FuglyStick

Even if you're in the right, it's best not to respond to law enforcement with insolence. That's just common sense.

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biznatch

Um, yeah, but as soon as the professor did step out of the house, he got arrested.
There's a reason why some people are scared by the police. They can make your life suck, and it's not their job to make your life suck.

I don't see why everyone in this thread is jumping to "the professor is racist," or "the cop is racist."
The call to the police was maybe made out of racial profiling, and I think it's normal Gates got angry, and I think he was within his rights to stay right where the fuck he lives, and shown them ID.
I'm not sure that the cops did anything to defuse the situation, they did not need to go inside, they didn't need to stick around for so long. I agree with Will.
I don't get where you people get your conclusion that the prof was racist.

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shakran

And that's where we need to wait and see what witnesses say. If as the cops claim he was screaming and shouting at them, then he was breaking the law.


And we're saying the prof is racist because he's assuming the cop is racist. I'm a white guy, and I've had white cops try to violate my civil rights any number of times. Sometimes the cop isn't racist. Sometimes the cop is an equal-opportunity asshole. The professor has NO idea which is true, even if he was completely accurate about the chain of events (I was calm, polite, and the bastard arrested me anyway!).

Toaster126

Being an asshole to a cop isn't illegal. It's just stupid to piss off someone that can negatively effect your life so much with actions that don't have as much overview or are taken at their word.

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dippin

I think that the discussion of the motivation of the cop loses sight that we are still talking about the motivation as to why he overstepped his boundaries.

In any case, as to the discussion of whether the cop was racist or not, I don't know, and neither do any of you calling the professor racist.

But there is an easy experiment that can help us if we really want to determine that:

The history of the Cambridge police is a matter of public record, so we can check how many times they've been accused of racial profiling and so on. From what I gather, this is far from the first time they've been accused of such.

Similarly, the professor we are talking about is a public figure who has published extensively and made quite a few documentaries on the subject of race. If he has a history of assuming racism on part of others, of wrongly accusing others of racism, it should be easy enough to establish. Can anyone point to such an occasion?

And I find the argument of "Im white, police are assholes to me too" utterly unpersuasive. And the statistics and the anecdotal information are out there to show that yes, there is a substantial difference in how the police treat people of either race.

---------- Post added at 09:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:51 AM ----------

Which law, specifically? And this is not to mention the fact that he was inside his home, and was asked outside by the cop.

mixedmedia

Funny how whenever you read the phrase 'race card' you know right where a person is going with it.
My question about this situation is, what about it is so earth-shattering that it makes a person say 'this race card shit is out of hand'?
Far as I can tell, only people who love to talk about 'race cards.'

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

biznatch

As soon as somebody feels like race might have had a part in the way they were treated, others will say "it's the race card."

I think if I were in Gates' situation, I might have been angry at the (rather likely) possibility that my skin color would have anything to do with it.
I don't get it when people say that we should always be courteous to cops, even when they're pushing the boundaries. Yes, we might be stupid for questioning a police officer's motives, since he can bring hell into our lives, but at the same time, the cop shouldn't have the power to do whatever the fuck they want. A lot of times, if they get even a little backtalk from a suspect, they'll make a point to make his/her treatment a lot worse, stick around more, ask more unnecessary questions.

If its the cops' right to be a dick, it should be ours too.

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Jinn

What are you guys talking about? Racism is clearly a thing of the past.

Anyone claiming racism nowadays is pulling the race card, don't you know?

Conservative Activist Forwards Racist Pic Showing Obama As Witch Doctor | TPMMuckraker

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"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

timalkin

..

__________________
Trinity: "What do you need?"

Neo: "Guns. Lots of guns."

-The Matrix

Zenturian

You are correct. I have been searched for no reason, stopped at airports for no reason. Was I wrong in just letting the cops do their search and then let me go, or should I have just screamed and made an incident of the whole thing? Who knows. The path of least resistance worked out for me. But then, I have nothing to hide. This proffessor could have just showed a driver's license. He could have said, " Boy, I know how this must look, but this is my house. Oh, here is my id." And the cops would have looked about for a nano second more, and carried on. But then, we wouldn't know this guy's name now, would we? When your whole life is based on how the black man is being screwed over, your mind set is slanted or should I said, prejudiced towards a bias that permeates everything.

Example. I was a manager at a GNC. The policy there is every person gets a personal greeting. I was working with a new cashier, when she didn't great a customer. Fearing this could be the secret shopper, I walked up to them to give them the personal greeting. The couple, black, shouted at me. " We WERE going to spend 50 dollars in this store, but since you are a racist who thinks all blacks are theives and ahve to follow us around wil, and all our friends, will not spend a dime in this racist store. ( I cleaned up what they really said).

