Palin resigns - Page 4 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Tully Mars · 07-07-2009, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotandheavy

In the video that Ave provided, Sarah explained very well, even twice to the thick skulled Andrea Mitchell, why she is stepping down-to prevent a lame duck sitting governor. She knew she couldn't get any work done for the people of Alaska.

Hey maybe all elected officials should quit a year and half before they finish the term they ran for and were elected to fulfill.

Or we could just elect them for shorter terms.

Willravel · 07-07-2009, 07:25 PM

Choosing Governor Palin was the ultimate slap to the face of women. Instead of choosing one of the many brilliant women, women capable of true leadership and even headed critical thinking skills, they chose someone utterly incapable. Even after months of training, she couldn't answer questions like "What is the Bush Doctrine?" and "What magazines do you read?" Those are fluff questions.

Have you ever read the transcript of Susan B. Anthony's speech after getting caught voting before women were allowed? It's breathtaking. There are Susan B. Anthonys all around us, just waiting for the right opportunity to take a leadership position in society. There are women in the top positions in government and business around the world that could speak and more importantly think with that same brilliant clarity. Every time Sarah Palin winked at the camera during the debate, it was spitting in the face of great women.

Frosstbyte · 07-07-2009, 09:57 PM

Well said, will.

mixedmedia · 07-08-2009, 02:22 AM

I'll second that. Thanks, Will.

shakran · 07-08-2009, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotandheavy

#1. While I feel you will discount my reply, I'll go ahead anyways.

By her very existence she puts the lie to numerous liberal mantras, such as the notion that women cannot advance without affirmative action

I actually agree with this notion. I'm not a fan of affirmative action.

Quote:

Republicans are sexist

Hey, there are gay republicans too. That doesn't mean the party as a whole is supportive of gays either.

Quote:

anyone who loves Alaska's beauty can't support drilling in ANWR

I don't think any liberal has claimed that. Cite your source, please - and Rush Limbaugh claiming we said it doesn't count.

Quote:

and women need government programs to manage marriage, children and work simultaneously

I don't think you can look at any politician, especially one with the income-generating capability she apparently has, as proof that ordinary women do not need any help.

Speaking of which, I do wonder where she got the money for her 3000+ square foot house with the sea plane in the front lake. . .

Quote:

Sarah Palin doesn't just talk respect for unborn human life. She's lived it. She chose not to abort her son after learning that he had Down's syndrome.

There are lots of people, liberals included, who do not choose to have an abortion. The neocon mantra that liberals are baby killers is as undeserved as it is idiotic.

Quote:

She hasn't fallen for the myth of man made global climate change, or whatever they're calling it today.

I wonder if you've actually looked into the scientific research regarding this issue, or if you're just listening to what right-leaning talking heads are telling you. I assume that as an intelligent, independent woman it is the former, and am therefore curious why you have decided to side with the less-than-1% of scientists (most of whom are on the payroll of oil companies and other major polluters, and some of whom are barely scientists if at all by training) instead of the vast majority of them who are saying that the climate is in fact changing.

Quote:

She supports Isreal.

And that qualifies her to be president?

Quote:

#2. Sarah is not a Washington insider. Neither am I and I feel like NO ONE there is working for me. I want them ALL gone. I think like Sarah, so I know she would be working for me.

At what point does one become a Washington insider? Upon election to office? If so, it would be illogical to elect anyone, as they are doomed to become an insider as soon as they get there. If not, then I would point out that Franken can hardly be an insider as he's been a Senator for less than 24 hours. Should you not be throwing your support behind that maverick?

Quote:

In the video that Ave provided, Sarah explained very well, even twice to the thick skulled Andrea Mitchell, why she is stepping down-to prevent a lame duck sitting governor.

No, she didn't. The idea of stepping down once one decides not to run for another term means that no one should ever be in any sort of elected office because eventually they'll have to leave, and therefore will be a lame duck. The period between the decision not to run again and the next election is actually the best time to get stuff done, because you no longer have to worry about getting re-elected.

ratbastid · 07-08-2009, 04:58 AM

Okay, I'd like to bring this thread back up out of the rabbit hole to discuss Electoral-vote.com's analysis:

Electoral-vote.com: Election news (scroll down a bit)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Electoral-vote.com

Palin Revisited

There has been a ton written about Sarah Palin's resignation in the past few days. The dominant view (Charlie Cook being an exception) is that she is scheming to run in 2012 but her unorthodox move will backfire against her. With a bit of reflection, there is perhaps another story line. The main thing to consider is that she really disliked being governor. She refused to live in the governor's mansion in Juneau and instead lived at home in Wasilla, a suburb of Anchorage 600 miles from the capital. She had endless fights with the Republican-controlled state legislature and has been the subject of over 15 ethics probes and has spent over $500,000 of her own money (which she doesn't have) on lawyers defending herself. The bottom line is that she really hated the job so once she had decided not to run for relection in 2010, why stay at a job that is no fun at all?

