Baraka_Guru

Well, apparently this has been brewing in Beck's circle for a while now. The clip below has a strong parallel to Beck's rally, yet it was posted a year ago today. It appears that turning back to God is essential for saving the republic from the evil changes wrought by the godless socialists, radical Marxists, and "Darwin atheists" (not to mention the eugenics of Planned Parenthood):

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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Wes Mantooth

Lets face it the Glenn Becks of the world and the "Glenn Beck philosophy" has been around for ages in one form or another and in much uglier packages wielding a lot more power. What makes this guy so special? Because he's the rights newest pop star? America has survived much worse then Glenn Beck and his traveling tea party circus, you're giving him a lot more credit then he deserves. Glenn Beck will drop this Tea Party stuff the minute the next Republican golden boy shows up at the GOP convention and back the GOP hard down the stretch like the vast majority of the right will...Do you think Fox is going to let him keep that nice afternoon time slot when he's backing candidates nobodies ever heard of or plans to vote for?

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Tully Mars

That sounds awfully familiar... Hmm... yes it almost sounds like "that depends on what your definition is is."

When he goes on the radio and makes up a story about Barbara Walters and Whoopi Goldberg he's being dishonest... he lying. And when he got called on it he really had no defense.

Or are you saying he's so delusional he believes the lies he tells therefore he's not actually lying?

Personally I think he knows it's bull shit. Here's a link to a video showing Beck using Vick's vapor rub to make himself cry. The person that sent it to me said something like "here's proof Beck's tears are all an act." I watched and my first take was no this is beck doing photo shoot for some promo and and he hamming it up. But as I watched, about half way through, he states some thing like "it's not working well, my eye are too use to it." I think it's seriously possible he using it all the time, don't think your eyes could get usued to vicks in a one day, one time photo shoot.

He tells people what they want to hear and those people think "yea, that's right."

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I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo

Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

ratbastid

And I'm saying, his sincere-to-the-point-of-tears act notwithstanding, I don't have anything like the facts I'd need to come to any such conclusion.

Look: we've watched men tirade passionately against gay rights on the floor of congress, and then go solicit gay sex in airport bathrooms. And you'd have watched their firey conservative rhetoric and said, well agree or disagree with what he's saying, there's a guy whose convictions are behind his words. And then before long he's getting a blow job in a bathroom stall. So.

I think Beck is actually "conservative", whatever it is he means by that. I think the full agenda of the "conservative" "movement" is completely unclear to 99% of those who consider themselves members. I think the people he's shepherding around aren't aware of the depth of the pockets they're lining. I think Beck is in bed with some MAJOR players in business and the media, and he's voicing their agenda to an audience of suckers. That's what I think.

mixedmedia

The distribution of political philosophy is completely dominated by media outlets.

What has the media sold to us as 'reality' in the last decade or so? I'd call it sensationalism. And now sensationalism is what motivates people to buy media content - whether it is a book, or a news broadcast, or a candidate. Sensation-alism makes you feel good, it's entertainment. Suffice it to say, I think a lot of people didn't notice that the same techniques being used to sell them 'reality shows' started being used to sell them politics...particularly after 9/11.

At least this is the idea that is swimming around in my head this morning...kind of makes sense to me, though.

Therefore, I am about as convinced of the sincerity of Glen Beck's show as I am of the sincerity of the ladies on 'Real Housewives of New Jersey.' Which would be very little.

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Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

ASU2003

You should make this thread in the Economic forum. This is where economics, theory, and local/federal government all come together.

And it's not too pretty.

Baraka_Guru

QFT

The people with whom you disagree are making the sky fall.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Wes Mantooth

AUS isn't there already a thread over there on taxes...besides, I really don't have that firm of a grasp on the issue it would work a lot better started by somebody else.

