Anonymous Member

Bricks have been hurled through Democrats' windows, a propane line was cut at the home of a congressman's brother and lawmakers who voted for a federal health care bill have received phone threats in the days before and after passage of the sweeping legislation.

Authorities are investigating incidents in Kansas, Virginia and other places, including Rochester, N.Y., where a brick tossed through the window of a county Democratic Party office had a note attached that said: "Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice," roughly quoting the late Barry Goldwater, the 1964 Republican presidential nominee.

The FBI and Capitol Police were briefing Democratic lawmakers on how to handle perceived security threats after at least 10 reported incidents, said House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Md.

Those who feel they are at risk will be "getting attention from the proper authorities," Hoyer said, declining to say whether any are now receiving added security. Normally only those in leadership positions have personal security guards.

The threats surprised an official with a think tank that monitors extremist groups.

"I think it is astounding that we are seeing this wave of vigilantism," said Mark Potok of the Alabama-based Southern Poverty Law Center.

In Virginia, authorities were investigating after someone cut a propane line leading to a grill at the Charlottesville home of U.S. Rep. Tom Perriello's brother. Perriello also said a threatening letter was sent to his brother's house.

The home's address was posted online by tea party activists angry about the Virginia Democrat's vote in favor of the health care overhaul. They had mistaken the brother's address for that of the lawmaker.

Potok compared the online posting of a public official's address to tactics used by hate groups.

"This is what neo Nazi leaders in America do today," Potok said. "They post personal information about their enemies and sit back and wait for somebody else to act."

In western New York, police are investigating after bricks were thrown through windows at two Democratic offices, but there have been no arrests. One was thrown through a window at Democratic Rep. Louise Slaughter's district office in Niagara Falls early Friday.

Slaughter, whose district stretches from Rochester to the Buffalo area, has been a key supporter of the health care reform bill passed by the House on Sunday.

Sometime from late Saturday or Sunday in Rochester, N.Y., a brick was hurled at a wooden-framed glass door of the county Democratic Committee offices. The county party's spokesman, Sean Hart, said the glass "only spider-webbed" but didn't shatter, and the brick then appeared to have been picked up and thrown through the adjoining glass door.

CandleInTheDark

I am not sure that you can attribute such incidents to an entire party, or political wing. Who could ignore the multiple death threats to George W. Bush during protests by opposition forces? This isn't a Republican thing, it's a wacko, crazy extremist thing, of which both sides possess elements.

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Where there is doubt there is freedom.

dksuddeth

this is what happens when those who are elected to office forget who it is they are working for. If you ignore the will of the people, who are the soveriegn power in this country, then you will be reminded.....hopefully you'll get the point.

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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

filtherton

I don't know if you can put it on all Republicans. I think a more apt thread title would be "The most vocal proponents of the Republican Party's goals are sore losers."

I think it will be interesting to see if those in charge of the party can successfully straddle this line they've made for themselves where on one side they fill people's heads with frightening thoughts using half-truths and outright falsehoods, practically begging their followers to do something stupid and counterproductive and on the other side they halfheartedly denounce the folks who take their hints and do something stupid and counterproductive.

dksuddeth

they are screwed either way they go. damned if you do and damned if you don't. they made their bed, now they can lie in it.

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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

dc_dux

I agree you cant blane the extremist actions on the Republican party, just as you cant blame some of vitriol exposed right before the vote (shouting n word at Black Congressmen and gay slurs at Barney Frank....

But you can blames the Senate Republicans for the latest childish action of imposing a rarely, if ever, used Senate rule that prohibits any hearings after 2:00 pm.

Today, Senate Homeland Security subcommittee oversight hearing on Contracts for Afghan National Police Training had to be canceled as well as an Armed Services Committee hearing in which military commanders flew in from Japan and Korea....just two of many canceled and preventing the Senate from performing its oversight responsibilities.

Petty?

Or some may think its a good thing!