Palin is also an impulsive person. She makes decisions on the spur of the moment without carefully weighing the pros and cons. Unlike Mitt Romney, who probably has an Excel spreadsheet with a row for every day from now until the Iowa caucuses in January 2012 listing precisely which Iowa villages, hamlets, and farms he is planning to visit that day and what he is going to say there, Palin is probably now focused on making a lot of money in the next 18 months so she can at least afford running in 2012, if she decides to do so. After all, in 2011 she probably won't have an income and it is hard to run for President and charge for your campaign speeches. She needs to make a few million this year and next even to seriously consider running. An upcoming book and paid speeches will fill the bill nicely.

Her resignation speech was rambling to the point of being incoherent. It is very unlikely she has a master plan at all. She just didn't like the situation she was in and wanted to get out of it and who knows what comes next.

Many pundits have said she wants to carry the conservative banner and that she is a female Ronald Reagan. I don't think that is true. She is a female George Wallace--an angry representative of the lower middle class who feels put upon by elites. She went to six third-tier colleges before managing to graduate and clearly resents people like President Obama who sailed through Columbia and Harvard Law School and surrounded himself with experts from the Ivy League and M.I.T. While she didn't single out pointy-headed intellectuals as the cause of the nation's problems, when listening to her, one feels she easily could and would probably like to except she is smart enough to realize that doing so would cause them to heap even more scorn on her--and she has incredibly thin skin for a politician, constantly blaming the media and hostile (often Republican) politicians for her problems. Her motto is: "It's not my fault."

George W. Bush was no intellectual himself by a long shot, but one didn't feel any rage in him. After all, he went to Phillips Academy, Yale, and Harvard, and was the son of a President, grandson of a senator, and brother of another governor, not exactly prime white trash material. Nobody would mistake him for a downtrodden and scorned worker barely hanging on and feeling the powerful didn't give a hoot about him. And he knew very well that had he been named Smith instead of Bush he would never have been governor of Texas, let alone President. For all her faults, Palin pulled herself up by her own bootstraps and was elected governor of a state by fighting her own battles. Nobody gave her anything. This makes her a fighter to her admirers, who don't give a damn about her IQ, her diplomas, or even her lack of knowledge of government. There is a lot of class resentment here and graduates of fancy universities can't understand why anybody would fall for what they see as a complete nincompoop. She represents Joe Sixpack a lot better than Joe the Plumber, who simply caught a lucky break when John McCain acquired him as his new best friend.

Whether she runs for President in 2012 probably depends on how well she likes her new life--once she figures out what it is. There are plenty of politicians who could have run for President and didn't, for example, Gov. Mario Cuomo (D-NY) in 1992 and Al Gore in 2004 and 2008. Palin may decide she likes being a speaker and class heroine and making millions of dollars a year and would prefer doing that until her 15 minutes of fame are up. She probably doesn't know what she is going to do in 2012 yet. God will tell her when he's ready to do so.

A Gallup poll taken July 6 shows that 70% of Americans say that their view Palin is unchanged by her resignation, with 43% willing to vote for her and 54% not willing to vote for her in 2012. She is popular with Republicans and unpopular with Democrats (surprise) but independents, who hold the key to any election, want her to leave the national stage 55% to 34%. Fixing that without alienating her base will be hard.

I think there's a lot to discuss here. I hadn't really considered how hard her job has been in Alaska, and how much she might just want out. I agree with this view that it doesn't seem she has a lot of "what's next" planned out--when asked she says something about making a difference in Alaska and the US, and she doesn't need to be Governor to do that.

I also think the contrast drawn between Palin and GWB in this piece is quite keen. While both ran on "everyman" roots, Palin's tone of anger (or... fiestyness?) is really the big differentiator between the two.

Derwood · 07-08-2009, 05:23 AM

If she thought governing Alaska was hard, she wouldn't last 6 hours in the White House

aceventura3 · 07-08-2009, 06:58 AM

Here is my concluding thought for this thread.

