So Long Rosey Roads - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Peetster · 07-22-2003, 04:16 AM

End of live bombing at Vieques makes base, jobs expendable

By James G. Lakely
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

Stopping the U.S. Navy from conducting live-fire bombing exercises on the tiny Puerto Rican island of Vieques was a hot cause for leftist activists, Hollywood stars and Democrats in Congress in 2001.
The pressure ultimately led to President Bush deciding to end 60 years of live bombing at Vieques — the final wisps of smoke blew in May — and conduct exercises elsewhere, such as the Florida Keys and the North Carolina coast.
But the victory in the Battle of Vieques came at a steep price to the people of Puerto Rico and created a largely unforeseen consequence, the closing of Roosevelt Roads Naval Station, the island's largest employer.
"If you take the [bombing] mission away from Vieques, you don't need that base anymore," said Rep. Randy "Duke" Cunningham, California Republican. "Sometimes you get what you wish for."
Tucked into the Defense spending bill for 2004 is a provision that will close the base six months after the bill is signed by Mr. Bush. The sprawling base, which once stationed more than 7,000 sailors and employs thousands of Puerto Ricans in support jobs, injects $250 million into the local economy.
"Sure, [Puerto Rico] would like to have the money, but we have other priorities," said Rep. Jerry Lewis, California Republican and chairman of the House Appropriations Committee's defense subcommittee. "Many of the protesting organizations had an idea" the base could be closed, "but probably not so quickly."
Rep. John P. Murtha, Pennsylvania Democrat and ranking member of the defense subcommittee, said the Navy insisted that without live bombing exercises on Vieques, the base is not worth keeping.
"The Navy is overly committed all over the world, and they need these 3,000 people in other places," Mr. Murtha said.
Rep. Jose E. Serrano, New York Democrat, is outraged at what he calls the "arrogance" of the Navy. He said the people of Puerto Rico are "panicked" about their future without what is affectionately called "Rosey Roads."
"I think it's punishment" for the protests, Mr. Serrano said. "We are being punished for winning an issue against the federal government. The Navy said, 'Oh yeah. We're going to fix you. We're going to close the base.' "
Sen. James M. Inhofe, Oklahoma Republican and member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said he feels sorry for the people of Puerto Rico but that they were "lied to by their politicians" and the protest movement.
"Puerto Rico used every unethical and illegal means to kick us off that live range," Mr. Inhofe said.
The Senate passed its version of the defense appropriations bill last week. It did not contain language closing the base, but Mr. Inhofe said he expects the base-closing provision to survive in the final version to emerge from conference committee in the coming weeks.
The property containing Roosevelt Roads has been appraised at $1.7 billion. After an environmental cleanup, which could cost around $300 million, the property will be sold with the proceeds going to the Department of Defense.
Mr. Inhofe said not training at Vieques has increased the cost of necessary live-fire exercises elsewhere and has decreased the training's effectiveness because it is harder to integrate the exercises among the services. The Vieques property has been turned over to the Interior Department, which will retain possession.
"There's a huge cost associated with losing that range," Mr. Inhofe said.
Mr. Lewis told Delegate Anibal Acevedo-Vila, Puerto Rico Democrat, that he would "give all the support we possibly can" to replace the economic loss of the base closing. Mr. Murtha said previous base closings have come with $50 million to $100 million aid packages.
Acevedo-Vila spokesman Paul Weiss would not disclose what kind of aid will be sought for Puerto Rico, and still held out hope the Navy would reconsider "rushing away from such a strategic location."
Mr. Cunningham said he would oppose any aid package to make up for Roosevelt Roads.
"They don't want us there," Mr. Cunningham said. "They had a chance to become a state and declined. They don't pay taxes."
Mr. Inhofe said it's now too late to start worrying about the "natural outcome" of the Vieques protests.
"That's their problem," Mr. Inhofe said. "The time for them to be concerned about that was when they were kicking us off our range. I told them this would happen."

