07-10-2009, 11:59 AM | #1 (permalink) | |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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California: What do you think about the current economic crisis there?
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As I said in a recent blog entry, one cannot run any business, household, or government for very long when the spending exceeds the revenue. It's a simple math formula at it's heart but gets quite complex as you add the different services and revenue streams, but ultimately the outgo cannot exceed the income in any sustainable model. The cuts in taxes or revenue streams made great headlines, but they don't balance the budget or the books. I was surprised to consider the idea of term limits making it worse, but I agree as it takes time to understand the politics, process and budget, but the time you really grasp it, your term is over. I have a long held belief that term limits are best handled by the voting booth. I remember Prop 13 being passed. I remember the services that were cut, one of which was public government displays of fireworks for the 4th of July. The above article I found via the OpEd in the LATimes today. Does anyone else have any insight or comment?
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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07-10-2009, 12:14 PM | #2 (permalink) |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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What do I think about the current economic crisis in California? We overspent. There's not a lot of insight necessary. Politicians enjoyed the strong increase in tax revenue in the late 90s and early 2000s too much, spending more than even the new taxes could cover and not saving for the proverbial rainy day. It's pouring, and we're in a pickle.
The best way to fix this would be to carefully dial back spending after reviewing what money is going where and how efficiently that money is being spent (and legalizing and taxing marijuana couldn't hurt). Unfortunately, California Democrats are against spending cuts completely and California Republicans want California to basically be without a state government, meaning they can't come to a compromise. Because those bumbling fools can't figure out that we can balance the budget if both sides compromise a little, people are now getting IOUs instead of government checks. All of that being said, I've taken a lot of flack for being a Californian lately and I think it's because people don't really understand that what happens in California generally reflects what's happening to the rest of the country. California has relatively less debt than the federal government, and several other states (New York, Massachusetts, Illinois and New Jersey) are well on their way to going bust right behind us. |
07-10-2009, 02:12 PM | #3 (permalink) |
Alien Anthropologist
Location: Between Boredom and Nirvana
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My husband and I moved away from Napa, California 3 years ago because we saw what was "coming down" around us in California and we knew it was only going to get worse.
It has. When we lived there, we loved the natural beauty around us in Marin & Napa Counties & cool insightful people, but knew that the economic bubble was ready to burst. Furthermore, who in their right mind wants to purchase over-valued real estate on top of 4+ major Fault Lines? No thanks. Plus, we became sick and tired of our tax dollars paying for all the illegal alien's babies, welfare families and uneffective healthcare in general. We returned to Ohio (for various family reasons) and at least the cost of living is far more realistic and affordable. Everything is less expensive here & I'm investing in land at this time. So far I think my plans will reward me in the end.
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"I need compassion, understanding and chocolate." - NJB Last edited by hunnychile; 07-10-2009 at 02:19 PM.. |
07-10-2009, 05:35 PM | #4 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: Fort Worth, TX
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The population was given the direct vote over everything. They voted to lower taxes at every turn and increase spending at every turn. I always liked the Texas Constitution in which the budget for 2 years is set, and is not allowed to go into deficit outside of war. In my opinion, we need a Federal mandate to follow up with the bipartisan "pay-as-you-go" policy (warfare and emergency situations exempting) which unfortunately Bush and Obama both choose to ignore.
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"Smite the rocks with the rod of knowledge, and fountains of unstinted wealth will gush forth." - Ashbel Smith as he laid the first cornerstone of the University of Texas |
07-10-2009, 05:58 PM | #5 (permalink) |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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You're making the mistake that liberals are often accused of: you're assuming the federal government can succeed in matters that states fail in. Such a federal mandate might be smart, but it would never pass simply because there are too many fiscal conservatives and too many people that stand to profit from the state going deeper into debt.
