Plan9

Oh, damn... this is the funniest politics thread in a long time.

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

rahl

[/COLOR]

Or, the fact that the best sex they will experience will be with a person they love, get better over time, and happen in a comfortable, yet romantic place. The best thing in a boy's life is not going to be having sex with a drunk stranger in a public toilet with your buddies giggling outside the door.[/QUOTE]

Thats an utterly subjective view on sexual pleasure. Some people have better sex on onenight stands than in committed relationships.

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aceventura3

I would hope the girl gets a say, if the boy is that out of control.

---------- Post added at 09:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:52 PM ----------

[quote=rahl;2712510][/COLOR]


I suppose even a blind squirrel gets a ....oh, pardon the pun... but you seem to be talking about pure chance compared to finding a good partner, then getting 'em trained and conditioned just right... If sex doesn't get better with experience, the couple ain't trying. Good sex takes work. "You can do it, put yo back into it...

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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

Rekna

This seems appropriate:

Cimarron29414

...and if you don't stop being so naive, that is exactly the song your son is going to be singing as he's steaming up the windows to his 2001 Civic. You are going to "think" you got him all trained up regarding sex - and he's going to make you think he's all trained up because it's WAY easier to get away with sex when your parents think "my child is waiting for marriage". Next thing you know, you're a 47-year-old grandfather.

If you want to go that route, I sincerely wish you luck - but you better be a CIA dad because his "little Al Quaeda" is waging jihad on your training and sooner or later some little skirt at the mall is going to get blown up.

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aceventura3

I am already 49.

What my son will know is that there is a difference between good sex, and sexual conquests. His ego won't be so (pardon the pun) small that he will have a need to sleep with every girl with a willing vagina. Ultimately the choice will be his, all I do is give him the benefit of my knowledge and experience.


The irony is that I am so opposite of what you picture. I am not going to spy on him. I am not going to restrict his freedom of choice or anything like that. There is nothing that I am even posting here that I won't share or talk to him about right this minute. I even had to joke with him about getting his own SI Swim Suit Edition, or at least he needs to let me see it first and make sure it is where grandpa can see it when he comes to visit. I teach him to respect his elders.

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

Cimarron29414

Well, all I can say is that I hope that works out the way you have it planned.

__________________
Gives a man a halo, does mead.

"Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

aceventura3

I don't plan my son's life. The choices he makes will be his. I think the confusion here illustrates the confusion some have with Palin's religious beliefs and how her daughter ended up as an unwed mother.

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

rahl

Which prooves how ineffective abstinence only is.

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"Your life is Yours alone...Rise up and live it"

aceventura3

Here is the difference in how I think and how I think you think and it applies to sex and other issues facing children.

I talk to my son about the risks/benefits of social alcohol consumption. My expectation is that he not socially drink alcohol while he is a minor, he understands that and he understands why. I don't hide alcohol in my house. I don't pretend that adults in my house don't drink alcohol. I don't exaggerate the risks. I don't lie about what I did or did not do when I was his age. I don't pretend that he won't be under tremendous peer pressure (I talk to him about how to handle it). I don't get uncomfortable when he wants to ask a question about it or talk about it. I don't censor the movies we watch showing alcohol consumption. I am not going to spy on him and he knows it. And at the end of it all - if he calls me in a drunken stupor from some party, I am going to drop everything I am doing, go pick him up and tell him that I appreciate the fact that he called me.

From your point of view it seems that you think I failed or that I am some kind of hypocrite, etc. - from my point of view I did not fail, I did what I could, and I am happy he will have an opportunity to grow from the experience. I will remind him that we are all imperfect and subject to making poor decisions. As long as he is willing to be held accountable and is willing to grow from his decisions, I will be in his corner - unconditionally. My gut tells me he is going to be o.k. and I wish I could say the same about some of his friends. It appears the die has already been cast.

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

Cimarron29414

I have no doubt that you are a great father. Remember that 95% of the kids in America right now don't have a father that is as engaged with their upbringing as you are with yours. Those 95% need a 350 lb, 75-year-old, white-coated hag to unroll a condom onto a banana. It's the only hope they've got at not becoming kids raising kids. Frankly, I'd put a condom on the tray of every school lunch served in America each day.

Now, if you will excuse me, I need to visit the Titty Board for some mind bleach regarding that school nurse.

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Gives a man a halo, does mead.

"Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

rahl

And I applaud your efforts with your son regarding teen drinking.

That said it is irrelevant to the issue of Abstinence teaching vs. sex ed. My point was that you hold sarah palin as the end all and be all of sexual teaching. And her method clearly didn't work, it reflects how AO as a whole around the country has failed.

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"Your life is Yours alone...Rise up and live it"

aceventura3

You are wrong. At the core of the issue is teens developing the skills needed to make mature and responsible decisions. I do not accept that teens can not act responsibly when it comes to sex. Your disagreement with me make no sense - you act as if a teenage boy, for example, would stick his penis in any girl/woman without any thought and that the only hope is to make sure he has a condom. I think teenage boys can be discriminating and act responsibly if that is the expectation.

I have held my views long before I knew Palin existed. I don't see eye to eye with her on every sexual related issue. We differ big time on the question of marriage and sex based on her religious beliefs. We agree on the fact that children should abstain from sex.

And your approach to this topic is working??? Can you honestly say yes to that? I agree AO based on what has been done has had no impact, but i also think the AO attempts have been half assed. I think in part because of people like you and our School safety czar - whose sage advise to a teen soliciting sex in a bathroom with adults was to say "hope you used a condom". Hell, they should make me the School safety czar - at least I believe I can make a difference.

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

ratbastid

How would you have responded if a teen told you that? All you've managed to do is complain about that response. What would an ace-approved response have been?

rahl

[QUOTE=aceventura3;2713035]You are wrong. At the core of the issue is teens developing the skills needed to make mature and responsible decisions. I do not accept that teens can not act responsibly when it comes to sex. Your disagreement with me make no sense - you act as if a teenage boy, for example, would stick his penis in any girl/woman without any thought and that the only hope is to make sure he has a condom. I think teenage boys can be discriminating and act responsibly if that is the expectation.


Sorry but I'm not wrong. Every study done has shown that teens have sex, despite AO teachings. A teenage boy will pretty much stick his penis in anything that it will fit in. That's what teenage boy's do. It's simple biology, a males sex drive is most active during his teenage years peaking at about 19 years of age and slowly weekening over time after that. Those are the facts, no amount of hoping kids will be able to abstain, or hoping society will change will change that very basic truth....sorry

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aceventura3

I am assuming a bit of hyperbole here - "A teenage boy will pretty much stick his penis in anything that it will fit in."

I disagree about the male sex drive peaking at 19, I don't know who was studied and how they came to that conclusion, but my sex drive did not peak when I was a teen. Perhaps the "facts" you have need a second look.

---------- Post added at 03:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:18 PM ----------

In post 127 I shared the story of Tiffany Wright, a teenage girl, who was reportedly statutorily raped and then murdered reportedly by the man who may have raped her.

In post 133 Dippin asked: "By the way, what the fuck does statutory rape and the rape of that girl have to do with sex ed"

Now you seem not to take the issue seriously.

An "Ace-approved" response would be statutory rape is a crime. The person committing that crime should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. So, as I talk to the victim of a rape crime I would seek as much information as possible in a sympathetic manner. Then I would share what I know about the law and the crime to the child. I would explain that help is available. And before the conversation ended I would let the child know that it was my obligation to report the alleged crime to the proper authorities.

Am I to understand that some among us here would handle this situation differently? If so, how and why? Is it me, or is my impression correct, that some don't take this seriously? I am truly at a loss trying to understand what I think I am picking up here. Perhaps you can help, my questions are not personal, it just seems that our cultural expectations regarding sex and our children is at an all time low.

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

rahl

[QUOTE=aceventura3;2713831]I am assuming a bit of hyperbole here - "A teenage boy will pretty much stick his penis in anything that it will fit in."

I disagree about the male sex drive peaking at 19, I don't know who was studied and how they came to that conclusion, but my sex drive did not peak when I was a teen. Perhaps the "facts" you have need a second look.[COLOR="DarkSlateGray"]

Testosterone peaks in males at age 18. That is a direct corelation to sexual peak. You may be confusing sexual peak with sexual performance. Sex isn't neccesarily better at age 18 it's just when you are bilogically the most ready for sex, beginning with the onset of puberty(early teen years) peaking at (or around) 18 then slowly decreasing over time. That is a biological and medical fact. Look it up in any health journal.

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YaWhateva

I believe what dippin was trying say was "what does statutory rape have to do with this conversation about sexual education in the context of two teenagers having sex before they are 18?" And seriously, what does it?

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aceventura3

No, I am not confusing sexual peak with sexual performance. The correlation with testosterone and sex drive is range based. If your levels are in a normal range, more or less withinin that range has little impact on "sexual peak" or sex drive compared to other factors. There is andropause for men which is similar to menopause for women, men going through this often look to testosterone therapy but to suggest that there is a direct link with peak sex drive and peak testosterone levels is misleading.

Here is some info on the topic:

Male Menopause : Andropause : Discovery Health

---------- Post added at 08:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:22 PM ----------

All I can suggest is that people read and follow the flow of the posts. Often, there is more than one contextual discussion going on.

Statutory rape has nothing to do with sex between two teenagers when it is not statutory rape.

Statutory rape is a sex education issue.

Statutory rape laws exist because, we (society), do not believe children can legally consent to sex. This is directly related to judgment.

Statutory rape laws not being enforced is related to how our society values our children and our attitudes about children engaging in sex.

I think our attitudes need to change (if you have not figured that out). I think our attitudes can change, contrary to what others think, including our Safe School Czar.

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

rahl

[QUOTE=aceventura3;2713968]No, I am not confusing sexual peak with sexual performance. The correlation with testosterone and sex drive is range based. If your levels are in a normal range, more or less withinin that range has little impact on "sexual peak" or sex drive compared to other factors. There is andropause for men which is similar to menopause for women, men going through this often look to testosterone therapy but to suggest that there is a direct link with peak sex drive and peak testosterone levels is misleading.


Ace I don't know what else to tell you, males peak sexually at or around age 18. That is a proven biological fact. If you choose not to believe scientific facts there's nothing else to discuss.

My post and point has nothing to do with male menopause.

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aceventura3

Are you male? Over 18?


Look at it this way: You need fuel to launch a rocket into outer space. So, there is a direct correlation between fuel and getting your rocket launched. However, if you have one gallon of fuel more than what you need to get your rocket off, into outer space, you did not need that extra gallon. If you have one gallon less than what you need to get your rocket off, into outer space, your rocket doesn't get into outer space.

But you know what they say - it ain't rocket science.

You introduced testosterone into the discussion and now you are saying you don't know how it affects men? Another sex education opportunity!

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

rahl

Yes I'm a male over 18.
Rockets have nothing to do with males' sexual peak, biology does. And biology says that the male sexual peak is at or around age 18......case closed. There is no room for argument here, that is a biological fact. There's no room for interpretation.

The reason it is the sexual peak is because it is peak testosterone production, that is why I introduced it. I made no reference to male menopause because it is irrelevant to the topic at hand. But I know how hard it is for you to not talk about irrelevant topics.

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"Your life is Yours alone...Rise up and live it"

aceventura3

I am sorry to hear, sex drive wise, it is down hill for you.


You will never know how humorous it is for me to see the - what do rockets have to do with sex..., type response to my analogy. Let's just say you brought tears to my eyes, thanks.

How dare I question an urban legend? And, then you can find some half-baked study on the internet and then how dare I question that study? Gee, do I have some nerve, asking questions and critical thinking and all.

Perhaps if you put that in all caps, I would accept it. Or how about:

I don't agree.
I don't agree.
I don't agree.

And, that's a fact.

I will put it in plain and simple language. Generally, if you have enough testosterone to have a sex drive, you will have a sex drive. If you have more than enough testosterone other factors will have a much bigger impact on marginal changes to sex drive.

The issue of male menopause, testosterone, and sex drive are related in that...oh, never mind, this is getting boring.

Has Palin said anything of note lately?

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

rahl

Ace you have a singular gift for ignoring medical fact, or just plain old facts in general. It is astounding that you could possibly disagree with absolute scientificly backed evidence. But whatever, you clearly are either refusing to believe in medical fact, or you do believe it but just enjoy arguing.

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aceventura3

I am gifted in many ways.

Occasionally I actually give stuff some real thought. For example the idea that sex drive peaks at 18 and that it is correlated to testosterone as you suggest.

I will share what I thought:

Let's say you have a 40 year old man:

Over weight
Lazy
High cholesterol
High blood pressure
Enlarged prostate
Borderline diabetic
Drinks to much alcohol
Sleeps to little
Drinks too much caffeine
Doesn't get enough fiber
Can't walk up 5 flights of stairs
Can't do 10 push ups
Works to much at a job he hates
Married to a woman he is no longer attracted to
wears underwear that is too tight
believes he will go to hell if he even looks at a woman he thinks is sexy
and believes he peaked at 18.

And you think his sex drive is not what it was when he was 18 because of his testosterone level????

There ain't no study in the world that can control for all of that and give you the "fact" based conclusion you think you came to.

Don't take my word for it, ask a knowledgeable person you trust.

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

rahl

The man you just described would have low testosterone levels because he is so unhealthy. Which means he has a lower sex drive.

Sex drive peaks in males at 18. There is no arguing that fact. No other way to interpret the studies done. You can ignore reality all you want, but that doesn't change the way things are.

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aceventura3

So in your view he can get some testosterone treatments and he will be good to go?


Testosterone levels in a person can be normal or even in the high range and they can lack a sex drive. There are other factors, here is one:

Sex hormone binding globulin: origin, function and...[Ann Clin Biochem. 1990] - PubMed Result

Like I said, don't take my word for it, talk to someone knowledgeable and let's take it from there.

{added} Look at what I found on the "internet" and note how the point was qualified, referencing in my view the "other factors affecting sex drive :

http://www.expressindia.com/latest-n...-study/336380/

And then there is this from the "internet" too, Dr. Hull:

http://www.janethull.com/faqs/testos...eak-in-men.php

So, who to believe 18, 22, 30????

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

rahl

I'm done arguing ace. I don't even remember what the original point was. I think it was about how males are just hornier when they are going through puberty, so trying to suppress thousands of years of evolution by teaching AO is just never going to work.

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loquitur

........ meanwhile, the father of Sarah Palin's grandchild is going to be displaying his equipment on the pages of Playgirl. Just what civilization has been needing, public airing of Levi Johnston's Johnson: