dc_dux

There is no evidence in exit polls or post-election polling data that the anti-Pelosi message worked.

There is little evidence that the bills you dont like (bad bills) had any impact.

The demagoguery of Pelosi was political theater - a sidebar to make the extremists happy.

The Democrats lost for one reason - because they were not able to turn the economy around quickly enough, even though the stimulus stopped the economy from an even greater collapse (according to a broad consensus of economists across the political spectrum...with the exception, of course, of the libertarians).

__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

Willravel

I live less than 45 minutes south of San Francisco and I'm there at least twice a month.

I made my grandmother homemade chicken soup (Alton Brown's recipe) this morning because she has a cold. My neighbor, a Vietnam vet, is going blind, so I take out his trash and help with his landscaping. I pay all my taxes on time. I'm a small business owner and if things keep going the way they're going, I might have to hire on people at a respectable wage. I've voted in every election since I was 18. I support other local businesses. I'm not in debt. I donate to charity.

What exactly is it about San Fransisco liberals that would make you think we don't have "American values"? Is it because I don't want to prevent people in love from getting married, violating the 14th Amendment? Maybe it's because I don't like it when our troops are killed in a country that was never a threat to our country? Oh, I know! It's because I believe in the wall of separation between church and state!

I wonder which values Representative Pelosi lacks that people in North Carolina have. I have family in North Carolina (a blue state now). Maybe I can ask them why they're real Americans and I'm not.

Tully Mars

I'm really sick of the "real American" BS line being used by the right.

__________________
I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo

Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

YaWhateva

And those are people with 'real American values' while people from San Francisco cannot fathom what those are? That line of thinking is ridiculous. Am I less real of an American with real American values because I'm from New Mexico than someone from Alabama? Am I more real than someone from New York? It makes absolutely no sense.

__________________
“If the Americans go in and overthrow Saddam Hussein and it's clean, he has nothing, I will apologize to the nation, and I will not trust the Bush administration again.” - Bill O'Reilly

"This is my United States of Whateva!"

Baraka_Guru

This is interesting. We get the same pattern we've been seeing since the beginning of the Obama administration, this elitism vs. populism. Pelosi is some kind of west coast liberal poster child, Obama is some kind of Chicago backroom politico, etc., etc. They're destroying America with their strong-arming of anti-American values, the republic is at risk, they're out of touch with the American people, blah, blah, blah.

I never really analyzed it, but I always felt the general perception of Pelosi was a bit fabricated. Post-Bush Republicans have done nothing constructive except where they wish to simultaneously mislead and pander to the public with cheap populist rhetoric. "Pelosi must go because she is a complete failure." "Obama is a complete failure, so we must take back the House."

But to get there you must create narratives that people will not only buy but will relate to others around them. Since Republicans have nothing to go on after Bush self-destructed what was left of Republican integrity, they must fill the vacuous void with something that will build a bridge between a mythical Reagan and the next presidential election. So they raise Reagan's spirit and seek to infuse it into a Republican hopeful, all the while they fight the Democrats, keeping them at bay using any method necessary. Fiction works well.

And so here on TFP, the question of "real American values" has come up. What sort of fictions have the Republicans been telling about that concept? Aren't real American values simply living free, working hard, and following your dreams? I'm pretty sure Pelosi and Obama are the epitome of that.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Willravel

Jeez. Just because I eat babies...

filtherton

You lost me here. You seem to be referencing the pop psychology notion that men are from mars and women are from venus, but I'm pretty sure that you're not trying to attribute our differences of opinion to the fact that we aren't of the same gender, since I'm fairly certain that we are both dudes.

And somehow we went from talking about politics to talking about street fighting. Let me assure you that I am fully aware that the tactics required to win an election differ from the tactics required to survive random urban assault. I'm not sure what this has to do with Nancy Pelosi's ability to "overcome" the right wing messaging machine.

Well played, sir.

silent_jay

...

aceventura3

Perhaps there are other means for uncovering facts. But, it does not matter - believe what you want.

How about this fact on health care reform:

Number of uninsured U.S. adults hits record high - USATODAY.com

Bad legislation! Premiums going up, more uninsured, less choices, they even said let's get it passed and then fix it and they can not communicate why the bill is a good bill to the public. You think this is good leadership?

Are you ignoring facts? What happened in the elections was not about extremists.

They made the economy worse.

---------- Post added at 04:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:31 PM ----------

What do they have against Happy Meals???? Let's start with that. 20% of the working population in this country worked at McDonald's at one time, about 60 million. I would guess almost every child has enjoyed a Happy Meal. Let parents, parent - isn;t that an American value.

