Obama's celebrity - dangerous? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

inBOIL · 01-29-2009, 09:53 PM

The Last Psychiatrist: Wrong About Obama

Quote:

Wrong About Obama

The most dangerous case of buyer's remorse in history.

I hesitate to write this. Honi soit qui mal y pense. But I fear someone has to.

I.

That Obama would win wasn't a surprise. That people would feel a sense of history and, well, hope, was to be expected; indeed, that was the point of it all.

But instead of the typical, "good game, guys" and hand shakes all around, I watched in amazement as my country went completely insane, on international TV, for everyone to see.

I watched as the media dispensed with any pretense of impartiality. It was as if they were covering the Olympics, America vs. Russia, and the clock was ticking down 5...4...3...2... "Obama's going to win! Obama's going to win! We're about to make history!"

MSNBC's Keith Oberman plunged headfirst into sycophancy, cheering how great a day it was for African-Americans. "We did it!" Really?

Even CNBC reporters, who had all year made it clear they weren't voting for Obama, joined the other stations in blathering about a new age in history. You are familiar with the platitudes, I hardly need repeat them.

Victory celebreations are fine, but am I mistaken that 40% of the country did not vote for him? And that at least a sizeable minority of those people do not believe we are now at a new dawn in history? Did these people suddenly evaporate?

That a black man has been elected President is a testament to the power of the nation, yes, I get it. But there's a certain oppressive feeling about it all, as if that mere fact precludes any dissent; as if to feel that this is anything other than a cultural reawakening of America is an outright violation of human rights.

There is an almost complete sense of the moral rightness of the win, as if the 40% of the electorate that didn't vote for him are anyway thrilled with the outcome of the election. 60% win may be a landslide, but it's still an F. It's not something you tape to the refrigerator.

II.

"But so what, let them gloat a while, as long as he does the right thing..."

Let me be clear that there is more here than simply "our candidate won." This is the belief that everything is different now.

The problem is with two terms: "them" and "right things." Without taking a side, at least accept that there are a lot of "thems" and a lot of "right things"-- all of which have their Hopes for Change in Obama.

What is different form other presidencies is that a number of people expect a number of things-- and these things are often contradictory.

Millions of people are not going to be just disappointed, they are going to feel tricked.

A vote for Change-- what if nothing changes? What if the Bilderbergers and ex- Carter administration people bring nothing but More Of The Same AND Less Of Everything? Do you say, "well, I guess that didn't go as planned" or do you become so jaded about the political process that your anger turns generalized? Paranoid?

Remember, this wasn't John Kerry, the man chosen because he was supposedly more palatable than Howard Dean; this was everyone's first choice, this is exactly the guy they wanted, with completely rational expectations that he was going to at least attempt to deliver.

But-- sit down, think about this for a minute-- what happens if he fails? Not fails in his attempts, but fails to attempt the things everyone expects him to accomplish? What if he succeeds in doing the opposite of what you thought he would attempt?

How long before people move away from scapegoats, and attack the system that (they believe) uses them, tricks them, tricked everyone into accepting Barack Obama, figurehead, so the "powers that be" can go on with their plans?

Hating George Bush was a popular pastime, and often took the form, "if only he weren't President..." How long before we decide that it's the system that's the problem? Then what?

III.

This isn't a case of unrealistic expectations. These are expectations which deliberately ignore reality. The Economist, in its post election article "Great Expectations," actually wrote:

Mr Obama will not take office until January 20th, but he can use the next ten weeks well. A good start would be to announce that he will offer jobs to a few Republicans.
Really? Could the writers of one of the most important periodicals actually believe this is a possibility? There had to be deep back room deals just to get Clinton people on his team. Old guard Democrats follow him everywhere. Really, Republicans? But not just Republicans:

Mr Obama might even find a non-executive role for John McCain, with whom he agrees on many things...
This is slightly less probably than Obama appointing Daleks to his cabinet, but the crucial issue is whether The Economist understands that its Great Expectations for Obama are exactly the opposite of the great expectations of a lot of the people who voted for him?

People voted for Bush for a variety of reasons, but any two Bush supporters, while differeing in what they wanted him to do, did not have a different expectation of what Bush would try to do. When Bush said he was going to keep Guantanamo open, we expected him to try to keep Guantanamo open. He did not try to close Guantanamo-- and no one expected him to.

These aren't unrealistic expecations, they'er both perfectly realistic. What they are, however, is incompatible.

IV.

Don't listen to opinion polls that say 78% approve of Obama: the hatred on the Right is already seething. They'll not admit it, they'll avoid the topic altogether except amongst themselves, in hushed tones, always looking over their shoulder, cognizant that they are surrounded by enemies.

If they hated Obama, it wouldn't matter. They don't hate Obama.

The day after the election, Elizabeth Wurtzel wrote an op-ed inthe WSJ-- let me repeat that, the WSJ-- which began, "I must admit, I cried. I'm not perfectly sure why, but of course I was overjoyed."

Well, if she's not sure why she cried, it's going to be hard for half the country that didn't vote for him to know either. But I'll grant that the author of Prozac Nation may indeed have been so moved. "America itself," she writes, "which is a menagerie of mutts, has been a mightier nation for its diversity."

All fine sentiments which can be used to pad any college essay. The problem for her, for the WSJ, and for all of us, is that the sentence she wrote immediately preceding that one is this:

Most of the multiracial people I know seem more beautiful and talented than those of us boring folks who are just one dull thing.
When you write that in the WSJ, when you expect people to understand it, to agree with it-- when you ask people not simply to accept all races and cultures but to tacitly admit that yours is inferior, you are courting disaster.

They don't hate Obama, they hate Obama supporters.

V.

When a person heaps expectations and impulses on a person they don't really know well, in psychiatry it is called transference. When multiply diverse groups heap contradictory expectations and impulses on a person they don't know well, that's celebrity.

Obama's a celebrity, all right, I wonder if anyone has considered that this is not an entirely desirable role for a President. America has a love-hate relationship with all their other celebrities, why should this one end differently?

"But the celebrity's an accident, he didn't deliberately set out to become one."

I'm not so sure. In this culture being a celebrity counts for a lot, as long as you are a celebrity we are willing to tolerate all sorts of nonsense, from nightvision sex tapes to Scientology to adopting 19 kids. We may even ultimately hate you, but if you say, "buy this," we do-- and on credit, of course. Celebrity and consumption are two sides of the same coin, and neither should be the purview of a President. Even if he didn't ask for celebrity, by accepting it he is following a dangerous narrative, one that allows the inclusion of this sentence in Entertainment Weekly, delivered with no irony whatsoever:

...but Obama was speaking to voters in a visual language they totally got: the celebrity-saturated shorthand of 21st-century consumerism.

Right. Here's $10. Keep the Change.

Left of left magazine Mother Jones attempted to make a similar point in "The Audacity of Hype?" the idea being that his hype is overwhelming (and detrimental.) But other progressives would not tolerate such questioning from their own ranks, despite the fact that both sides really were arguing that there was more to Obama than just hype. (1)

I'll admit that hype doesn't automatically mean there's no substance at all; it means that there is so much commotion it's hard to see what that substance is.

But it's hard to make the case that Obama isn't hype when his own supporters-- I think I can safely assume Entertainment Weekly counts among them-- try their best to make him into hype. This is a distraction; the result is that you don't know who he really is, and you are inevitably surprised when you find out.

VI.

I can see that the celebrity is a type of celebration, but there are consequences: it drives the 40% that didn't vote for him completely bananas. I don't mean "I hate the monkey fascist George Bush" bananas, either. People will disagree with me on this, but they're wrong-- this hype is more divisive than nearly anything George Bush has done.

Much of what Bush did conveyed the perception that he didn't care about your opinon, he answered only to himself and rubbed your nose in it. That made a lot of people hate him. The problem with these Obama covers and articles is that it is a whole half a nation saying, "in your face!" which makes people hate them.