On the topic of the thread. The media has changed a lot over the last decade or two and sensationalism does sell, I would imagine that's why groups like the Tea Party and people like Glenn Beck get are so much more visible then they would have been in previous decades. People like turning on the tv and being outraged by Glenn Becks latest antics or in turn shouting "amen!". As long as he stays controversial and embraces all things fringe while there is precious little else going on in Republican land he'll keep getting big ratings, attract large crowds and be happy to do it...I'm sure Rupert Murdoch doesn't mind either.

Anyway whats the big concern? They've always been around, heck the Tea Party values (whatever I can gather about them anyway) used to just be mainstream conservatism and probably shared somewhat by everybody in mainstream America. Doesn't it speak volumes that in 2010 those same values are now seen as right wing fringe and dismissed by large numbers of people.

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mixedmedia

Thank you. I'm glad it makes sense to you, too.

And it occurred to me on the way to the grocery store that this new and delicious way of framing politics for easy public consumption could be directly responsible for the feeling of political empowerment so many, um, (I'm trying to be kinder in my choice of words today) so I will say 'simple thinkers' are feeling these days.

There really is no way of being nice about it, though - doesn't mean I hate them or wish them harm. But I will always be a snob in favor of openness, tolerance and intellectualism and don't want much to do with a society that doesn't favor them.

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Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Baraka_Guru

Yeah, it's unfortunate that we're surrounded by anti-intellectualism even today. If you consider it globally, it's everywhere, ranging from national news media, religious fundamentalism, and populist surges to authoritarian states such as China and Iran, authoritarian social concepts such as nationalism and patriotism, and, at worst, fascism.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

roachboy

a small string of things from hannah arendt which seem germaine:

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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

mixedmedia

well, that leaves you with a warm, fuzzy feeling all around.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Baraka_Guru

More from the wisdom of Glenn Beck:

Beck: "We have been setting up re-education camps. We call them universities" | Media Matters for America [embedded video]

According to him, universities are "just as dangerous with indoctrination of our children" as terror groups.

Warm and fuzzy indeed.

The fungus on the surface thing is an apt description of what Beck does. I watched much of his Sept. 1st show, and it was incredible how much he parsed things and removed context to fit his message, not to mention cherry-picking items and making them sound more significant and widespread than they really are. But he never really analyzed anything. He just presented "evidence" and said, "See? I'm right."

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

FuglyStick

It's like the satire of a Paul Verhoeven movie come to life. (Think Robocop and Starship Troopers, not Showgirls)

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AZIZ! LIGHT!

Pearl Trade

I saw this episode and I was thinking the exact same thing you were. There's no doubt he tailors sound bites and "news" to fit into what he wants. Glenn Beck is just a small representation of the entire media being deceptive.

__________________

Our revenge will be the laughter of our children.
Give me convenience or give me death!

Wes Mantooth

Jesus Beck, pulling the old left wing universities are destroying our children card? What did you do pull that out of a Newt Gingrich neo-con handbook form 1992? I think he's running out of material. Isn't there something about Obama being a drug lord from Kenya who sells crack and Muslimnomics to the sheeple in an attempt to poison our perfect Christian country? Surely he must be hard at work finding the out of context sound bites to prove it.

Gettin' lazy Glenn.

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Baraka_Guru

Beck's message is simple:

• Conservatism good/progressivism bad
• Capitalism good/socialism bad
• Nationalism good/internationalism bad
• Religion good/intellectualism bad
• Christianity good/non-Christians bad
• ...

The pattern is easily crafted. Just be sure to keep it black and white and covered in smoke and confused with mirrors.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Wes Mantooth

Yeah its about crafting that typical us vs them garbage people like him are so good at, its the same shtick that kept Rush on the air through the Clinton years...create an enemy and then harp on it until people are incensed over the dumbest of issues.

"How dare them libruls wanna put veggies in our school lunches!!! Communism I say!"

What annoys me about people like Beck though is the hyperbole he uses the process. Look at the story above. Somebody probably could build a reasonable argument that universities are too liberal and not doing enough to craft conservative thinkers (sounds like a bunch of hooey to me but whatever). But not Beck and his peers, instead he throws around terms like "re-education camps" and "indoctrinating our children" to sensationalize what should be nothing more then a trivial discussion about politics. Keep 'em angry and separate 'em over every issue and they'll keep tuning in in droves.

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Baraka_Guru

This is a good point, but you don't go far enough in your criticism. Beck isn't merely glossing over potential problems with the university system, and he isn't merely using terms normally associated with the practices of authoritarian regimes. No...he's comparing universities directly with terrorist groups and Iran and North Korea. It's a blatant and psychotic attack on universities and the ideas encapsulated in intellectualism.

It's bullshit, and likely a knee-jerk reaction to a comment regarding the public education surrounding health care, but that doesn't matter. When all is said and done, many of his viewers will accept his arguments that universities are evil entities that seek to destroy the free and righteous minds of their children. I guess it's an argument for home-schooling and special universities set up by Christian ministries.

On the surface, it's fear mongering. Its net effect is fear mongering. The universities in America are just as bad as terrorists groups! Wake up, America! Your freedom is at risk! The Marxists in power are destroying the republic!

How long before he starts broadcasting an actual call to action?

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Wes Mantooth

Thats a good point BG, truth be told I didn't listen to the piece because I always thought the argument was bullshit and I've heard it a million times anyway...didn't get the whole gist of exactly what he was conveying. Yikes.

I think it is important to keep Glenn Beck in perspective though. No self respecting conservative thinker is going to buy that argument for a second and I would wager a percentage of his audience wouldn't really take it that seriously either. Its one thing to spew this garbage on tv, which is really nothing new but going over the line and calling people to action (past the odd protest) would be pretty extraordinary. That's why I think his level of sincerity is important here. Glenn Beck, in my opinion just wouldn't go that far because he knows where his bread is buttered (just like Rush Limbaugh, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell) they always seem to stop just short of calling for any kind of action because truth be told that would be the end of the gravy train.

What does scare me however is how ridiculous stories like that register with the right wing fringe nut jobs out there who take this stuff very seriously and I do wonder if the Glenn Becks of the world aren't going to be partly responsible for helping create the next Timothy McVeigh. While he won't be leading the charge the blood could certainly be his hands when one to many of these pieces wind up in the mind of the wrong person or group.

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boink

what kind of action ? like after the health care bill passed ? a few threatening letters and bricks through windows ?

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when you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer. Superstition ain't the way.

Baraka_Guru

Oh I don't know.

The thing is, Beck was boasting how he, as an individual, managed to call hundreds of thousands to the Mall. Truly that is no easy feat (though I would argue it was clearly not just him). He has lots of people who like him and lots who hate him, but it has become quite apparent that people listen to him and are more than willing to participate with him in his quest to "restore the republic."

My question was loaded, I'll grant you that, but it wouldn't take much for Beck to mobilize large groups of people to various ends. If he can get hundreds of thousands to the Mall, I'm sure he can get large groups to do other things. If he wanted to orchestrate various forms of obstructionism to the "Marxist agenda," do you think he could pull it off? And despite what people think of his stance with the Tea Party, who's to say he isn't galvanizing them into an angry, "ain't gonna take it anymore" frenzy?

Oh, and there is this little bit from him as he recapped the rally on his show on August 30: "I believe we're approaching a last call, all aboard. I had nightmares last night, because I felt maybe I wasn't clear enough. The message I feel I'm supposed to give you is get behind the shield of God."

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

boink

I know it was loaded, I'm susceptible to that sorta thing. but I'm not a 'joiner' mobs of all sorts spook me.

can he pull what off is what I wonder, what is his agenda, or what is the agenda of his masters ? this is sorta why I made the Tea Party vs NAACP thread. it seems there is alot of effort going on towards misinformation, misdirection and division of the populace, ala what you see in the vid Wes Mantooth posted with the guy on the stump raging about Blacks, Jews and Freemasons. like what Roachboy has also been pointing out.

honestly I don't have much to say about this stuff, I hope to learn something from reading your conversations here.
the vapo rub vid has spawned another question in my mind though, hopefully just more paranoia though....

__________________
when you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer. Superstition ain't the way.

Wes Mantooth

The thing to consider though is how much power he REALLY has. Its one thing to be a popular late afternoon talking head who puts on right wing rallies but how many of his listeners are willing to follow him over a cliff for the cause? I would imagine it would be a very small percentage of our overall country (lets remember roughly 50% of the voting public is on the left). Those rallies look impressive on tv but in a nation of 300 million whatever people its a drop in the bucket and lets also consider how many of those people go just because. There's a big difference between the housewife in Nebraska who's goes to see his live show and knits while he's on tv and somebody actually willing to take up his cause and do something about it (those would be the nuts I mentioned in the post above and they are scary).

I would assume (without putting words in our good friend Baraka's mouth) that a call to action would be something much bigger then a rally or protest...taking up arms maybe, responding with violence? But then what? Glenn Beck gets fired, maybe winds up in prison, nothing gets accomplished anyway and we never see or hear from him again. I doubt he could influence a major political shift in America either, the Republicans are still strongly in control of the Right and know they can't win elections with nothing more then the fringe, the Dems are never going to follow him and the moderates think he nuts. In the end whats he really going to be able to do that we Americans haven't seen before?

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boink

what happens when GB pisses off Opra ? sorta kidding but really, I wonder ?

also, this whole thing I found quite weird and interesting.
The Saudi Prince, The Mosque And Fox News : NPR

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when you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer. Superstition ain't the way.

ottopilot

This line of baseless fear-bating is nothing less than irresponsible. Do you blame Al Gore for the actions of James Jae Lee at the Discovery Channel? After all, Al recently called all of us to "action"... and this guy believes in everything Al Gore says. So did Mr. Gore call this dumb-ass to action? Aren't you worried about Al galvanizing folks into an angry, "ain't gonna take it anymore" frenzy? Well at least one of Al's minions apparently did get worked up into a frenzy and acted out. Are there more just now bubbling to the surface? "Oh dear, why does that crazy Al Gore want to kill us all?" ...ridiculous.

Although no Tea-Party types are taking hostages, there's always a crazy person somewhere that's going to act out. Just like the dead guy at the Discovery Channel, he was a crazy person acting out on "his own". The convenient "potentially violent mob" stereotype smells like the same lynch-mob rhetoric that immediately flooded the media, attempting to blame Tea-Party types for brutally murdering a Kentucky Census worker... I meant tosay suicide. oops...How did that happen?

Inventing mobs of fictitious angry white-folks... eek! Cliché much?

Irresponsible.

---------- Post added at 12:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:09 AM ----------

Which lie? Who's lie?

"During his investigation, Scott (Baker) uncovered new information about the request ABC made to Amtrak. He even received an e-mail from Whoopi Goldberg."

Video investigative report: Seven-Minute Slam: The Inside Story of Glenn Beck’s Ambush on The View

Although Amtrak does not allow the reserving of cars/seats, somehow they did allow ABC to reserve seating in advance for Barbara Walters, Whoopie, and company. Apparently Barbara Walters knew this prior to Beck's appearance on the View. When confronted with evidence, Walters, Goldberg, and ABC refused to apologize or make a clarifying statement.

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"It rubs the lotion on Buffy, Jodi and Mr. French's skin" - Uncle Bill from Buffalo

Baraka_Guru

In Beck's case, I'm talking about a direct and actual correlation between parties. You know, like his rally. Also, I'm not talking about terrorist actions. "Obstructionist" doesn't not necessarily mean people have to die. It happens all the time where no one gets hurt.

If you want to claim something to be baseless and irresponsible, you need to take responsibility yourself for demonstrating it is the case. Instead you decided to speculate about a connection between a guy with a gun and a manifesto and a politician-turned-activist who made a film, and then assume it to be a similar situation to the one I'm discussing. You know, a situation with an actual, direct correlation between parties.

Next time, try writing about the same things I'm I writing about rather than producing a false equivalence. If you don't quite understand what I'm getting at in any of my posts, please ask for a clarification. At the very least, try to focus on what's there rather than bringing other topics into it. I'm open to criticism; I just kindly ask for it to be fair.

Oh, and the angry white people are real. I've seen them.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Tully Mars

One it doesn't sound like all the ladies knew about ABC's actions. Two Beck claimed, in a weird "evil" sounding mimicking voice that Ms. Walters called him over the to them. The ladies pointed out he in fact approached them... when asked why he would LIE about that he states "I have no idea."

Catching beck in a lie really isn't that hard. For example he stated one night that Fox News was the only media outlet bold enough to air footage of the Israeli flotilla raid. The Daily Show of course showed that footage and then aired footage from just about every other major news channel airing footage of the raid.

Another easily proved lie is back when Obama was sworn in Beck stated “I checked. We have never had a president sworn into office without a Bible.” But as many have point out that's not true at all... 1901 Teddy Roosevelt did not use a bible, Lyndon Johnson used a Catholic missal and John Quincy Adams used a constitutional law book instead of the bible. He's either lying when he says he checked, because a simple search of "US Presidential oaths" will get you this info. Or he's simply lying about the other POTUS not using a bible. Either way he's lying.

I could go on, Beck provides plenty of material, but if you want to believe what he's saying feel free and my guess is no one's going to convince you otherwise.

People defending Beck and his lies remind me of people on the left defending Micheal Moore. Every time a lie was exposed there was a reasonable explanation for it or it was a simple "misstatement" or he "misspoke." The old "he accidental lied, so it doesn't count" defense.

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I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo

Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

Derwood

I'm sorry, did I miss Al Gore getting a daily radio and TV show that is watched by millions?

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"You can't shoot a country until it becomes a democracy." - Willravel

filtherton

It would be lovely if Gore's detractors held Beck to the same high standards of honesty and integrity as they hold Gore.

mixedmedia

no shit.
I mean, ditto.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Cimarron29414

So, a year or two ago, Al Gore called for "civil disobedience" to prevent the creation of new coal plants.


Last week, a man took Al Gore's encouragement, using a "bomb and a gun" to terrorize a television station until the police were forced to end his life. (Link was chosen specifically for the giggle-factor.)

FOXNews.com - Gunman Shot and Killed After Hostage Standoff at Discovery Channel Building

Can anyone find a first-hand account of Beck calling for "civil disobedience"? I can't find one.

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Gives a man a halo, does mead.

"Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

Baraka_Guru

That's a non-sequitur, Cimarron, and I'll point out again the false equivalence of this current tack with Al Gore and the Discovery Channel attacker's "civil disobedience."

Can we stick with the topic, please?

It wasn't a question of whether he has, but I find that he tends to work in implication and nuance. As far as I can tell, doesn't tell people what they should do, except invest in gold and get right with God, and that sort of thing. He at least says to his viewers that they should "wake up" and "be concerned" and "see that the country is being ruined by Marxists, progressives," etc.

The game-changer was his rally. He stepped out of the studio and into the street, and hundreds of thousands of people followed him. His influence shouldn't be underestimated.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Tully Mars

You mean like this...

LOON WATCH: Glenn Beck Show issues a wingnut call to arms • videosift.com

Where he gets some actor to spew 'code words" like the "time for talk is over" "our enemies will fear it" all while dressed up as Thomas Paine?

All this type of blow hard bull shit has lead people to show up at rallies with signs such as "We came unarmed... this time."

Recently Becks been hyping a work of fiction by Arthur Gardner, it's basically a call to arms and ends with the line "We're everywhere. . . . The fight starts tomorrow." The book, The Overton Window, is basically an anti-government novel in the same vain as The Turner Diaries by William L. Pierce. I wonder how long it will be before it produces another Timothy McVeigh?

Beck and his right wing nut jobs have already lead to people like Richard Poplawski who shot several Pittsburgh police officers because he was convinced by listening to them "the nation was secretly controlled by a cabal that would eradicate freedom of speech, take away his guns and use the military to enslave the citizenry."

