washington Medical Center, and Associate Dean for Clinical Affairs, University of Washington BILLY R. MARTIN, Professor of Pharmacology and Toxicology, and Director of National Institute on Drug Abuse Center on Drug Abuse, Medical College of Virginia, Virginia Commonwealth University TIMOTHY L. VOLLMER, Professor of Medicine, Multiple Sclerosis Research Center, Yale University School of Medicine Quote:
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I don't know. Certainly a strong education program would need to come with legalization; and regulations to prevent cigarette companies from marketing heavily to teens. Perhaps we will learn something from Canadian long-term studies. Quote:
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You mean like how you are convinced that everyone opposing you is affiliated with High Times and have no scientists or doctors to back their claims? No, I simply have not heard any good arguments that make me question how I already feel. I hate to break this to you, but one report does not constitute proof of anything. The legalization of marijuana is a very potent political and social issue, and the people funding the research -- on both sides -- have a lot at stake on the contents of these reports. The point that I was trying to make earlier is that if you search, you will find people on both sides of the coin stating they have scientific proof of their side. Quote:
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I read the executive summary and I don't see where it says anything but withdrawal is mild as well, that site doesn't seem to support your claims. I also read (albeit things I already knew) that there are other drugs that can do everything marijuana can, in most cases better. Quote:
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Wow. If you actually read the IOM report and think it's on your side, you are seriously deluded.
I'm done. |
Keep it nice, please.
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What, what, what? The theoretical legalization of marijuana is hinging on its harmful effects? Apparently I have entered a Twilight Zone in which alcohol and tobacco do not exist :).
Seriously, I for one won't debate the harmful effects of marijuana. Short term memory loss, helpless stupidity, and, in some cases, debilitating apathy about elements important to your life, like hygeine, employment, and a social life. But you could apply all of those symptoms to alcohol, respectfully, except for alcohol (and tobacco's) addictiveness. Also, it's important to keep in mind that if I promote legalization, that doesn't mean I don't have a problem with kids sparking up a fatty. That's kind of silly. Regulate it and tax it. Severe fines for those caught growing it without a license. I don't think personal pot gardens will be such a problem, not compared to bathtub gin, or pouring rubbing alcohol through a loaf of rye bread. Just treat it like alcohol. Can't drive and smoke. Can't drive while high. Can't smoke in a public place that doesn't have a license. I prefer pot over alcohol, because pot doesn't make you sick, doesn't make you think you can take on 300-pound Kung Fu masters, and is an order of magnitude less likely to negatively affect your life. But it won't happen any time soon, with the pharmeceutical industry. Also, don't overlook hemp legalization, which the logging industry would put up an impressive fight against. Alcohol is a drug. Cigarettes are a drug. Chew is a drug. Only one of them has some mildly positive health effects. Marijuana, however, has been proven to provide many health benefits. A college friend of mine turned to marijuana when no legal antidepressant could help. Even though it's supposed to be a depressant, marijuana lifted his gloom and allowed him to be a successful, energetic, and social individual. Marijuana is also a decidedly non-violent drug. You will never jones for marijuana. If you think you're jonesing for it, you've never tried heroin. That, my friend, is jonesing. Friend of mine had this anecdote, where he was asking someone how they'd quit marijuana, and the guy said, "I haven't quit. I just haven't scored in eleven years and two months." Marijuana will never do that to you. Pot proponents will never be pushy. "C'mon, man, have a drink! Loosen up! Drink it!!!" "Never had a cigarette? Take a puff, be a man." Marijuana? "Hey, dude, you want a puff? No? Okay." Share and share alike. No one gets down on you if you don't want to try it. It's not for everybody. It's not a rite of passage. Just a thing you might want to do to have some fun, to lift your spirit, to take care of a headache, a stomach ache, etc. Okay, no more rambling from me. If you don't like pot--that's your thing, I respect it. If you know somebody who became a loser because of it--yes, that happens. Though usually that's a symptom of a deeper problem in their life, not the pot itself. Unlike alcohol and tobacco, which can manifest their addictions irrespective of your life experience. I personally think everyone should try it once. It's not like it makes your head explode or anything :). Don't want any? That's cool. |
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everyone has a preference and a choice but just cause "it might be harmful" is no reason to dismiss the possibility of it's medical uses -------- the only thing bad about pot is that you eat lots of cookies and chips :) ....and everything is "COOOOL DUUUDE!" -------- haha i dont think alcohol or cigarettes will ever be banned in America seeing as how like 90% of the legal population use either one in some sort of way. |
Chickens dont' dance
My subject means nothing, however legalizing in the US is coming, drawing closer and closer every day. Where I live in Washington, you can be caught with marijuana and let off every time. People are caring less and less about this heaven sent drug. No I am not biast.
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If they had any brains they'd make it a state monopoly... assure the quality of it so people know what they're getting, and tax it... A lot of income for the country right there.
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I would like to point out that marijuana is not always smoked - many of the health problems proposed could be easily avoided. Cooking with marijuana is easy since its fat soluable... just warm it up in some butter and you're good to go. Most, if not all, of the other side effects are either only for the duration of the effect of the drug, or a personal life choice. ....also any woman who takes any drug during pregancy is asking for trouble - its just stupid.
I just find it funny that certain drugs are legal and legal by perscription that have far worse side-effects than marijuana. You can cure your depression but you'll have: diahrrea, sleepiness, cough, stuffy/runny nose, bloody urine, dilated pupils, nausea/vomiting, gas, headaches, skin irritation, itchiness, swelling, redness, rash, erectile disfunction, sexual side-effects, dehydration, dandruff, loss of skin pigmentation, and weight gain. But you wont be depressed!!! |
Personally, I hope that it isn't legalized. I am no conservative either.
If marijuana was legalized I can't imagine what kind of additives companies would put in our weed to make it more addictive than it already is. Just like they do to cigarettes. The government would put high taxes on it. Or at least I assume they would. If you tried to grow it and sell some and didn't report it you would still be charged with money laundering like many growers are today. I do think marijuana should be decriminalized though. We need to save jail cells for rapists, murderers, child pornographers, etc. |
I don't know but it doens't look like anytime soon. No matter how many people are for it, it doesn't seem to pass.
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