Hillary Clinton??? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Mojo_PeiPei · 07-07-2003, 09:51 PM

This has come up before, but what are peoples thoughts on her has president?

Is America ready for a woman pres? Is America ready for Hillary? I personally figure she would loose horribly due to onservative/Moderates/conservative dem's rallying to the polls.

HarmlessRabbit · 07-07-2003, 10:42 PM

Quote:

I personally figure she would loose horribly due to conservative/Moderates/conservative dem's rallying to the polls.

i'm sure the nation has swung more conservative post 9/11, but remember that a majority of people didn't vote for bush, so there really isn't a conservative mandate in this country. The Congressional election certainly showed a bit more of a conservative swing, but still the senate is sharply divided.

Bill Clinton really wasn't that liberal, he was quite moderate in his policies. Remember, he passed welfare reform, which no true liberal ever would have done.

Bill Clinton is still well liked despite his past problems, and Hillary's book tour has been pretty popular.

So, to answer your question: Do I think Hillary could make a legit run for president? Yes. I think she could win.

Would I vote for her? At this point, I'd have to say no. She and Bill just have too much of a cloud around them. It would depend on who the republicans offered up though. If it was Hillary versus the George Bush of today, I would vote for Hillary, mainly because of John Ashcroft. If it was a stronger republican candidate, I'm not sure.

papermachesatan · 07-07-2003, 11:00 PM

I don't know.

Kneejerk reaction = No.

Mojo_PeiPei · 07-07-2003, 11:08 PM

Thing about Hillary's book, how many of the people buying the books are actually fans?

seretogis · 07-08-2003, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mojo_PeiPei
This has come up before, but what are peoples thoughts on her has president?

Is America ready for a woman pres? Is America ready for Hillary? I personally figure she would loose horribly due to onservative/Moderates/conservative dem's rallying to the polls.

She's already served eight years as President. Thank you, term limits.

Nad Adam · 07-08-2003, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by seretogis
She's already served eight years as President. Thank you, term limits.

hehe, yeah, maybe it's Bills turn to be president this time.

The_Dude · 07-08-2003, 07:09 AM

i'm absoultely looking forward to a woman president. this is way past overdue. then, lil girls can truely say "i wanna be president" and really mean it.

Charlatan · 07-08-2003, 07:59 AM

I'd love to see America run by a woman... I just don't think Hilary will be the one to do it.

sportsrule101 · 07-08-2003, 08:50 AM

America could handle a female president, Just not Hillary

mike059 · 07-08-2003, 06:58 PM

Hillary would make a great pres, she has a bigger set of balls than the next three republicans in line. do youreally think that other countries would fuck with us if hillary were in charge???

tikki · 07-08-2003, 08:20 PM

If we are going to have a woman as a president, fine, but if it's Hillary Clinton I am moving to Canada. I do not trust any Clinton, and Hillary's constant yelling and preaching about the horrible job Bush is doing annoys me. She always sounds so mad. Well, besides in that soft interview with Barbara Walters.

gxman · 07-08-2003, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mike059
Hillary would make a great pres, she has a bigger set of balls than the next three republicans in line. do youreally think that other countries would fuck with us if hillary were in charge???

YES, moreso actually

Dilbert1234567 · 10-31-2003, 03:10 PM

damn strait id vote for her, she is wating till 2k8 i think so there will be no emcumbant

Food Eater Lad · 10-31-2003, 03:34 PM

Why would anyone want her? What has she done? Her track record is abysmal. She was hired in a law firm after her husband became govenor. You telling me she made it on merit, or for the good connections? I mean what law firm wouldnt want the spouce of their govenor on their team?
What famous case did she work on?

Then her next real job was to get universal health care. After 25 million was spent, no heath care.

Then she spends the highest amount in NY history to beat a NO Name assemblymen for a seat in the senate. Lots of cash to beat a local politician, real impressive.

Then she makes strong, powerful speaches about how the USA will not tolerate terrorism, how if you harbor terrorists, you are a terrorists. How we will fight you till the bitter end, and then turns around and attacks the president for doing what she said we should do in her speach.