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I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo

Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

Cimarron29414

I'm not really going to engage in the quarterly "OMG, I hate Glenn Beck! / OMG! I do to!" circle jerk you guys have going on.

The thread had morphed into comparing and contrasting the influence of two specific people on society, as well as the actions those influenced people might or do partake in. I'd say a Nobel Peace Prize and Academy Award winner has the ear of the people and the influence is equivalent.

See, BG, this is why it is relevant. Tully believes Beck will create another T.M. because Beck has asked people (GASP!) to go to church, and to tell the truth in their dealings, and to give even more to those in need. What horror! I didn't see the rally, but I am trying to tie this post to the OP.

Al, on the other hand, has explicitly called for the breaking of laws, and that is what we got.

The only false equivalence is your stating that the "nuances" and "implications" of Beck's speeches are somehow identical to the actual calling for criminal acts - a thing which Al Gore has done on more than one occasion.

You guys can get back to it now. Whose turn were you on?

__________________
Gives a man a halo, does mead.

"Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

Tully Mars

For the record I do not hate GB, or anyone else for that matter. To me hate says a lot about about the person doing the hating then the person being hated.


I do find his rhetoric and calls for action concerning.

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I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo

Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

Cimarron29414

Tully, in fairness, I edited after you posted. I apologize and wanted to direct your attention to that fact.

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Gives a man a halo, does mead.

"Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

Tully Mars

Ok, I'll play...

You think I'm concerned due to Beck suggesting people "to go to church, and to tell the truth in their dealings, and to give even more to those in need?" Umm, no I'm concerned when he has people dress up like Thomas Paine and spew spiteful anti-government language. It makes me concerned because people listen to it then fly planes into IRS buildings and shoot police officers.

As for his call for people "to tell the truth in their dealings" that pretty much flies in the face of his constant lying, doesn't it?

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I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo

Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

Pearl Trade

I don't understand why you guys are making the link between Beck and Gore's followers going postal. The criminally insane will latch on to anything, whether that be Beck or Gore or anyone saying something they can agree with.

Gore made a call for "civil disobedience" and he inspired a guy to take people hostage. Civil disobedience is clearly not arming yourself and taking a building over. Beck wrote a fiction book and if that inspires a guy to go batnuts, I wouldn't blame Beck for it. Batnuts Man was already insane and ready to act violently, he just needed something to fight for.

Just because Beck has thousands (millions?) of followers, doesn't they will all follow him into a fight. In fact, I'd be willing to make a bet saying less than .5% of them would do anything violent.

Phrases Beck has used: "wake up" could mean to educate yourself. "Be concerned" could mean that the country is going no where fast, we should be concerned about that.

Tully, I'm surprised that you ou of all people took that Beck/Thomas Paine video out of context. "Time for talk is over" and "our enemies will fear it" were both in reference to the DC rally Beck had. He's saying our enemies will fear our free speech and ability to say what we want; "time for talk is over" means instead of only talking about things, we should get up and try to be the change we want to see.

__________________

Our revenge will be the laughter of our children.
Give me convenience or give me death!

Tully Mars

I don't think I'm taking it out of context at all. He using a familiar figure from an armed revolution, our armed fight for freedom from the British, to call people to action. Maybe you hear "time for talk is over" and you hear it "means instead of only talking about things, we should get up and try to be the change we want to see.' I know from talking to a lot of other people that is not what they hear. One of my favorite dive shops here is owned my a small group of folks from Texas. They like Beck and when they hear him they do not hear what you're hearing. In fact they have a jar on the counter where anytime someone kills a lion fish, a predatory fish not native to the Caribbean, 20 peso is added in the pot. The label on the outside of the jar used to read "support the Playa del Carmen Fire Dept." It now has the AOF on it. When I asked what that stood for one of the shop's owners told me "Assassinate Obama Fund." I said "you're joking, right?" "OK, let's say I'm kidding."

Stuff like that concerns me.

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I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo

Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club