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07-10-2009, 06:24 PM | #6 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." |
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07-10-2009, 06:33 PM | #7 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Fort Worth, TX
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"Smite the rocks with the rod of knowledge, and fountains of unstinted wealth will gush forth." - Ashbel Smith as he laid the first cornerstone of the University of Texas |
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07-10-2009, 06:49 PM | #8 (permalink) | |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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Most fiscal conservatives are also strong proponents of state sovereignty. The federal government gaining any control over the state's budgets would be opposed by most conservatives without a second thought. Frankly, I'm surprised you even mentioned it. |
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07-10-2009, 07:25 PM | #9 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: Fort Worth, TX
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I'm not saying the Federal Government should inject in the State Budget. I think all 3 governments, federal/state/local, should be free to decide their own fiscal futures. I just also think it's very dumb to allow any of these go into the red year after year for no reason other than wanting everything and never paying for it beyond IOU's.
Severe emergencies or war are the only reasons to go into debt. And they should be repaid asap to allow a strong economy and never have to fear the purse-strings of those who buy your debt.
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"Smite the rocks with the rod of knowledge, and fountains of unstinted wealth will gush forth." - Ashbel Smith as he laid the first cornerstone of the University of Texas |
07-11-2009, 10:29 AM | #11 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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I am one of the 2.5 million who moved out of California between 2005 and 2007, I think about 1.5 moved in, but still resulting in a net loss not including the birthrate and who knows how many illegals. The people who moved out of California tended to be small/medium sized business owners with their businesses and middle class jobs. The state has been moving in the direction of being two classes, the filthy rich and the really poor, with a diminishing middle class. The answer to reversing this trend is simple - stop treating business like the enemy.
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
07-11-2009, 04:10 PM | #13 (permalink) | |
Cunning Runt
Location: Taking a mulligan
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When every successful person/company has left California, maybe it will occur to someone that you can't save every shipwreck victim by sinking all of the lifeboats. You especially can't save the ones who think it's their right to have someone else swim some waterwings out to them, and hold their heads above water until they feel like swimming for themselves.
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"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcher |
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07-11-2009, 04:13 PM | #14 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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California neighbors one state with no state income tax. California neighbors another state were the typical workers compensation premium for some classifications is/was 50% to 75% less. Just to formulate an entity in California to do business, like an LLC or a corporation costs close to $1,000 in fees/taxes even if the entity had no profits. Compare that to Nevada. The minimum wage is higher in California than in any other state. The income tax rate is higher than in most states. Regulatory standards are harder to comply with. Doing business in California meant that it is not a question of if you are going to be sued, but when. The business owner is treated like shit in unemployment compensation appeals, I never talked to a business owner who won a hearing. Those points don't even touch on the costs to do business in the state, like higher gas prices, electricity, rents, time lost in traffic, poorly prepared to work employees, and a few other things.
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
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07-11-2009, 05:34 PM | #15 (permalink) | ||||
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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You want us to legalize gambling? I don't think most Californians would be okay with that.
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Overall, yes, but mostly that's because we tax the rich more than other states. And “income taxes aren’t driving the highest income households” from the state. Can you elaborate on this one? Quote:
You're assuming that these rulings are all unfair simply because they go against your economic principles. |
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07-11-2009, 05:55 PM | #16 (permalink) | |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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Will, they had been alienating business via higher taxation and regulation.
Are you telling me that Prop 65 is not alienating business and at the same time scaring consumers? I'm working on a small business now, and if I get to pick between the two states, I'm picking Nevada. Between the tax savings and the savings in labor costs, benefits etc. it's much better. Quote:
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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07-11-2009, 07:39 PM | #17 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Fort Worth, TX
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Cost of living was a $9k/year difference. No Income Tax in Texas, 2nd highest in nation for Illinois Cost of goods increased significantly on all products as a result of higher CoL. Same for Cali. A Micro-Test would be compare El Centro Cali (used to live there) to San Diego. Don't just factor rent/mortgage, but look at cost of goods. It's very significant between the two, much like states bordering Cali are even more so.
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"Smite the rocks with the rod of knowledge, and fountains of unstinted wealth will gush forth." - Ashbel Smith as he laid the first cornerstone of the University of Texas |
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07-11-2009, 07:50 PM | #18 (permalink) |
Eccentric insomniac
Location: North Carolina
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It has to do with paying for things they cannot afford.
