Cimarron29414

bg -

Trying to explain charity to a Statist is like trying to explain "blue" to a blind person.

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Gives a man a halo, does mead.

"Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

Wes Mantooth

Beck's a pitch man who makes money off peoples outrage, the more visible he is the more books he can sell and the more ratings he gets for his show. Really most of what he does is straight out of an entertainment business 101 text book, build an audience and then fuck it for all its worth and what better audience could you find then people looking rally around a voice "that says what needs bein' said"?

He reminds me a bit of the Baptist Pastors that ran around the country holding revivals back in the day. Build a fire and brimstone persona, pound your fist on a bible and scream about America going to hell in a hand basket and how God and good old fashioned church can fix it. BOOM suddenly you're filling stadiums, getting on tv or the radio and making truckloads of money at the expense of people who eat that stuff up.

I don't think Beck really has any other agenda then to make as much money as he possibly can while he's still relevant, weather he actually believes what he says is pretty much irrelevant.

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Baraka_Guru

Point taken, Cimarron.

Wes, the difference with other entertainers is that they don't take their entertainment and turn it into a twisted reality show starring the angry white public. Unless I'm missing something.

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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Wes Mantooth

Well he's not really an "entertainer" in the classic sense but he uses the same techniques to stay visible and make a living. What Glenn Beck is doing is nothing new, it's been done for decades if not more (here in the States at least). A metal band makes money exploiting people who want something loud and angry to listen to, Glenn Beck and his ilk exploit people who think America needs more god, morals, conservative ideas (or whatever he's been supporting lately) and sells it to an audience that wants to hear it. Every time he goes on about America turning its back on God another person turns on his tv show or buys one of his books...and lets face it there is a large portion of our country that eats this stuff up like candy.

I'm not saying its a good thing, it just is what it is and its a pretty big business.

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Derwood

Beck is a professional troll

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"You can't shoot a country until it becomes a democracy." - Willravel

Tully Mars

That's pretty much an insult to trolls, professional or otherwise.

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I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo

Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

Baraka_Guru

Well, I don't want to take "he's an entertainer" to mean that he doesn't necessarily believe in what he goes on about. Party because I'm not sure I could be convinced otherwise.

It's my understanding that he has a bit of a dark past. Maybe he's overcompensating for something. His demeanour strikes me as one that's overcompensating for something.

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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

roachboy

it's good to remember this when thinking about people like glenn beck who seem such clowns now.

Naomi Wolf: Fascist America, in 10 easy steps | World news | The Guardian

i'm not making a direct comparison here, but i seem to remember an earlier ultra-rightwing populist who was a bit of a clown and failed painter before some problems arose, some of which were enabled by folk assuming that a clown in appearance is a clown in all situations or even a clown in fact....

understanding of course that nothing in particular rises or falls or changes or doesn't on account of what happens on a messageboard, except of course for the situations within each of the textboxes that we each dutifully fill with words, it's not a good idea to underestimate this populist right.

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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Wes Mantooth

LOL, Derwood he so is!

BG; I don't think anybody really knows what goes on in that head except for Glenn Beck, I have no idea weather he believes what he says (although I seem to remember that before he made it big he was much more moderate...take that for what it is, or not because I have no idea where I heard that or if its even true) What I'm saying, in a round about way he's just filling a role that somebody else would take if he wasn't there because, for better or worse, the views he expresses are quite popular. He obliges by giving the masses a voice and I guess some form of leadership or something to rally around while raking in the money.

BUT to be perfectly honest its been a long night and I don't really remember what my original point was other then he's just another manipulative wind bag that exploits outraged conservatives...I think the ideas he puts out would be there regardless of weather he was or not.

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Hektore

I seem to recall that once upon a time Beck said on the air something to the effect that - he would say anything or would take any side in an argument if paid enough - but I'll be damned if I can find anything about it.

I think this should suffice in it's place to show you how he operates, basically anything to get attention. Shame it's from "The View"

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The advantage law is the best law in rugby, because it lets you ignore all the others for the good of the game.

Wes Mantooth

Well Hektore, when you've got books to sell and ratings to increase you need to please as many people as you can and stay as visible as possible don't you?

But anyway, I'm pretty sure I've heard something to the same effect as well but I can't remember where either (seriously wtf?) but I do recall hearing very recently that he used to have a radio show before he got on Fox that was much more moderate and level headed....

...but I don't know, maybe somebody else here can confirm that.