__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

filtherton

I bet they're just trying to spot the Democrats some political points to make it seem more fair this fall, since, you know, the Republicans are going to retake congress in November .

pan6467

I also see the way BOTH sides handle how things are done as a major problem.

It's not a "war" or a "battle" and shouldn't be about "winning" or "losing" to people. It's about bettering OUR country as a whole.

Whether we agree with what is passed or not, the ONLY way we will get betterment for all is through POSITIVE RESPECT and not trying to just beat people into submission. All negativity brings about is more negativity. And it eventually brings about so much negative energy, thoughts, anger, angst that people start not caring or getting more and more negative....

OUR country has too much negativity. It starts with the man we call president and flows downward. That's what I loved about Bill Clinton and Reagan. They could be battered and battered by Congress but they were in their own ways positive and tried to reach out to the other side and work together and our country flourished.

we have had since 2001 is negativity from the top down. It's no longer about "bettering the country" it's all about "winning and losing" and in return the citizens are the ones that are paying for these negative power plays.

It's time to change the politicians thinking and OUR thinking. We all are in this together. We can either work and build in positive ways or we can continue to destroy and tear down all that for 200+ years this country was built on. Teamwork, freedom, RESPECTING OTHERS, and so on.

It is up to us to decide who and what we are to be by who we elect and how we look at what positive changes can be made to better all people.

IF we can rebuild in positive ways, we will again flourish. If we continue being negative and electing negative people and looking at issues as "wars" and "battles", we will get more negativity and fall apart. We won't need an army to invade us or to go bankrupt, our negativity alone is all we need to destroy us.

The above I posted to my facebook earlier today.

Hence my apology on another thread and my anniversary work to change my tone and how I deliver my dissent. As long as both sides have leaders looking at passing bills as "winning" and "losing" OUR country will continue to divide and fall apart.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

SecretMethod70

Yeah, man, that 49% plurality of people who are glad health care legislation passed... clearly not representing the will of the 40% who aren't.On this, pan, you are 100% correct.

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

Charlatan

So officials elected on a platform to bring about health care reform are elected with a clear majority... they go on to make said reform. That's how representative democracy works.

What you are suggesting is a tail wagging a dog.

What you are suggesting is not what is available under the system your founding fathers created.

Perhaps you need to find another country in which to achieve the results you wish to see because the fundamental structures of your electoral and political system are working just as they were intended.

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"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

dksuddeth

I must have dreamed about the millions of liberals who were damned mad about the conservatives passing questionable (some I would call unconstitutional) laws with just a 51% majority. There was a popular phrase back then as well, something along the lines of 'rights of the minority.

Interesting that none of that applies now, when it concerns your own special project or concern.

---------- Post added at 07:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:25 PM ----------

really? is there anywhere in the constitution that clearly states that the people shall not resort to violence when their rights are being violated and written away while the courts rubber stamp it? Because i'm sure I can find a few inferences where the framers of the constitution and the writer of the declaration stated just that very thing.

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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

Shauk

Repubs become that which they hate the most, terrorists in our homeland.

While people scream and shout that this bill is turning America in to a socialist regime, even satirist can find the flaw in that logic by showing the opposite direction ends up in a totalitarian theocracy.

I'm surprised, I didn't see anyone mention the fact that these teabaggers disrespect the rights this country has worked so hard to give to it's culturally diverse population by calling members of the house things like niggers, faggots, etc. and other things I would expect out of a petulant teenager who had poor parenting.

The south will rise again they say, well if it does, we'll gladly shit all over it again. This confederacy era thinking, the scorn for government, a HELPFUL government, for the people, by the people, make absolutely zero sense.

The only reason they sought to escape and start a new country was because the government they left was a monarchy, not a republic.
Apples and Oranges.

I really hate the stupid illogical members of this society that insist on dragging us back to the primitive era of civil rights when it was just White people owning black people and whatever else it is these douchebags hold dear.

Charlatan

Here is what you wrote:
Those in elected office *are* doing what they were elected to do. The Democrats campaigned on a platform of health care reform. The Republicans did not.

Once in power, the Democrats did exactly what they said they would do and worked to bring about the reform. The Republican electeded officials worked to stop it.

BOTH sides worked to serve the interests of their electorate by taking the appropriate actions upon which they ran for office.

To be clear: They do not appear to have forgotten for whom they are working. They are enacting the will of the people who elected them.


This is *not* in any way the same as a tyranny of the majority. Not even close.

If we were to follow your logic, it could be argued that if there were a sizable enough minority who didn't want to pay taxes, take out car insurance, ban automatic weapons, have sex with children, etc. We should make allowances for them *or* strike down the existing laws (Constitutional or otherwise) and let it happen.

For you to equate Health Care reform to equal rights for homosexuals, women, etc. is to miss the point of equal rights entirely.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

pan6467

When you have 1 side gloating and one side talking about how bad all this is, no matter how right or wrong the legislation truly is you divide the people the bill is supposed to be helping.

This whole process was not about the Dems helping the people it was about POWER. Just as it wasn't and isn't about the GOP fighting for what the majority wants... it's about POWER. The whole time this was a game of who's dick is bigger and THAT is ALL it was about. Neither side now cares about what is right or wrong or is in the best interest of ALL the people. It is all about POWER and who has the biggest.......

That is why this is so sad, so volatile so negative so wrong.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

filtherton

Pan, it's pretty clear to me that what this is all about in reality has little connection with what this is all about in your head. No offense, I think you're a good guy and all, but it's difficult to have this conversation over and over again.

The real reason this situation is so sad is that it isn't really sad, but that there is a great deal of political hay to be made by making it seem more tragic than it actually is.

Charlatan

I think we can all agree that political power is an aspect of just about anything that goes down in Washington. As such, I find its pretty much a wash. It taints everything and nothing.

I look at the results and ask: Given the acrimony and difficulty to get *anything* done in Washington is this a step in the right direction? To my eyes, yes it is.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

pan6467

Can you honestly sit there and say that the Dems did the BEST they possibly could for EVERY MAN WOMAN AND CHILD IN THE UNITED STATES?

If you can, then I suspect (just a guess) you are blinded by partisan politics and short of some serious travesty would find what they do acceptable no matter what. I am probably wrong and I am sure you will tell me so, but as I said it was a guess.

I honestly do not believe EITHER party did the best they could and that is what I stated. MY OPINION.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Idyllic

So I read these posts and wondered if there was anything worth saying or commenting on and all I came to was that it doesn't matter if your republican, liberal, democrat, leftist, righty, pro bill, no bill, it really in the end doesn't matter a hill of beans if we can't work together toward a resolve with amicable results, that is what we all truly want.

We all want are neighbors healthy, we all want life, liberty and the pursuit if happiness, we all want personal freedom, and none of these can be achieved with petty childish behavior and name calling.

Pigeon-holing people and judging them because of what party they like to drink at, really isn't America. The best party ever, no matter, is the one we are all at together. There is just no excuse for violence among our brother and sister Americans, it is a lack of maturity and self control in individuals who lack self discipline, shame on them.

I do not agree with terrorist mentality or behavior, it damages all the fair perceptions of honest and good American character not just party lines, fuck politics, it reflects on all Americans as a nation and depicts us as the immature nation we are, adolescent and growing, the youngest nation in the world, we do have our growing pains, lets just hope, somehow we grow together and not apart, for all our sakes.

Stop party line name calling, it's just immature, a person crosses the line when they resort to violence to express their opinions, period, at that point they are just a criminal, not a patriot, we all know that, republican or democrat, we are still in this together.

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you can tell them all you want but it won't matter until they think it does

p.s. I contradict my contradictions, with or without intention, sometimes.

dippin

Does this bill prevent the "BEST they possibly could for EVERY MAN WOMAN AND CHILD IN THE UNITED STATES" from coming true?

The question is not whether something is the "BEST they possibly could for EVERY MAN WOMAN AND CHILD IN THE UNITED STATES," the question is whether this is better than the status quo.

When the people willing the rant and rave the loudest still have no clue what is in the bill, yet they rant and rave, it is very hard to reach "the BEST."

Charlatan

Just a heads up... the US is not the youngest nation in the world. Please have a look at this list of nations listed by their Independence Days from oldest to youngest: Independence Day for Every Country

/end threadjack

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"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

pan6467

Perhaps. OR perhaps, this is a chest thumping "I have a bigger schlong" bill.

See, whereas, you may settle for what the bill is (and I wonder how much is just partisan pride), I choose to want to believe they could have done better, BOTH SIDES. I don't believe that they even tried to get something done that was better. The GOP played games and the Dems played games, neither side willing or wanting to work together to find a better bill.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Baraka_Guru

You know, all this comes down to essentially the same problem: the two-party system kinda sucks.

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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Idyllic

Based on its concepts of constitutional freedoms with no historical link to the land it grew upon, that kind of young nation, not a place that split from another body on the same shared land to create its own nation.

Sorry for not elaborating on that the first time.. you know the whole American E thing you guys all hate me to use, and then make me have to explain, I've been trying not to use it so as not to offend anyone and make them think I am some American supremacy idiot, which I am not, so stop asking.

---------- Post added at 10:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:29 PM ----------

yin-yang, how can you appreciate the left if you don't have the right to contradict it and make you question reality and how can you appreciate the right if you don't have the left reminding you to take notice to what is breathing around you. How could we have the AFC without the NFC, how could we not have perspective and debate and learn and listen and argue and play, America is a place of unique freedom, where people enjoy the sucky two-party equality and its check and balances.

It is the true enjoyment of competition we desire to excel at and prove ourselves with nothing to hold us back but the people who say we can't do that. Like can't have speakers who may say incendiary things, if that were reality, we would have no comics. God bless America.

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you can tell them all you want but it won't matter until they think it does

p.s. I contradict my contradictions, with or without intention, sometimes.

Baraka_Guru

But you don't need a two-party system to have these things.

It doesn't sound like you've been enjoying it lately, and I don't know how you can call them equal. Do you mean by general relative size/political power? And the American system isn't the only one with an effective system of checks and balances.

Again, this isn't unique to the two-party system.

Don't you see the disadvantages of a two-party system? I mean, I know technically there are other parties, but they hold no real political power. Don't you see a problem with that? Is the Republican response somewhat tied into the mentality of "we have only one political adversary"?

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Idyllic

Filtherton, if you took a moment to try to see it from pans' POV maybe you could concede a little in the "we don't want to give up any freedom period" issue, but funny as you say pans' argument is all just reality in his head it echos the same in yours just the other side.

I think you are both throwing rocks at the same mound, just not realizing your both trying to fill up the same hole. I think its rude to assume he doesn't understand your point of view and say he is out of touch with the reality of the situation when you have never once conceded the fact that you really may be giving up quite a bit of freedom, quite a bit, and yet repeatedly both pan and I and most who are debating this are not suggesting preventing health care for all, just attempting to insure Americans basic freedoms as well.

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you can tell them all you want but it won't matter until they think it does

p.s. I contradict my contradictions, with or without intention, sometimes.

Derwood

color me shocked that dk supports the terrorist actions of these thugs

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"You can't shoot a country until it becomes a democracy." - Willravel

dc_dux

It is not the tone or the POV that I find frustrating....it is the repetition and regurgitation of the same old baseless talking points that are simply factually incorrect. ( I can provide numerous examples).

And, IMO, the lack of intellectual curiosity to learn more about the legislation (can find lots of partisan opinions to support one's pre-conceived agenda but "couldnt find the bill? wtf!) if it might challenge one's basic assumptions.