Assuming there is general agreement that since October 2008 Palin has done everything wrong and her resignation is a figurative death blow to her political future (I don't agree, but let's just assume that) - she still has polling number that suggest that 43% of all voters would consider voting for her in 2012 according to Gallup and 73% of Republicans. If she puts any kind of a team together that can help her do a few things "right", she will be a force that can not be ignored and she will be a force to be feared by Democrats and some entrenched Republicans. Some very powerful people have strong motives to take her down, she has been fighting alone with the grass roots support of millions of average Americans. The irony is that the more she is attacked the more she is supported. She has played her opening hand. At the end of the day, she is either going to win big or go back to the simple life in Alaska. Those who like politicians with no convictions will never understand the appeal of a person like Palin.

Derwood · 07-08-2009, 07:22 AM

I don't dispute those numbers, except to say that the poll question was probably "Would you vote for Sarah Palin, yes or no?", which is misleading since those being polled have no idea what other GOP candidates they'll have to choose from. What if Olympia Snowe (R-Maine) runs as well? Would they pick Palin over Romney or Huckabee? Etc., etc. ,etc.

dippin · 07-08-2009, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceventura3

Here is my concluding thought for this thread.

Assuming there is general agreement that since October 2008 Palin has done everything wrong and her resignation is a figurative death blow to her political future (I don't agree, but let's just assume that) - she still has polling number that suggest that 43% of all voters would consider voting for her in 2012 according to Gallup and 73% of Republicans. If she puts any kind of a team together that can help her do a few things "right", she will be a force that can not be ignored and she will be a force to be feared by Democrats and some entrenched Republicans. Some very powerful people have strong motives to take her down, she has been fighting alone with the grass roots support of millions of average Americans. The irony is that the more she is attacked the more she is supported. She has played her opening hand. At the end of the day, she is either going to win big or go back to the simple life in Alaska. Those who like politicians with no convictions will never understand the appeal of a person like Palin.

Polling over 2 years away from primaries and 3 from the election is essentially meaningless.

As far as her "bothering" powerful people, that has more to do with internal struggles of the republican party than any of her actual policy positions.

dc_dux · 07-08-2009, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceventura3

...she still has polling number that suggest that 43% of all voters would consider voting for her in 2012 according to Gallup and 73% of Republicans.

Even two years out, its fuzzy math.

You cant win an election with only 3 out of 4 of your own party (much of it soft support) and barely 4 out of 10 of independents (even softer support).....particularly with the highest negatives at the same time.

Rekna · 07-08-2009, 08:13 AM

If she runs for president and win's two terms will she quit 6 months into her second term because she doesn't want to be a lame duck?

shakran · 07-08-2009, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rekna

If she runs for president and win's two terms will she quit 6 months into her second term because she doesn't want to be a lame duck?

Only if the White House Department of Law tells her to.

Frosstbyte · 07-08-2009, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceventura3

Those who like politicians with no convictions will never understand the appeal of a person like Palin.

I would LOVE nothing more than to have a legitimate US politician who has strong personal convictions and stands by them. I just want that person to be informed, intelligent and capable of critically thinking about those convictions. Palin, despite everything else, has achieved quite a lot and I wouldn't detract that from her, but her convictions, as far as I can tell, are informed either by what the party has told her she should think or by her immediate emotional responses to the world. Neither of those are the kinds of convictions I want leading the country.

Willravel · 07-08-2009, 11:26 AM

BTW, how are you appreciating Alaska's beauty when you're shooting at it with a high powered rifle from a helicopter?

FuglyStick · 07-08-2009, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willravel

BTW, how are you appreciating Alaska's beauty when you're shooting at it with a high powered rifle from a helicopter?

Disingenuous, Will, and not pertinent. There is more than enough to criticize about Palin's politics and leadership qualifications without introducing a straw man.

Willravel · 07-08-2009, 12:50 PM

The inconsistencies in her environmental policies were brought up when talking about how appreciating Alaska can go hand in hand with destroying ANWR. The hunting from a helicopter is a great illustration of her real relationship with the environment.

ratbastid · 07-08-2009, 01:40 PM

I still can't fathom how having convictions trumps the capacity for rational thought and the ability to consider a matter from multiple perspectives.

Americans like their politics fed to them in small, bite-sized, black-and-white-colored portions, I guess. Convictions make a nice sound bite.

Rekna · 07-08-2009, 01:47 PM

The world had convictions that the earth was flat. They killed people who disagreed.
The world had convictions that the earth was the center of the universe. They killed people who disagreed.

