|
View Poll Results: Who do you trust more? | |||
Big Brother (Government) | 29 | 69.05% | |
Big Business (Corporations) | 13 | 30.95% | |
Voters: 42. You may not vote on this poll |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools |
03-07-2009, 09:31 AM | #41 (permalink) | |
Walking is Still Honest
Location: Seattle, WA
|
Quote:
When relevance tops out at Obama and Limbaugh, irrelevance starts looking pretty good to me.
__________________
I wonder if we're stuck in Rome. |
|
03-07-2009, 11:07 AM | #42 (permalink) |
Addict
Location: Cottage Grove, Wisconsin
|
Nope, no charity whatsoever for people who side with racists, which is what he has done. Where was his charity in the sixties? With the rich and the white. So, with all due respect (i.e., none), fuck Ron Paul.
It's extremely doubtful that he could get elected anywhere besides 3/4 white districts in the sun belt. |
03-07-2009, 11:26 AM | #43 (permalink) | |
Walking is Still Honest
Location: Seattle, WA
|
Quote:
Or am I giving you too much credit?
__________________
I wonder if we're stuck in Rome. |
|
03-07-2009, 01:34 PM | #45 (permalink) | |
Browncoat
Location: California
|
Quote:
What you're whining about is the imaginary right to be treated equally by individual members of society. Such a policy would be unenforceable, though I'm sure there are plenty of people who would be willing to trample our freedoms trying to enforce it. Should we pass a law requiring people on the street to offer an equally cheery greeting to everyone they see? If Joe is going to the store and holds the door open for a black woman but not an Asian one, should he be charged with a crime?
__________________
"I am certain that nothing has done so much to destroy the safeguards of individual freedom as the striving after this mirage of social justice." - Friedrich Hayek |
|
03-07-2009, 02:49 PM | #46 (permalink) | |
Who You Crappin?
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
|
Quote:
|
|
03-07-2009, 11:46 PM | #47 (permalink) | |
Conspiracy Realist
Location: The Event Horizon
|
Quote:
__________________
To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking |
|
03-08-2009, 08:26 AM | #48 (permalink) |
Addict
Location: Cottage Grove, Wisconsin
|
How is this relevant?
The Voting Rights Act was not about affirmative action, and neither really was the Civil Rights Act. "Affirmative action" as you know it was an executive policy developed under the Nixon administration, a means of enforcing the Civil Rights Act. There were other means of enforcing the act. Whether by design or accident, "affirmative action" turned out to be a brilliant move politically, because it proved to be an effective wedge issue which broke apart the Democrat's coalition. So, despite the Nixonian origin, the backlash against AA benefitted Republicans like Ron Paul & Ronnie Reagan. I know you guys like to think of him as a maverick, but on this issue RP is totally mainstream Republican. Unfortunately, for him and the Republicans, it's not 1980 anymore. I think the politics of backlash were finished by 2001, but if it wasn't clear at the time, Obama's victory, particulary his showing in NC & Virginia, made it glaringly obvious. RP's "high-minded" stand against renewing the Voting Rights Act etc. is part of the Republican racism-once-removed tactics that began with Nixon's Southern Strategy and ended with Obama's victory last fall. The world has moved on. But for all that, his racial politics are more up to date than his ideas on the economy, where he's an embarrassment even to neoliberals. |
03-08-2009, 10:22 AM | #49 (permalink) | |
Walking is Still Honest
Location: Seattle, WA
|
Minus the racism part, of course. I'm still curious as to how much you hate the ACLU.
Quote:
And "up to date" is a really silly way to condemn or defend a belief.
__________________
I wonder if we're stuck in Rome. |
|
03-08-2009, 11:01 AM | #50 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: In the land of ice and snow.
|
Quote:
It isn't the only way to evaluate an idea, but it certainly isn't silly. |
|
03-08-2009, 11:31 AM | #51 (permalink) | |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
|
Quote:
__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
|
03-08-2009, 12:08 PM | #52 (permalink) | ||
Walking is Still Honest
Location: Seattle, WA
|
Quote:
---------- Post added at 01:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:03 PM ---------- Quote:
Guyy didn't provide me much more than "I don't like people who side with racists". It's not a false equivalence. At least not until guyy elaborates with more.
__________________
I wonder if we're stuck in Rome. |
||
03-08-2009, 12:36 PM | #53 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: In the land of ice and snow.
|
Quote:
Which doctor would you rather go to, the one whose knowledge of your particular malady is out of date, or the one whose knowledge is completely current? I mean, yeah, of course there are exceptions. There are exceptions to every rule-- pointing that out doesn't invalidate the rule unless you're dealing in absolutes. Speaking of absolutes, you seemed pretty absolute in your claim that the relative up to datedness of a person with respect to their particular field was a silly metric. You're wrong. Especially when the subject with which someone is out of date is economics, a field which seems to be much better at hindsight than foresight. |
|
03-08-2009, 01:58 PM | #54 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
|
fta: actually, if you want to play the pedantic logical game, which seems to be your preference, the "problem" you are trying to goade guyy into responding to is predicated on an entirely false equivalence--that the aclu is somehow racist first, and secondly that the way in which such logic as there is behind the first statement operates, this "racism" is somehow like that which guyy imputed to ron paul. none of that holds outside of some arbitrary construction of your own.
faced with this, the options are: ignore it altogether; or demonstrate why ignoring it is a reasonable response; or assume that your rickety machinery is legitimate and play along, walking into a poorly reasoned "problem". since 3 is out of the question, 1 seems most likely and reasonable. you should be grateful that someone opted for 2, simply because it required devoting more time and attention to your rickety little machine that it merits. that help explain the comment?
__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
03-08-2009, 02:20 PM | #55 (permalink) | |||||
Walking is Still Honest
Location: Seattle, WA
|
Quote:
Quote:
"Total crapshoot" doesn't imply the lack of validation. It's not an absolute. It implies that you can't reliably count on validation. And unless you want to get circular, you can't. Quote:
---------- Post added at 03:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:16 PM ---------- Never said. Read before you jab. Quote:
Quote:
__________________
I wonder if we're stuck in Rome. |
|||||
03-08-2009, 02:26 PM | #57 (permalink) |
has all her shots.
Location: Florida
|
This always happens whenever someone rolls the corpse of Ayn Rand into the room.
---------- Post added at 06:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:25 PM ---------- oh, and I would thank you all to refrain from using tired phrases like 'trample our freedoms' before the cocktail hour.
__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce |
03-08-2009, 02:45 PM | #58 (permalink) | ||
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
||
03-08-2009, 02:59 PM | #59 (permalink) |
has all her shots.
Location: Florida
|
Thank you, cyn. I wanted to come back and at least address the OP since I contributed to the thread in such a trite fashion.
But I don't "trust" either of them and anyone would be a fool to do so. Thus the question of who I trust "more" is like asking me: Who do you trust more, Ted Bundy or John Wayne Gacy? That's not to say that there are not individuals in both government and business who I do trust. Just that the natures of business and government (two-party or not) are largely synonymous - to persuade, to proliferate cash flow, and to conform into inaccessible and efficient beasts. Not only do I not trust them, sometimes I despise them.
__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce |
03-08-2009, 03:32 PM | #60 (permalink) | |||
Junkie
Location: In the land of ice and snow.
|
Because if part of the purpose of a school of thought is to incorporate new information, then they typically do so. You're free to disagree with me. With respect to economics, clearly there is effort to learn from the past.
Quote:
Quote:
It is as if someone said "That rusty car is broken." and your response was to scoffingly point out that "Well, just because a car is rusty, that doesn't mean it's broken." And you were right. But in your rightness you also missed the point. You turned a discussion about a broken car into a discussion about the meaning of rustiness. And you also made a claim equivalent to "Gauging the condition of a car by the amount of rust on it is silly." You're trying to reduce guyy's perspective to a single adjective-- you shouldn't be surprised if you can't make sense of it. Quote:
|
|||
03-08-2009, 04:55 PM | #61 (permalink) |
Addict
Location: Cottage Grove, Wisconsin
|
The source is the horse's mouth. Shiny stuff is the One True Value. It's a magpie's understanding of the economy. If you look at his stuff, it's clear that he doesn't understand how the banking system or credit work, or why banks are crucial to a modern capitalist economy. It's laughable, even from a Freidmanite perspective.
|
03-08-2009, 06:38 PM | #62 (permalink) | ||||||||
Walking is Still Honest
Location: Seattle, WA
|
Quote:
Which is why, while I would understand 'often,', I haven't quite made the jump to 'most'. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
---------- Post added at 07:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:36 PM ---------- Quote:
Do you have anything to give me?
__________________
I wonder if we're stuck in Rome. |
||||||||
03-09-2009, 02:03 PM | #63 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
|
People who understand the problem faced by GM today know the seeds were sown during labor negotiations in the 1970's and 1980's. The management teams who negotiated those contracts are no longer in place. The impact of those contracts are being felt today and is the difference between GM being competitive and being on the threshold of failure. Just because you don't understand the issues does not mean those issues are not real.
__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
04-07-2009, 01:59 PM | #64 (permalink) |
Addict
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
|
I also cannot answer this question as I don't trust either one more than I have to. As others have pointed out there is very little difference between the two anymore when they work in such close concert with each other.
__________________
------------- You know something, I don't think the sun even... exists... in this place. 'Cause I've been up for hours, and hours, and hours, and the night never ends here. |
04-08-2009, 04:41 AM | #65 (permalink) |
You had me at hello
Location: DC/Coastal VA
|
I only trust King Bhumibol Adulyadej.
__________________
I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet |
04-13-2009, 10:24 AM | #67 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: NYC
|
The problem that I have with the question as phrased -- who do you trust more -- (should be "whom," BTW - not to be pedantic) -- is that it's missing a piece of information: trust to do what? trust with what? There are certain things govt is good at, others that businesses are good at. Would I trust govt to keep a secret? Heck no, the govt leaks like a sieve and the workers who have political axes to grind would shit all over a citizen in a minute if it helped them or their union or their preferred candidate (Joe the Plumber, anyone?). A business? Only if it was in the business's interest to do it, in which case they'd be much better than the govt. Provide security? I'll go with the govt and the armed forces; Blackwater's experience shows that private security isn't always as reliable as we'd like.
The point being that we shouldn't delude ourselves that businesses can act like govts and still do their jobs well (watch what a business does when it has no or negligible competition), nor that the govt can run a business worth a lick. The comparison doesn't make much sense. |
04-15-2009, 02:18 PM | #68 (permalink) |
immoral minority
Location: Back in Ohio
|
I think themain reason I asked this was it was when Oregon announce the GPS tracking for cars instead of a gas tax. Now, I think the gas tax is better and should be higher, but people were afraid of the government having access to GPS information of where you've been (not even real-time GPS info). I can see this as being an issue, but it isn't close to what my phone company can do. I carry around a cell phone that broadcasts my exact position in real time(through triangulation). Nobody thinks twice about giving that info to the cell phone companies.
And I've had plenty of debates over who I would rather have as an ISP. And neither are good. The local computer nerd group would be the ideal ISP, but they don't have the resources. The government can be good, if they aren't monitoring it and allowing anonymous access. But, the same can be said for a business, except that they will limit who can get on to paying costumers. I don't deal with any one of them and get it through open wifi ap's. And it's a tossup for managing natural resources, pollution, and progress. |
04-17-2009, 10:05 AM | #69 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: NYC
|
Well, sure, ASU, but a phone company can't toss you in jail or bring you up on charges based on the information it has about you. Sure, it could abuse that information in other ways, but any abuse the phone co could make of that info could also be made by some unscrupulous govt bureaucrat if s/he had the same info. The unique diff btw the govt and the phone co is that the govt has coercive power and the phone co doesn't. The phone co can only coerce you if it gets govt backup.
|
04-17-2009, 10:40 AM | #70 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
|
Here we go again! Barney Frank is an example of a man with a little knowledge thinking he understands a complex issue and is then going to "fix" things. He is definitely a person not to trust, meddling in "big business".
Quote:
If Frank has his way, remember you heard it here first, tax payers are going to get hammered with another bailout crisis in about 5 to 10 years.
__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
|
Tags |
big, business, government, trust |
|
|