American political climate - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

TIO · 07-12-2003, 06:33 AM

I'm Australian, so I don't really know what the feeling on the streets is in America.

Judging by the amount of George-bashing I've seen lately, G.W.B. has plenty of opponents. I very rarely, if ever, read any material supporting him. At least, not in anything besides King Rupert's papers. But all the pundits seem to give him a good chance of winning in 2004. My question is, are there really many people around who think he's doing a good job? Why don't we hear more from them?

The_Dude · 07-12-2003, 07:07 AM

there are a lot of conservatives in this country, and i think that conservatives are less likely to openly express their views. (like go out and rally, unless it's a controversial topic like abortion or so).

there are a lot of evangalecial christians that are his power base.

supersix2 · 07-12-2003, 09:06 AM

We have a liberal bias in the media and therefore they show more anti-bush stuff. Also it is because, as The_Dude said, conservatives are less likely to go out and demonstrate because its not our style.

JumpinJesus · 07-12-2003, 09:06 AM

Depending on who you ask, you're going to get a lot of different views on the political climate here in the states.

I for one and somewhat cynical about our political agendas here. For one thing, we only know what is reported by the media and the media only reports what it wants us to know.

I could make this a lengthy treatise on how I feel about our president but I won't. Suffice to say I'm not a supporter. In some ways that seems to be a dangerous stance in this nation since there are a lot of "warnings" by the political right that those who don't support our president are aiding the enemy. What I would like to know is: who is the enemy? The only answer we seem to get here is: those who don't like freedom, or the terrorists or <i>them</i>.

We're not given a clear indication by our president who he believes the enemy is; he does, however, seem very eager to let us know that he is out there somewhere, just waiting to nail us so therefore we should place our undivided and unquestioning loyalty with him since he'll save us from them.

Many people here are only too glad to do it.

HarmlessRabbit · 07-12-2003, 09:40 AM

TIO

The truth is that neither the conservatives nor the liberals have a solid majority. Bush won in 2000 by a very slim margin, and really only won because a large number of people thought Gore was too moderate and voted for Nader. The Senate has been very evenly split for quite a while.

On the other hand, Bush handled the 9/11 crisis well in the opinion of many people. His record in Afghanistan and Iraq is less stellar, and I believe that he has done a terrible job with the USA economy, handling several crisis situations very badly with Enron, reform of the SEC, and talking down the economy during the .com crash. Other people will have different opinons, of course.

If things are going well, the incumbent president always has the upper hand. But, Bush Sr. was in much the same situation as Bush and lost due to a bad economy. The USA economic situation is pretty bad right now, and Bush has staked his reputation on his tax cuts stimulating the economy. The Iraq mess looks to be getting messier too. Bush's re-election will likely hinge on these two issues.

Out of the challengers so far, Dean and Kerry seem to be the front-runners. I like Dean, but I don't know much about him yet. Kerry rubs me the wrong way, he's a little too bush-lite, but I'd vote for either of them over Bush.

Lebell · 07-12-2003, 09:51 AM

Also, many people are feel the democrats are more "out of touch" with the general public when it comes to such issues as national defense, welfare, gun-control, etc.

The democrats can't seem to decide themselves what to believe or stand for.

Anyway, just remember that just because a group is vocal, doesn't mean their the majority.

The_Dude · 07-12-2003, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by HarmlessRabbit

Bush won in 2000 by a very slim margin, and really only won because a large number of people thought Gore was too moderate and voted for Nader.

actually, gore won the popular vote

Macheath · 07-12-2003, 03:06 PM

Seems like fear and loathing is keeping a big chunk of his support base intact; fear of the terrorists, loathing of those who don't get with the program.

Fear, being a negative emotion, is not the kind of thing that's going to get people out in a big parade or march to support him - what if there were some kind of terror alert?

Quite a few will probably "run the gauntlet" to their voting booth and then run back home and lock the doors.

reconmike · 07-12-2003, 04:49 PM

Fear huh?

I support bush because he doesnt fear. I really think he is not afraid of dems, world leaders, or his wife.

I live in the biggest metropolis in the world and I dont see any fear.

I think you have it wrong, the dems are the ones instilling fear....
Guns,guns,guns we need to get everyones guns.
We need laws to stop people from eating fatty foods, someone must be held acountable!

I could go on for hours with all the things the dems want to protect me from, that I can stop on my own.

inkriminator · 07-12-2003, 09:48 PM

According to a WashingtonPost poll ...

Article-Link

... Bush's approval rating has now dropped to 59%. If you are gauging his popularity by online forums like this, then you are generally going to have a bias against conservatives b/c of who frequents these places.

TIO · 07-13-2003, 01:45 AM

Thanks for the answers, everyone! It's great to find a place on the web where I can get unbiased, level-headed comments like that...too frequently it seems that any discussion of politics quickly turns into a shitfight, and nothing constructive gets said at all.

rogue49 · 07-13-2003, 11:23 AM

Actually, I'm finding more & more conservatives
that are not quite satisfied with how the Bush Administration is working.
I think the actions of Ashcroft are getting to be a drag.
And there are other domestic & economic issues that are hurting him too.

It's going to be interesting going into the campaigns last days next year.

Lebell · 07-13-2003, 12:15 PM

I agree, rogue.

I know from some other sites that conservatives are just as alarmed at the implications of the Patriot Act (and the Patriot Act II) as liberals.

TIO · 07-13-2003, 10:25 PM

Next question: what is the patriot act? Again, I've seen people up in arms about it, but I've never been able to find out what it actually is.

Sparhawk · 07-14-2003, 04:45 AM

Did a google search for it, here's my "feeling lucky" hit:

http://www.eff.org/Privacy/Surveilla...t_analysis.php

It's an analysis by the Electronic Frontier Foundation, an organization dedicated to defending civil rights as they relate to technology. *shrug*

TIO · 07-14-2003, 07:11 AM

Thanks for the link, Sparhawk.
The new powers sound pretty scary. Weren't there riots or anything when they were announced? It seems hard to credit that people would just accept something like that.

Sparhawk · 07-14-2003, 09:28 AM

That's a European and Seattle/L.A. thing. I can't remember the last time there were riots here on the East Coast, much less middle America.

Anyway, one of the ironies of present-day america is you can slap "Patriot" or "Freedom" or "Liberty" onto any piece of fascist garbage you want, and it'll get voted into law.

07-12-2003, 06:33 AM	#1 (permalink)
TIO Addict Location: The Land Down Under	American political climate I'm Australian, so I don't really know what the feeling on the streets is in America. Judging by the amount of George-bashing I've seen lately, G.W.B. has plenty of opponents. I very rarely, if ever, read any material supporting him. At least, not in anything besides King Rupert's papers. But all the pundits seem to give him a good chance of winning in 2004. My question is, are there really many people around who think he's doing a good job? Why don't we hear more from them?

07-12-2003, 07:07 AM	#2 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	there are a lot of conservatives in this country, and i think that conservatives are less likely to openly express their views. (like go out and rally, unless it's a controversial topic like abortion or so). there are a lot of evangalecial christians that are his power base. __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

07-12-2003, 09:06 AM	#4 (permalink)
JumpinJesus Junkie Location: Chicago	Depending on who you ask, you're going to get a lot of different views on the political climate here in the states. I for one and somewhat cynical about our political agendas here. For one thing, we only know what is reported by the media and the media only reports what it wants us to know. I could make this a lengthy treatise on how I feel about our president but I won't. Suffice to say I'm not a supporter. In some ways that seems to be a dangerous stance in this nation since there are a lot of "warnings" by the political right that those who don't support our president are aiding the enemy. What I would like to know is: who is the enemy? The only answer we seem to get here is: those who don't like freedom, or the terrorists or <i>them</i>. We're not given a clear indication by our president who he believes the enemy is; he does, however, seem very eager to let us know that he is out there somewhere, just waiting to nail us so therefore we should place our undivided and unquestioning loyalty with him since he'll save us from them. Many people here are only too glad to do it. __________________ "I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am" - Cormac McCarthy, All The Pretty Horses

07-12-2003, 09:51 AM	#6 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	Also, many people are feel the democrats are more "out of touch" with the general public when it comes to such issues as national defense, welfare, gun-control, etc. The democrats can't seem to decide themselves what to believe or stand for. Anyway, just remember that just because a group is vocal, doesn't mean their the majority. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

07-12-2003, 04:49 PM	#9 (permalink)
reconmike Thank You Jesus Location: Twilight Zone	Fear huh? I support bush because he doesnt fear. I really think he is not afraid of dems, world leaders, or his wife. I live in the biggest metropolis in the world and I dont see any fear. I think you have it wrong, the dems are the ones instilling fear.... Guns,guns,guns we need to get everyones guns. We need laws to stop people from eating fatty foods, someone must be held acountable! I could go on for hours with all the things the dems want to protect me from, that I can stop on my own. __________________ Where is Darwin when ya need him?

07-12-2003, 09:06 AM	#3 (permalink)
supersix2 Insane Location: Houston	We have a liberal bias in the media and therefore they show more anti-bush stuff. Also it is because, as The_Dude said, conservatives are less likely to go out and demonstrate because its not our style.

07-12-2003, 09:40 AM	#5 (permalink)
HarmlessRabbit Junkie Location: San Jose, CA	TIO The truth is that neither the conservatives nor the liberals have a solid majority. Bush won in 2000 by a very slim margin, and really only won because a large number of people thought Gore was too moderate and voted for Nader. The Senate has been very evenly split for quite a while. On the other hand, Bush handled the 9/11 crisis well in the opinion of many people. His record in Afghanistan and Iraq is less stellar, and I believe that he has done a terrible job with the USA economy, handling several crisis situations very badly with Enron, reform of the SEC, and talking down the economy during the .com crash. Other people will have different opinons, of course. If things are going well, the incumbent president always has the upper hand. But, Bush Sr. was in much the same situation as Bush and lost due to a bad economy. The USA economic situation is pretty bad right now, and Bush has staked his reputation on his tax cuts stimulating the economy. The Iraq mess looks to be getting messier too. Bush's re-election will likely hinge on these two issues. Out of the challengers so far, Dean and Kerry seem to be the front-runners. I like Dean, but I don't know much about him yet. Kerry rubs me the wrong way, he's a little too bush-lite, but I'd vote for either of them over Bush.

07-12-2003, 03:06 PM	#8 (permalink)
Macheath Junkie Location: Sydney, Australia	Seems like fear and loathing is keeping a big chunk of his support base intact; fear of the terrorists, loathing of those who don't get with the program. Fear, being a negative emotion, is not the kind of thing that's going to get people out in a big parade or march to support him - what if there were some kind of terror alert? Quite a few will probably "run the gauntlet" to their voting booth and then run back home and lock the doors.

07-12-2003, 09:48 PM	#10 (permalink)
inkriminator Insane	According to a WashingtonPost poll ... Article-Link ... Bush's approval rating has now dropped to 59%. If you are gauging his popularity by online forums like this, then you are generally going to have a bias against conservatives b/c of who frequents these places.

07-13-2003, 01:45 AM	#11 (permalink)
TIO Addict Location: The Land Down Under	Thanks for the answers, everyone! It's great to find a place on the web where I can get unbiased, level-headed comments like that...too frequently it seems that any discussion of politics quickly turns into a shitfight, and nothing constructive gets said at all. __________________ Strewth

07-13-2003, 11:23 AM	#12 (permalink)
rogue49 Loser	Actually, I'm finding more & more conservatives that are not quite satisfied with how the Bush Administration is working. I think the actions of Ashcroft are getting to be a drag. And there are other domestic & economic issues that are hurting him too. It's going to be interesting going into the campaigns last days next year.

07-13-2003, 12:15 PM	#13 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	I agree, rogue. I know from some other sites that conservatives are just as alarmed at the implications of the Patriot Act (and the Patriot Act II) as liberals. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

07-13-2003, 10:25 PM	#14 (permalink)
TIO Addict Location: The Land Down Under	Next question: what is the patriot act? Again, I've seen people up in arms about it, but I've never been able to find out what it actually is. __________________ Strewth

07-14-2003, 04:45 AM	#15 (permalink)
Sparhawk Dubya Location: VA	Did a google search for it, here's my "feeling lucky" hit: http://www.eff.org/Privacy/Surveilla...t_analysis.php It's an analysis by the Electronic Frontier Foundation, an organization dedicated to defending civil rights as they relate to technology. shrug __________________ "In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

07-14-2003, 07:11 AM	#16 (permalink)
TIO Addict Location: The Land Down Under	Thanks for the link, Sparhawk. The new powers sound pretty scary. Weren't there riots or anything when they were announced? It seems hard to credit that people would just accept something like that. __________________ Strewth

07-14-2003, 09:28 AM	#17 (permalink)
Sparhawk Dubya Location: VA	That's a European and Seattle/L.A. thing. I can't remember the last time there were riots here on the East Coast, much less middle America. Anyway, one of the ironies of present-day america is you can slap "Patriot" or "Freedom" or "Liberty" onto any piece of fascist garbage you want, and it'll get voted into law. __________________ "In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."