timalkin

..

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inBOIL

I think race is one of a number of factors that led to this outcome. Would this have happened to a white person? Probably not. Did Mr. Gates handle the situation maturely? Probably not. If I had had to force my way into my own home, I wouldn't be surprised if the cops showed up and viewed me with suspicion.

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Jinn

The fact that you think this wasn't racism is far more revealing than Al Sharpton's predictable overreaction.

The mindset that "Racism is dead" or that "We're all equal now." or "Slavery has been gone for a long time now, why are we still paying for it" is far more damaging than the "race card" ever will be.

I'm scared by your very different perception of the same event.

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Charlatan

Take Sharpton out of the equation. He has nothing to do with this incident.

Looking at what happened, and granting the fact that that we likely don't have the whole story, I'd say there can be no doubt that this is case of racial profiling. Sure the cop was just doing his job but arresting Gates for breaking into his own home? I don't care if he was rude to the cop. The cop should have apologized for troubling him and moved on.

"a disorderly conduct charge after police said he "exhibited loud and tumultuous behavior.""

This sounds to me like, I am a cop and you shouldn't get up in my face. I have the power here not you, citizen! To prove it I am going to arrest you.


As for Sharpton... he reminds me of an ambulance chasing lawyer only with greater stakes.

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Fotzlid

http://www.boston.com/news/local/bre...t_redacted.pdf

Here is a link for a PDF file of the police report.

For someone that is supposed to be so smart, it was pretty stupid of him to continue the argument outside the house.

dippin

This was the front door of his own home at noon. I doubt anyone would even call the cops if it was a 58 year old white male in the same situation. But regardless of that, the police did not leave when the he produced photo id with his address on it, and the police officer refused to give his badge and number. And then finally he was arrested, get this, for disorderly conduct in his own home.

Now, none of us were there. But I think that it is quite probable that race played a part here, even if one wants to reduce it strictly to the woman making the call. It also is undeniable that the police went far and beyond "doing their job."

Even if we look at just the police report, and take it as 100% unadulterated truth:
The police officer continued to question someone inside his home even after he had already established that he was the lawful resident, refused to provide identification, lured the professor outside where he went on to arrest him for disorderly conduct within his own property.

The professor might be an asshole, but it is clear that the police officer, even according to his own police report, went completely over the line.

---------- Post added at 09:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:31 PM ----------

Now, as for the part that the report didn't say:
How did the officer go from not being allowed in to being yelled at at the professor's kitchen?

Why, if the police officer had already radioed central that the person was the resident, but was uncooperative, did he insist on getting a photo id with address?

Why did he keep questioning the person he had already established as the resident inside his own home? Without a warrant, isn't this trespassing?

Why did he insist so much on talking to the resident "outside?"

EDIT: and to add: why, once the IDs had been produced and further established him as the resident, did they have to still call harvard pd?

Fotzlid

The professor is a self important asshole and deserved what he got. If the cops didn't investigate, they would have been chastised for not caring that a black persons residence was possibly being broken into.
The professor is the racist.

Xerxys

Well, it's really simple. I see a person (black white green don't care) looking like they're "forcing" a door open I'm calling the cops. If a white kid robs me I'll ask for the ID card of every single fucking white kid in my block till I get him and shoot him in the knee caps, well, maybe not the knee caps.

The cops were doing their jobs here. I don't see racism. Had it been me being stopped and asked for my ID, I'd inquire first and asses whether or not the cop is a "real" cop and produce one. I expect the same from everyone else. A simple ID from the dude forcing the door open would have cured the entire situation. Even if he was robbing the place no one sticks around to rob the place and produce an ID when prompted.

dippin

Last I checked, being an asshole is not a crime. And according to the police report itself, the "investigation" was long over and the cops were still inside the house questioning him.

---------- Post added at 09:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:56 PM ----------

Read the police report. Even the officer acknowledges that he stayed inside and kept questioning the man long after he had established that he was the resident.

Meanwhile, what we don't know is what the police officers themselves first said, first acted, and how they got into the kitchen.

Seems like a lot of people here are more than happy to jump to conclusions without even reading the officer's side, much less waiting for the professor's side.

Punk.of.Ages

Actually, what has gotten out of hand is police profiling, whether it's different races, different sexes, or different cultures.

I'm white, but I have a mohawk. I know how profiling goes. It's bullshit, and it's simply naive to think that shit doesn't happen.

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shakran

Oh, I dunno. I happened to fit the description of some punk that'd been firing a gun into the air in the neighborhood where I was walking a few years back. The cops saw me as a white male and made me put my hands up until they could establish that I wasn't the guy they were looking for.