Convictions can be wrong. Convictions are not always a good thing.

ratbastid · 07-08-2009, 01:54 PM

Well, shit, GWB had convictions regarding Iraq. Those turned out real great. Biggest fucking mistake in the history of our country. Convictions trumped reason, trumped logic, trumped evidence to the contrary.

I actually want to elect the person with the LEAST convictions. I don't want my president or any other person representing or governing me to be "religious" about ANY issue. That way I KNOW they'd research, study, listen, and learn before taking action. If the Bush administration had done ANY listening to ANY of the people who were telling them not to go into Iraq, our country's situation would be vastly better than it is today.

mixedmedia · 07-08-2009, 02:26 PM

And since when doesn't practically everyone on the fucking planet have convictions? It's what those convictions are that matters. It's ludicrous to support someone based on the fact that they 'have convictions.' I've no doubt that the majority of people who go into DC politics have (or did have) real, compelling convictions at some point in their political careers. That's what makes smart people who could make more money elsewhere go into politics in the first place.

I am as disillusioned with the static, corrupt quality that much of our national politics consists of as anyone, but to purport that Sarah Palin is more remarkable than anyone who went before her and is therefore better equipped to withstand the forces of what is truly an immovable political machine is so naive it gives me a sugar rush. I can tell you one thing this country needs to do right quick is grow the fuck up and stop mythologizing these people. Mr. Smith was fiction. There is no such beast.

---------- Post added at 06:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:56 PM ----------

Sorry about that...this thread is making me testy. Everybody carry on.

scout · 07-08-2009, 02:36 PM

With all the problems facing this country I can't believe everyone here is still talking about this.

dc_dux · 07-08-2009, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixedmedia

....this thread is making me testy. Everybody carry on.

Its ok. Palin got testing too.

Particularly when criticized by the media for repeated baseless shots at Obama (palling round with terrorists and racists, etc), which she has every right to take, during the campaign, then complaining that such criticism of her by the media might lead to some dreaded infringement on First Amendment rights:

"I don’t know what the future of our country would be in terms of First Amendment rights and our ability to ask questions without fear of attacks by the mainstream media.”

WTF....just doesnt have a clue.

---------- Post added at 06:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:50 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by scout

With all the problems facing this country I can't believe everyone here is still talking about this.

Politics is not just about policy. Those who aspire to high political office are also worthy of discussion.

Or perhaps its just amusing to watch the decline and fall of one such person and attempts by others to defend the indefensible. I admit....cheap thrills .

mixedmedia · 07-08-2009, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_dux

Its ok. Palin got testing too.

Particularly when criticized by the media for repeated baseless shots at Obama (palling round with terrorists and racists, etc), which she has every right to take, during the campaign, then complaining that such criticism of her by the media might lead to some dreaded infringement on First Amendment rights:

"I don’t know what the future of our country would be in terms of First Amendment rights and our ability to ask questions without fear of attacks by the mainstream media.”

WTF....just doesnt have a clue.

You won't find me boo-hooing over her treatment by the media. I haven't noticed any 'spotlight' politicians catching a break in the 'liberal media' regardless of affiliation. Like I said before, I fail to see where she's been treated any worse than any other controversial political figure. As far as I can tell, she just can't take it. And that's fine, I probably couldn't either. She's average, so what? Next!

dc_dux · 07-08-2009, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixedmedia

You won't find me boo-hooing over her treatment by the media. I haven't noticed any 'spotlight' politicians catching a break in the 'liberal media' regardless of affiliation. Like I said before, I fail to see where she's been treated any worse than any other controversial political figure. As far as I can tell, she just can't take it. And that's fine, I probably couldn't either. She's average, so what? Next!

The issue I have is her attempt to make it some infringement of her First Amendment rights.

That is such an ignorant misinterpretation of the most basic of Constitutional rights, its appalling.

mixedmedia · 07-08-2009, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_dux

The issue I have is her attempt to make it some infringement of her First Amendment rights.

That is such an ignorant misinterpretation of the most basic of Constitutional rights, its appalling.

Honestly, I'm not aware enough to know about that. I've never even seen the woman speak, if you can believe that. (read lots of transcripts, though) Is she seriously making the claim that her rights have been violated?

Wyodiver33 · 07-08-2009, 03:13 PM

The main reason that I am not fond of this thread is because I really want to keep polarizing politics out of the TFP. I don't want fights. Let other areas of the web fight. I just don't want that here. Nobody will win.

Want my take? Palin and the Republicans are insane. O'Reilly won't be happy until something really bad happens to the US. Rush should be tried for treason. I had to deal with 8 years of Cheney-Bush. I hate the GOP. For you to have the f'ing nerve to blame everything on Obama makes me sick.

See? That's why we should really keep the TFP politics-free. I like you all, until you show your Republican side. Let's keep the THP as an oasis.

(BTW, I served in the USAF from 1989 to 1999, most of my time was in Special Ops, so just don't try, ok? Cool.)

dc_dux · 07-08-2009, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixedmedia

Honestly, I'm not aware enough to know about that. I've never even seen the woman speak, if you can believe that. (read lots of transcripts, though) Is she seriously making the claim that her rights have been violated?

The Young Turks explains it pretty well:

YouTube - Sarah Palin Doesn't Understand First Amendment

YouTube - Sarah Palin Doesn't Understand First Amendment

mixedmedia · 07-08-2009, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_dux

The Young Turks explains it pretty well:

YouTube - Sarah Palin Doesn't Understand First Amendment

uh, wow, ok.

'real bullies always have a victim mentality'

oh man, that gave me shivers, it's so true.

Thanks.

shakran · 07-08-2009, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyodiver33

The main reason that I am not fond of this thread is because I really want to keep polarizing politics out of the TFP. I don't want fights. Let other areas of the web fight. I just don't want that here. Nobody will win.

Personally, I think the heart of politics is debate, and political debate is by definition polarizing. Either you think women should have the right to an abortion or you don't. Either you think gays should be able to marry or you don't. And if you think it, you're gonna be at polar opposites to the guy who doesn't.

There are lots of forums (forae? Fora?) under the TFP umbrella that are not polarized. If people don't want to see political debate, they aren't required to come in here. For those of us that do, our polarization, as you put it, doesn't seem to leak out to the rest of the board very much.

This thread is a rather classic example. There are people out there who actually think Palin is intelligent, and those of us who realize that she is a moron do not understand why the other side thinks what they do. There's no way to get around that, beyond passing some blanket rule of "do not debate anything in politics," at which point we may as well close the forum.

Wyodiver33 · 07-08-2009, 07:37 PM

Please, I am telling you, let the Dem/GOP debate get out of hand and we will have problems. I Don't want that to happen here on the TFP. Set me off and I will go nuts about my beliefs. I just think that the discussion would boil down to hate. And I don't want that. It would serve no purpose.

Here's an example of how I feel: GW Bush was never in charge. GW was Cheney's bitch. Read the book called "Fiasco." Powell quit because he was used. Rumsfelt would never have been happy until he had a third world war. It goes on and on. Rush? O'Reilly? Should be sent off to Antarctica.

See? There really is no place on the TFP for this. I want us to all remain friends.

Palin is an idiot. Republicans are idiots. Pro-lifers are idiots. Anti-stemcell people are idiots. People who think the Earth is only 6000 years old are idiots. People who doubt global warming are idiots. Sarah Palin is a friggin' moron. I kind of begged you guys to not get me involved here. She's dumb as a box of rocks and well on her way to getting her GW Bush Corruption Merit Badge. She lives in the last really beautiful state but sees all critters as a pain in the ass.

Whatever. I hope she does run in 2012, will be a slam dunk.

Willravel · 07-08-2009, 07:57 PM

HEY! That's not nice! Apologize:

Rekna · 07-08-2009, 08:35 PM

This is a politics board. People will have strong opinions here. This has been going on forever and the point of this board is to keep it out of the other ones. At the end of the day i'd still have a beer with anyone here and i'm hoping the feeling is mutual. (Though i'm sure after a few beers the politics discussion would get really really good...)

shakran · 07-08-2009, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyodiver33

Please, I am telling you, let the Dem/GOP debate get out of hand and we will have problems. I Don't want that to happen here on the TFP. Set me off and I will go nuts about my beliefs. I just think that the discussion would boil down to hate. And I don't want that. It would serve no purpose.

Here's an example of how I feel: GW Bush was never in charge. GW was Cheney's bitch. Read the book called "Fiasco." Powell quit because he was used. Rumsfelt would never have been happy until he had a third world war. It goes on and on. Rush? O'Reilly? Should be sent off to Antarctica.

See? There really is no place on the TFP for this. I want us to all remain friends.

Alright, then stop saying the things you say there is no place for here, while couching them in protests against them. Politics has been around for many years, and no one's died yet. This particular threadjack is now over.

dippin · 07-08-2009, 09:20 PM

to bring it back on topic:
Key Reason Palin Gave For Quitting May Be False | The Plum Line

apparently, the expressed reason is actually false. Not that I am surprised, but it seems like a lot of people are willing to throw her under the bus.