---------- Post added at 04:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:36 PM ----------

I am the "right", I admit it and I am open about it - I love talking politics and I will even start a conversation standing in line at the grocery store. What I wrote was based on hundreds of either short or long conversations with people - those were their words. Some conservative, many middle of the road, and even some who voted for Obama.

If you are inclined, go out and talk to 25 people, outside of your normal circle, about politics over the weekend and tell us what you find.

---------- Post added at 04:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:42 PM ----------

Again, not my words.

Here is my take on this based on my conversations. Most of these people live their day to day lives and don't get passionate about politics, but what has been occurring has sparked a passion that they don't normally have - many are for lack of a better term, p!ssed off, and they do think their way of life is being threatened. Like I suggested above, go out and talk to people and see, again people who would not normally talk to and listen.

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

dc_dux

ace, never let the facts get in the way of your American values! You really stepped in it this time.

Sure, the number of uninsured and the cost of premiums have gone up in the last year.....both have gone up for the last 10+ years.

So you blame the health care reform enacted this year, most of which wont go into effect until 2014....and that the majority of Americans dont want repealed, despite all the demagoguery and outright lies about the legislation by the right.

The only thing you have demonstrated is that those on the right have values that are no more American than anyone elses....they are just more intolerant of opposing views.

__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

aceventura3

Don't make your issues, my issues.

Take Lisa (voter intent) Merkusky in AK. She could have played by the rules and given a passive endorsement to the guy who won the primary. But she did not. She ran a write in campaign and she is going to win. She sees things the way I do, you fight to win. Miller ran too far right, and thought he was sitting pretty, but got sucker punched.

Ironically, I would not have voted for Murkoyski in the primary, but I would have voted for her in the general - I did not know she was a fighter - my kind of person. You and Pelosi seem to blame others

My point had nothing to do with gender.

Pelosi is a victim, Pelosi has no responsibility in the recent slaughter, isn't that the argument? Fighters don't have that attitude.

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

mixedmedia

whoo boy, ya got love it when the argument comes down to 'people with real American values,' catchphrase for 'Americans who think just like me'

I'm an American and I assert that my values are both real and American.

What's more, my parents live in NC and they're both hardworking (now retired) liberals and I assert that their values are both real and American, too. They are comfortable money-wise, maybe even well-off by some standards, yet they live modestly, give freely, pay their taxes and obey the law. Ooh, lawdy, the horror.

It's really sickening, how nonchalantly conservatives dismiss what is still a very prevalent and meaningful sector of the American populace as 'not really American-like.' pfft. Do you ever stop to ask yourself who the hell you think you are when you and your friends go blathering on about 'real Americans'?

Yet somehow we are the elitists. Unbelievable.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

aceventura3

I know the trends, my point is that legislation could have been passed that had an immediate impact on improving the trends and I would have considered that good legislation. In addition I see no evidence that the legislation will do what was promised and they even said that they would need to fix it. There are a few threads on this topic, my position is go all the way with single payer or fine tune the system as suggested by many Republicans - what we have now is an unfolding disaster.

---------- Post added at 05:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:04 PM ----------

Again, I share my personal experiences and I paraphrase what I hear - I am like the messenger. Similar to another exchange, it seems that putting a real issue on the table is met with contempt. Do you want to pretend the feeling I described are not real? Again, I say put them on the table and discuss them.

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

mixedmedia

Maybe you're not aware of it, but you and your friends are not the only ones who are outraged. My mother has been in a continual state of 'pissed off' ever since Reagan. That's a very real issue, too, but somehow it's not quite as media sexy nor, apparently, as 'American.' Therefore, no, I'm not particularly interested in hearing from you why you and your friends are pissed off because if I turn on the television THAT'S ALL I HEAR.

Funny, that.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Baraka_Guru

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

roachboy

personally, i think the democrats got into trouble because they didn't distance themselves far enough fast enough from the record of disaster left behind by the bush people. the worst decision was keeping on geithner, bernake et al from the bad old days of the previous administration.

this from james galbraith:

James K. Galbraith: Obama's Problem Simply Defined: It Was the Banks

all that compounded by the problem of centrism, which is a focus on near-term tactical matters often to the exclusion of an overall plan or idea, which is a real Problem in the current mercenary conservative-newcycle-driven "free press"...

i still marvel sometimes at the magnitude of the shit sandwich handed us by the right and the fact that they've been able to meme their way out of a richly deserved oblivion...

obviously the "problem" is nancy pelosi.

fucking chumps.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

aceventura3

Read what I wrote. The message I shared is not from "my friends".