When I get hit with unexpected expenses, lose my job (though it hasn't happenned recently), etc. I stop spending so much money. Instead I spend my money on conserving what I already own, basic necessities, and on finding a new job. The same principle *Should* apply to California and the country as a whole. ---------- Post added at 11:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:50 PM ---------- It isn't like this is a sudden, over night surprise. California has been going downhill because their leadership lacks the backbone to stand up against the blathering masses who have realized they can vote for anything they want...for a while.
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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill "All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence |
07-12-2009, 09:40 AM | #19 (permalink) | |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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After taking up the ass in California, small business owners that actually do business with the State, are bending over yet again.
Times are already lean and it used to be said, you can count on government to commit to it's debts always. Doesn't seem like it that much. Waiting from July until October is enough to kill any small business. Quote:
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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07-12-2009, 10:23 AM | #20 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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Even a landlord, a person who rents apartments or homes is subject to posting Prop 65 notices or could be in violation of the law. Of the list of "chemicals" on the list, you could not find many, if any, commercial activities not subject to Prop 65. Even to this day, I would bet the vast majority do not even know they have an obligation or are at risk of a lawsuit. ---------- Post added at 06:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:14 PM ---------- Work comp. fraud, and the rules in the state that are unfairly favorable to those who want to exploit the system. And let's not forget the lawyers. They take about 1/3 of a settlement, even in cases were they add no value. there are also rings of lawyers, clinics, doctors, vocational rehab programs, etc, that scam, not only insurance companies, but every honest person in the state pays a cost for it.
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
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07-12-2009, 10:38 AM | #21 (permalink) | |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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07-12-2009, 10:58 AM | #22 (permalink) | ||
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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Here's an LATimes Article from 2000 that describes the issues from the previous decade. If anything, it has not been fixed in the great state of California. Quote:
__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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07-12-2009, 01:31 PM | #23 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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In 2004 there was more Work comp reform, but for many it was too little too late. I don't follow the current conditions.
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." Last edited by aceventura3; 07-12-2009 at 01:33 PM.. |
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07-21-2009, 03:59 PM | #24 (permalink) |
Upright
Location: Western New York, soon to be fifty first state!!!
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look at it like this- Let's say that every time you leave your house and are gone, some unknown stranger sneaks into your house. While you are out this douchebag that sneaks through a hole in your fence and in your back door eats all your food everyday, drinks all your beverages, drives your second car around town with no license or insurance and gets in accidents, deals drugs and commits violent crimes, uses your identity for goods & services, puts his kids through school on your dime Etc. etc. etc. and each day it gets a little worse. Each day he brings more freinds and the party just keeps getting bigger and you are stuck paying all the bills.
How long do you think you could keep your house in order under these circumstances? How long could you continue before you were flat broke? Welcome to California!!! It seems there is a big fat illegal alien mexican elephant in the room and nobody dares talk about it. I'll talk about it. Sneak through a hole in the fence like an animal in the night and you are vermin. Stand in line like all the law abiding immigrants and observe the legal entry process we have and you are welcome with open arms to become an american. Speak english. There is NO SUCH THING AS AN "UNDOCUMENTED WORKER." This is just a liberal ploy to assign victim status to criminals.
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I am NOT prejudiced, I fucking hate everybody EQUALLY so don't go getting a big head about yourself there, dork vomit... |
07-21-2009, 04:41 PM | #25 (permalink) |
warrior bodhisattva
Super Moderator
Location: East-central Canada
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StinkyFinger, what does all that have to do with the economic crisis other than the fact that "illegal alien Mexican elephant worker vermin" offer a pool of cheap labour and have kept overall unskilled labour costs down for the state?
How many "legal Americans" in California would be willing to fill the hundreds of thousands of crappy job openings that would crop up if they got rid of them? How many of those jobs would evaporate once the "illegal employers" realize they'd have to actually pay minimum wage (and overtime pay) and maybe even offer benefits and a safe working environment before anyone would even consider it? Just trying to help you contextualize your rant for this thread.
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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot Last edited by Baraka_Guru; 07-21-2009 at 04:47 PM.. |
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california, crisis, current, economic |
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