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mixedmedia

He was. He was much more moderate when he started out, which makes the fact that he is whipping up so much bigotry and misinformation and passing it off to so many people who eat it up like the gospel even more sickening. That makes him a total scumbag, if you ask my opinion. To make a loose comparison, at least paranoid psychotics have the excuse of being paranoid psychotics, know what I mean?

I loved watching Whoopi kick his ass in that clip.

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Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

roachboy

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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Baraka_Guru

Maybe Beck's rally was a prologue.

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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Tully Mars

It probably is. In American politics there is a pendulum effect. I have little doubt the GOP will win control of the house and we'll start seeing investigative committees looking into every Dem they can. It'll be like 1995-96 all over again. None of this will help any American other the GOP politicians running the circus, but it'll look good in sound and video clips. People will be up and arms over every new accusation and many old ones. Obama's real estate purchase in Chicago, how his wife pays for her clothes and trips, maybe even the birth certificate issue will take up 400hrs of committee time. Who knows. I just hope there's no stained blue dress this time. But I bet it gets ugly and could even see them shutting down the government when they don't get their way. Really that's what the tea party is all about, imo... shutting down the "big" government the far right doesn't like. Of course they'll want to keep the big government stuff they like. You know pay for health care and schools in far off lands but not in the US, cause that there's socialism! Spending billion on smart bombs and blocking anything that would help create smart kids. Hopefully the Dems will grow a pair and call their BS for what it is... but I wouldn't hold my breath.

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I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo

Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

dogzilla

Any why is a Republican majority a bad thing? There's a couple Democrats, Charlie Rangel and Maxine waters that even the Democrats think need investigating. I hope that the Republicans do become a majority so Obama's health care and stimulus programs can be revoked along with my previously mentioned government cuts.

As far as Beck, Limbaugh and other public personalities, they are trolls and entertainers, nothing more. Amusement for the masses. I don't pay attention to them. Just like I don't pay any attention to Michael Moore or some of the wacky liberal websites like truthout or Democratic Underground other than for amusement.

If a few thousand people want to get together for a Beck rally, so what? They are free to express their opinion. I recall a 'million man march' by liberals as well as a bunch of pro-illegal immigration rallies. So what? Everybody's entitled to their opinion.

Tully Mars

There are things I like about having a GOP majority in at least part of our government and things I do not like. For example I have little doubt Clinton was forced to do things budget wise that he really didn't want to do. Of course many Dems now claim all the economic good times were due to Clinton. Personally I don't buy that. But I don't think the federal government operates well when one side has too much control. During Bush Jr. the GOP had complete basically complete control and I think that was mess. I mean the day Obama walked in to the oval office there was a 1.?? trillion dollar debt, two wars going on with no real exit option for either and an economy in near collapse.

I'd like to see both sides make a real effort to come together and try to find real solutions. I don't see that happening. I see the GOP sticking with the only answer is cut taxes and the dems haven't come up with anything that will work either. Mainly because the average US voter doesn't want to hear the truth. You can't get elected in the US telling the truth because the truth is freaking ugly at this point. People want to hear we can solve all these problems and it won't hurt you at all. Look at how the iraq war was sold. Anyone who asked "what's this going to costs?" Was told "not going to cost you anything, in fact we're going cut your taxes." "Oh, great let's do it! Do you know where I can get one of those $3 yellow ribbon magnets for the back of my car? I want to support the troops."

As for holding any elected official responsible for BS I'm all for it. I was reading yesterday about some Texas congresswoman who probably gave a bunch of scholarships to family and friends. Investigate that and hold her accountable. I could care less if she/he is GOP, Dem or IND. I think if turn over stones in government you'll find scum, that scum should be exposed.

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I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo

Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

Derwood

no one is saying they didn't have a right to assemble or have opinions. we're just saying their opinions are stupid and misguided given the fact that billionaires are bankrolling the movement

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"You can't shoot a country until it becomes a democracy." - Willravel

FuglyStick

False piety by a political evangelist.

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AZIZ! LIGHT!

Baraka_Guru

Again, I'm not convinced that he doesn't believe in his own message. Is it false piety? Political evangelist, I'll accept, but I'm not sure whether his piety is false.

That's an interesting thought, regardless, the idea that Beck is just playing a role as a career, to make money. It reminds me of Kurt Vonnegut's Mother Night, a novel about propaganda and performance, within which Vonnegut wrote in the Introduction, "We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be."

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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

roachboy

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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Baraka_Guru

rb, I like that last bit: "I'm right even when I'm wrong."