The_Dude · 07-22-2003, 09:10 AM

never really cared about the bombin down there. i knew a lot of peeps out lookin for publicity went there to protest (al sharpton or jesse jackson, one of the two went there and got arrested).

all i heard was that they should stop the bombin, but not a good reason why.

seretogis · 07-22-2003, 11:25 AM

That story is pretty ridiculous, and can be seen as another example of the lack of foresight of the dem protestors. Why would we keep a base that we no longer have any use of? Think about the consequences of such action before protesting it.

Lebell · 07-22-2003, 11:51 AM

A sterling example of the old adage,

"Be careful what you wish for, because you may get it."

Macheath · 07-22-2003, 01:42 PM

You totally pull the plug on a economy, you've got a moral responsibility to help them try to get back on their feet, regardless of your personal sour grapes about the "protesters".

Lewis knows this and that's why he discusses the prospect of some kind of economic support. Inhofe and Cunningham just sound bitter and twisted.

Phaenx · 07-22-2003, 02:00 PM

No we don't. If they don't want to help the US, then we aren't obligated to help them.

The_Dude · 07-22-2003, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Phaenx
No we don't. If they don't want to help the US, then we aren't obligated to help them.

err...isnt puerto rico a US territory?? so arent we obligated to help them?

Phaenx · 07-22-2003, 06:11 PM

Yes, they're a part of the US in the sense that we own their land, but we're in no way morally obligated to do anything for them because the military left their area.

Lebell · 07-22-2003, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Macheath
You totally pull the plug on a economy, you've got a moral responsibility to help them try to get back on their feet...

Do we?

*Lebell hands Macheath a copy of Atlas Shrugged*

The_Dude · 07-22-2003, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Phaenx
Yes, they're a part of the US in the sense that we own their land, but we're in no way morally obligated to do anything for them because the military left their area.

lol, so they're just good for a military base only??

they have as much right as the 50 states to voice their opinion.

the people living there are US citizens.

what if i said that ohio is good for anything else and if a major industry pulls out of there, we should just let 'em to rot?

we're a federal system, not confederate.

Lebell · 07-22-2003, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Dude
lol, so they're just good for a military base only??

they have as much right as the 50 states to voice their opinion.

Actually, no they don't.

Puerto Rico has had frequent ballot initiatives to become a state but the voters have turned them down everytime. The reason? Most believe it is because as a US Territory, they receive almost all of the benefits of being a state without paying taxes.

The one downside is they get no representation in Congress and cannot vote in any national elections.

So they don't have as much right as any state to voice their opinion.

The_Dude · 07-22-2003, 07:56 PM

ok, i was wrong there.

well, they still have enough right to demand representation.

if i'm not mistaken again, they do have representation in the house of rep's.

so we cant just abandon the territory just cuz there is no base there.

smooth · 07-22-2003, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Dude
ok, i was wrong there.

well, they still have enough right to demand representation.

if i'm not mistaken again, they do have representation in the house of rep's.

so we cant just abandon the territory just cuz there is no base there.

Puerto Rico is a self-governing commonwealth in association with the United States. The chief of state is the President of the United States of America. The head of government is an elected Governor. There are two legislative chambers: the House of Representatives, 51 seats, and the Senate, 27 seats.

Puerto Rico has authority over its internal affairs. United States controls: interstate trade, foreign relations and commerce, customs administration, control of air, land and sea, immigration and emigration, nationality and citizenship, currency, maritime laws, military service, military bases, army, navy and air force, declaration of war, constitutionality of laws, jurisdictions and legal procedures, treaties, radio and television--communications, agriculture, mining and minerals, highways, postal system; social security, and other areas generally controlled by the federal government in the United States. Puerto Rican institutions control internal affairs unless U.S. law is involved, as in matters of public health and pollution. The major differences between Puerto Rico and the 50 states are its local taxation system and exemption from Internal Revenue Code, its lack of voting representation in either house of the U.S. Congress, the ineligibility of Puerto Ricans to vote in presidential elections, and its lack of assignation of some revenues reserved for the states.