Who is the racist here? They didn't even want to hear an explaination. IN their mind the ONLY reason was racism. Couldn't possibly be a store policy or fear of my paycheck being cut down, no racisim. Some people have been conditioned and their minds are closed. I think this proffessor is one of the conditioned if not the conditioners.

---------- Post added at 07:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:01 PM ----------

Quoted for truth!

roachboy

the notion of "the race card" is kinda interesting. if you remember, it entered masscult through johnny cochoran's closing arguments at the o.j. simpson trial, which was a kind of amazing bit of televised theater. if memory serves, he used it as a way of insinuating exactly the opposite of what it's come to mean--it was a device he used to undermine a guilty verdict by going after the motives of those who chose to see simpson as guilty. at stake really was the jury and this whole presumption of innocence/beyond a shadow of a doubt business (which is itself kinda odd if you really think about it: absolute certainty? what the fuck is that?) anyway...somehow it migrated into conservative ideology. out there, it turned into a cheap-and-facile device the effect of which is to treat racism in the united states as if it were some arbitrary factor introduced into an otherwise normal and fun game by Bad People. so it trivializes the matter. it also relativizes positions--if one "plays the race card" one is making a move. the game could have proceeded without it: there is nothing necessary in it. nothing follows from reality, from history---o no. it is a move in a game.

it is of a piece with the bigger conservative-specific fiction that the united states has somehow managed to entirely shed its history and the effects of that history in one Magical Moment, kinda like that Zero Hour that was supposed to have happened sometime in the early summer of 1945 at which point all those bad fascists suddenly went away and the Modern Post-War nation-state emerged in all its Heroic and Pure Grandeur blah blah blah---but like the stunde null, the precise location and timing of which remains of course always a Mystery as most things that never happened seem to do.

something that big happening...you'd think people would notice. like they'd wake up that day, whenever it was, and feel differently. or there's be dancing in the streets maybe and/or fireworks a week later and you'd be able to look back because obviously the press would have noticed that Event, the one that enabled the united states to magically shed it's history and all the effects of that history.

you'd think.

anyway stupid premises lead to stupid arguments and so it is in this thread. blah blah blah the persecuting Other who plays the "Race Card" into an otherwise fun and exciting game in which everyone is all kumbaya equal four square and regular and all that. blah blah blah the cops were right. blah blah blah i don't like academics.

maybe the more interesting question: when exactly *did* this Magical Moment when the entirety of american history ceased to matter happen? someone shook the etch-a-sketch....why didn't we notice? did anyone notice? why doesn't anyone tell the rest of us about such things? maybe it's a conservative secret, something that comes along with the clown nose and the decoder ring when you join the club.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

biznatch

"The Messiah"?

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mixedmedia

It's a thing. A very revealing thing.
Oh my, oh yes...kind of like Morse code for political forums, it seems.

---------- Post added at 07:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:15 PM ----------

Yes, really.
Or maybe this requires too much thought and too little catchphrases.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Willravel

It's conservativise for "I want to say 'President Obama' but I don't want to do so without making a personal attack against him and anyone that might have voted for him." It would be the equivalent of me calling Senator McCain "that old piece of crap that some idiots voted for". Of course, I'd never say that seriously, while I disagree with Senator McCain politically, I don't take that disagreement personally.

Charlatan

Axe to grind much?

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- Old Man Luedecke

biznatch

I know, I get it, I was just trying to express my disbelief at somebody using such a moniker and still wanting to be taken seriously.
Nobody referred to Bush as some stupid name, Bush was quite sufficient.

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shakran

No, the more ignorant of liberals called him Shrub, and were rightfully chastised for it.

Back to the thread, no, being an asshole to a cop is not illegal. Shouting in a manner to disturb or annoy others in the neighborhood is. It's called disturbing the peace, which is often lumped into the disorderly conduct crime.

And while being an asshole to a cop is not illegal, it's a very good way to ensure that they will look for any reason, legit or not, to fuck with you. Again, that doesn't mean they're racist, it just means they feel they should have the right not to have people be assholes to them. And whether they're right or not, if you don't want to end up in cuffs, you don't act like an asshole to a cop.

ring

I am surprised,
and sadly not surprised,
that the term 'uncle tom', has been used in this thread.

My anecdotal experience with hearing the term race card:
I have only heard that term mouthed, by the most racist people,
that are not of color. ( any color..it seems to be a predominately, lilly white term)

Okay, one time this really handsome bookie and I talked
about race cards, but that was a horse thing.


Ms. Mixed, thanks for your post,
and to all the others as well,
that can see clearly...and have been able to keep a civil tongue.

and now for an entertaining and instructive video for our
intermission pleasure.