My guess right now as to why she quit has nothing to do with media, legal bills, or looming scandal: ever since she became a national figure she has dedicated more and more time to her national profile. Things like her declining stimulus money, for example, was a decision that seemed to pit her national ambitions and the staff dedicated to her national profile against the local staff and their priorities. I wouldn't be surprised if it just got to a point where her staff and supporters simply came up to her and said "either quit or we resign and hammer you publicly."

shakran · 07-08-2009, 09:27 PM

I don't see anything overly shocking in that dippin. You see such claims all over the place. "It cost the city $300,000 to have its engineers design this road." . . . So the city wouldn't have paid the engineer's salaries if it hadn't been for the road? Obviously not.

I think this blog is trying a bit too hard. Palin could easily have meant "I don't want the lawyers to be paid to defend my office, but to do other work for the state."

That said, I do think the reasons she gave are highly suspect.

ratbastid · 07-09-2009, 04:38 AM

82-year-old blogger Helen Philpot sums up my feelings exactly:

Quote:

Originally Posted by brilliant older american

My God that woman is an idiot. I have said this before, but I feel the need to say it again. Her problems did not come because the media was against her. Her problems come because every time you stick a microphone in front of her mouth a whole lot of stupid falls out.

I love this woman. LOVE. I want her to be my grandma.
SARAH PALIN CALLED A FAMILY MEETING AND THE RABBIT LIVED… Margaret and Helen

shakran · 07-09-2009, 05:09 AM

Damn, she doesn't pull any punches there, does she.

Made a good point about Palin wanting less government "unless there's a vagina involved."

hotandheavy · 07-09-2009, 06:07 AM

I'm so tired of trying to explain my support of SP. Not here, but IRL. I "get" her. Her haters will dismiss me as being as stupid as she supposedly is. I pretty much strongly dislike all politicians-Dems, Repubes.

The truth is, liberals are furious they won't have Sarah Palin to kick around anymore with ridiculous ethics violations – at least not with her hands tied behind her back by her public office.

I have held the opinion for a long time that dyed in the wool liberal women really want to see conservative women fail. Because it's not about all women, it's only about promoting the feminist agenda. I believe that all people are equal, I don't need special consideration to get a job, buy a home, start a business, etc. Compassion has no place in politics.

Politics is an incredibly polarizing blood sport right now. I am perfectly comfortable with my belief system, and reading liberals opinions is only entertaining to me. You won't change my mind, I don't expect to change yours. But I do pay attention to others political views as they almost always tie into every other aspect of life. Entitlement issues, personal responsibility, freedom, equality.

aceventura3 · 07-09-2009, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixedmedia

And since when doesn't practically everyone on the fucking planet have convictions? It's what those convictions are that matters. It's ludicrous to support someone based on the fact that they 'have convictions.' I've no doubt that the majority of people who go into DC politics have (or did have) real, compelling convictions at some point in their political careers. That's what makes smart people who could make more money elsewhere go into politics in the first place.

What are Obama's convictions? What will he stand for without compromise? What will he give maximum sacrifice for? What would he risk in exchange for his political power?

I can give answers to those questions regarding Palin, I could not for Obama.

07-08-2009, 02:22 AM	#124 (permalink)
mixedmedia has all her shots. Location: Florida	I'll second that. Thanks, Will. __________________ Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

07-08-2009, 06:58 AM	#128 (permalink)
aceventura3 Junkie Location: Ventura County	Here is my concluding thought for this thread. Assuming there is general agreement that since October 2008 Palin has done everything wrong and her resignation is a figurative death blow to her political future (I don't agree, but let's just assume that) - she still has polling number that suggest that 43% of all voters would consider voting for her in 2012 according to Gallup and 73% of Republicans. If she puts any kind of a team together that can help her do a few things "right", she will be a force that can not be ignored and she will be a force to be feared by Democrats and some entrenched Republicans. Some very powerful people have strong motives to take her down, she has been fighting alone with the grass roots support of millions of average Americans. The irony is that the more she is attacked the more she is supported. She has played her opening hand. At the end of the day, she is either going to win big or go back to the simple life in Alaska. Those who like politicians with no convictions will never understand the appeal of a person like Palin. __________________ "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

