YaWhateva

I will just say this, I meant that they are taking what was said in the past (I am fairly certain Sean Hannity had a special about Obama's birth certificate saying it was lies back before the election even if he never believed it) and are still sticking to that shtick even if they disagree with the birthers now. I know Sean Hannity had a special about Obama being a secret Muslim and people still cling to that. The youtube video I have was taken down for 'copyright reasons' but I can find another if you want.

Sorry dc, /threadjack.

About the Census, I don't understand how people can contort the Census into something like this. It just comes off as scary that a certain few people can inspire so much fear in select groups that they can make a Census into something evil.

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aceventura3

From the original post:

The credibility of Beck and Rush are central to the discussion as framed in the OP.

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"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

Derwood

The people in this country (and this thread) who are going to balk at filling out the census are the people who have a fight to pick with every facet of government at all times. It must be exhausting

dc_dux

ace...by all means, add your perspective on Beck/Rush and the census.....it would a refreshing change to have you address an issue directly and not go off on an unrelated tangent.

---------- Post added at 07:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:09 PM ----------

For the record, in a 2001 Court decision, the Court ruled that both the short form and the long form (American Community Survey) are constitutional.
But I suspect that makes them "activist judges" in the mind of some....

...despite the fact that in 1790, at the time of the first census, Madison (the "father of the Constitution" before he became president) spoke for many of his colleagues in promoting the census to "embrace some other objects besides the bare enumeration of the inhabitants; it would enable them to adapt the public measures to the particular circumstances of the community."

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aceventura3

I stated that in my view 99.9% of the American population will not change their behavior regarding the census because of people like Beck or Rush. After that I responded to questions and responses to my posts. It is becoming more and more clear that some people are simply creating their own little "boogy men", this issue illustrates that. Conservatives are going to participate in the census, period. It is not an issue, so what is the deal with Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, and all the other "boogy men" you folks create? The same was done with the "birthers". How much more direct do you want my response to be?

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

Derwood

if you think we're creating boogey men, then I don't really care what else you have to say on the issue, as you're already wrong. It's a dismissive attitude towards a real problem.

aceventura3

What is the real problem from your point of view?

Are conservatives going to participate in the census?
Are conservatives going to hurt their cause, representation, funding by not participating in the census?
Do you think Beck and a Representative from Minnesota (Michele Bachmann) have the power to have a measurable influence on the issue?

My answers are: Yes, No, and No.

How do we differ? Or, is it that I am one of your boogy men? Booo!

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

Cimarron29414

1) The issue needs to reach SCOTUS and be decided once and for all. I would abide by the decision of SCOTUS and then encourage my legislators to change the law.
2) Madison may have wanted it to expand past enumeration as an efficient way to provide demographics to local governments. It that was the purpose of the current census, I would enthusiastically fill it out.
3) The census is no longer used for the collection of data for distribution to local governments. It is used for distributing federal funds through entitlement programs. Those of us who believe those programs are outside of the duties of the federal government choose not to participate in the means necessary to perpetuate them.
4) The census is not evil. Neither is a gun. It is simply a tool which can become dangerous (to life, liberty, and property) when misused.
5) I understand that you disagee. I am restating my position concisely.

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rahl

Beck is directing people not to fill out the census, people listen to him and agree not to fill it out. By not filling out the census correctly conservatives are hurting funding based on census results and representation. These are clear and irrefutable facts.

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Derwood

additionally, the people who listen to Beck then tell their like-minded friends what he said, and they do the same. Why ace insists that Beck/whoever's influence is confined to the viewership #'s is beyond me

Cimarron29414

You doth protest too much. I suspect you have a bit of a crush on Beck.

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Gives a man a halo, does mead.

"Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

rahl

These aren't just idle claims. The rhetoric and lies that beck and his kind spue are adopted and repeated by almost every single conservative. The amount of people who take every word they say as sacred is frightening.

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ASU2003

The problem with the 1% or 5% in Rush's case that listen (or support that position) to him go to these to town halls, write their congressmen, and fund a lot of political campaigns. This causes a few more percentage to think things aren't good an nothing should be done. Even though they would be better off if it was changed.

Derwood

honestly, I've never watched his show or listened to his radio show. My knowledge of him is strictly 2nd hand

aceventura3

Have you ever watched Joe Scarborough, Morning Joe on MSNBC. I don't know if he commented on the census non-controversy but he did comment on the Obama speech to schools non-controversy (non-controversy to me is defined as an issue blown way out of porportion by 24 hr. news shows), and pretty much thinks it is stupid.

Scarborough is conservative and doesn't share Beck' views on many issues. I am a conservative and I don't share Beck's views on many issues. Should we conclude that your statement is a lie that you and your kind spew are adopted and repeated by almost every single liberal?

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

roachboy

i was going to make a long post refuting your view, ace, but then i decided that it was perhaps more fun and effective to simply post this gil scott-heron song.
if you play it, listen all the way through. the last couple minutes is a summary of what i take your viewpoint to be based on. but getting to those last two minutes is kinda fun. enjoy.

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spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

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rahl

First of all I'm not a liberal, second of all, conservative arguments against healthcare and against the census are the same as beck's so do the math. I know many people who are otherwise intellegent except when they try to argue against these issues. When presented with the facts they try to deflect to some totally irrelevant point, typically the way that you do.

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"Your life is Yours alone...Rise up and live it"

aceventura3

Was your statement a lie or not?

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

rahl

Not in any way.

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"Your life is Yours alone...Rise up and live it"

aceventura3

Brings back memories. Scott came out with that when I was in college, and I was grooven right along with him - at the time. Times change. There is a difference between a guy like Beck and a guy like Reagan. I think the difference is Reagan actually believed his lines. Reagan was actually able to persuade people to act in ways different from their normal predisposition. Reagan focused on the positive. Reagan was a leader.

---------- Post added at 10:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:50 PM ----------

..."almost every conservative...", o.k.

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

rahl

Every conservative argument on this forum and in the news is exactly the same as becks. Is that a coincidence?

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"Your life is Yours alone...Rise up and live it"

aceventura3

I am not a "birther"
I am going to fill out my census form
My son is not going to miss Obama's speech next week.
I am conservative.
I don't even regularly watch Beck's show, The few times I have seen it, I did not like it.

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

Cimarron29414

I knew that. You didn't have to tell me.

__________________
Gives a man a halo, does mead.

"Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

ottopilot

Well, at least a bit good news from all of this... the Census just issued a statement that have severed all ties with ACORN beginning immediately!

Stay tuned!

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