Remember the flap about The New Yorker cover that showed Barack and Michelle in Taliban garb, doing the fist bump? That was irony, and it still made some liberals angry. But when you make this cover, with no irony at all

it makes people hate the people who voted for Obama. And if you do not believe this, then you are the one they hate.

VI.

The other problem with celebrity is it works only because it is lots of things to lots of people; it's rare to find a celebrity who is something all the time; those static celebrities we tire of quickly. Celebrity requires constant reinvention of oneself-- that's why most celebrities are actors or musicians. And yet, a constant refrain from exasperated celebrities: "but that's not really me!" Well, what did you expect when you posed for Entertainment Weekly?

It is still astonishing that a country with out history of slavery could elect a biracial man who identifies himself as African-American.
Unlike Ms. Wurtzel, I'm not going to pretend to know what Obama is or is not; but I think it's axiomatic that how you choose to identify yourself has little to do with it. Things are, or things are not.

But not for so many who want him to be so many things. Unfortuantely for them, eventually he'll have to be himself, and whatever that is, people will be surprised by it. And won't like it. Honeymoon's over: here's me pooping.

I earlier wondered how an Obama Presidency would alter race relations in the country, perhaps away from race as the dividing chracteristic and towards class. That was an outrageously optimistic prediction made because I bought into the hype. What happens as unreaslistic expectations are dashed?

Here's a prediction for you: within one year, people will be saying Obama isn't really black.

VII.

The hyping of the Obamyth has consequences for the next election as well. Republicans are likely to come out to vote in droves-- think Newt Gingrich in 1994. Liberals, if disappointed, probably won't vote Republican-- they're simply not going to vote at all. That means a Republican win with a greater margin.

If we're lucky, it'll play out calmly. But the divisiveness of the Celebration of The Obamyth is not to be underestimated, it is making a lot of people very angry, a lot of people who you hear almost nothing about at all-- it's as if they don't exist. But they're there, the new disenfranchised, even if Time Magazine tells you they aren't. They won't take up arms, surely, but neither do bees, and it's still probably best not to taunt them.

Meanwhile, the contradictory expectations of so many of his supporters will inevitably result in some groups feeling duped. Not disappointed. Duped. At minimum they pull away from the political process, at maximum they riot.

That seems unlikely to you? America's too big to fail? Spain had to put down some violent protests just last week. France is "a social bomb waiting to explode." And Greece was on fire a month ago. Are these third world puppet states?

It would be a mistake to think these riots happened because their leaders didn't get them what they wanted. That's only what made them angry. They became violent because they believed the system-- not Sarkozy or Zapatero or George W. Bush, but the system-- was not listening to them. If the already disenfranchised whom Obama collected under his umbrella later feel spurned or tricked-- look out.

Obama reportedly hopes to fashion himself after Abraham Lincoln. It would be worthwhile to emphasize that Lincoln's great accomplishment was not freeing the slaves or the Homestead Act but doing whatever it took to keep the republic together, at any cost-- even if it compromised some of his own particular beliefs.

Please, Mr. Obama, now that you've won the election, take my advice. If you get invited to the Oscars, politely decline. And if Vanity Fair wants to put you on the cover, the correct answer is no.

---------------------------

1. Ahh, but isn't Mother Jones really playing the meta card, sending a Manchurian Candidtate propaganda to Rush Limbaugh and his ilk: "we, the leftie communists at MoJo, aren't really happy with this fake progressive, he's not really that progressive..." making him more palatable to the right?--- Who knows? But doesn't that just support the contention that no one even cares what Obama is, just what he can be identified as?)

I don't agree with the author's assertion that conservatives will be driven to an enhanced distaste for Obama supporters, although I think he's spot on in predicting a 1994-type response in the polls in a few years. What intrigues (and worries) me most is this idea of intense distaste for the system as a result of anything but a stellar job by Obama. What happens when a large number of disenfranchised people, to whom Obama was (to some extent) a savior, feel they've been let down or duped? Perhaps rioting is an unlikely possibility, but there's potential here for a lot of people to give up on voting and politics for a long time.

blade02 · 01-29-2009, 11:32 PM

The next few years were going to suck no matter who got elected.

Presidents can't fix the economy. Only the people can fix their economy. Nothing short of a world war has ever stopped a large depression. Obama has it made, for now. The outlook is so bleak, him and the rest of the democrats can use "OMG!!! THE ECOMOMY IS SO BAD!!!!" to get anything passed. The tactic is exactly the same as Bush's "OMG!!! THE TERRORISTS ARE GOING TO GET US!!!" except the liberal media will paint the tactic as caring about the working class instead of being paranoid. If things simply don't get as bad as the media wants to scare you into believing, then "Obama must have saved us all". If things get worse, then they will still be able to pull of using Bush as an excuse for any evil in the world.

I'm still not quite sure what will happen once the magic wears off. The article is correct in pointing out that the longer the media plays up his victory, the more hate it generates towards Obama supporters. Coupled with the fact, that for now, anyone who attempts to take out their frustration on him is automactically branded a rascist, this hate runs very deep.

The only predictions I can make are that:
1. The two parties will not be united. Any bi-partisan efforts that take place will simply be fake smiles covering up the wedge that is driven deeper and deeper.
2. The 2012 elections will be extremely nasty. The will be no punches held. Both sides will do anything and everything it takes to destroy the other.

ratbastid · 01-30-2009, 04:51 AM

The right has an opportunity RIGHT NOW to get on the train before it leaves the station. It's that or get consigned to the dustbin. There's room for them on the train--the man WANTS a plurality of voices and visions. But clinging to partisanship and division (like, say, voting down party lines against the Economic Stimulus package yesterday) will result in their being utterly irrelevant in the future.

That's the spirit being spoken from in this piece. Bitter, negative, sore loser. Not interested in getting on the train. So okay. Their call. Their loss. I'm not going to cry for them.

Cynthetiq · 01-30-2009, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratbastid

The right has an opportunity RIGHT NOW to get on the train before it leaves the station. It's that or get consigned to the dustbin. There's room for them on the train--the man WANTS a plurality of voices and visions. But clinging to partisanship and division (like, say, voting down party lines against the Economic Stimulus package yesterday) will result in their being utterly irrelevant in the future.

That's the spirit being spoken from in this piece. Bitter, negative, sore loser. Not interested in getting on the train. So okay. Their call. Their loss. I'm not going to cry for them.

While I agree with the "jump on the train" sentiment, I don't buy into the hype, ever. It is why I firmly believe in my sig, the same thing applies to performance, you either perform, or you don't.

I'm hopeful that the man will perform, he now has the onus to walk the talk, and accept responsibility for whatever the results are, good or bad.

dc_dux · 01-30-2009, 05:06 AM

IMO, the opinion expressed in the OP article ignores nearly all the polling data out there.

The issue is far greater than Obama.

The American voters have repudiated the conservatism of the Republican party.

And the Republican party has dug in its heels and insists on responding to its base rather than expanding its appeal. The more it does so, the more it refuses to be part of a bi-partisan solution to the many problems we face and the more the Independent swing voters will continue turn away.

It wont last forever, but it will last beyond Obama, regardless of his success or failure.
-----Added 30/1/2009 at 08 : 14 : 02-----
If I were a Republican, this would be a wake-up all:

Quote:

The map shows party strength by state for 2008, ranging from states that can be considered solidly Democratic (a Democratic advantage in party identification of 10 percentage points or more) to those that can be considered solidly Republican (a Republican advantage in party identification of 10 percentage points or more). States in which the partisan advantage is less than 5 points in either direction are considered "competitive."

The political landscape of the United States has clearly shifted in the Democratic direction, and in most states, a greater proportion of state residents identified as Democrats or said they leaned to the Democratic Party in 2008 than identified as Republicans or leaned Republican.