To the OP....I wasn't there. I know not, the intentions of either party.

dksuddeth

gee, what to do when the cop is the instigator.........shall we ever know?

__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

Derwood

per the police report, Gates was the instigator....of course the cop in question WROTE the report....

Jinn

This is my new favorite rb post. Sometimes your unique writing style pays off in dividends, and it absolutely did here. Well said.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

Ananas

If the roles were reversed, would the outcry, the extraordinary efforts at reasoning and excusing behavior that tiptoes the line of illegality, the knee-jerk raising of the "race-card" flag be at the same level? I suspect not - unless there has been an ingrained history of persecution, unequal treatment under law, and race-based crimes against whites by blacks. Let's do the time warp again.

Why should people of color have to tread more lightly around white public servants?

The President of the United States should address issues such as these - not because he shares ancestry in both the ethnicities involved here - but because it's incidents like these that plague this country and prevent us from moving forward. His job is to lead this country, and like others before him, he knows that silence is not the best response.

Roachboy- that was one fantastic post.

__________________
it's gritty

SirSeymour

If the roles had been reversed no one would have even heard about this incident. Hell, I doubt it would have made the news in Cambridge, much less going national.

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SQL query
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue > 0
Zero rows returned....

Cynthetiq

I don't think that the POTUS should be addressing such issues. Having had more layoffs in our company, and seeing that while the DOW is going up, the prices of goods and services increasing, while my pay stays flat.... that's something he should be addressing.

I just watched yet another news conference regarding this topic where he's addressing it yet again, asking if anyone has contacts with the press to get off the professor's lawn. While it's said in jest, sorry, I don't see it as important in comparison to more bank failures just 4 more last week bringing the total to 54 for 2009.

But like people have said about racism, "if we don't talk about it maybe it will just go away" maybe that will work with our economy too.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Cynthetiq

Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com - Obama calls Cambridge officer

and this is why I find that he's a fair and eloquent speaker now that I've gotten the opportunity to see the whole press conference.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Zeraph

OP: I wasn't there so I can't say for sure, but generally I agree. It sounded like the police officers had real suspicion. Why in the world would you refuse to come out and talk to the police if your home was just robbed? Usually only criminals act that way, so why should the police act differently? He matched the description, and they found him acting suspicious at the scene of the crime...it sounds like he has a stick up his ass and acted that way on purpose just to create the scandal.

Only they know for sure though.

Ourcrazymodern?

When you express your opinion, you have to consider your audience. Police are trained to bristle when you question their authority, whether you question their rightness, or not.

__________________
BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

Ananas

CynthetiqThe President should address this issue. It's as important as the layoff, DOW average, health care, etc. because the effects of such actions are just as far-reaching. The "color line" has divided our nation since its inception, and the fact that it continues to be a divisive issue into the 21st century is indicative of the need for continued vigilance - and resolution.

Who else but the leader of the Nation should address racial issues? This is a golden opportunity for US citizens to see how a man of mixed heritage handles such a volatile problem. Other Presidents before him have addressed racial issues during times of national crisis, too (LBJ-VietNam, Kennedy-Cuban Missile Crisis, and so on). The problem is that America cannot get over its racial divisiveness, so it will never fade away even during other more pressing problems.

As for: I'd already answered: Unfortunately, I cannot get the video you referenced to load and play, so I cannot discuss that.

---------- Post added at 07:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:27 PM ----------

So, black cops in a town with a history of white racial profiling, abuse of white citizens, Driving-while-white cases, inbred prejudice, unequal application of law and justice, the whole nine yards, receive a call from a "concerned citizen" about a portly white guy with a cane shouldering a door....you work out the same scenario, and then honestly ask yourself if the incident would not have made news.

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Xerxys

NO!! No Goddammit!! The POTUS should stick his head in my W2 and remedy it. I don't give a shit about some over-sensationalized non-issue distracting people from actually doing what they were hired to do.

I agree. The terms cannot posibly be "reversed" per se because of the history involved. But still, to say that were tiptoe-ing around officers is a load of bull. I want a black man to yell the exact same way Gates did to a black police officer. Not only will it be funny but he will be thrown in the slammer so hard I'll cum a little.

Cynthetiq

I'm sorry but I respectfully and vehemently fucking disagree.

Is the media focusing anything on the Chinese situation with the demonstrations of the where the Chinese government has killed 150 people? Are we discussing it here? No the thread here has garnered little if no attention http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/tilted-...chiy-riot.html. Or how about the Chinese in California who were systemically prejudiced against, with the California government considering a formal apology.

Sorry, WTF is that? The California economy and budget hadn't been completed at the end of June. On June 25, they are considering IOUs, and yet a RACIAL issue is more important?