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"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

Idyllic

That's just it, I don't have a political adversary, I don't even have a dogged "political" opinion, but I have many personal and individual thoughts. I have an idea of what some parties tend to lean towards, but I think most Americans linger at the top of the political bell curve. I think other countries make more of our politics that we do, for us it's part of the freedom, it's part of life. I like the excitement, and the drama can be entertaining. You know what Baraka, I just love America, warts and all. No I'm not calling Obama a wart.

---------- Post added at 11:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:07 PM ----------

It took me a while to find it also, but I kept looking and was grateful when it was made available to me. I'm sure as someone who understands policy, you know sometimes one must reiterate in a myriad of ways to cover all your bases, and make all you points.

I think if you felt the way we do about the whole freedom issue, or at least accepted it as a potential personal threat you would not see it as regurgitation but more as an opportunity to continue attempting to convince those who don't conform that it's o,k, to give up a little freedom, right. I mean if its for a for a good cause and all, right.

Don't give up on us so easy dc_dux you never know when one of us will break and saw, ah shucks ya'll were right, hell it's just a little freedom, who needs it anyway when we got such great and trusted people to take care of us, right?

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you can tell them all you want but it won't matter until they think it does

p.s. I contradict my contradictions, with or without intention, sometimes.

Plan9

Aaah, yes... "freedom!" That amorphous concept used as a battle cry by those that don't know what it's like to go a day without it.

Turns out freedom is a subjective term, not a Hormel product that is canned and distributed to whitebread America as part of their birthright.

"Were you surprised? I was surprised."

Hell, I've seen some local idjits lowering American flags, displaying the flag upside down, hoisting Gadsden "Don't Tread on Me"s, etc. It's downright ridiculous. As far as the flag, they're disrespecting the symbol of 200+ years of national progress over a relatively petty issue... one that will probably be glossed over in a history textbook 50 years from now as a stepping stone to something a major world power does for its people. Some of my $100k/year neighbors are hoarding 5.56 and preparing for The Man to come and assault their compound. What the fuck, over? Did I miss the Armageddon memo?

Please. Enough of the fucking man tantrums. I'm sure the same crowd had issues when blacks became human and women became voters.

...

It's like two very different worlds in the same country.

...

To all the democrats? Congratulations on mediocrity. To all the paranoid conservative/Republican lemmings? The cliff is that way.

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

dc_dux

I think you are missing my point about repeating baseless talking points.

"poor folks making $10/hr will have to pay money they cant afford"

"Senior will lose their basic Medicare benefits"

"Govt bureaucrats will make your health care decisions"

They're gonna "pull the plug" on Grandma!

The list goes on and on.

This has nothing to do with chipping away at individual freedoms....it is fear mongering at its worst and not grounded in reality.

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"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

Willravel

A majority of Americans support this legislation. It's the angry, confused, spiteful minority with bricks. What happens when you follow the will of the people and you're still threatened? Isn't that a less noble thing?

BTW, the thread title should probably be Some Republicans are Weak-Minded Cowards. That way we're not lumping all Republicans together, but we're giving the guilty Republicans what for.

Plan9

Yeah... ya know, I don't recall throwing bricks at anybody when the Clinton AWB went through.

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Idyllic

There is a place you can go to calculate what this bill means to you monetarily and yes, anyone making over 35,000.00 will be paying, one way or another, actually both, insurance and taxes. Some people will be hurt by these additional fees, fact.

There has been a great deal of discussion about how this bill will water down medicare, that is a fact, whether it happens or not is yet to be seen.

It will not be the bureaucrats, it will be who the bureaucrats put in the position of making decisions, along with the insurance companies, they will be the regulators and money handlers, the gov will just pay the bill.

They may not pull the plug on grandma, but they will definitely help her put her hand on it if she wants to. They will lean more towards respectful death than a vegi life, which I actually agree with, but that's my warped thinking. They will not be advocates for or attempt to sell late in life extreme measures to preserve the living, it would be fiscally irresponsible of them to try and keep old people alive, simple economics that one.

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you can tell them all you want but it won't matter until they think it does

p.s. I contradict my contradictions, with or without intention, sometimes.

Shauk

Man, you know what would get people involved in politics? a 2 party society instead of just a 2 party government.

Want to register as a republican and decry the government? oh well you're not allowed to live your life in hypocrisy anymore. You wont have to pay taxes, but you also wont be able to use publicly funded roads, take advantage of public emergency services. That's right, your house is burning down? hope you have water to put it out, oh wait, you can't use the public water source either.

but most of all, hey, you wont have to worry about that pesky health care bill.

dippin

Again, false.

What does the health-care law mean to me? (washingtonpost.com)

The amount of falsehoods you've been saying is astounding.

Charlatan

In that case, by your definition both Singapore and Canada are younger than the United States. And very strong arguments, using your definition, could be made for much of Latin America being younger than the United States.

Sorry to nit pick.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

pan6467

Ya know the title of this thread is inflammatory in and of itself. It implies ALL Republicans believe in violence and are sore losers.

If the bill hadn't passed the Dems would be crying foul and being sore losers (I don't think there's have been violence but who knows given today's society).

People that use violence are using things like this as an excuse to do violent acts. There should be no "the Republicans are sore losers look at the violence". These people would have found another reason.

We are so divided, we are fed so much negativity and hatred on BOTH sides it's fucking ridiculous.

I know that people here are going to find fault and tell me how wrong I am with the next statement but ya know what..... I believe it is more true than anything that goes through the small minds of partisan people who are happy when things go their way and want to see failure when things don't go their way (and YES, I AM INCLUDED in that, hopefully, though I am changing and can recognize it before I allow the negativity to spew out.)

The statement I believe: The vast majority of US citizens (probably 85+%) want nothing more than to be able to own (rent) a place they can call home, have a decent standard of living and be able to have enough money to afford to live. The politicians and extreme partisans don't care about those people. All they care about is power and getting WHAT THEY WANT... not what is best for the country. Thus, they feed the division and negativity in this country. People are fed up, depressed and living in fear of losing everything they worked for and all our politicians and partisans care about is the power they wield.

And I think the biggest problem with the health care bill, isn't what is in it or what isn't but how it was PERCEIVED (which was shady) to be passed, the gloating and the fact that for the first time I can remember people truly spoke out and kept saying "NO" and their voices were ignored. The Dems. didn't EVEN try to explain what was being passed and allowed the people to believe the negativity (which in and of itself is negative and not a positive). So if you pass this bill and allow negativity to grow and add to it, of course anger and negativity will be the result. Then the GOP didn't OFFER anything except negativity. Thus adding more to the anger and negativity of the people.

People are losing good paying jobs, their homes, unable to barely eek out an existence and our leaders just keep piling on negativity. That is not the sign of people that want to better the country. That is poor leadership and a way to destroy a country and people. It starts at the top with Obama, it goes through ALL Congress and flows into our very homes.

This fucking negativity has to end and we need LEADERS that will bring true hope, true change and true belief back to this country. Unfortunately after all this, there is no doubt in my mind we have the wrong people (ON BOTH SIDES) to do this.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

WinchesterAA

Anger is more accurately reflected by the hockey stick than is global warming.

Slow and gradual at first, only one person "going japanese" on an IRS building per reasonable amount of time, and bricks through the windows of a few choice politicians, then in a compounding manner, add more, and more, and more instances of the above (and other similarly describable activities) until .gov snaps, unleashes the law, and all hell breaks loose in the good ol' USA.

pan6467

And for someone like me who can see conspiracy in anything. How hard would it be to have a hotbed, unpopular bill passed and then have threats and acts of violence against those voting yes.... to the point where either the people get scared and don't speak out on the bill OR martial Law is declared.. and the people committing the true acts are but government operatives?

I know farfetched... watched too many conspiracy movies.... have an overactive imagination.

But in my defense, the Dems know that the bill was extremely unpopular and that they may lose Congress. What easier way to hold power?

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

WinchesterAA

.gov has a long history of utilizing provocateurs.


COINTELPRObably a bad idea