I dont know if any of you heard her being booed off the stage when she spoke in Madison Square Garden after 9 11, but its pretty indicative how how most NYer feel about her.

She needed the most expensive sentorial campaign in NY history to beat a no name local politician, as GUilani bowed out after his bout with Cancer, and was booed by her constituents. Imagin how much money she will need to beat a real candidate. This is why she is not running in 04. She knows she cant even carry NY.

maximusveritas · 10-31-2003, 04:38 PM

Hmmm...running on her last name and connections, rather than her own merit?
Hillary sounds alot like President Bush.
I would prefer it if she didn't run for President. It's not that she's a woman, but that i don't think she's qualified for the job. Plus, the fact that she's such a polarizing figure would hurt her. She was able to win NY because of the strong Democratic base, but she'll have a much tougher time nationally.

Food Eater Lad · 10-31-2003, 04:47 PM

She won NY cause Guiliani had cancer.

Food Eater Lad · 10-31-2003, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by maximusveritas
Hmmm...running on her last name and connections, rather than her own merit?
Hillary sounds alot like President Bush.
I would prefer it if she didn't run for President. It's not that she's a woman, but that i don't think she's qualified for the job. Plus, the fact that she's such a polarizing figure would hurt her. She was able to win NY because of the strong Democratic base, but she'll have a much tougher time nationally.

The difference is Bush has many positive results under his belt from his job in office. Hillary has none.

Ustwo · 10-31-2003, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Food Eater Lad

I dont know if any of you heard her being booed off the stage when she spoke in Madison Square Garden after 9 11, but its pretty indicative how how most NYer feel about her.

MTV edited out the boos. Typical

Food Eater Lad · 10-31-2003, 06:02 PM

The boos can heard if you download her speach from KAZA. The funniest part is when she started to talk louder to over come the boos, and the boos became even louder that you cant hear her at all. I guess she could make the same claim that micheal moore did about the oscars, " the boos were from people booing the booers"

Ya right.

2wolves · 11-01-2003, 07:17 PM

In my opinion some follower of FNC, Newmax, FreeRepublic, MRC, White Aryan Party, CCC, LaRouche-ite et al would assassinate her before she could take office. And she's not unaware of it.

2Wolves

mml · 11-02-2003, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Food Eater Lad
Why would anyone want her? What has she done? Her track record is abysmal. She was hired in a law firm after her husband became govenor. You telling me she made it on merit, or for the good connections? I mean what law firm wouldnt want the spouce of their govenor on their team?

What famous case did she work on?

While I have previously said I don't think she should run now, who can say how she will look in a few years. But two minutes and quick goole search got me this information:

She entered Wellesley College in 1965. Graduating with high honors, she moved on to Yale Law School, where she served on the Board of Editors of the Yale Review of Law and Social Action.

In 1973, Hillary became a staff attorney for the Children's Defense Fund. A year later she was recruited by the Impeachment Inquiry staff of the Judiciary Committee of the U.S. House of Representatives to work on the Watergate Impeachment proceedings.

As First Lady of Arkansas, Hillary continued to work tirelessly on behalf of children and families. In addition to chairing the Arkansas Education Standards Committee, she founded the Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families. She introduced a pioneering program called Arkansas Home Instruction for Preschool Youth, which trained parents to work with their children in preschool preparedness and literacy. Hillary also served on the board of the Arkansas Children's Hospital. In recognition of her professional and personal accomplishments, Hillary was named Arkansas Woman of the Year in 1983 and Arkansas Mother of the Year in 1984.

http://www.wic.org/bio/hclinton.htm

I think that Watergate trial was kind of a big one wasn't it?

Food Eater Lad · 11-02-2003, 01:16 PM

Right it was her outstanding work on the Watergate trial right that made her famous.... ya right.

HarmlessRabbit · 11-02-2003, 01:37 PM

I'd like to discuss again the incongruency here:

The original poster said said:

Quote:

What famous case did she work on?

A reply showed, which the poster did not deny, that she worked on the Watergate case. Certainly, any rational person would admit that Watergate was a famous legal case in USA history.

The original poster replies with:

Quote:

Right it was her outstanding work on the Watergate trial right that made her famous.... ya right.

When faced with an answer to his own question, the poster chose to reframe his question rather than admit that he made a mistake. In fact, a little googling shows that the Watergate trial DID launch the career of Hillary Rodham, and that Watergate actually predated her marriage to Bill Clinton.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/b...20030619.shtml

Quote:

Like Nixon, Hillary began her career by targeting a public figure: Nixon himself. Hillary's involvement in Watergate launched her career, but it was her marriage to Bill Clinton in 1975 that truly ensured an upward trend. Bill was elected Arkansas attorney general in 1976 and governor of Arkansas in 1978. Meanwhile, Hillary was appointed by Jimmy Carter to the board of the Legal Services Corp. in 1978.

So, we can see here that the entire original poster's claim, that "<i>She was hired in a law firm after her husband became govenor</i>" is actually factually incorrect.

It is this sort of evasion and denial which I think helps lower the standards of discussion on this forum. If a poster makes a factual error, they should be mature and intelligent enough to admit it.

Shauk · 11-02-2003, 02:51 PM

yeah did I mention that I think HarmlessRabbit is rad? yeah i did in another thread. cuz you wield ownage

eple · 11-02-2003, 03:51 PM

Anyone who don't think a woman will make a firm leader...one word: Margaret Thatcher....

Okay bad example (and that is two words. technically), but she didn't take shit from anybody, that's for sure :P.

Aesik · 11-02-2003, 04:48 PM

I could defintely support a QUALIFIED woman for president. Hillary is not that person!

BoCo · 11-02-2003, 05:11 PM

The only woman I'd vote for is Condie Rice.

Hitlary Clinton would destroy this country, or at least try her best.

HarmlessRabbit · 11-02-2003, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BoCo
The only woman I'd vote for is Condie Rice.

Hitlary Clinton would destroy this country, or at least try her best.

I'd consider voting for Rice, she seems pretty level-headed. I would want to know more about her real thoughts and opinions, I mostly just see her repeating the Bush party line.

Food Eater Lad · 11-02-2003, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HarmlessRabbit
I'd like to discuss again the incongruency here:

The original poster said said:

A reply showed, which the poster did not deny, that she worked on the Watergate case. Certainly, any rational person would admit that Watergate was a famous legal case in USA history.

The original poster replies with:

When faced with an answer to his own question, the poster chose to reframe his question rather than admit that he made a mistake. In fact, a little googling shows that the Watergate trial DID launch the career of Hillary Rodham, and that Watergate actually predated her marriage to Bill Clinton.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/b...20030619.shtml

So, we can see here that the entire original poster's claim, that "<i>She was hired in a law firm after her husband became govenor</i>" is actually factually incorrect.

It is this sort of evasion and denial which I think helps lower the standards of discussion on this forum. If a poster makes a factual error, they should be mature and intelligent enough to admit it.

I worked on a case when I was in a lawfirm that defined the copyrights of human DNA. I was on a team of over 100 lawyers, paralegals and research assistance.
So Can I run for office and say I was on this landmark case?

When i read about Watergate, and I have, for ten years. I have not heard HIlary's name mentioned, that is untill the above post.
Methinks had she been important to the case, her name would have popped up before. I suspect this is overinflating her worth after she has become famous. WHy is here name not mentioned in any books about Watergate? Any movies? Was she a gloried research asistanct? What did she do on the case? I think its a bit overblown.

JumpinJesus · 11-02-2003, 07:57 PM

I, too, think she would make a good run. That, however, does not mean that I think she'd make a good president. No one can ever predict what kind of presidency a person will have.

Who would have ever guessed that she'd be elected senator from NY?

Personally, I'd like to see Mario Cuomo give it a shot.

HarmlessRabbit · 11-02-2003, 08:17 PM

Quote:

When i read about Watergate, and I have, for ten years. I have not heard HIlary's name mentioned, that is untill the above post.
Methinks had she been important to the case, her name would have popped up before. I suspect this is overinflating her worth after she has become famous. WHy is here name not mentioned in any books about Watergate? Any movies? Was she a gloried research asistanct? What did she do on the case? I think its a bit overblown.

Feel free to wade through the 20,000 hits here:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...=Google+Search

Including conservatives who basically blame her for framing nixon. While she was only 26 at the time, it wasn't hard to find several references, including the one I quoted, saying that the Watergate investigation launched her career.

It's sad that you can't admit that you are wrong. You said she got her lawyer job because Bill Clinton was governor. In fact, she wasn't even married to Bill yet, and his governorship was years away.

We all make mistakes, you made a fairly serious factual error. Admit it. It's right there in your post. You said:

Quote:

She was hired in a law firm after her husband became govenor. You telling me she made it on merit, or for the good connections? I mean what law firm wouldnt want the spouce of their govenor on their team?

The truth is:

Quote:

Like Nixon, Hillary began her career by targeting a public figure: Nixon himself. Hillary's involvement in Watergate launched her career, but it was her marriage to Bill Clinton in 1975 that truly ensured an upward trend. Bill was elected Arkansas attorney general in 1976 and governor of Arkansas in 1978. Meanwhile, Hillary was appointed by Jimmy Carter to the board of the Legal Services Corp. in 1978.

It's really sad to see someone in such a state of denial that they can't even admit that they made a simple mistake.

mml · 11-03-2003, 12:40 PM

Many thanks to HarmlessRabbit for doing more research than I.

It is fairly simple to see that while Hilary's life and career are vastly effected by her marriage to Bill Clinton, she is, in her own right, a very intelligent, capable person. She was already on a path of "greatness", for the lack of a better word, prior to her marriage.

My father is an attorney and worked on several Bar Association committees with her in the 70's. He says that even then, she was the most intelligent and quick-thinking person in the room and that even when she was not chairing the committee, she was always one of the most influential members. Whether or not she would be a good president is a completely different story.

2wolves · 11-03-2003, 06:24 PM

The chirping of crickets is deafening.

2Wolves

Boo · 11-03-2003, 06:41 PM

Hillary - NO! Errr hell NO!

A woman, maybe.

Do we as a country have any real leaders?

Food Eater Lad · 11-03-2003, 09:05 PM

I must thank her for spending 25 million on researching universal health care and getting everyone covered.

I must also thank her for her speach on how America will not tolerate terrorism, nor the nations that harbor them. Then when we act on it, she forgets she ever made that speach.

I also must congradulate her on running the most expensive senatorial campaign in NY history to beat an unknown local politician.

burntmonkey · 11-03-2003, 09:52 PM

As I said in the last thread on the subject, but certainly merits repeating:

Yes! I would most definitely vote Hillary Clinton as President of France.

HarmlessRabbit · 11-03-2003, 11:12 PM

Quote:

I must also thank her for her speach on how America will not tolerate terrorism, nor the nations that harbor them. Then when we act on it, she forgets she ever made that speach.

Kind of like you forgetting the blatant factual errors you made in this thread, eh?

dogzilla · 11-04-2003, 03:10 AM

There is no way I would vote for Hilary. The failed atempt at healthcare is one reason. Another is how she mysteriously turned a $5000 investment in the stock market into a $100,000 profit with little or no investment experience.

2wolves · 11-04-2003, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dogzilla
There is no way I would vote for Hilary. The failed atempt at healthcare is one reason. Another is how she mysteriously turned a $5000 investment in the stock market into a $100,000 profit with little or no investment experience.

Yet lost $40,000 in Whitewater.... which is on the record. Do you have some backup for the $5k into $100K statement?

2Wolves

TheKak · 11-04-2003, 06:45 AM

I would almost rather vote for Al Sharpton.... almost.

WIth her work on education in Ark. she took the state up.... 0 places in national ranking, woo woo good job Hillary! And thanks again for the healthcare, its been working great.

Just because someone is intelligent doesnt mean they would make a good president.

07-07-2003, 09:51 PM	#1 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	Hillary Clinton??? This has come up before, but what are peoples thoughts on her has president? Is America ready for a woman pres? Is America ready for Hillary? I personally figure she would loose horribly due to onservative/Moderates/conservative dem's rallying to the polls. __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

07-07-2003, 11:08 PM	#4 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	Thing about Hillary's book, how many of the people buying the books are actually fans? __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

07-08-2003, 07:09 AM	#7 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	i'm absoultely looking forward to a woman president. this is way past overdue. then, lil girls can truely say "i wanna be president" and really mean it. __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

07-08-2003, 07:59 AM	#8 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	I'd love to see America run by a woman... I just don't think Hilary will be the one to do it. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

07-08-2003, 08:50 AM	#9 (permalink)
sportsrule101 Insane	America could handle a female president, Just not Hillary __________________ winning isn't everything but losing isn't anything

07-07-2003, 11:00 PM	#3 (permalink)
papermachesatan Psycho Location: Texas	I don't know. Kneejerk reaction = No.

07-08-2003, 06:58 PM	#10 (permalink)
mike059 Tilted Location: Pensacola, Florida	Hillary would make a great pres, she has a bigger set of balls than the next three republicans in line. do youreally think that other countries would fuck with us if hillary were in charge???

07-08-2003, 08:20 PM	#11 (permalink)
tikki Justified Location: West Lafayette, IN	If we are going to have a woman as a president, fine, but if it's Hillary Clinton I am moving to Canada. I do not trust any Clinton, and Hillary's constant yelling and preaching about the horrible job Bush is doing annoys me. She always sounds so mad. Well, besides in that soft interview with Barbara Walters. __________________ Take notice. Take interest. Take me with you.

10-31-2003, 03:10 PM	#13 (permalink)
Dilbert1234567 Devils Cabana Boy Location: Central Coast CA	damn strait id vote for her, she is wating till 2k8 i think so there will be no emcumbant __________________ Donate Blood! "Love is not finding the perfect person, but learning to see an imperfect person perfectly." -Sam Keen

10-31-2003, 03:34 PM	#14 (permalink)
Food Eater Lad Banned	Why would anyone want her? What has she done? Her track record is abysmal. She was hired in a law firm after her husband became govenor. You telling me she made it on merit, or for the good connections? I mean what law firm wouldnt want the spouce of their govenor on their team? What famous case did she work on? Then her next real job was to get universal health care. After 25 million was spent, no heath care. Then she spends the highest amount in NY history to beat a NO Name assemblymen for a seat in the senate. Lots of cash to beat a local politician, real impressive. Then she makes strong, powerful speaches about how the USA will not tolerate terrorism, how if you harbor terrorists, you are a terrorists. How we will fight you till the bitter end, and then turns around and attacks the president for doing what she said we should do in her speach. I dont know if any of you heard her being booed off the stage when she spoke in Madison Square Garden after 9 11, but its pretty indicative how how most NYer feel about her. She needed the most expensive sentorial campaign in NY history to beat a no name local politician, as GUilani bowed out after his bout with Cancer, and was booed by her constituents. Imagin how much money she will need to beat a real candidate. This is why she is not running in 04. She knows she cant even carry NY.

10-31-2003, 04:38 PM	#15 (permalink)
maximusveritas Winner	Hmmm...running on her last name and connections, rather than her own merit? Hillary sounds alot like President Bush. I would prefer it if she didn't run for President. It's not that she's a woman, but that i don't think she's qualified for the job. Plus, the fact that she's such a polarizing figure would hurt her. She was able to win NY because of the strong Democratic base, but she'll have a much tougher time nationally.

10-31-2003, 04:47 PM	#16 (permalink)
Food Eater Lad Banned	She won NY cause Guiliani had cancer.

10-31-2003, 06:02 PM	#19 (permalink)
Food Eater Lad Banned	The boos can heard if you download her speach from KAZA. The funniest part is when she started to talk louder to over come the boos, and the boos became even louder that you cant hear her at all. I guess she could make the same claim that micheal moore did about the oscars, " the boos were from people booing the booers" Ya right.