What about the rest of the races of the nation, since this seems to be a Black/White issue then you're neglecting all the Hispanics, Asians, Eastern Europeans (just because they are white doesn't mean they aren't discriminated against), I could go on and on.

I'm sorry, as a fiscally conservative person, NOTHING is more important than keeping the roof over your head, food on your table, and the ability to care for yourself for any fiduciary requirement.

In this case, we're talking healthcare and the DISTRACTION that this is causing on a national level. I'm fine with the press coverage that has happened AFTER the initial healthcare press coverage on Wednesday night. I find it unacceptable that it was interjected into that moment when the ever important healthcare issue was on the table being discussed. In that moment I was VERY offended.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

dksuddeth

If the president wants to address racial divides and issues in America, fine, but doing it in the way he did, by interjecting his opinion in a states law enforcement incident, is most definitely not the vehicle to do it in.

__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

pan6467

I open with this because it is to me the best show of what is going on.


My God people, just skimming over this I see people blaming the neighbor for not knowing his/her neighbors... not many people really do anymore especially if working different shifts. Plus in the dark seeing 2 men breaking into a home where not only that home but others in the area had recently been broken into, sounds to me like the neighbor did the right thing.

I see people blaming the police, hmmmm a man comes out of his home and is beligerent to the police that came and checked on a legitimate call trying to protect the man's property. I for one would have shown gratitude to the police for their concern and the duty for which my tax dollars pay. I wouldn't go outside my home to argue with them creating more of a disturbance UNLESS I wanted arrested for some reason.

I see people blaming the president.... I for one can understand this it is not even a state issue but a local issue and for the president of the US to make any comment not knowing the specifics is not presidential and to make the comments he did AS a sitting president is far more divisive and inflammatory than just stepping back and saying he doesn't know the facts and that it is a local issue that he has faith the local officials can handle. By his comments he allowed it to become a national issue that is divisive, taking attention away from more pressing national issues...... hmmmmm...... acted stupidly for answering a police call on a break in???? He answer by first disclaiming he was friends with professor Gates.

The only one to blame in all of this is Professor Gates. Whether he acted because he felt mistreated, wanted to be arrested, was intoxicated or was just human and made a misjudgment. Maybe the police officer got tired of being yelled at for doing his job and being treated in a nasty way.... he's human and maybe he made a call based from emotion because this guy wouldn't just shut up. He (professor Gates) raised the racial question.

I have been belligerent with cops, I have seen others of ALL races and sexes be belligerent to officers of ALL races and sexes and I can honestly say it takes a lot for an officer to arrest someone.

I truly see that this is not about race but about people who have personal agendas to push and are and will be using this to push them through..... and that may include professor Gates himself and his personal friend the president.

I defer to Bill Cosby's comments and I agree with the first part, the second part, I think he makes excuses for the president, but is trying to show respect.

Bill Cosby reacts to Gates incident

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

dippin

I love how everyone is SURE of what happened there and is SURE that the professor is to blame for everything based strictly on what the cop said. It is ironic to say the least that in a situation where a white man and a black man have differing accounts of what happened, everyone is SURE there was no racism involved because.... the white man said so! The circularity is astounding.

Nevermind that by the cops' own account he overstepped his boundaries and trampled on some of the professors constitutional rights. I guess trespassing and luring the professor outside with the intent of arresting him are apparently secondary to the mere possibility that the professor might have falsely accused someone of racism. Oh, and nevermind that the police officer and the police union are not releasing the video from the dashboard cams of the 3 cars that were there. After all, why would we want to see that? How dare we question the officer's account of events!

Cynthetiq

no, I'm 100% sure and positive that the POTUS should not be weighing in on a LOCAL event.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Willravel

Not knowing ≠ not recognizing. I can understand not knowing everyone living within clear viewing distance of your house, people can live somewhat sheltered lives these days, but not recognizing them? Not recognizing a telltale sign like a cane?

Do you recognize your neighbors?

FuglyStick

Truth.

__________________
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dippin

Whatever Obama says, whatever Bill Cosby says, whatever Al Sharpton says is beside the point entirely...

Willravel

Your home is safe, but is it safe from black intellectuals?

Cynthetiq

I disagree. Bill is a character and respected black man by all communities and Al Sharpton has is followers and his agenda. They are fair to be on TV and be talking heads all they want on any such agenda or issue. Whatever they speak about is up to the viewer to decide if they are talking out of their ass or are providing any kind of insight.

President Obama is not supposed to delve into local issues that have no impact on the nation as a whole.

People do not disassociate Mr. Obama's personal opinion and President Obama's opinion or position.

This is why President Obama is now backpedaling from his comment about how "stupidly" it was handled.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

dippin

but none of that changes whatever happened at the scene and how people are reacting to it.