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

mixedmedia

they are chumps. shadowboxing with the liberal menace. it's the only pleasure I can take from the whole pathetic business.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Willravel

I know it's popular to be libertarian these days, but this issue needs to be put in the proper context. Children are not allowed to smoke. It's not because we hate business and want to put working people in the tobacco industry out on the street, but because the consequence of smoking has been clearly, consistently, and repeatedly verified to the point of medical certainty. Smoking causes cancer. Smoking is physically dangerous. While adults shouldn't be prevented from purchasing cigarettes, the fact is that children are still developing the ability to determine right and wrong. Children aren't able to vote, fight in a war, and enjoy other liberties adults enjoy because they are still developing the ability to understand the real world consequences for their decisions.

Happy meals include a hamburger, French fries, a soda, and a toy. The hamburger and French fries are very high in salt and fat, each of which have been demonstrated to have a causal link to heart disease (much the same way smoking has been linked to cancer). The soda is very high in processed sugar, which has been demonstrated to have a causal link to diabetes. These are not opinions, but rather facts. Worse still, like nicotine-packed cigarettes, high sugar and high fat fast food is addictive.

I'm going to make this very clear: Happy Meals are like when cigarettes are marketed directly to children. They're seeking to take advantage of a group of people who are still developing the cognitive ability to make an informed choice about endangering their health.

But we all know you weren't referring to Happy Meals above when discussing Pelosi and San Francisco. I'd like you to say what you mean and mean what you say. I've never once thought that the red areas of the country are disloyal or don't have people with values. I'd like to understand why I'm not extended the same courtesy.

aceventura3

This is getting hilarious. We have had the biggest resurgence in conservatism in the history of this country and some here want to pretend it did not happen or that it was simply because of the economy. Two years ago, we had speculation about the death of the Republican party in some threads, and within that time-frame there was a shifting of sentiment, a shift anyone could see and feel if they took the time to see it. It has been the arrogance of the President and Pelosi that prevented them from responding to the shift. The economy was a symptom of the problem, not the cause

---------- Post added at 06:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:37 PM ----------

You paint with a very broad brush. Are you sure that is your position? Are the people who voted in Congressional races, state, and local races, sending a resounding message that there was a need for a new direction, all are "chumps"?

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

Tully Mars

Well since I live in Mexico I highly doubt your "experiment?" would work well for me.

If I were in the states I think even if I found people who disagreed with me, which would likely not be difficult, I'm certain I'd still think they were "real Americans."

When Bush Jr. was in office many folks on the right used to say "no matter how you feel about the man, he's the POTUS and out of respect of the office it's wrong to speak ill of him... especially during time of war." Now many of those same "real Americans" are talking about Obama and calling him everything but human. Hypocrites, bloody hypocrites.

__________________
I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo

Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

aceventura3

Extending your argument - is anything unsafe off limits for children?

Remember this guy from the 1970 TV special Santa Clause is Coming to Town, the Burgermeister Meisterburge?



You and the folks from SF can have the wold he wanted.

In my view it is symbolic of what Pelosi represents, nothing more.

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

roachboy

right, ace dear.

just a little flick of the wheel and you run right off Reality Street again...

now if i understand this newest confection that you're trying out

you wander around stopping people in gas stations and mcdonalds in the area where you live and button-hole them into "political conservations"

which if the way you comport yourself here are any indications are likely to be these unhinged little fact-free digressions

that may elicit agreement because people may well tell you what you want to hear just so you'll go away.

....but no matter.....

and on the basis of this Important Research, you've concluded what no-one else anywhere has

which is that the results of the mid-terms reflect some kind of non-reactive "conservative resurgence" and the economy has nothing to do with it.

wow.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

aceventura3

I am guilty as charged. I have no defense, but I was saying I did not trust Obama long before he became President.

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

Willravel

Please list one thing that is both proven to be a health risk and is also addictive that you believe children should have access to. I can't think of anything, but they say two heads are better than one.
I'm asking you to elaborate. It would seem to be more than just the government getting between children and dangerous and addictive things.

aceventura3

It ain't complicated. The results of the election speak for themselves. If you did not see it coming, if you don't understand why it happened - that's you with your head in the sand.

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

Tully Mars

How does your distrust of Obama have anything to do with making it ok to be hypocritical now? I'm sure a lot of those who called Bush Jr. all kinds of nasty things didn't trust him before he was elected too.

---------- Post added at 01:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:01 PM ----------

I think you guys on the right are making conclusions about this election that might come back to bite you in the ass.

__________________
I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo

Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

filtherton

Is Dunning-Krueger the correct spelling for this type of thing?

aceventura3

Endorphins. In some cases endorphins can be harmful and addictive. I would not pass legislation disallowing children to engage in activities that produce endorphins. Would you?

Before I go through an exercise of giving example after example, are you suggesting that SF does not have a unique culture? Then speaking in generalities which is all we can do are you suggesting the SF culture (assuming you think there is one) mainstream?

---------- Post added at 07:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:05 PM ----------

It does not make it o.k. I should show more respect to the office. I believe I have crossed the line in being disrespectful on some occasions. The post I responded to helped me see that and that I have been hypocritical. Now my challenge is to stop.

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

Willravel

The blood-brain barrier prevents too many from getting access to the brain, so I'm not sure how they could be harmful.
While different areas of the United States have different cultures, none are more or less American than any other. While different areas of the United States have a multitude of people with different values and ideologies, none of them are more or less American than any other. Those are my assertions. You are no more or less American than I am, and to suggest otherwise is to commit a terribly unfair No True Scotsman.

aceventura3

There has been studies involving adults who get addicted to the endorphin rush from exercise and sex. In children there have been links with endorphins and video game addiction. but, you wanted an example - I gave one, now you want to debate the example rather than the issue? Seems like an endless cycle.

First, there is a problem in how we define the term. For example NASCAR does not reflect mainstream America, NASCAR is unique to the people who enjoy it. I would not say American values are reflected in NASCAR culture. I personally agree with you.

I think there are some cultures that are leading edge. I believe history has shown that some things that become a part of mainstream culture germinate in certain areas. 20 years ago, I remember consistently saying trends starting in NY and CA would spread across the country. I saw those areas as cutting edge.

Before moving on, do you see that, do you agree?

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

mixedmedia

um, hmmmm, uhhh. yes.
There is a current struggle in this country between moderation and ultra-right politics. If you've cast a vote against 'liberalism' in (at least) the last three decades then you have in reality cast a vote for ultra right conservatism. And since (I can only hope) not all of the people out there voting against the 'scary socialist politics' of the entirely middle-of-the-road present day Democratic party would like to think of themselves as ultra-rightists (I'm pretty sure of that), it is plain to me that they've been, yeah, duped. Chumps. That is indeed what I think.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Willravel

You met only one criteria. I agree endorphins can be addictive, but they're not dangerous. Happy Meals aren't just addictive. Regular intake of Happy Meals will increase your risk of heart disease and diabetes the same way regular intake of cigarette smoke will increase you risk of cancer. Regular endoirphin use does not have a corresponding increase in a health risk.
You're original quote was about "values" specifically. You mentioned culture in your previous post, so you're welcome to define it as you see fit, but I see it as a bit off topic from the question I posed. This started with your suggestion that Pelosi, along with other people from my home, somehow don't have or have less American values.
Cultural centers tend to yield cultural trends, yes. When did we stop talking about values?

roachboy

nice, filtherton.


dunning-kruger:

Dunning?Kruger effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

aceventura3

If I vote against people who want to ban Happy Meals, ban certain fats, sugary drinks, ban gun ownership, ban my health care choices, raise my taxes, force union membership, force electric car use, control my wages, etc., etc., that means my vote is for ultra-right conservatism? Got it, color me a chump.

---------- Post added at 08:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:03 PM ----------

An addiction to video games can be pretty dangerous to the social, physical and mental development of a child. Perhaps, you can read some of the information on the subject. Having a 13 year old son, I see the potential problems. By the way Call of Duty Black Ops, sold $340 million in its first 24 hours. My son was not allowed to get a copy at midnight on a school night no less, he described many of his friends the next day at school as "zombies". They were up all night playing the game.

So again, I don't think I am special. I just observe what is happening. Like many things, not you specifically, but many want to pretend problems are not real. What I describe can be very dangerous to children, and parents need to get involved.

For example at one point view of homosexuality in this country was at a low level, call it X. A SF man, Harvey Milk (ed.) came along and moved X in a positive direction. I vaguely remember his fight with the "orange juice lady" I don't recall her name, but the movie about his life refreshed my memory. In that case a SF value, in my view became a US value (and the nation is still moving in that direction), now from a liberal governing point of view I see a nation revolting against what Pelosi represents. It seems clear to me, but the message may be getting lost in finding the correct words.

---------- Post added at 08:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:16 PM ----------

Funny, you folks got all the answers, yet you are not out solving the world's problems. Why are you wasting your valuable skills here?

How about some more name calling to the people who have a different view point? That never gets old.