11-01-2003, 07:17 PM	#20 (permalink)
2wolves Psycho Location: Just outside the D.C. belt	In my opinion some follower of FNC, Newmax, FreeRepublic, MRC, White Aryan Party, CCC, LaRouche-ite et al would assassinate her before she could take office. And she's not unaware of it. 2Wolves

11-02-2003, 01:16 PM	#22 (permalink)
Food Eater Lad Banned	Right it was her outstanding work on the Watergate trial right that made her famous.... ya right.

11-02-2003, 02:51 PM	#24 (permalink)
Shauk Confused Adult Location: Spokane, WA	yeah did I mention that I think HarmlessRabbit is rad? yeah i did in another thread. cuz you wield ownage

11-02-2003, 03:51 PM	#25 (permalink)
eple Banned Location: norway	Anyone who don't think a woman will make a firm leader...one word: Margaret Thatcher.... Okay bad example (and that is two words. technically), but she didn't take shit from anybody, that's for sure :P.

11-02-2003, 04:48 PM	#26 (permalink)
Aesik Tilted	I could defintely support a QUALIFIED woman for president. Hillary is not that person!

11-02-2003, 05:11 PM	#27 (permalink)
BoCo Fear the bunny Location: Hanging off the tip of the Right Wing	The only woman I'd vote for is Condie Rice. Hitlary Clinton would destroy this country, or at least try her best. __________________ Activism is a way for useless people to feel important.

11-02-2003, 07:57 PM	#30 (permalink)
JumpinJesus Junkie Location: Chicago	I, too, think she would make a good run. That, however, does not mean that I think she'd make a good president. No one can ever predict what kind of presidency a person will have. Who would have ever guessed that she'd be elected senator from NY? Personally, I'd like to see Mario Cuomo give it a shot. __________________ "I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am" - Cormac McCarthy, All The Pretty Horses

11-03-2003, 12:40 PM	#32 (permalink)
mml Adrift Location: Wandering in the Desert of Life	Many thanks to HarmlessRabbit for doing more research than I. It is fairly simple to see that while Hilary's life and career are vastly effected by her marriage to Bill Clinton, she is, in her own right, a very intelligent, capable person. She was already on a path of "greatness", for the lack of a better word, prior to her marriage. My father is an attorney and worked on several Bar Association committees with her in the 70's. He says that even then, she was the most intelligent and quick-thinking person in the room and that even when she was not chairing the committee, she was always one of the most influential members. Whether or not she would be a good president is a completely different story. __________________ Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." -Douglas Adams

11-03-2003, 06:24 PM	#33 (permalink)
2wolves Psycho Location: Just outside the D.C. belt	The chirping of crickets is deafening. 2Wolves

11-03-2003, 06:41 PM	#34 (permalink)
Boo Leave me alone! Location: Alaska, USA	Hillary - NO! Errr hell NO! A woman, maybe. Do we as a country have any real leaders? __________________ Back button again, I must be getting old.

11-03-2003, 09:05 PM	#35 (permalink)
Food Eater Lad Banned	I must thank her for spending 25 million on researching universal health care and getting everyone covered. I must also thank her for her speach on how America will not tolerate terrorism, nor the nations that harbor them. Then when we act on it, she forgets she ever made that speach. I also must congradulate her on running the most expensive senatorial campaign in NY history to beat an unknown local politician.

11-03-2003, 09:52 PM	#36 (permalink)
burntmonkey Tilted	As I said in the last thread on the subject, but certainly merits repeating: Yes! I would most definitely vote Hillary Clinton as President of France.

11-04-2003, 03:10 AM	#38 (permalink)
dogzilla Junkie Location: New York	There is no way I would vote for Hilary. The failed atempt at healthcare is one reason. Another is how she mysteriously turned a $5000 investment in the stock market into a $100,000 profit with little or no investment experience.

11-04-2003, 06:45 AM	#40 (permalink)
TheKak Insane Location: Virginia	I would almost rather vote for Al Sharpton.... almost. WIth her work on education in Ark. she took the state up.... 0 places in national ranking, woo woo good job Hillary! And thanks again for the healthcare, its been working great. Just because someone is intelligent doesnt mean they would make a good president. __________________ Roses are red, violets are blue, I'm a schizophrenic and so am I.