Capital Abortion
 

I live in a country where it's illegal to kill a convicted criminal but ok to slaughter an innocent child.

They also make you wear a seatbelt or suffer a fine, but allow people to smoke causing themselves and others cancer.

In the words of Goldmember..... "Ishn't dat veird?"

what country is that?

Is abortion really slaughtering an innocent child? (title/sentence extrapolated).

-bear

Canada... and yes....unless you would rather use words such as kill, terminate, extinguish, assisted suicide.... (check thesaurus for other uses)

Do you believe in Christianity?

No, I go right for the source, I believe in God.

What are some of your hobbies?

Assisted suicide? hmm.

Not the act, the victim. Is someone aborted really an innocent child, or is it an innocent fetus, is it even innocent?

That's what I was asking about.

-b

*going to start a count on abortion threads*

Oh, I thought your were offended by my choice of wording. I suppose it comes down to.... put yourself in the position of the doctor, could you yourself destroy the fetus?
That, and of course whether you're grateful that it wasn't done to you.

FYI Fetus is Greek (latin is prolly what I am thinking) for little or innocent one, so using the term to try and strip an unborn child of its humanity is ridiculous.

ps...not at all. Would I, I really hope not. Could I, probably not.

mpp...I didn't try and strip anything. honestly.

L...how many off the top o yo 'ead?

-b

me too.

AFAIK, most mainstream Christian denominations believe in original sin.

When the little person can survive on their own, outside the womb, then it is murder.

Before this point it is a zygote, needing the host to survive.

If the host decides to terminate the zygote, so be it.

I hate abortion, I hate the thought of it, I hate the idea of it.

Now back to reality.

I'm not a woman, so it's really none of my damn business.

i agree with you for once...wow.

we kill a lot of other living things at a stage much farther than the zygote.

Re: Capital Abortion
 

Hey feel free to not wear your seltbelt. As for smoking... most places in Canada are now smoke free, or have an enclosed smoking area. Plus smokers pay more taxes, so its not all bad :D

Its people's choice to smoke. They government doesnt need to stop everything that people would choose to do that is bad for them. Im also pro-choice when it comes to abortion. We kill many many animals that are far past the stage of a fetus being aborted, do you feel bad for them too? Maybe Im just cold hearted, but I really dont care about other people's choice to have a child aborted. Some children SHOULD be aborted, because their parents wont be able to support them (IE on wellfare sucking my tax dollars away), and they are going to end up as fucked up people who dont contribute to society anyway, or probably in jail wasting my tax dollars. Death is a much better choice than a lifetime of suffering.

As for assisted suicide, Im all for it. If people want to die that bad, then fuck it, let them die. We are overpopulated anyway.

I'd say before we worry about abortion, stop all wars. I don't see the big deal about killing a few fetuses, wen so many people die all the time in wars.

especially innocent :D civilians.

Re: Capital Abortion
 

Most of the laws the government has to keep you "safe" have two reasons for being:

1) The people (voters) like to be safe, their representatives pass legislation to keep them safe (police, ect.)

2)The government collects taxes from people. The safer these people are, the longer they live and the more taxes they are likely to pay.

I think abortion is something women need to sort out. I am pro choice, but it is not my (or any other guy's) choice to make. It should be up to each individual woman to make her own choices.

Once it gets past that 'lump of stem cells' stage, I think abortion is wrong, but in various situations can be justified.

Lots of great input folks, I appreciate it. I still think it's wonky (My orriginal post) that they legislate and initiate programs that contradict each other ..... makes you wonder;
What if they just say no, and close tobacco plants
People drive without seatbelts with no consequence.
We let new life grow and kill those who have proven themselves worthless.
What if we rely on human kindness and common sense to fund social programs instead of excessive taxation....
Just a thought.

I agree with reconmike, when the parasite can survive outside the host, then it should be afforded separate entity status. Until then it is a growth and excising it is no more murder than removing a tumor.

I can see the reason behind forcing drivers to wear seatbelts, it costs the government money to scrape people off the pavement, not to mention how it screws up traffic. And in a socialized health care system like canada, it does cost the government money to deal with peoples tobacco related illnesses.

They could fry aborted fetuses (not sure on correct plural use here!) and feed the homeless! 2 birds with one stone!

If you don't want a tree in your yard, don't plant the seed.

And if someone kicks down your fence and installs said tree against your protestations? Way to oversimplify.

"The medical emergency and rape and incest exceptions would amount to less than 1% of abortions."
Canadian Gallup Poll (Nov. 2002)

Actually surprised myself with the above stat, had a feeling, but didn't know the facts, but now that I do....

If someone kicks your fence down, do what is in your best interest, may I suggest finding the fence kicker and castrating him, or maybe a little CAPITAL punishment.... gotta love CAPITAL punishment..... yep.... good stuff......

Yeah, because vengeance will do anything about the child born of hatred festering in your womb, not to mention the psychological injury...
As for your statistics, they refer to Canada, and it's a POLL, not a case study. So I'm less impressed than I could be.

Less impressed than you could be but more impressed than you should be?
When I get a chance I'll do some more hunting for info maybe I can shed some more light on it.....
In the mean time, there's very little wrong with vengeance, it's human nature, I know if my fence were kicked down I would be looking for a little more than having our justice system give him/her several months or a couple of years....

Mmm.
All I'm saying is this: The common male reaction of wanting to kick in the head of the rapist generally isn't serving the victim, but the man himself.

Yeah, I can see your point, but from a male point of view...there's not a lot of other avenues to go down.

Prosequence, I told you this thread would get a lot of use, and I for 1 am happy with the diversity of response. As to the issue, I am against abortion and would not be a party to it (except in the cases brought up ealier) but I do agree with a woman's right to choose. I cannot justify this position and realize i am sitting on some kind of fence but that is how it is.

OK.... here's something a friend brought up reading over my shoulder...
(Before going on I do realise that this would be extremely rare)
What if a woman was to rape a man or steal his sperm... would he have the right to have the baby aborted ?? Should he ??

It's amazing how many men, who are unable to bring life into the world (short of the contribution of DNA), have such strong opinions on the nature of unborn children.

Still waiting for some feedback on this... any input folks ?

I can see why no one has touched this, actually. I'd say no, but he shouldn't have to bear any responsibility for paternity, which is to say child support and so forth.

lol the other day I did it with sixate...get ready folks, I am going to do it agian with reconmike. WHAT IS GOING ON HERE!


I AGREE WITH RECONMIKE!

Yeah, but its my yard. I will plant what I like and when I don't want it there I will dig it up and throw it out. Why? Because it is my yard and none of your damn business what I do in it.


Is it in his body? No. If it dies before birth does it have the chance to kill him also? No. Will he have to suffer through body changes that may be irreversible after carrying the child for 9 1/2 months? No.

Do I need to finish?


Now, on the act of steeling his sperm he can press charges and the woman would probably do jail time.

Yes, he can mentally suffer. Which if you ask the courts they validate it.
Seeing that person walking around ... belly getting bigger.... knowing the child inside is yours... ew kinda creepy.

Abortion is GOOD. Think about it, you pay your tax and that goes to everything. Teen mothers often do not parent at ALL to what a ready family can. So the Teen brings up a jackoff kid, that will act out. He goes to jail, I pay more tax to keep him there. No abortion = more jackoffs in jail = more tax. And I hate how much my taxes are!

I always fantasise about people getting responsible and making sure they don't raise "jackoff" kids, or have sex before they are ready to have kids for that matter... but you do have a bit of a point.... kinda ties into my original post about capital punishment.

Most christian churches do NOT believe in Original Sin. Most churches teach that Sin is a choice. Recreational sex results in pregnancy quite often. The child of the sex is not responsible for its own creation and as a human should be treated as such. After all, if it is not a baby, it's not a pregnancy.
The consequences of Rape and Incest are not the fault of the child and adoption is as viable a choice as death. We have already ended the lives of millions of children, and for what reason? What is our purpose in this? Eugenics? Recreation? Convenience? Frivolity?
Beethoven was the child of a rape.
The government regulates seat belts and such because there are lobbies that pressure elected officials and very little opposition by others. If you disagree with the use of seat belyts, start lobbying.
The government has been at a stalemate in the question of
To equalize human and animal life is ridiculous. To demand that the taking of a life is acceptable because that life might be one of misery or lack contribution is nothing less than savage. If that is the case, anyone who does not contribute to society must be eliminated and we should let animals roam the streets as cattle do in India because they are of an equal worth to humans.
It is impossible for anyone to be so naiive except by choice.

You know, I dont even think males should be allowed to have an opinion on the subject(me being one)

Let the women work it out amongst themselves, they're the ones that have to deal with the consequences.

Physically yes, mentally no. I do recognise the fact not everyone wants the responsibility to make that choice, I guess it's a personal thing.

Some of my views :)

I disagree with EVERY man who says he shouldn't have a choice in the matter. You just wait until you are paying child support for a child you didn't want the woman to have, then you might have wanted a say in it.
Unfortunately though, men never will be able to have a say because it IS always the womans choice. Women should listen to a mans opinion but more often than not, women don't.

I am pro choice. What is the big deal with us feeling that the human life is so damned unexpendable? We have this divine right to life yet we take it away from every other species without relent.

If you are pro life - would you deem a tape worm in your stomach dispensible? You may think I am being ridiculous but an unwanted child is equally parasitic. Women sometimes die during child birth and if not, their bodies are left distorted.

I am also opposed to capitol punishment. It's too expensive and you may say that "justice shouldn't have a price" but those millions of dollars that are wasted on those trials could have gone to the local police force which might have aided in keeping that POS from murdering whoever he did. Taxes in cities with criminals on death row are very high.

If you do some research you will find that capitol punishment is not a deterant to crime. There is no correlation whatsoever. I would post a link here but the information was taken away with my other computer.

There are lots of suicides in prison. David Hammer was quoted in saying that he couldn't wait for his execution. Why give the criminal what he wants? Those men could be living in shame and guilt.

Many don't know that when you are dying, oxygen goes to the right temporal lobe in the brain. This causes a feeling of extacy and floating. Our bodies are designed to make death a pleasant experience.

The government still operates under religious influence here in America and we are just in a hurry to get our criminals off to hell "where they belong".

Capitol punishment is a religious practice. Have you ever heard of "An eye for an eye."

Separation of Church and state? I'd like to think so. . .

I apologize in advance for posting in exhibition.

Bush decreased a lot of subsidies that went to schools to teach about safe sex and increased subsidies to teach about abstinence. Personally I don't feel like this is right, kids are going to have sex you might as well inform them on how to do it more safely.

I think killin kids is alright in the context of "fighting the war on terror"
Right to life until you're actually alive, then to hell with you.
I think the pro-life movement should actually be called the pro-birth movement. It seems that beyond making sure every mush sack of futurehuman gets its day, the pro-life don't really have much concern for the "life" aspect of, well, life.

Abortion
 

I agree bear its a difficult question. Its not even developed. Surely the mother should have a say while its only 1 inch big?

Let's say a woman is pregnant and wants the child, the male doesn't. The male finds a way to get the woman to abort (physicall means / herbal / chemical ) and does so. The woman loses the child.
Can he be charged? What with? Should he be charged?

He could be charged if he resorted to physical violence. If he was secretely giving a woman herbs or chemicals as not to be trapped into paying child support if he doesn't want the kid, more power to him, in my opinion.

Prosequence;

This happened a year ago.
My brother-in-law's wife works in a kindergarten. She had a miscarriage after one of the children ran into her.

My question is:
What should we charge the child with?
Manslaughter, perhaps?
What repercussions should there be?
Should the parents lose custody of the child?
He has already killed once!

Good questions, so what did happen?

Nothing happened.

Nothing happened? And everyone was OK with that? Any apology from the family etc...?

The child should be sent to the chair. It is okay to kill if the person is post-womb and deserves it.