Derwood

Nice work cherry-picking the quote. Let me state it again, maybe a little slower this time (and with emphasis):

See that part? The part you ignored in your continuing attempts to argue against something that no one is saying?

pan6467

This is a thread about reparations to the black population, if you want to get technical.

So, the Hispanic population in poverty does not matter. Only the black.

See, I disagree with you and I am explaining why and what I see coming from you.

Your responses have been more yelling at me telling me that other people in poverty don't matter because this is all about the black community. You say you are for reparations, then add the caveat, "well only in social programs that will help the black population."

When someone points out that you are still only focusing on one group and not ALL in poverty, this then becomes a thread where we are supposed to only talk about blacks. But.... the social programs are supposed to be for ALL, but you only want the blacks to succeed and therefore if the programs work and pull people of all races and groups out of poverty but the blacks aren't moving upward as fast (by your stats and in your mind).... then those programs must be failures because it didn't help the group you put the primary focus on.

When one points this out you just get pissy and snarky and refuse to see what is being pointed out to you.

---------- Post added at 02:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:07 PM ----------

And you didn't read the whole post did you?

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

roachboy

when i went to the museum of natural history in new york, i was amused by what appeared to be an accident of layout so that one passed from higher primates to native americans without a break. i don't think the museum of natural history meant to give the impression that native americans were higher primates, but they did.

you, on the other hand, you managed to make the same kind of equation, but you did it deliberately.

it's almost refreshing to see a conservative racist fess up.
most who hold such beliefs think the individual claims are true, but they don't like the word racist.
so they pretend they aren't.
but not you: you walk right into it.

brilliantly played.

if you didn't mean to equate african-americans and animals, maybe it' d be a good idea to edit what you write.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Derwood

Find me the post where Will said that the social programs should ONLY be for blacks

Baraka_Guru

Jump to conclusions much?

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Willravel

I wasn't pissy the first 300 times I explained it, Pan, but eventually it gets old. I'm getting tired of repeating myself to you.

This thread is about reparations for slavery. Since I think we all agree that sending out checks is a bad idea, it then moves to what should be done in order to deal with the real issue: social and financial inequality. And yes, social and financial inequality aren't just a phenomena in the black population, but this thread is specifically about the black population so that's our context for discussion for better or worse. This is a very, very simple concept, and you're intentionally not accepting this simple explanation, as evidenced here:
Nowhere in this thread or anywhere else did I say I only want black people to succeed. You made that up, and it's that point that I never made that you keep pressuring me to explain. Sorry, I won't indulge your strawman. I never said I only want "the blacks" to succeed, I simple named them specifically because the thread is about reparations. I also said, numerous times, that I want the poor to succeed. That's the whole idea. I want the poor to have a more equal footing. Because black people are disproportionately poor, that works within the framework of the thread.

Stop putting incorrect words in my mouth and move on. This is the last time I'll respond to this issue.

pan6467

Then answer these 2 questions: If we have social programs for all and the black population still lags behind, what will you say then?

Then why are you saying you are for reparations, but only as social programs that help all? Those are not reparations.

I still say you cannot have both. It's either social programs for all or reparations.... one or the other, not both.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Derwood

Say it all you want.

Zenturian

Actions speak for themselves. 3 in 4 black kids born today are from single mother homes.

Willravel

If the social programs I'm advocating are implemented and after 2-3 generations there's still substantial racially based social and economic inequality, then we'd have to reexamine years of data, but at least we've leveled the playing field in a meaningful way for the poor. I kinda doubt that will happen based on high performance being linked repeatedly to the quality of school, but it's not completely impossible.
Let's say I have a son and my son has friends that all have birthdays on the same day as my son. Instead of having three parties, the other parents and I decide to have one big party. Did my son get a birthday party?

Zenturian

So what is more condensending, me thinking that blacks have to take charge of their lives or the other notion that they are doomed unless whitey helps them out?