07-08-2009, 02:26 PM	#141 (permalink)
mixedmedia has all her shots. Location: Florida	And since when doesn't practically everyone on the fucking planet have convictions? It's what those convictions are that matters. It's ludicrous to support someone based on the fact that they 'have convictions.' I've no doubt that the majority of people who go into DC politics have (or did have) real, compelling convictions at some point in their political careers. That's what makes smart people who could make more money elsewhere go into politics in the first place. I am as disillusioned with the static, corrupt quality that much of our national politics consists of as anyone, but to purport that Sarah Palin is more remarkable than anyone who went before her and is therefore better equipped to withstand the forces of what is truly an immovable political machine is so naive it gives me a sugar rush. I can tell you one thing this country needs to do right quick is grow the fuck up and stop mythologizing these people. Mr. Smith was fiction. There is no such beast. ---------- Post added at 06:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:56 PM ---------- Sorry about that...this thread is making me testy. Everybody carry on. __________________ Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

07-08-2009, 02:36 PM	#142 (permalink)
scout Psycho	With all the problems facing this country I can't believe everyone here is still talking about this. __________________ "The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson

07-08-2009, 03:13 PM	#147 (permalink)
Wyodiver33 Just here for the beer. Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Floriduh	The main reason that I am not fond of this thread is because I really want to keep polarizing politics out of the TFP. I don't want fights. Let other areas of the web fight. I just don't want that here. Nobody will win. Want my take? Palin and the Republicans are insane. O'Reilly won't be happy until something really bad happens to the US. Rush should be tried for treason. I had to deal with 8 years of Cheney-Bush. I hate the GOP. For you to have the f'ing nerve to blame everything on Obama makes me sick. See? That's why we should really keep the TFP politics-free. I like you all, until you show your Republican side. Let's keep the THP as an oasis. (BTW, I served in the USAF from 1989 to 1999, most of my time was in Special Ops, so just don't try, ok? Cool.) __________________ I like stuff.

07-07-2009, 07:25 PM	#122 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Choosing Governor Palin was the ultimate slap to the face of women. Instead of choosing one of the many brilliant women, women capable of true leadership and even headed critical thinking skills, they chose someone utterly incapable. Even after months of training, she couldn't answer questions like "What is the Bush Doctrine?" and "What magazines do you read?" Those are fluff questions. Have you ever read the transcript of Susan B. Anthony's speech after getting caught voting before women were allowed? It's breathtaking. There are Susan B. Anthonys all around us, just waiting for the right opportunity to take a leadership position in society. There are women in the top positions in government and business around the world that could speak and more importantly think with that same brilliant clarity. Every time Sarah Palin winked at the camera during the debate, it was spitting in the face of great women.

07-07-2009, 09:57 PM	#123 (permalink)
Frosstbyte Winter is Coming Location: The North	Well said, will.

07-08-2009, 05:23 AM	#127 (permalink)
Derwood Who You Crappin? Location: Everywhere and Nowhere	If she thought governing Alaska was hard, she wouldn't last 6 hours in the White House

07-08-2009, 07:22 AM	#129 (permalink)
Derwood Who You Crappin? Location: Everywhere and Nowhere	I don't dispute those numbers, except to say that the poll question was probably "Would you vote for Sarah Palin, yes or no?", which is misleading since those being polled have no idea what other GOP candidates they'll have to choose from. What if Olympia Snowe (R-Maine) runs as well? Would they pick Palin over Romney or Huckabee? Etc., etc. ,etc.

07-08-2009, 08:13 AM	#132 (permalink)
Rekna Junkie	If she runs for president and win's two terms will she quit 6 months into her second term because she doesn't want to be a lame duck?

07-08-2009, 11:26 AM	#135 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	BTW, how are you appreciating Alaska's beauty when you're shooting at it with a high powered rifle from a helicopter?

07-08-2009, 12:50 PM	#137 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	The inconsistencies in her environmental policies were brought up when talking about how appreciating Alaska can go hand in hand with destroying ANWR. The hunting from a helicopter is a great illustration of her real relationship with the environment.

07-08-2009, 01:40 PM	#138 (permalink)
ratbastid Darth Papa Location: Yonder	I still can't fathom how having convictions trumps the capacity for rational thought and the ability to consider a matter from multiple perspectives. Americans like their politics fed to them in small, bite-sized, black-and-white-colored portions, I guess. Convictions make a nice sound bite.

07-08-2009, 01:47 PM	#139 (permalink)
Rekna Junkie	The world had convictions that the earth was flat. They killed people who disagreed. The world had convictions that the earth was the center of the universe. They killed people who disagreed. Convictions can be wrong. Convictions are not always a good thing.