The neighbor in this case called the cops and said that a black male was breaking into the house. If the cop comes over and finds a black male in the house, it's entirely reasonable for the cop to want to make sure that the particular black male in the house actually belongs there. The cop was trying to protect the man's property. All the guy had to do was to prove that he lived there (easy enough - here's a bill to this address and here's my driver license with the same name on it).

The racism door swings both ways. I've personally interviewed cops that I know damn well are racist as hell, and who WILL pull you over for driving-while-black. So I'm not trying to say that cops are perfectly non-racist at all. And for all we know even this cop is racist as hell. But in this case, his actions are justified and should therefore not be assumed to be racist.



As a thought exercise, let's pretend the cop was also black. What do you think the reaction from Mr. Gates would have been then? How about your reaction? Does that not prove that Mr. Gates, and probably some of you, are assuming that a white guy has racist motivations in his dealings with a black man? Is that not prejudice?

dippin

The issue is that the cop himself admits in his police report that he had already concluded that this was the lawful resident as he continued to question him inside.

And so far this story is based ONLY on the police report. We still don't know what happened between the time the professor refused to let the police officer in to the time the police officer was in his kitchen, but we do know that the police officer was still in and still questioning him even after he had radioed central reporting that the person seen entering the house was the resident.

Manic_Skafe

If I've ever seen bait offered as an invitation to discuss a topic - that original post certainly takes the cake.

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dippin

Here's Gates' lawyer statement
no "race card" here, and whether or not the boston globe decides Al Sharpton is relevant to the story is not really his fault.

Henry Louis Gates Jr. Arrested

Now, regardless of whether or not Gates is a jerk (and he sounds like one), it is clear, even from the police report, that the officer overstepped his boundaries. As much of a jerk Gates might have been, as soon as it was determined that he lived there, the officer should have just left.

dksuddeth

A black man appearing to break in to a home in what looks to be like a well to do neighborhood, so a neighbor calls the cops. why doesn't this neighbor who called the cops know who their neighbors are?

this should never have happened in the first place. what a sad society we've become when people can't even bother to get to know who their neighbors are.

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Fotzlid

lol
What do you think "disorderly conduct" means?


As an aside, Cambridge is well know to be a very liberal city in a liberal state.

dippin

disorderly conduct by definition cannot happen inside one's own home, and the definition was then stretched to make the guy's porch a public place.

And what does being a liberal city in a liberal state have to do with anything? Are liberal cities less likely to be racist?
Last I checked, the last fight over segregated buses and the such took place in Boston...

Rekna

We have a winner! Get to know your neighbors!

shakran

No, it can. If you're disturbing the peace, that's disorderly conduct. If I go stand on my porch and start shouting at the top of my lungs, and the cops tell me to stop and I don't, that's disorderly conduct.

Of course, assuming the cop really had no reason to be there, he's guilty of disorderly conduct too

That said, if the police report is accurate, then Gates was being a tool. If the lawyer's report is accurate, then Gates was being a tool. We have to wait until witnesses step forward and tell us whether Gates was yelling or not. Until then, to assume the cop is racist is jumping the gun.

Fotzlid

Outside is outside. Doesn't matter if its the porch or the edge of the property. Gates should never have continued with his rant once outside. He should have just closed the door, then made his phone calls or write his letters to complain about the cops actions. Instead, he thought he could brow-beat a white cop because he is black and get away with it. If it was a black cop or if Gates was white, it would be a non-story.

As far as laws/ordinances/whatever against racism, yes. Cambridge is pretty well known for its tolerance towards the minority, be it race, religion or whatever.

The bus thing was the desegregation of the schools, when the city mandated that some black kids had to go to white schools and vice versa.

loquitur

See, it might not have started as a race things but possibly became one. I don't have a problem with a cop inquiring when it looks like someone is breaking into a house - race shouldn't have anything to do with that. But once Gates showed it was his house, the cop should have tipped his hat, said "good day, sir," and been on his way. But that cop clearly has some ego issues, as lots of cops do. These are people who are given some power and some of them like to use it every now and again just to make themselves feel better, so if someone disses them, they get to use their power. That happens no matter what the race of the citizen is. But it's certainly possible - heck, more than just possible - that this cop has race issues, too - that he'd take much less guff from a black guy than from a white guy, and especially an uppity black guy with a fancy Harvard ID. That strikes me as a plausible explanation of why the cop acted the way he did once Gates showed it was his home.

But of course, this is speculation. We don't know what was in the cop's head or in Gates's head.

Cynthetiq

As a person who has had a disorderly conduct in my own home it sure can and does happen. And I live in a blue state!

Disorderly conduct is not just for public drunkenness anymore

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dksuddeth

depending on the state you reside in, this could be correct. Disorderly conduct is used as a catch all charge, kind of like an article 134 in the military code. disturbing the peace is also a bit different.

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roachboy

what manic skafe said.

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Fotzlid

Cynthetiq

"Ya, I’ll speak with your mama outside"

I can't believe such an educated man would say such a thing, not that it's impossible, but for some reason I imagine a Havard educated man to not utter such sound bites.

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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

timalkin

..

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Trinity: "What do you need?"

Neo: "Guns. Lots of guns."

-The Matrix

Plan9

... are you suggesting that those in the education field are incapable of working "real jobs?" That a higher education career is a farce?

Tell me... what is a real job? Plumber? Military? Construction worker? Lumberjack? Pirate? Ninja?

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Whatever you can carry.

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Cynthetiq

interesting that I can no longer access the Boston Globe PDF

Gates Incident Report Redacted

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Fotzlid

Here comes Step 3: Lawsuit

Cynthetiq

Step 4: Profit.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Willravel

You have no idea how much you've just insulted yourself. You should report yourself for personally attacking yourself so it doesn't happen again.

Fotzlid

You forgot the mandatory cultural sensitivity training for the entire department.
Then the book deal/profit.

dippin

If you read the articles that have already been posted here, it was already said that yes, a black officer was present. In fact, it was the black officer who uncuffed his hands from the back and cuffed him again, with his hands in front, as he would not be able to use his cane otherwise. That officer was not the one inside the home.

As far as the real job jab, last I checked there were thousands of people willing to pay several thousand dollars to go there, so I don't see what is "unreal" about his job.

---------- Post added at 10:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:24 PM ----------

As someone mentioned, this varies from state to state. Massachusetts specifically has a case that defines it:

Commonwealth v. Mulvey

so, again, and specifically to MA, disorderly conduct can only take place in an area accessible to the public. The police officer was surely aware of this, and in a clever attempt to arrest Gates, came up with a lame excuse (the acoustics in the kitchen) to ask Gates to step outside, where he proceeded to arrest him in his porch, which certainly is a stretch of the law, since the officer asked him to go there.

roachboy

i know henry louis gates.
i wouldn't call us pals, but i know him.
he used to tell me i looked like jesus.

what surprises me about this is that it is getting the kind of attention it is getting.
once it kept into the triviastream that passes for news, i figured that the result would be anything goes in terms of interpretation.
this thread has confirmed that.

this seems like the kind of thing that could happen to almost anybody.
the difference between almost anybody and skip gates is that he is who he is.
because he is who he is, you are reading about this relatively banal event and feel compelled to say stuff.
but it really is banal.
i don't know why this thread exists. i don't know why this is worth the time to comment on. i don't know why this is a news story.

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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Ourcrazymodern?

...I don't know why you bothered saying that.

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roachboy

because of how curious it is watching this happen with respect to someone you kinda know.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Baraka_Guru

I've always found the concept of the "race card" fascinating. What is it? It's how disgruntled white people objectify a non-white's entering into race politics. The cool thing about objectifying something intangible is that it makes it easier to nullify it and file it away somewhere without having to engage it directly. You know, with logic....maybe counterarguments, if not some kind of problem-solving or information-gathering procedure.

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SirSeymour

Cop ego driven? Possible. Race driven? Also possible.

Here is another theory...asshole driven. The cops show up to a reported B&E. There is a bit of stress there to begin with because they don't know for sure what is going on and if what was reported is really what was going on then there is the possibility of a very bad response when they get there. Instead, they find a home owner who is immediately offended at being questioned, uncooperative and apparently determined to make this incident about race regardless of what is going on.

Had the professor reacted better this whole thing would have been different. All he needed to do was open the door and produce some ID. My guess is that the officer would have then said thanks and gone about his business.

But could the good professor, a supposedly educated man, do that? Apparently not. He had to be an asshole to an already stressed guy and drag out what could have been a quick encounter. Once that happened, my guess is the cop may have wanted to mess with him a bit and pushed the interview a bit far. Was the cop right to do it? Absolutely not. But the professor needs to own up to his part in this farce and realize that cops are people with tough jobs. Bating them in a bad situation is not a good idea. Even the best of men have bad days.

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SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue > 0
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genuinegirly

I'd be pretty pissed, too if I were bothered by the police after returning from a long and greuling trip.
They both had bad days...

But the cop is paid a pretty penny to not have those bad days.

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