As recently as 2002, a majority of states were Republican in orientation. By 2005, movement in the Democratic direction was becoming apparent, and this continued in 2006. That dramatic turnaround is clearly an outgrowth of Americans' dissatisfaction with the way the Republicans (in particular, President George W. Bush) governed the country.

With Democratic support at the national level the highest in more than two decades and growing each of the last five years, Republican prospects for significant gains in power in the near term do not appear great. But the recent data do show that party support can change rather dramatically in a relatively short period of time.

State of the States: Political Party Affiliation

To pin their hopes for the future on the "cult of personality" or "celebrity status" and a subsequent repudiation of Obama is a pipe dream if the Republican party believes that they can regain the trust and support of the voters by clinging to their rigid failed policy positions and opposing one man, rather than demonstrating a willingness to build consensus and work together in a bi-partisan manner.

Derwood · 01-30-2009, 06:48 AM

I believe Hilary Clinton would have defeated McCain by a similar margin that Obama did. People were simply tired of the GOP, plain and simple.

Also, if you're going to write an article (and, presumably, get paid for it), at least spell people's names right (Keith Oberman....really?)

Halx · 01-31-2009, 03:30 PM

My opinion on the article: too much being said before there is anything to say. Sure, be pensive, but to whip up 7 points out of thin air to knock down an opportunity when all we have is hope... that's just being too cool for school.

Seaver · 01-31-2009, 04:27 PM

Quote:

The right has an opportunity RIGHT NOW to get on the train before it leaves the station. It's that or get consigned to the dustbin. There's room for them on the train--the man WANTS a plurality of voices and visions. But clinging to partisanship and division (like, say, voting down party lines against the Economic Stimulus package yesterday) will result in their being utterly irrelevant in the future.

Right... vote the way we say or it's partisanship. Many of us opposed the bill because it's full of useless pork. Could you please tell me what STD education has to do with the faltering banks and the credit hold?

I'm all about bi-partisanship, but there's give and take. Pelosi is running the Senate with stricter rules than even the hardest Republicans, not even allowing time to review a bill before you vote on it. If you don't agree with whats in it, instead of debating like is intended, you either vote for it or you're a heel-digging partisan.

If there is truly going to be a unification, why is Obama not putting conservatives in his cabinet?

I'm not saying everything is going off the edge of the cliff, but it's another issue of standards only apply when one doesn't have the power to be held to them.

dc_dux · 01-31-2009, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaver

Pelosi is running the Senate with stricter rules than even the hardest Republicans, not even allowing time to review a bill before you vote on it. If you don't agree with whats in it, instead of debating like is intended, you either vote for it or you're a heel-digging partisan.

Thats quite a (mis)interpretation of the House (not Senate) rules! In fact, what the Pelosi rules do is limit the process for sending a bill back to committee or limiting the number of amendments on the floor -- to prevent those tactics being used to stall a final vote on a bill. Think about it...if the minority party (the Republicans) could keep proposing an unlimited number of amendments on the floor, no bill they dont like would ever be passed.

How soon some forget the Hastert rule, where under the former Speaker Dennis Hastert, no bill could be considered in the House w/o having the support of the "majority of the majority (i.e. the majority of Republicans)....which effectively eliminated any possibility of bi-partisan bills that had both Democratic and Republican support, but not the support of a majority of Republicans.

One of Pelosi's first acts was to end the Hastert Rule. If she hadnt, Bush would never have gotten Iraq war funding after 07 because the "majority of the majority" never supported it. Those funding bills passed in 07 and 08 with a majority of Republicans and a minority of Democrats.

So please, STOP with the nonsense of Pelosi having "stricter rules than even the hardest Republican."

The economic recovery bill had something like 200 proposed amendments in the House. Pelosi and the Republican majority leader agreed to limit the number of amendments brought to the floor for a vote to around 15....a mix of both Democratic and Republican amendments.

Bi-partisanship does not mean an equal vote. It means having a voice.

Obama has given the House Republicans far more opportunities for participation in crafting the bill, including many of their tax proposals, than Bush ever did with Democrats on any major piece of legislation. The Senate Republicans will now have their chance.

But in the end, lets not forget who the voters put in the WH and gave a larger majority to in Congress.

Rekna · 02-01-2009, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaver

If there is truly going to be a unification, why is Obama not putting conservatives in his cabinet?

He has 2 of them in there now and it looks like a 3rd might be added soon:

Robert Gates, Ray LaHood, and Judd Gregg.

ratbastid · 02-01-2009, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rekna

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaver

If there is truly going to be a unification, why is Obama not putting conservatives in his cabinet?

He has 2 of them in there now and it looks like a 3rd might be added soon:

Robert Gates, Ray LaHood, and Judd Gregg.

YouTube - The Price is Right losing horn

Tully Mars · 02-01-2009, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaver

If there is truly going to be a unification, why is Obama not putting conservatives in his cabinet?

Because he won.

Plus he's reaching out far more then the GOP ever did. Gates is still in, Gregg's on deck it appears.

Remind me- What was the number of liberals in Bush's inter circle?

Opps! Edit- forgot about LaHood. As other's have pointed out that makes three.

So he won, but hopefully the days of "My way or the highway" are over. I think the GOP is risking forcing that policy back in by refusing to join in with even one vote in the house. They managed to get items added to the bill that really the no Dem would have supported then failed to even provide a token yes vote. I think that type of stuff is likely to lead to shelving any of the items they wanted added. I mean why keep their stuff in if they're not going to support it in the end anyway? Then we can all go back to an all one sided federal government. Which in my opinion didn't go so well over the past 6-8 years.

KirStang · 02-01-2009, 10:16 AM

Maryland - County results - County results- msnbc.com

So I thought this was very interesting. If you look at it, the populous counties (Montgomery county--huge DC suburb, Baltimore County, Baltimore City, etc.) all voted Obama. But the rural areas voted McCain.

The McCain 'landmass' if you will is far larger than the Obama landmass, but again, #'s count for more.

robot_parade · 02-01-2009, 12:19 PM

You know, I think I'm pretty sure I've heard more people complain and wring their hands about 'Obamamania' than I've actually seen people expressing what I would consider Obamamania. Most people who support him that I've talked to, or even heard about in the media, have pretty realistic expectations. Sure, some people think he'll be a truly great president. Some people on the right thought W would be a 'great' president - hell, some people on the right think he *was* a great president, and we just haven't noticed yet. Obama is obviously more popular, and more people expect good things from him. But to me, that doesn't equal this meme about everyone having unrealistic, messianic expectations of the big O (hey, the Big O - add that to the 'nicknames for Obama' thread). He's almost as popular as Kennedy was at this point in his administration. Which is pretty damn good, considering the power of the right-wing hate machine. But it isn't messianic. It's just a combination of relief to be rid of W, and Hope that Obama will turn out to be a good president. So far, I'm pretty happy with how he's turning out. I'd like to see the results of some of these machinations over the stimulus package, and then see how I feel about his political skill.

Personally, I think he'll at least be a good president, and possibly a great one. I don't agree with all the positions he's taken, but I do agree with most of them. I'm Hopeful. Optimistic. But I think I'm still realistic. I don't expect him to fix all of our problems. And we have some major problems. But I think he's going in the right direction.

djtestudo · 02-01-2009, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KirStang

Maryland - County results - County results- msnbc.com

So I thought this was very interesting. If you look at it, the populous counties (Montgomery county--huge DC suburb, Baltimore County, Baltimore City, etc.) all voted Obama. But the rural areas voted McCain.

The McCain 'landmass' if you will is far larger than the Obama landmass, but again, #'s count for more.

You could have just asked me and I could have told you how everything would split here, give or take a county

01-31-2009, 03:30 PM	#7 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	My opinion on the article: too much being said before there is anything to say. Sure, be pensive, but to whip up 7 points out of thin air to knock down an opportunity when all we have is hope... that's just being too cool for school. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

01-29-2009, 11:32 PM	#2 (permalink)
blade02 Insane	The next few years were going to suck no matter who got elected. Presidents can't fix the economy. Only the people can fix their economy. Nothing short of a world war has ever stopped a large depression. Obama has it made, for now. The outlook is so bleak, him and the rest of the democrats can use "OMG!!! THE ECOMOMY IS SO BAD!!!!" to get anything passed. The tactic is exactly the same as Bush's "OMG!!! THE TERRORISTS ARE GOING TO GET US!!!" except the liberal media will paint the tactic as caring about the working class instead of being paranoid. If things simply don't get as bad as the media wants to scare you into believing, then "Obama must have saved us all". If things get worse, then they will still be able to pull of using Bush as an excuse for any evil in the world. I'm still not quite sure what will happen once the magic wears off. The article is correct in pointing out that the longer the media plays up his victory, the more hate it generates towards Obama supporters. Coupled with the fact, that for now, anyone who attempts to take out their frustration on him is automactically branded a rascist, this hate runs very deep. The only predictions I can make are that: 1. The two parties will not be united. Any bi-partisan efforts that take place will simply be fake smiles covering up the wedge that is driven deeper and deeper. 2. The 2012 elections will be extremely nasty. The will be no punches held. Both sides will do anything and everything it takes to destroy the other.

01-30-2009, 04:51 AM	#3 (permalink)
ratbastid Darth Papa Location: Yonder	The right has an opportunity RIGHT NOW to get on the train before it leaves the station. It's that or get consigned to the dustbin. There's room for them on the train--the man WANTS a plurality of voices and visions. But clinging to partisanship and division (like, say, voting down party lines against the Economic Stimulus package yesterday) will result in their being utterly irrelevant in the future. That's the spirit being spoken from in this piece. Bitter, negative, sore loser. Not interested in getting on the train. So okay. Their call. Their loss. I'm not going to cry for them.

01-30-2009, 06:48 AM	#6 (permalink)
Derwood Who You Crappin? Location: Everywhere and Nowhere	I believe Hilary Clinton would have defeated McCain by a similar margin that Obama did. People were simply tired of the GOP, plain and simple. Also, if you're going to write an article (and, presumably, get paid for it), at least spell people's names right (Keith Oberman....really?)

02-01-2009, 10:16 AM	#13 (permalink)
KirStang Future Bureaucrat	Maryland - County results - County results- msnbc.com So I thought this was very interesting. If you look at it, the populous counties (Montgomery county--huge DC suburb, Baltimore County, Baltimore City, etc.) all voted Obama. But the rural areas voted McCain. The McCain 'landmass' if you will is far larger than the Obama landmass, but again, #'s count for more.

02-01-2009, 12:19 PM	#14 (permalink)
robot_parade Junkie Location: San Antonio, TX	You know, I think I'm pretty sure I've heard more people complain and wring their hands about 'Obamamania' than I've actually seen people expressing what I would consider Obamamania. Most people who support him that I've talked to, or even heard about in the media, have pretty realistic expectations. Sure, some people think he'll be a truly great president. Some people on the right thought W would be a 'great' president - hell, some people on the right think he was a great president, and we just haven't noticed yet. Obama is obviously more popular, and more people expect good things from him. But to me, that doesn't equal this meme about everyone having unrealistic, messianic expectations of the big O (hey, the Big O - add that to the 'nicknames for Obama' thread). He's almost as popular as Kennedy was at this point in his administration. Which is pretty damn good, considering the power of the right-wing hate machine. But it isn't messianic. It's just a combination of relief to be rid of W, and Hope that Obama will turn out to be a good president. So far, I'm pretty happy with how he's turning out. I'd like to see the results of some of these machinations over the stimulus package, and then see how I feel about his political skill. Personally, I think he'll at least be a good president, and possibly a great one. I don't agree with all the positions he's taken, but I do agree with most of them. I'm Hopeful. Optimistic. But I think I'm still realistic. I don't expect him to fix all of our problems. And we have some major problems. But I think he's going in the right direction.