Wes Mantooth

Well its a kind of a double edged sword isn't it? If you respond to it you're legitimizing it if you ignore it you risk lies and inaccuracies becoming commonly held beliefs (which brings us back to the OP, although I suppose even when addressed those lies and inaccuracies can still become commonly held beliefs). Either way once its out there its going to have some kind of impact...I guess you just need to pick and choose your battles.

__________________

filtherton

I think that it's pretty clear that if Obama ignored Rush's statements and they became an issue, Ace would be one of the first to criticize Obama for not responding to Rush's statements before they became a problem.

aceventura3

My point is what gives these things traction, to me it is the over-reaction and the credibility earned when "legitimacy" responds to the "ludicrous". It seems some are arguing the traction is gained just because Rush says it - I disagree.

Occasionally, I admit that I respond to silliness with silliness, and I admit that it is a personality flaw and is immature. But, I do know when I am doing it, do you think Obama's team knows?

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

Baraka_Guru

I'm assuming that by the time Obama's team responds to something of Rush's making that it has already received traction. I'd sooner blame the media at large than I would Obama's team, if it is the case.

Does Obama's team respond to every other media personality (both fringe and mainstream) as well, or are they giving Rush special treatment? If they are, why? Does his team "legitimize" Jon Stewart as well?

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

aceventura3

Being a parent - adults should not get into debates with their children. Corollary: Presidents should not get into debates with AM radio talk show hosts poking fun at the President.

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

Wes Mantooth

But is it beyond the realm of reality that Rush has a large enough audience that simply by saying something it already takes on a life of its own before his opponents even respond to it? I agree you can make something worse by over reacting to it, but in the case of somebody as popular as Rush even the most ridiculous statements can and do gain a foot hold. The question then becomes whats the best way to handle it. Again picking your battles.

EDIT: The parent/child example doesn't really work here. Its not Rush against the President, its the President against inaccurate popular opinion that can have a real impact on our society.

__________________

aceventura3

Rush shapes public opinion??? Let's think about that for a moment. If Rush even could shape Republican Party opinion, how did McCain end up being the Republican candidate for President? How did Obama win? How did health care pass? And a million other things Rush in his bombastic manner has been against? Naive? Think about it, perhaps my problem is that I have spent some time listening to his show recently given all the attention he has gotten in the past two years. Rush is an entertainer. He calls Obama, "Imam Obama" and the left goes bizarro about claims that the Right thinks Obama is Muslim - and Rush laughs at the reaction - so it does it more. The people who get his show are laughing too.

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

Pearl Trade

For some strange reason, I seriously doubt that. Rush isn't a satirist, are you trying to say he is?

__________________

Our revenge will be the laughter of our children.
Give me convenience or give me death!

roachboy

ace has a decoder ring. he knows all limbaugh's secrets. maybe for the people with decoder rings, rush is a satirist. i like to think sometimes that he's making fun of conservatism by offering up a brand of it that's so stupid as to defy ridicule. but then i'm a glass half full kinda guy.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Derwood

1. Rush says things on the radio
2. Listeners believe it and contact their legislators
3. Media picks up on it and reports on it
4. Politicians are asked about it and must give soundbites
5. Opposing politicians must give opposing sound bites
6. Rinse and repeat

__________________
"You can't shoot a country until it becomes a democracy." - Willravel

Wes Mantooth

It doesn't really matter if he's a satirist or not, his opinions wind up in the public mind and do help shape peoples opinions of the world weather we want them to or not. John Stewart or Bill Maher have the same effect, the question is how much of an impact does it have, not weather it has an impact or not.

__________________

Pearl Trade

You've been drinking way too much Rush flavored Kool Aid, Ace. He isn't joking when he says things like "Imam Obama," he thinks what he says is the truth. When he says "Imam Obama," he's influencing his weak minded listeners to believe Obama truly is a Muslim. He's being intentionally deceptive and malicious with what he says and how he says it.

I wish you could cut through the shit and at least see the entertainment value in his BS, if not see his lies and exaggerated truth.

__________________

Our revenge will be the laughter of our children.
Give me convenience or give me death!

FuglyStick

Rush a satirist? LOL. Rush's audience is too stupid for satire.

__________________
AZIZ! LIGHT!

Baraka_Guru

If Rush is a satirist then he his a failed satirist.

That happens when enough people take what satirists say seriously.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

aceventura3

Rush is an entertainer.

I am not in the entertainment business, but I did stay at a...just kidding...but I did live in SoCal for some time. Here is the rule: If you want to jam in your garage, play the music you like. If you want to play in arenas, play the music your audience likes. Rush plays to his audience, both the liberals and conservatives in his audience. People go to him as they are, he does not create them.

That is what I am saying.

---------- Post added at 11:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:40 PM ----------

Actually, I just listen. Rush occasionally announces what he is doing and what reaction it will get and he is often correct, and then he laughs about it the next day. Do you ever listen to his show for more than a few minutes a day?

---------- Post added at 11:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 PM ----------

Regarding #2.

I don't think Obama is an Imam.
I don't think Obama appointees are Czars.
I think Obama is American.
I don't think Obama is a "magic negro".
I don't think the Obama administration is a regime.
I don't think Michele "my belle" Obama hates this country.
I think Obama is a citizen.
I think Obama earned his degrees.
I think Obama was more than a social worker before becoming President.
Etc.
Etc.
Etc.

Those who get Rush's show know all of the above also, but we enjoy Rush making fun of Obama and we like how liberals soil themselves over Rush's show occasionally.

---------- Post added at 11:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:49 PM ----------

Oh, the old Jedi mind trick on us ol' weak minded conservatives.

---------- Post added at 11:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:51 PM ----------

Come on, this is funny stuff even to us stupid conservatives. From your friend Rush.

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

Pearl Trade

I consider myself a conservative too, Ace. I just see through the shit Rush peddles. Also, I wasn't calling all conservatives who listen to his show weak minded. Of course some are, just like there are weak minded individuals for every belief system and political stance.

No, Rush is not an entertainer. Glenn Beck admits to being entertainment, even embraces it, Rush does not. Just because he says something dumb, someone makes a deal about it, and he correctly predicts what the reaction was, that doesn't mean anything. "Good job, Rush! You guessed right! You win nothing." He gives out stupid remarks because he knows the reaction he will get. He's a troll and he plays people for their reactions.

You're saying Rush caters to his audience, correct? So if his audience's tastes change, will his views and opinions change with them? That's what it seems you're saying. That would go against your whole "stick to your convictions" deal.

__________________

Our revenge will be the laughter of our children.
Give me convenience or give me death!

aceventura3

Perhaps I am one of the few adult males over 50 who will admit liking Michael Jackson's music and talent, but I basically grew up with it. MJ was an entertainer, his music evolved and changed with the tastes of his audience. He was a genius in being able to see popular trends and adapt them to his style. He often gave people the impression that he was in front of the trends, he was not. Elements of his music and style were not original, he was a student of art - and he had a unique ability to interpret art, combine styles, and present it in a manner that appealed to the tastes of his audience. As an artist I would say MJ stayed true to his convictions. I think Rush has similar skills in his area of talent.

Also there is a reason why Rush is a radio talk show host and not an elected politician, a business or a world leader, he does not have the skills for those things. I tune in to Rush's show to be entertained, my gut tells me that the vast majority of his conservative audience feels the same way. The thought that thoughtful people tune into his show and suddenly see the light, according to Rush, seems patently silly to me and I believe most here really do understand that once they give it some thought.

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."