--http://welcome.topuertorico.org/government.shtml (emphasis added)

The_Dude · 07-22-2003, 08:16 PM

lol, wrong again.

http://clerk.house.gov/members/inter...p?statdis=PR00

that link lists him as a member of the house, or "Puerto Rico-Resident Commissioner".

and the dude is a member of 3 house committees.

Macheath · 07-22-2003, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lebell
Do we?

*Lebell hands Macheath a copy of Atlas Shrugged*

*Macheath hands Lebell copies of both the Treaty of Versailles and the Marshall Plan to compare and contrast.*

Why sow the seeds of resentment in Puerto Rico just because you want to score a few political points at home?

You gave the islanders fish for a few years. Now teach them how to fish.

Lebell · 07-22-2003, 11:12 PM

Macheath,

Those are apples and oranges.

The simple economic facts are that the base no longer has a reason to exist and should be shut down.

This is not punishing the local economy anymore than it punishes the economies of the dozens of US cities that have lost military bases (including Denver's Fitzsimmons Army Hospital and Lowry AFB).

Frankly, the suggestion that to do so is 'scor(ing) a few political points at home' is offensive to me, especially when you do not know all the facts and history of military base closings in the United States, it's territories and it's allied nations.

Liquor Dealer · 07-28-2003, 07:26 AM

I had sworn to never post on the politics board again but simply could not let this one slide -

Having spent time at Rosie Roads myself I find this rather amusing!

Puerto Rico is saying this base closing is political and financial revenge! Could that happen? As the people in the parts of Texas that voted against Lyndon Johnson??? Lots of Texas bases went Bye Bye!!!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,93029,00.html

MIAMI — File this one under "Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it."

The people of Puerto Rico are facing some unanticipated consequences from a victory they won in 2001.

For several years, Puerto Rican protesters demanded that the U.S. Navy leave the island of Vieques. Groups staged violent protests outside the main gate of "Camp Garcia," saying they were sick and tired of the live-fire bombing exercises.

The violence resulted in the gates of the base being torn down. Several U.S. troops and police dogs were injured in the demonstrations.

In response to the years of protest, former President Clinton agreed to stop Navy exercises there. Congress and President Bush ratified the deal and live-fire exercises were halted last May. But with its mission muzzled after 60 years, the Navy has decided to pull out of Puerto Rico completely.

That means the largest employer on the island, the Roosevelt Roads Naval Station, is now slated for closure that could come as early as October.

Island workers are accusing the Navy of economic revenge.

"You dedicate all your talents, all your efforts. You're loyal to your employer, this case being the U.S. Navy, and what do you get in return? A kick in the you-know-what," said Ana Angelet of the Puerto Rican chapter of the American Federation of Government Employees.

The 2004 defense-spending bill that is working its way through Congress has a provision in it to close the base down officially. With the loss of the base, Puerto Rico will also lose nearly $300 million the military pumped into it each year.

Puerto Ricans say the Navy is just mad because they won, and forced the live exercises to end. The Navy does not hide its disappointment. Navy officials say the location was long considered the best overall spot for exercises and stopping the live-fire training cost American military lives.

Sen. James Inhofe, R-Okla., a member of the Armed Services Committee (search), said Puerto Rico's politicians are to blame for the financial misfortune since they backed the protests.

"I just think it's a shame that the people, the ones that are suffering, are the people of Puerto Rico because it was the politicians that did it to them," Inhofe said.

Puerto Rican Gov. Sila Calderon, who backed the booting of the Navy from Vieques, made no apologies for a decision that could crush the Puerto Rican economy.

"We are partners with the U.S., but definitely the rights of the people of Vieques are not for sale or for any other purpose," Calderon said.

She also refused to discuss the possibility that the base closure could become law.

"This decision is not final at this point. The bill is not approved, and our aim as the commonwealth government is to have the decision postponed for 2005, when all the bases are going to be evaluated," she said.

The U.S. government may decide to hold onto the more than 8,000 acres, rather than returning it to the people of Puerto Rico.

"Those that don't want that to happen say well, 'Let's just give back to the Puerto Rican politicians,' and reward them with an asset that's worth $1.7 billion for kicking us off that range that has cost American lives. That's just not going to happen," Inhofe said.

The sense on all sides is that Congress will give the green light to shut down "Rosie Roads" officially. Bush could sign the bill into law as early as next month

Dragonlich · 07-28-2003, 09:42 AM

Isn't it the same story worldwide? Japanese people protesting US military bases on Okinawa, forgetting that without it, the economy would suffer; German people protesting the US, then being angry US bases are shut down, costing them money...

Some people are just never satisfied. Perhaps the US should consider giving these people money for free - that might be okay with them. Or then again, probably not: you'd probably be accused of trying to "buy their support" or something.

The_Dude · 07-28-2003, 11:29 AM

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...threadid=17950

somebody beat ya to it.

Cynthetiq · 07-28-2003, 11:41 AM

BAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA this is just like what happened to the Philippines with Subic Bay and Clark Airbase... Yankees go home... and that they did... taking along with them their wallets and their disposable incomes.

Be careful what you ask for you may just get it, and it may not really be what you wanted.

Liquor Dealer · 07-28-2003, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Macheath
You totally pull the plug on a economy, you've got a moral responsibility to help them try to get back on their feet, regardless of your personal sour grapes about the "protesters".

Lewis knows this and that's why he discusses the prospect of some kind of economic support. Inhofe and Cunningham just sound bitter and twisted.

We have no moral responsibility to help them do jack shit! They are like any other population that has cultivated an economy around a military presence and milked it for all it was worth. When it goes away it's gone - they should be thankful for what they made from it while it was there just like every other community that loses a military presence. Pork barrel politics placed them where they were and the lack of it, and perhaaps the end of the need for it takes it away. We owe them nothing.

07-22-2003, 04:16 AM	#1 (permalink)
Peetster Right Now Location: Home	So Long Rosey Roads End of live bombing at Vieques makes base, jobs expendable By James G. Lakely THE WASHINGTON TIMES Stopping the U.S. Navy from conducting live-fire bombing exercises on the tiny Puerto Rican island of Vieques was a hot cause for leftist activists, Hollywood stars and Democrats in Congress in 2001. The pressure ultimately led to President Bush deciding to end 60 years of live bombing at Vieques — the final wisps of smoke blew in May — and conduct exercises elsewhere, such as the Florida Keys and the North Carolina coast. But the victory in the Battle of Vieques came at a steep price to the people of Puerto Rico and created a largely unforeseen consequence, the closing of Roosevelt Roads Naval Station, the island's largest employer. "If you take the [bombing] mission away from Vieques, you don't need that base anymore," said Rep. Randy "Duke" Cunningham, California Republican. "Sometimes you get what you wish for." Tucked into the Defense spending bill for 2004 is a provision that will close the base six months after the bill is signed by Mr. Bush. The sprawling base, which once stationed more than 7,000 sailors and employs thousands of Puerto Ricans in support jobs, injects $250 million into the local economy. "Sure, [Puerto Rico] would like to have the money, but we have other priorities," said Rep. Jerry Lewis, California Republican and chairman of the House Appropriations Committee's defense subcommittee. "Many of the protesting organizations had an idea" the base could be closed, "but probably not so quickly." Rep. John P. Murtha, Pennsylvania Democrat and ranking member of the defense subcommittee, said the Navy insisted that without live bombing exercises on Vieques, the base is not worth keeping. "The Navy is overly committed all over the world, and they need these 3,000 people in other places," Mr. Murtha said. Rep. Jose E. Serrano, New York Democrat, is outraged at what he calls the "arrogance" of the Navy. He said the people of Puerto Rico are "panicked" about their future without what is affectionately called "Rosey Roads." "I think it's punishment" for the protests, Mr. Serrano said. "We are being punished for winning an issue against the federal government. The Navy said, 'Oh yeah. We're going to fix you. We're going to close the base.' " Sen. James M. Inhofe, Oklahoma Republican and member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said he feels sorry for the people of Puerto Rico but that they were "lied to by their politicians" and the protest movement. "Puerto Rico used every unethical and illegal means to kick us off that live range," Mr. Inhofe said. The Senate passed its version of the defense appropriations bill last week. It did not contain language closing the base, but Mr. Inhofe said he expects the base-closing provision to survive in the final version to emerge from conference committee in the coming weeks. The property containing Roosevelt Roads has been appraised at $1.7 billion. After an environmental cleanup, which could cost around $300 million, the property will be sold with the proceeds going to the Department of Defense. Mr. Inhofe said not training at Vieques has increased the cost of necessary live-fire exercises elsewhere and has decreased the training's effectiveness because it is harder to integrate the exercises among the services. The Vieques property has been turned over to the Interior Department, which will retain possession. "There's a huge cost associated with losing that range," Mr. Inhofe said. Mr. Lewis told Delegate Anibal Acevedo-Vila, Puerto Rico Democrat, that he would "give all the support we possibly can" to replace the economic loss of the base closing. Mr. Murtha said previous base closings have come with $50 million to $100 million aid packages. Acevedo-Vila spokesman Paul Weiss would not disclose what kind of aid will be sought for Puerto Rico, and still held out hope the Navy would reconsider "rushing away from such a strategic location." Mr. Cunningham said he would oppose any aid package to make up for Roosevelt Roads. "They don't want us there," Mr. Cunningham said. "They had a chance to become a state and declined. They don't pay taxes." Mr. Inhofe said it's now too late to start worrying about the "natural outcome" of the Vieques protests. "That's their problem," Mr. Inhofe said. "The time for them to be concerned about that was when they were kicking us off our range. I told them this would happen."