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Pearl Trade

Yeah, I think he believes what he says. He's sincere, just as everyone else is. Glenn Beck believes what he says, Hitler believed what he said, and Obama belives what he says. I can't wrap my mind around Beck being false. He's trying to make a ton of money and you coul even say he's exploiting people/faith, but he's not a fake.

Derwood, I'm sure his followers and the "right wing conspiracy" think your opinions are stupid too.

And Tully speaks the truth again with a semi-non-biased post. Too many people are taking stock in entertainers (Beck) and attacking the party they aren't with. All problems and bitching, no solutions.

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Our revenge will be the laughter of our children.
Give me convenience or give me death!

Baraka_Guru

Let's assume that Beck, Hitler, and Obama don't/didn't believe in what they say/said. In the end, does it matter what they actually believe? I'm with Vonnegut and 9er on this one, we are what we pretend to be/we are what we do.

Glenn Beck "the man" and Glenn Beck "the commentator" could be completely different people. However, if you were to weigh who Beck "the commentator" is and what he does, Beck "the man" wouldn't quite register on the radar.

In the end, there would be no Beck "the man."

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Wes Mantooth

Of course and the fallout is the same regardless, he certainly does his part to whip the crowd up to a frenzy but like I wrote earlier weather or not he believes what he actually says is irrelevant. The thing to ponder is weather or not the crowds he preaches too believe what they believe because of Glenn Beck or is Glenn Beck just giving a voice to the crowd...in other words does he really matter?

I wrote about the old timey revivalists earlier, the white tents on the edge of town and a fire and brimstone pastor dressed in a white suit going on about temperance and morality...performing faith healing and such. All that Pastor had to do was advertise his upcoming revival using his weekly radio show, show up, put on a good put on a good performance and collect the nickels at entrance, and then what? Did it matter that he jumped in his Studebaker and blew those nickles on whores and gin? He got the crowd fired up by vocalizing what they believed in and they in turn showed up because they wanted to hear somebody vocalize it. Weather or not the Pastor followed or believed in what he preached was irrelevant, he was just providing a face for an already firmly established movement.

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roachboy

truth be told, i don't particularly care about glenn beck.

what concerns me more is the idea that the republicans will gain seats in the upcoming election cycle. the reason for that is not too far from what tully says above---the right has to my mind nothing coherent to offer in terms of policy--so nothing in terms of a logic that could orient policy--that's fit to or able to address the situation in which the united states currently finds itself. i'm not sure that the obama administration does either because they aren't social-democratic enough. i think there needs to be decisive, directed reallocations of resources to help open up economic options for people, things like the japanese were doing in the 1970s with spot underwriting of sectors of economic activity. unemployment needs to be addressed. the right has nothing to say about that, and have even got in the way of any attempt to address unemployment.

if the republicans get more seats in congress, what i see following is paralysis.
and *that* is the point at which the far right, the tea-party right, becomes dangerous. that is the point at which the koch brothers can buy their way into being very problematic indeed. and that appears to be what the tea-party is about, what it's banking on. but that's not about glenn beck---he's merely a shill who's benefitting materially from being a shill. there are lots of shills. he just happens to have alot of airtime on faux news, your friendly mass-market conservative shill emporium.

and i think the other, consistent problem is that the obama administration---and the "left" or "progressives" or whatever---has failed miserably in making either their own agenda clear or even outlining what they've been doing clearly---and have failed in taking the political fight to the conservatives. abject inexplicable failure in communication warfare. it's amazing. makes you wonder.

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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

ring

"what i see following is paralysis."

A strange chaotic paralysis, watching this empire implode.
It brings to mind the mental state of people who realize their airplane is going to crash.

Baraka_Guru

This isn't entirely true. They'll sell "tax cuts will bolster the economy and fix unemployment" until they're blue in the face. Maybe they'll even sever unemployment benefits to force people to become all bootstrappy.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Wes Mantooth

Well its not entirely unfounded though. Lower taxes can and do attract new businesses which it turn will help with unemployment. If you're going to set up a new factory for your company do you set it up in a place where taxes are so high you already have one foot in the grave before you make your first dollar or do you find a place that gives you the lowest taxes?

Taxes are needed and people bitch way to much about how high they are but being pragmatic about what your charging people and why should be part of any discussion when trying to deal with unemployment.

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Baraka_Guru

But the thing is the U.S. already has a relatively low tax revenue per capita. And it's not just corporate tax cuts that the Republicans will likely sell, it's personal taxes too. How low do you need to go to generate economic activity? You can't keep lowering taxes and expect to pay off your runaway debt while continuing to pay for programs people want.

And if you look at those who flock to Beck, they're after the things he's selling: patriotism, militarism, and old American values. It's basically a resistance against change. The world is changing, it's changed: globalization, multiculturalism, instant global communication, gay rights, reproductive rights, rising BRIC dominance, the establishment of social democratic systems, etc.

These things scare the shit out of Old America. These Christian conservatives are flocking to Beck because they are mobilizing to protect what they feel is threatened. Unfortunately, much of what they're protecting are likely old ideals best left behind in the 20th century. Much of what they're protecting may have already died, if they're not in their death throes as we speak.

Republicans who take up these values---who essentially borrow a page out of Beck's playbook---will likely win votes. Tax cuts will only be one part of it.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Tully Mars

There's is some fact to that but there's also a lot of smoke being blown around -

Oil begs don't raise our taxes

If we could just get rid of the tax shelters and actually tax businesses and the wealthy instead of giving far too many of them hand outs, get rid of a shit load of pork and cut some military spending we might be on the road to balancing our books.

But as Bush Jr once said in a speech "you can't raise taxes on the rich, we all know what they do they find loopholes and won't pay anyway." Not a direct quote but it's close. Guess it never dawned on his cheering admires that it might make more sense to close the loopholes then ignore them.

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I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo

Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

Wes Mantooth

Well the thing about taxes are they need to be competitive on a state to state basis or they just become more of a burden anything else. When State A has taxes that are light years lower then State B people are going to move to State A. Its too easy to just move somewhere else and pay lower taxes then it is to support higher ones. I might even go so far as to say a lot of our states and cities are dying because they aren't keeping them competitive. But anyway I'm so ignorant of the economy and money I probably have no idea what I'm talking about.

Anyway I agree with you to an extent BG. The problem comes when it seems like people don't want to make any kind of distinction between what was good about the old days and what was bad. Just changing for the sake of keeping up with our global neighbors or just to be modern isn't a good thing either. The US has always been a little different from the rest of the world and I'm glad there are people who are helping keep the balance between whats worked for us and what needs to change. In a perfect world the arguments will keep coming and we'll keep working on finding a nice balance that's best for us.

I may hate some of these people with a passion but they do help keep us from going too far in one direction with out stopping to ask if its the right move.

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Pearl Trade

Well, that is the definition of conservatism. Traditions and values with little change, which is a tough product to sell in this day and age. Beck is a likeable guy and does a good job at selling strong, far right conservatism. Basically, you agree with Beck if you yourself are a hard right conservative. Not all right wingers agree with him (me).

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Our revenge will be the laughter of our children.
Give me convenience or give me death!

Tully Mars

Isn't being honest part of traditional values?

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I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo

Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

Wes Mantooth

It should be Tully but I think that ship sailed in the world of politics long ago.

I agree Pearl you just aren't going to get a thing out of what Glenn Beck is about unless you have a pretty deep rooted conservative outlook on the world...deep, deep, far right conservative outlook.

I can be conservative on a lot of issues but like you I just can't get on the same page with him most of the time...about 97.8379% of the time.

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Pearl Trade

Yes, but to different people there are different definitions of honesty. Beck thinks he speaks the truth, whether he actually does or not is irrelevant to the question of honesty.

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Our revenge will be the laughter of our children.
Give me convenience or give me death!

ratbastid

How do you know this? Because of the crocodile tears? Because I'm not convinced in the slightest.

Pearl Trade

You think his public persona is different than what he really feels and is like in private? I don't think so. It seems to me he really gets behind and is passionate about what he does. The "right vs wrong" of Glenn Beck is up for debate, I'm only saying he's 100% real, even if he is bat nuts crazy.

He exagerates and stretches himself out a bit to fulfill the entertainment part of what he does, but to me he's legit.

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Our revenge will be the laughter of our children.
Give me convenience or give me death!

boink

I think this is the true, I don't think he'll ever offer up any ideas or solutions to any problems, that would lead to specifics which would get messy and ultimately turn some people away. he's all about gaining the maximum pitchfork and torch waving masses to hand over to the repugs.

yeah, until they catch him in a hotel room with his face white with coke and a Filipino ladyboy plugging his emergency exit.

I wish Bill Buckly were still around, I hate this fake lowbrow country boy crap.

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when you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer. Superstition ain't the way.

roachboy

beck is working to help draw the boundaries around a new american volksgemeinschaft.
he is basic to the neo-fascist project that's at the centre of the tea party.
but hey, don't believe me and think he's just a clown or waste your time wondering about something as vaporous as "sincerity"--i mean, please..you cannot possibly be that naive...

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite