08-04-2009, 08:14 AM | #1 (permalink) | |
Eat your vegetables
Super Moderator
Location: Arabidopsis-ville
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Bill Clinton Meets Kim Jong-il
Is Bill Clinton overstepping his bounds?
Should a former president take on a role as a diplomat? Give me successful examples of former heads of state making progress in similar situations. I've shortened the following article for brevity's sake. Here's a link to the full article from the New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/05/wo...ef=global-home Quote:
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08-04-2009, 09:00 AM | #2 (permalink) |
Junkie
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The last paragraph of the quote is key. This isn't a truly private visit. He has the full support of the White House, therefore I don't see how he can be overstepping his bounds.
It doesn't matter if previous former POTUSs have done similar things. There is no rule that states a POTUS can't continue to be a resource to a current administration. Past success/failure is irrelevant. |
08-04-2009, 09:46 AM | #3 (permalink) |
Tilted Cat Head
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Location: Manhattan, NY
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I see confusion in this. Since Hillary is currently Secretary of State, I believe if anyone should be jockeying for the reporters it should be her. Since she's off attending to other issues, Bill seems like to me, stepping in her stead, but via the auspices of "president."
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08-04-2009, 10:02 AM | #4 (permalink) |
Still Free
Location: comfortably perched at the top of the bell curve!
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Bill Clinton had more success than any other U.S. diplomat at getting the N.K.s to talk. Since there are two lives at stake, I have no problem with this. If he promises to build them better missiles in exchange for the girls, then I have a problem with it. I certainly hope, since CEOs now have to pay for their lunch at the White House, that these two reporters will get the bill for their release, once secured.
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08-04-2009, 10:11 AM | #6 (permalink) | |
Kick Ass Kunoichi
Location: Oregon
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Quote:
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08-04-2009, 11:46 AM | #7 (permalink) | |
Junkie
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He got the job done.
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08-04-2009, 12:21 PM | #9 (permalink) | |
Still Free
Location: comfortably perched at the top of the bell curve!
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When the EMS comes and saves your ass, do they not send you a bill? Yep. When the Search and Rescue find you lost in the woods, do they not send you a bill? Yep. How is this different? What, is it because the DPRK is "evil"????
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Gives a man a halo, does mead. "Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly." |
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08-04-2009, 01:40 PM | #11 (permalink) |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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no but there are countys and cities where the fire men are all volunteers and paid for by donations, not by city monies.
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
08-04-2009, 01:48 PM | #13 (permalink) |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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Hatzalah works in NYC, and competes with the FDNY for emergency call responses. First one with their foot in the door gets the money.
Chevra Hatzalah Volunteer Ambulance Corps, Inc. and no, my friends who do EMS volunteer do not help someone they know or care about, it's about doing service for the community at large.
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
08-04-2009, 01:59 PM | #14 (permalink) | |
Junkie
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From reading about this service it sounds great but I bet they couldn't do the whole city alone. Nor could they do the whole country. Last edited by Rekna; 08-04-2009 at 02:03 PM.. |
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08-04-2009, 02:03 PM | #15 (permalink) |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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it's volunteer, read the site.
The city will pay the first responder as part of costs. I'm not familiar with all the workings of it, but I know that they do get the award for arriving there first. The ORGANIZATION gets the money, the volunteers are just volunteers. Each ambulance costs about $1M to outfit and there's a cost to maintain. As far as billing the rescued, FDNY will send you to collections if you don't pay, Hatzalah will not.
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
08-04-2009, 02:09 PM | #16 (permalink) |
Junkie
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Good then they provide a great service. Perhaps we should require all of our hospitals and fire services to be all volunteer. That will do wonders for our health care system.... Anyway we are way off topic.
It is great to see that Bill was able to secure their release. |
08-04-2009, 04:15 PM | #17 (permalink) |
Getting it.
Super Moderator
Location: Lion City
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I think this is a great use for ex-presidents. Especially, in this case, as Clinton (Bill) has a good track record in working with North Korea.
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08-05-2009, 07:05 AM | #19 (permalink) |
Ambling Toward the Light
Location: The Early 16th Century
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I have no issue with using Bill for this sort of thing and I am thrilled we got these girls out, however, it seems to me that we played right into Kim's hands. It is what he wanted all along and effectively let him use these two girls as hostages in order to gain high level US engagement with them on their turf. The speed with which these two were released is just evidence of it to me. For a country that supposedly doesn't pay ransom for hostage release it sure seems to me we paid this time. Money isn't the only currency in the world.
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SQL query SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue > 0 Zero rows returned.... |
08-05-2009, 07:26 AM | #20 (permalink) |
Still Free
Location: comfortably perched at the top of the bell curve!
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Actually, it's a pre-pay system called property taxes. I wouldn't expect a logical objection from you, though. In Rekna's utopian world, everything is "free" which gives us all time to dance naked in fields singing kumbaya.
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Gives a man a halo, does mead. "Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly." |
08-05-2009, 07:52 AM | #23 (permalink) | |
Still Free
Location: comfortably perched at the top of the bell curve!
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Quote:
What about the CEOs at the White House lunch? Do they not pay taxes?
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Gives a man a halo, does mead. "Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly." |
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08-06-2009, 11:36 AM | #24 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: France
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They pay taxes to pay for the system which allows them to be on top. They can afford their own lunch.
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08-06-2009, 03:33 PM | #25 (permalink) | |
will always be an Alyson Hanniganite
Location: In the dust of the archives
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Speaking of Jimmy...didn't Bill raise a rucus when Jimmy wanted to go talk with the North Koreans? I seem to remember something along those lines.
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08-06-2009, 06:19 PM | #26 (permalink) |
Tilted Cat Head
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Location: Manhattan, NY
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Bill was at our office today and today was the day I was up in a different office. I missed the circus
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
08-06-2009, 07:05 PM | #27 (permalink) |
Eat your vegetables
Super Moderator
Location: Arabidopsis-ville
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Crazy, Cyn! Were there any remnants of your Peeps Invasion in sight?
__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy |
08-06-2009, 09:27 PM | #28 (permalink) |
cookie
Location: in the backwoods
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America seems to finally be using her ex-presidents in a productive manner.
Seriously- besides some "rogue" missions to Haiti and giving a boost to Habitat for Humanity by Carter, ex-presidents were a completely wasted national resource (except for Saturday Night Live cartoons) until Poppa Bush and Clinton worked together on the Asian Tsunami relief fund. Like it or not, both Bush and Clinton know more and command far more respect than regular diplomats, and they can both do more good for our country (and the rest of the world) than they can chasing tail and doing crossword puzzles, or throwing out 1st pitches or jogging around Highland Park and Memorial. I hope we use them more often. |
08-07-2009, 05:03 AM | #29 (permalink) | |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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Quote:
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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08-07-2009, 05:40 AM | #30 (permalink) | |
Location: Washington DC
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The question is if he would be received as well, given the fact that the respect around the world for GWB was so abysmally low. I recall several polls where former president Putin commanded more respect on the world stage than GWB.
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 08-07-2009 at 05:43 AM.. |
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08-07-2009, 06:50 AM | #31 (permalink) |
Still Free
Location: comfortably perched at the top of the bell curve!
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Of course that's your answer. No one has EVER risen to the top through hard work. They've only gotten there by lying, cheating, and stealing.
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Gives a man a halo, does mead. "Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly." |
08-08-2009, 12:20 PM | #32 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: France
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Don't put words in my mouth, go read the post again. All I said is that the only reason they're on top is that this society allows it. It doesn't mean its bad or good, its just the way it is. I made no judgment on them in my post, I said that they can pay for their own food.
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08-10-2009, 05:52 AM | #33 (permalink) | |
Still Free
Location: comfortably perched at the top of the bell curve!
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Quote:
__________________
Gives a man a halo, does mead. "Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly." |
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08-10-2009, 12:18 PM | #34 (permalink) | ||
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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Quote:
Clinton: I'm secretary of state, not Bill Quote:
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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08-11-2009, 09:22 AM | #36 (permalink) |
Friend
Location: New Mexico
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I'd love to go on that kind of humanitarian mission!
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bill, clinton, jongil, kim, meets |
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