07-22-2003, 09:10 AM	#2 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	never really cared about the bombin down there. i knew a lot of peeps out lookin for publicity went there to protest (al sharpton or jesse jackson, one of the two went there and got arrested). all i heard was that they should stop the bombin, but not a good reason why. __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

07-22-2003, 11:25 AM	#3 (permalink)
seretogis Huggles, sir? Location: Seattle	That story is pretty ridiculous, and can be seen as another example of the lack of foresight of the dem protestors. Why would we keep a base that we no longer have any use of? Think about the consequences of such action before protesting it. __________________ seretogis - sieg heil perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

07-22-2003, 11:51 AM	#4 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	A sterling example of the old adage, "Be careful what you wish for, because you may get it." __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

07-22-2003, 02:00 PM	#6 (permalink)
Phaenx The Northern Ward Location: Columbus, Ohio	No we don't. If they don't want to help the US, then we aren't obligated to help them. __________________ "I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy

07-22-2003, 01:42 PM	#5 (permalink)
Macheath Junkie Location: Sydney, Australia	You totally pull the plug on a economy, you've got a moral responsibility to help them try to get back on their feet, regardless of your personal sour grapes about the "protesters". Lewis knows this and that's why he discusses the prospect of some kind of economic support. Inhofe and Cunningham just sound bitter and twisted.

07-22-2003, 06:11 PM	#8 (permalink)
Phaenx The Northern Ward Location: Columbus, Ohio	Yes, they're a part of the US in the sense that we own their land, but we're in no way morally obligated to do anything for them because the military left their area. __________________ "I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy

07-22-2003, 07:56 PM	#12 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	ok, i was wrong there. well, they still have enough right to demand representation. if i'm not mistaken again, they do have representation in the house of rep's. so we cant just abandon the territory just cuz there is no base there. __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

07-22-2003, 08:16 PM	#14 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	lol, wrong again. http://clerk.house.gov/members/inter...p?statdis=PR00 that link lists him as a member of the house, or "Puerto Rico-Resident Commissioner". and the dude is a member of 3 house committees. __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

07-22-2003, 11:12 PM	#16 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	Macheath, Those are apples and oranges. The simple economic facts are that the base no longer has a reason to exist and should be shut down. This is not punishing the local economy anymore than it punishes the economies of the dozens of US cities that have lost military bases (including Denver's Fitzsimmons Army Hospital and Lowry AFB). Frankly, the suggestion that to do so is 'scor(ing) a few political points at home' is offensive to me, especially when you do not know all the facts and history of military base closings in the United States, it's territories and it's allied nations. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

07-28-2003, 07:26 AM	#17 (permalink)
Liquor Dealer Super Agitator Location: Just SW of Nowhere!!! In the good old US of A	Some people are just never satisfied!!! I had sworn to never post on the politics board again but simply could not let this one slide - Having spent time at Rosie Roads myself I find this rather amusing! Puerto Rico is saying this base closing is political and financial revenge! Could that happen? As the people in the parts of Texas that voted against Lyndon Johnson??? Lots of Texas bases went Bye Bye!!! http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,93029,00.html MIAMI — File this one under "Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it." The people of Puerto Rico are facing some unanticipated consequences from a victory they won in 2001. For several years, Puerto Rican protesters demanded that the U.S. Navy leave the island of Vieques. Groups staged violent protests outside the main gate of "Camp Garcia," saying they were sick and tired of the live-fire bombing exercises. The violence resulted in the gates of the base being torn down. Several U.S. troops and police dogs were injured in the demonstrations. In response to the years of protest, former President Clinton agreed to stop Navy exercises there. Congress and President Bush ratified the deal and live-fire exercises were halted last May. But with its mission muzzled after 60 years, the Navy has decided to pull out of Puerto Rico completely. That means the largest employer on the island, the Roosevelt Roads Naval Station, is now slated for closure that could come as early as October. Island workers are accusing the Navy of economic revenge. "You dedicate all your talents, all your efforts. You're loyal to your employer, this case being the U.S. Navy, and what do you get in return? A kick in the you-know-what," said Ana Angelet of the Puerto Rican chapter of the American Federation of Government Employees. The 2004 defense-spending bill that is working its way through Congress has a provision in it to close the base down officially. With the loss of the base, Puerto Rico will also lose nearly $300 million the military pumped into it each year. Puerto Ricans say the Navy is just mad because they won, and forced the live exercises to end. The Navy does not hide its disappointment. Navy officials say the location was long considered the best overall spot for exercises and stopping the live-fire training cost American military lives. Sen. James Inhofe, R-Okla., a member of the Armed Services Committee (search), said Puerto Rico's politicians are to blame for the financial misfortune since they backed the protests. "I just think it's a shame that the people, the ones that are suffering, are the people of Puerto Rico because it was the politicians that did it to them," Inhofe said. Puerto Rican Gov. Sila Calderon, who backed the booting of the Navy from Vieques, made no apologies for a decision that could crush the Puerto Rican economy. "We are partners with the U.S., but definitely the rights of the people of Vieques are not for sale or for any other purpose," Calderon said. She also refused to discuss the possibility that the base closure could become law. "This decision is not final at this point. The bill is not approved, and our aim as the commonwealth government is to have the decision postponed for 2005, when all the bases are going to be evaluated," she said. The U.S. government may decide to hold onto the more than 8,000 acres, rather than returning it to the people of Puerto Rico. "Those that don't want that to happen say well, 'Let's just give back to the Puerto Rican politicians,' and reward them with an asset that's worth $1.7 billion for kicking us off that range that has cost American lives. That's just not going to happen," Inhofe said. The sense on all sides is that Congress will give the green light to shut down "Rosie Roads" officially. Bush could sign the bill into law as early as next month __________________ Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

07-28-2003, 09:42 AM	#18 (permalink)
Dragonlich 42, baby! Location: The Netherlands	Isn't it the same story worldwide? Japanese people protesting US military bases on Okinawa, forgetting that without it, the economy would suffer; German people protesting the US, then being angry US bases are shut down, costing them money... Some people are just never satisfied. Perhaps the US should consider giving these people money for free - that might be okay with them. Or then again, probably not: you'd probably be accused of trying to "buy their support" or something.

07-28-2003, 11:29 AM	#19 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...threadid=17950 somebody beat ya to it. __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

07-28-2003, 11:41 AM	#20 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	BAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA this is just like what happened to the Philippines with Subic Bay and Clark Airbase... Yankees go home... and that they did... taking along with them their wallets and their disposable incomes. Be careful what you ask for you may just get it, and it may not really be what you wanted. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!