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

Willravel

Endorphins do not cause your son to stay up playing video games. The release of endorphins may correlate with staying up all night, but they don't cause it. You're thinking of adrenaline. Second, you're comparing Call of Duty and not finishing homework to heart disease, diabetes, and cancer. You're being intellectually dishonest, Ace. If you can't think of an example of something which is both addictive and dangerous which you think children should have access to, admit it and let's move on.
What it seems like you're saying is that it's not that we here in San Francisco don't have American values, we just have new values first. That seems to be true on some things, like homosexuality, but I don't know that's true as a rule. Still, what it seems like you're saying and what I think you're saying are two different things. What I think you're actually thinking is that liberals (like those in San Fransisco) pull moderates and conservatives into new things and you don't like that; it makes you uncomfortable because you feel like you're betraying your old values.

filtherton

I wouldn't dream of it.

This doesn't make any sense. If Murkowski "broke the rules" by running as a write-in candidate then Pelosi is arguably "breaking the rules" by attempting to retain her leadership position even though Sean Hannity and aceventura think she shouldn't. So she is a fighter, and is probably somewhere punching somebody in the face as we speak.

And there's nothing wrong with blaming the people who deserve blame- attribution of responsibility is just one of the ways in which rational people use logic to make sense of the world. I guarantee that Murkowski will blame Miller if he succeeds in getting enough write-in ballots tossed for her to lose the election.


I didn't think it did, but you used the Mars/Venus line, which is a direct (though unintentional?) reference to a book about gender relations.

Pelosi arguably doesn't have responsibility in the recent slaughter. And it is entirely factual to say that she has suffered slights from the right wing media. And it is entirely plausible that if she were to be replaced with someone else, that person would also suffer similarly.

What this has to do with fighting is beyond me. Is your premise that the fact that Pelosi isn't embracing the way the right wing has distorted reality means that she isn't a fighter? That's dumb. Fighters are people who fight for what they think is right, a characteristic which generally has nothing to do with a willingness to embrace the slander of their antagonists.

I don't have all the answers and I recognize that fact. There are whole mountains of things that I don't understand. I do typically know enough to know when I don't actually understand something. You should give it a try.

There is a difference between having a "different" viewpoint and having a view point that behaves like a newtonian fluid. Besides, weren't you the accusing those who disagree with you of having unamerican values?

aceventura3

Do you play video games? Do you know people who do? Do you know people who will play for 8 hours straight with little or no break? Here is what can happen, in the excitement of a video game the player may become total engrossed getting what some call a runners high. The endorphin released during such a high can be like morphine. It can be like a serious pain killer, the player becomes numb. There is a sensory deprivation that occurs at the same time there are spurts of adrenalin rushes. Thrill seekers go through a similar process and if addicted there is a need for greater and greater risk to achieve the same high. Like I said, if interested, look into it. I have not done any scientific studies nor am I a scientist. I have seen this phenomenon, it is real and in my view for some people can be dangerous.

Is your point that, this is not a real danger? What are you saying? Are you saying it is a problem but I am not crafting the problem correctly? Gee, my gut tells me no matter what I present here, someone will have a problem with it.

No, I am not.

Come on, you can not seriously be saying that you are unaware of the extent of this issue, are you? If a child spends 50 to 60 hours per week playing video games, and it happens, I would argue it will have a bigger impact on all phases of their lives than even most illegal drugs and alcohol.

O.k., you don't think its a problem, I do - move on.

I said history has shown there are examples of that.

Certainly not any longer.

What I like is not in question. There is a national rejection of SF style liberalism, voters made that clear. Pelosi, in the minds of many represents that and many politicians ran and won races touting that message.

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

roachboy

you know, it's friday afternoon.

one of my unamerican activities on friday afternoons is to stop what i am doing and dance around to music, preferably with vocals that aren't in english, while imbibing a frou frou beverage.

later i shall disparage regular american values using the sort of pretentious vocabulary that only a virtuouso of conservative persecution could muster.

then maybe deep in the night i will go to the crossroads and summon my minions. we will ride out on horseback to kidnap sleeping real americans in the night. because the law is drawn to the guilty, we shall dispense with niceties like facts and proceed straight to being very bad people and dispatch real americans in an auto-da-fé.

later i shall publish my memoirs and be disarmingly frank about the whole thing.

join me if you'd care to.

shall we get started?

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

aceventura3

My take was more with "people" with different thought processes and the the use of man/woman was figurative. I saw application in all types of relationships and all types of people.

Based on everything else you have written, we have very different thought processes. I don't understand what you are saying or your points at all. I have a divide with most here, but our divide seems to be much greater, I don't even know what to say to garner any progress at all.

---------- Post added at 10:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:00 PM ----------

I have asked this before and did not see a response, are you actually a moderator? If so, what is your role? How do you think you are doing?

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."