07-08-2009, 01:54 PM	#140 (permalink)
ratbastid Darth Papa Location: Yonder	Well, shit, GWB had convictions regarding Iraq. Those turned out real great. Biggest fucking mistake in the history of our country. Convictions trumped reason, trumped logic, trumped evidence to the contrary. I actually want to elect the person with the LEAST convictions. I don't want my president or any other person representing or governing me to be "religious" about ANY issue. That way I KNOW they'd research, study, listen, and learn before taking action. If the Bush administration had done ANY listening to ANY of the people who were telling them not to go into Iraq, our country's situation would be vastly better than it is today.

07-08-2009, 07:37 PM	#151 (permalink)
Wyodiver33 Just here for the beer. Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Floriduh	Please, I am telling you, let the Dem/GOP debate get out of hand and we will have problems. I Don't want that to happen here on the TFP. Set me off and I will go nuts about my beliefs. I just think that the discussion would boil down to hate. And I don't want that. It would serve no purpose. Here's an example of how I feel: GW Bush was never in charge. GW was Cheney's bitch. Read the book called "Fiasco." Powell quit because he was used. Rumsfelt would never have been happy until he had a third world war. It goes on and on. Rush? O'Reilly? Should be sent off to Antarctica. See? There really is no place on the TFP for this. I want us to all remain friends. Palin is an idiot. Republicans are idiots. Pro-lifers are idiots. Anti-stemcell people are idiots. People who think the Earth is only 6000 years old are idiots. People who doubt global warming are idiots. Sarah Palin is a friggin' moron. I kind of begged you guys to not get me involved here. She's dumb as a box of rocks and well on her way to getting her GW Bush Corruption Merit Badge. She lives in the last really beautiful state but sees all critters as a pain in the ass. Whatever. I hope she does run in 2012, will be a slam dunk. __________________ I like stuff. Last edited by Wyodiver33; 07-08-2009 at 07:51 PM..

07-08-2009, 07:57 PM	#152 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	HEY! That's not nice! Apologize:

07-08-2009, 08:35 PM	#153 (permalink)
Rekna Junkie	This is a politics board. People will have strong opinions here. This has been going on forever and the point of this board is to keep it out of the other ones. At the end of the day i'd still have a beer with anyone here and i'm hoping the feeling is mutual. (Though i'm sure after a few beers the politics discussion would get really really good...)

07-08-2009, 09:20 PM	#155 (permalink)
dippin Crazy, indeed Location: the ether	to bring it back on topic: Key Reason Palin Gave For Quitting May Be False \| The Plum Line apparently, the expressed reason is actually false. Not that I am surprised, but it seems like a lot of people are willing to throw her under the bus. My guess right now as to why she quit has nothing to do with media, legal bills, or looming scandal: ever since she became a national figure she has dedicated more and more time to her national profile. Things like her declining stimulus money, for example, was a decision that seemed to pit her national ambitions and the staff dedicated to her national profile against the local staff and their priorities. I wouldn't be surprised if it just got to a point where her staff and supporters simply came up to her and said "either quit or we resign and hammer you publicly."

07-08-2009, 09:27 PM	#156 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	I don't see anything overly shocking in that dippin. You see such claims all over the place. "It cost the city $300,000 to have its engineers design this road." . . . So the city wouldn't have paid the engineer's salaries if it hadn't been for the road? Obviously not. I think this blog is trying a bit too hard. Palin could easily have meant "I don't want the lawyers to be paid to defend my office, but to do other work for the state." That said, I do think the reasons she gave are highly suspect.

07-09-2009, 05:09 AM	#158 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	Damn, she doesn't pull any punches there, does she. Made a good point about Palin wanting less government "unless there's a vagina involved."

07-09-2009, 06:07 AM	#159 (permalink)
hotandheavy Upright Location: Western WI	I'm so tired of trying to explain my support of SP. Not here, but IRL. I "get" her. Her haters will dismiss me as being as stupid as she supposedly is. I pretty much strongly dislike all politicians-Dems, Repubes. The truth is, liberals are furious they won't have Sarah Palin to kick around anymore with ridiculous ethics violations – at least not with her hands tied behind her back by her public office. I have held the opinion for a long time that dyed in the wool liberal women really want to see conservative women fail. Because it's not about all women, it's only about promoting the feminist agenda. I believe that all people are equal, I don't need special consideration to get a job, buy a home, start a business, etc. Compassion has no place in politics. Politics is an incredibly polarizing blood sport right now. I am perfectly comfortable with my belief system, and reading liberals opinions is only entertaining to me. You won't change my mind, I don't expect to change yours. But I do pay attention to others political views as they almost always tie into every other aspect of life. Entitlement issues, personal responsibility, freedom, equality.