Willravel

You're still not putting 2 and 2 together here. Multigenerational poverty along with social inequality has a detrimental effect on the family unit. It has nothing to do with culture and everything to do with socioeconomics.

powerclown

What, you have something against animals? Whats wrong with animals? Do they make you feel uncomfortable? Do they make you feel defensive and self-conscious? Is it something about how they walk or bark? Are you jealous because they can run faster than you? I think it may be time for you to do a little soul-searching, possibly a comprehensive re-evaluation of your values.

Poppinjay

Could I just have $30? $30 would get through the week. You'd be amazed at how I can stretch $30.

__________________
I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

Polar

PREVIOUSLY OR CURRENTLY FOUND IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA:

- Black President of the United States
- Black Supreme Court Justice
- Black UN ambassador
- Two Black Secretaries of State of the United States
- Black Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
- Black Senators
- Black Congressmen
- Black Mayors of major cities
- Black Police chiefs of major cities
- Black Fire Chiefs of major cities
- Black CEOs of major companies such as American Express, Citigroup, Aetna, and Merrill Lynch
- Black Astronauts in NASA including a Shuttle commander
- Major Black Multi-Millionaire Maintream Entertainers such as Oprah Winfrey, Will Smith, Denzel Washington, etc.
- Black Millionaire Directors such as Spike Lee and John Singleton
- Major Black Multi-MillionaireAthletes Such as Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.
- Black coaches in the NBA, NFL, and MLB
- Majority of of Athletes found in NFL and NBA are Black
- Black Heads of Hospitals
- Black Presidents of Colleges
- Black Generals in the U.S. Military

This doesn't even begin to encompass the millions of Black doctors, lawyers, architects, business owners, college professors, scientists, airline pilots, policemen, firemen, nurses, being judged by "content of their character" instead of the color of their skin.




You yourself are missing the entire point.
If it is indeed due to "multigenerational poverty" then NONE of the successes listed about would have happened.


And it certainly wouldn't account for the MILLIONS of Blacks currently in college heading for a better life, either.



At some point playing the victim begins to look like the child throwing a temper tantrum because he didn't like the toy he got with his Happy Meal.

Zenturian

Look at the Irish. They are not so harmed by slavery like the blacks as you claim. The Irish came to America a slaves in a higher percentage than blacks. And it was not until the 30's that the "Irish need not apply" signs had to be taken down. They suffered like blacks did from the ills of slavery. And no one would be absurd enough to say that the Irish should get reparations. In the 1600's half the population of Ireland came to the New World in chains. How come they don't have such a high single parent ratio? You are bending over backwards to deny that maybe, just mabye, black behavior is responcible for black ills.

Derwood

so because some poor people have managed to escape poverty, that means we shouldn't help those who haven't?

roachboy

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Willravel

Saying black people are disproportionately poor is not the same thing as saying all black people are poor. Some black people are middle class and some are quite well off. Still, black people on the whole are disproportionately poor, and it's that fact coupled with social inequality that attribute to the problems that iirc you have attributed to simply having a broken culture. You'll have to correct me if that wasn't your position, the right is starting to blur together.
You compared black people to animals. There's no amount of back pedaling in the world to get out of that one.
I have a simple way of answering this:
Am I of Irish or British decent?

powerclown

OMG! I did what? Call the Police or the Army or the Geek Squad or something!!

Yeah thats right...I compared blacks to animals. Brilliant. I would do that. Blacks are dogs and cats, lets see...whites are narwals, mexicans are spanish minks (get it? there brownish), umm, japanese are mandrils, chinese are yellow canaries, uh, the french are poodles of course, germans are moose, eskimos are wild jackasses, hawaiians are green tree pythons, brazilians are dung beetles, and canadians are laughing jackasses.

You're that bratty, self-righteous, insecure kid who sat in the front and center seat in 6th grade history class and narced on anyone who shot spitballs, aren't you?

Zenturian

I am Irish too. Your point? Why can Chinese, Irish and Blacks all suffer from slavery, but only the Blacks seem so damaged by it that they need help? Why did the other groups manage to lift themselves out of ditch? Why do you feel that Blacks are incapable of bettering themselves?

roachboy

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite